3598 réponses à ce sujet

[rossler]

Probably not at this point. They're too busy working on Andromeda. ME3's development stopped with Citadel DLC. No future plans are being considered, AFAIK.

[Natureguy85]

Well they listened to the ones who wanted more closure, but not to the ones who wanted a new ending. They didn't agree about the plot holes or inconsistencies though.

 

They made the endings this way, because that is the story they wanted to tell. They don't really need to explain why. The customer doesn't need to know that.

 

They did care about the plot holes; they took direct steps to address one of the biggest ones. That's why we have the evac scene. It was very nice if you look at it in a vacuum, but it made no sense where it is.

 

This may have been the story they wanted to tell, but it was awful.

[themikefest]

The evacuation scene was put in to explain  how both squadmates get on the Normandy. How about an extended cut for the extended cut to explain how Steve gets back on the Normandy?

[rossler]

Why don't you ask for a scene to explain how Shepard got from the Prothean Beacon to the Normandy's med bay in the first game? If they didn't explain that, it must be a logical inconsistency, or a plot hole.

 

Seriously though, unexplained events aren't plot holes. How did character X get from some eastern country back to the US in the next scene? He took a plane. Fill in the blanks here. 

[themikefest]

Why don't you ask for a scene to explain how Shepard got from the Prothean Beacon to the Normandy's med bay in the first game? If they didn't explain that, it must be a logical inconsistency, or a plot hole.

here you go
https://youtu.be/k96S0StuElo?t=21m15s
 

Seriously though, unexplained events aren't plot holes. How did character X get from some eastern country back to the US in the next scene? He took a plane. Fill in the blanks here.

Never said it was a plot hole, did I? I only asked for them to explain how Steve got back on the Normandy? If they can explain the 2 squadmates getting back on the Normandy, why can't they explain Steve?

What explanation do you have on how Steve got back on the ship?

 

Depending on what eastern country someone left from, he/she could take a ship instead of a plane, right? Why a ship? He/she wanted to take the long way home.  Is that filling in the blanks there?

[Joseph Warrick]

To be honest I don't even play the ending these days. When Anderson dies, I load a save and jump directly into Citadel. The ending of Citadel is the real ending of the trilogy. It's been a good ride. The best.

 

Thousands of pages about the ending were written in 2012 and 2013. At this point, when someone points out how genius the ending is I just feel like you be you mate, you like it, that's great.

[Morty Smith]

Since no one ending is canon, headcanon.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rossler]

The first part of my post was sarcastic.

 

They don't need to explain every little detail though in order for it to make sense. If they do, well... that's not the game's problem.

[themikefest]

What's your explanation for how Steve got back on the Normandy? Fill in the blanks here

[rossler]

Normandy picked him up off screen, in the original ending. Same goes for your squadmates. There was 20 minutes or so between the time you went to the beam until the Crucible fires. So between that time, they got picked up. You didn't see it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[themikefest]

Normandy picked him up off screen, in the original ending. Same goes for your squadmates. There was 20 minutes or so between the time you went to the beam until the Crucible fires. So between that time, they got picked up. You didn't see it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Going by your comment, why have the what-the-crap evac scene at all?

 

The other thing is, where was Steve during his holobye with Shepard at the forward operating base?

[rossler]

They made that evac scene because you guys asked why your squadmates were running away. So they filled in the blanks.

 

Steve was somewhere in London. It doesn't say exactly where.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Normandy picked him up off screen, in the original ending. Same goes for your squadmates. There was 20 minutes or so between the time you went to the beam until the Crucible fires. So between that time, they got picked up. You didn't see it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

True. Pushing the limits of plausibility but fine (although this really is a stretch). The major issues with plot holes isn't that implausibility in a story is inherently bad, but that they disrupt the flow of the narrative. If the player is questioning basic issues about logic and continuity they probably aren't enjoying the story unfolding.

 

Which gets to the real problem of character motivation. Not so much the how, but the why. At this point in the story there's been about 3 speeches about not retreating, so why is everyone retreating? I get that Coates says to regroup but this is yet another lapse (did Anderson ignore Coates' order?). With Harbinger gone, and Shepard and apparently Anderson making it through the beam why would everyone leave the ground battle when the Conduit is apparently now open? Especially the squadmates with Shepard, aren't they really close to the beam (they don't look particularly injured so they could probably walk in there themselves)? If someone managed to pick them up, couldn't that person also just go to the beam themselves?

