3578 réponses à ce sujet

[Dantriges]

woah.  My POV on the ending is completely different from yours.  I see the ending as something IT related - although not IT specific so think of it as mindblowing in so many ways.  HOwever the way they presented it to the masses is so vague and out of place with anything previously within the narrative, that it is not fulfilling to the masses, just an elite group who actually saw the ending as it was (which I'm glad I called it from day one)

 

Seems Angol Fear is an initiate of a different mystery cult revealing the secret truths of the ME universe which only a few, the elite, are allowed to perceive.

[Natureguy85]

I doubt Saren heard the reapers say, "lets kill everyone, even all the Turians" and responded positively. Anyone would have tried to prevent it or at least run.

His speech about saving civilizations was on Virmire, not the Citadel. Before he was given extensive implanting.

 

Sure, but was his initial, gut reaction to cave and serve the Reapers in hopes of being spared rather than to fight? Even on Virmire he was Indoctrinated, though he was hoping he wasn't.

[CptFalconPunch]

Sure, but was his initial, gut reaction to cave and serve the Reapers in hopes of being spared rather than to fight? Even on Virmire he was Indoctrinated, though he was hoping he wasn't.

 

No, because indoctrination has stages, according to the game. That is what we know, so in fact, his gut reaction and rationale would have been his motivation, which was then slowly used against him to misguide him. Bam. Sloooowly lure him over to his side. Like the purple asari on Feros says.

 

And it's not that hard to see his point as well. The game makes you realize how fricken powerful the reapers are in general, and an offer of surrender just to live doesn't sound tooooo bad. And I could definently see someone taking it as the easy, if only way out. So his solution fits the critiria.

[Supreme Leech]

Yeah really good ending. I liked how they introduced a brand new character in the last five minutes of the game. Definitely loved the ending. It was fantastic.

[dorktainian]

Yeah really good ending. I liked how they introduced a brand new character in the last five minutes of the game. Definitely loved the ending. It was fantastic.

 

 

ah.... starjar?  If you listen closely you can actually hear that it is indeed Shepard who is the Catalyst.

[gothpunkboy89]

Sure, but was his initial, gut reaction to cave and serve the Reapers in hopes of being spared rather than to fight? Even on Virmire he was Indoctrinated, though he was hoping he wasn't.

 

 

He was indoctrinated but also had his mind free. He saw the Reapers as beings that keep what is useful and destroy what isn't useful. Sovergin let him keep this delusional thought up because it allows Saren to serve It's purpose.

[voteDC]

Looking back I think a part of what I didn't like about the endings, and I'll include Refuse, is that in every one the Reapers achieve a victory.

Refuse oddly enough because they beat us.

Control. They are still out there 'protecting' the Galaxy but now have a new person in charge.

Synthesis. Victory achieved because no more organic/synthetic conflict.

Even with Destroy they achieve a victory of sorts, as to beat them we must commit genocide on all synthetic life. We become them.

[oddball_bg]

Looking back I think a part of what I didn't like about the endings, and I'll include Refuse, is that in every one the Reapers achieve a victory.

Refuse oddly enough because they beat us.

Control. They are still out there 'protecting' the Galaxy but now have a new person in charge.

Synthesis. Victory achieved because no more organic/synthetic conflict.

Even with Destroy they achieve a victory of sorts, as to beat them we must commit genocide on all synthetic life. We become them.

They don't "beat" us!Noone beats anyone!Something(things)totally different happens.

[themikefest]

there is no genocide when destroy is chosen. The reapers are destroyed. That's good enough for me

[Natureguy85]

ah.... starjar?  If you listen closely you can actually hear that it is indeed Shepard who is the Catalyst.

 

Yes, they overlap the Shepard voices, but the clear, main voice is a child.

 

 

He was indoctrinated but also had his mind free. He saw the Reapers as beings that keep what is useful and destroy what isn't useful. Sovergin let him keep this delusional thought up because it allows Saren to serve It's purpose.

 

He had his mind somewhat free.  The idea that Reapers preserve their useful Organic tools was implanted by Sovereign in the first place to get Saren to help. Where else would Saren get this idea?

Looking back I think a part of what I didn't like about the endings, and I'll include Refuse, is that in every one the Reapers achieve a victory.

Refuse oddly enough because they beat us.

Control. They are still out there 'protecting' the Galaxy but now have a new person in charge.

Synthesis. Victory achieved because no more organic/synthetic conflict.

Even with Destroy they achieve a victory of sorts, as to beat them we must commit genocide on all synthetic life. We become them.

 

I agree other than that we become the Reapers. With Destroy, Synthetics are sacrificed to save organics. We're not telling the Geth that we are actually preserving them.

 

 

 

there is no genocide when destroy is chosen. The reapers are destroyed. That's good enough for me

 

You genocide the Reapers

Not that you should feel bad about it.

[Abedsbrother]

Even with Destroy they achieve a victory of sorts, as to beat them we must commit genocide on all synthetic life. We become them.

 

there is no genocide when destroy is chosen. The reapers are destroyed. That's good enough for me

Got the conversation with EDI yesterday where she decides to modify her core programming ("she would risk non-functionality for Jeff"). Just made me wonder what EDI's and Legion's comprehension of the concept of sacrifice imply for the Destroy ending. If there is any implication at all. Is it  to placate ("see, they would have sacrificed themselves anyway if called upon, so it's okay to choose Destroy!")? I'm probably reaching here.

[CptFalconPunch]

Where else would Saren get this idea?

From the base on Virmire where he had scientists examining indoctrination.

[Dantriges]

You mean he got his idea from his indoctrinated scientists?

[CptFalconPunch]

You mean he got his idea from his indoctrinated scientists?