 

What general would divert air power to pick up a few people? Why would our band of intrepid heroes not fight until the end (that's definitely within character for a few of them). Would repeated rule breaker and emotional Joker really fly around to pick everyone up just to leave? The EC already shows how ridiculous this all looks.

 

Again, none of this fits with what we know of the characters. It barely fits a timeline. Just because we can imagine what a series of events doesn't mean that the story gets a pass when it fails to present important information. Especially when that information would explain why characters are acting out of character.

[themikefest]

They made that evac scene because you guys asked why your squadmates were running away. So they filled in the blanks.

 I never asked about the squadmates whereabouts. I already had an idea on how they ended up back on the Normandy. So your "you guys" thing does not apply to me.

 

Steve was somewhere in London. It doesn't say exactly where.

So he was carrying a portable qec with him when Shepard rang?

[rossler]

So he was carrying a portable qec with him when Shepard rang?

 

It's possible.

 

@ImaginaryMatter.

 

You're over-analyzing everything.

[themikefest]

It's possible.

I guess that applies to all the ME2 squadmates as well. 

 

That whole holobye thing is funny. The qec yellow pages guy able to ring up those characters with no problem.

[Dantriges]

Especially with so helpful contact data like "Jack." The whole thing is a bit silly, but I understand why they put it there and didn´t go into such abig detail on how QEC guy was able to contact them. OTOH some lampshading like "EDI gave us the contact data" wouldn´t be such an effort. Perhaps it´s not really QEC and just using a full body image from a regular cam. Don´t remember if everyone is somewhere close to the battle.

[von uber]

@ImaginaryMatter.

You're over-analyzing everything.

No they are not. It's entirely reasonable things to question based on what the game shows you.

[wright1978]

Normandy picked him up off screen, in the original ending. Same goes for your squadmates. There was 20 minutes or so between the time you went to the beam until the Crucible fires. So between that time, they got picked up. You didn't see it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

Yeah The normandy spent the whole game acting as a taxi for squaddies too yellow to fight the reapers and who preferred to play some poker in the lounge whilst tonnes of their allies died in all out last ditch fight vs the reapers. That Vega dude at the start of the game is super annoyed to be fleeing the fight whilst at the end of the game he's probably happy doing some pullups in the normandy instead. Character progression that is.

[Dantriges]

Hey, every time every Squaddie leaves, when you are on a mission, the ship gets taken over or boarded. It´s totally justified for the majority of your squadmates to stay on board to repel boarders.

 

Just kidding.

[Daemul]

Honestly the whole evac scene made no sense, and how the rest of your squad who were left at the FOB got on the Normandy isn't explained either. From some of the cut content I've seen I've always gotten the expression that your squad was meant to die on Earth but then for some reason Bioware changed their mind, or ran out of time to properly implement it so your squad was just poofed back up on the Normandy and randomly showed up on Planet of Eden. 

 

Honestly I'd like to know how the ending would have been like if Bioware had been given an extra 6 months, I think it would be fundamentally the same, but things like squadmates poofing up to the Normandy wouldn't have happened, Bioware would have probably given them emotional deaths, something would I would have been happy with since it would have made sense, because them randomly showing up on the Normand made no sense. 

 

In the case of Steve his death scenario should have been kept as the only outcome, because his survival brings up many questions which probably have no logical answers. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

 

@ImaginaryMatter.

 

You're over-analyzing everything.

 

What?!? I don't see how this is over analyzing. The game presents a series of inexplicit and seemingly implausible events, it seems like a normal human response to wonder about those events. Squadmates appearing on the Normandy leads to questions about how they got there, questions the story up to that point has no answers for. Everything after seems like a natural result. Some of the Anderson stuff overlaps with how Anderson got onto the Crucible... which probably just serves to underscore how utterly broken the whole ending is on the "sense-making" scale.

[von uber]

Or why the beam wasn't just switched off when they saw people were trying to get to it.
Or who built the decision chamber.
Or how TIM makes shep shoot Anderson.
Or why Hackett doesn't radio shep in the decision chamber or vice versa.

And so on.

[rossler]

Or why the beam wasn't just switched off when they saw people were trying to get to it.
Or who built the decision chamber.
Or how TIM makes shep shoot Anderson.
Or why Hackett doesn't radio shep in the decision chamber or vice versa.

And so on.

 

Most of those are left unexplained. Except for the one with Shepard shooting Anderson. Leviathan answered this.

[Dantriges]

Pseudo Dominate.