Noone gets indoctrinated right away. When they do they replace them with other non-indoctrinated. Repeat until you have results from that short period of non-indoctrinated work.

[Dantriges]

Rana Thanoptis said she wasn´t indoctrinated and well she blew herself up in ME 3 in service of the Reapers. So I would say that it´s not unlikely they overestimated the duration of their short period of non-indoctrination. Maybe it was unrelated but it casts quite a big shadow of doubt that the system on Virmire actually worked as intended.

[Natureguy85]

From the base on Virmire where he had scientists examining indoctrination.

 

I guess we don't know how old it is, but I figured this was after Saren started following Sovereign.

[CptFalconPunch]

Rana Thanoptis said she wasn´t indoctrinated and well she blew herself up in ME 3 in service of the Reapers. So I would say that it´s not unlikely they overestimated the duration of their short period of non-indoctrination. Maybe it was unrelated but it casts quite a big shadow of doubt that the system on Virmire actually worked as intended.

Rana never said ''I'm not indoctrinated'' she actually was afraid she was becoming.
 
The treatment of her character in ME2 is completely whatever and in 3 she explodes like a time bomb? Indoctrination is permanent according to lore, so unless she made contact with more reaper stuff she couldn't have been serving the reapers.
Unless she lost her sanity because of the damage that was done to her and went mental. In either case, nothing logical here to support your argument it seems.
 
 
 

I guess we don't know how old it is, but I figured this was after Saren started following Sovereign.

We generally dont know **** about Saren-Sovereign relationship. Unless there is a book or comic I missed and definently never gonna read.

[Dantriges]

Rana never said ''I'm not indoctrinated'' she actually was afraid she was becoming.
 
The treatment of her character in ME2 is completely whatever and in 3 she explodes like a time bomb? Indoctrination is permanent according to lore, so unless she made contact with more reaper stuff she couldn't have been serving the reapers.
Unless she lost her sanity because of the damage that was done to her and went mental. In either case, nothing logical here to support your argument it seems.

 

She says she wants to get out before it happens to her.

I don´t say that it´s not possible that she simply went bonkers or got it later. OTOH it raises doubt if the whole setup on Virmire wasn´t already compromised.

 

Well the ANN report of what happened with her is this one. Seems she came in touch with Reaper tech later. Could be that she got it there, but Virmire can´t be ruled out, Sovereign was too cool with them studying it.

 

Thessia - Asari scientist Rana Thanoptis has died in custody, allegedly committing suicide after she was arrested for the murder of multiple asari military officials.

Prior to her death, investigators said Thanoptis spoke of voices in her head, which they believed to be indicative of her indoctrination. The voices foretold the ascension of the asari--and told Thanoptis that anyone fighting the Reapers "needed to die."

Thanoptis worked on a top-secret project for former Spectre Saren Arterius several years ago, where she likely became indoctrinated. She received a pardon from the asari government in exchange for providing research assistance on Reaper technology.

Thanoptis was believed responsible for planting a makeshift explosive device that detonated at a research center, killing five visiting asari military officials along with four civilians. The attack seriously wounded a dozen more and caused significant damage to the facility.

Investigators say they are not seeking any more suspects in the case.

 

 

[Natureguy85]

We generally dont know **** about Saren-Sovereign relationship. Unless there is a book or comic I missed and definently never gonna read.

 

True. That was just the impression I got from the games. Secondary media is irrelevant.

[oddball_bg]

"I wanna destroy the reapers,I wanna destroy the reapers" everyone repeats like a broken record even when they are presented with FAR more complicated choices and reasons.It's getting kind of...I don't know,dumb!

[dorktainian]

"I wanna destroy the reapers,I wanna destroy the reapers" everyone repeats like a broken record even when they are presented with FAR more complicated choices and reasons.It's getting kind of...I don't know,dumb!

 

why don't you want to?  That is the question you should be asking yourself.  When you enter the conduit, what are your intentions?

 

I mean for me, someone who is prepared to defend the galaxy wide genetic mutation of everything without their consent is far worse than someone wanting to kill the reapers.

[Natureguy85]

"I wanna destroy the reapers,I wanna destroy the reapers" everyone repeats like a broken record even when they are presented with FAR more complicated choices and reasons.It's getting kind of...I don't know,dumb!

 

Those complicated choices and reasons are terrible. There is no reason to change course.

[Iakus]

"I wanna destroy the reapers,I wanna destroy the reapers" everyone repeats like a broken record even when they are presented with FAR more complicated choices and reasons.It's getting kind of...I don't know,dumb!

Given the only other options are "I wanna let the Reapers rule the galaxy!" or "I wanna turn everyone into a Reaper!" or "TROLOL Rocks fall, everyone dies!" I could do without those complications, thankyouverymuch.

[Master Warder Z_]

Given the only other options are "I wanna let the Reapers rule the galaxy!" or "I wanna turn everyone into a Reaper!" or "TROLOL Rocks fall, everyone dies!" I could do without those complications, thankyouverymuch.

 

 

The ME3 endings in a nutshell.

[gothpunkboy89]

 

 

He had his mind somewhat free.  The idea that Reapers preserve their useful Organic tools was implanted by Sovereign in the first place to get Saren to help. Where else would Saren get this idea?

 

 

Because that is how Saren thinks. If you go into a chat with Anderson in ME1 after the council meeting he will go into detail about his time with Saren. He is the kind of guy that only keeps things that can be useful around. If it isn't useful he discards it. He also makes the assumption because it is a machine they only care about what is useful and what isn't useful. Keeping useful things and discarding none useful items.  IE a new graphics card comes out so they discard the old one to use the new one.