3591 réponses à ce sujet

[Natureguy85]

Because that is how Saren thinks. If you go into a chat with Anderson in ME1 after the council meeting he will go into detail about his time with Saren. He is the kind of guy that only keeps things that can be useful around. If it isn't useful he discards it. He also makes the assumption because it is a machine they only care about what is useful and what isn't useful. Keeping useful things and discarding none useful items.  IE a new graphics card comes out so they discard the old one to use the new one.

 

Which he would have to square with what he saw from the beacon visions and knowing the Protheans were wiped out.  I don't recall anything Anderson says having to do with keeping what is useful. It's more about Saren liking violence and being willing to do anything.

[Iakus]

Which he would have to square with what he saw from the beacon visions and knowing the Protheans were wiped out.  I don't recall anything Anderson says having to do with keeping what is useful. It's more about Saren liking violence and being willing to do anything.

 

I have two rules I follow.  The first is: never kill someone without a reason, and the second is: you can always find a reason to kill someone.

Saren Arterius-"Mass Effect: Revelation"

[Natureguy85]

I have two rules I follow.  The first is: never kill someone without a reason, and the second is: you can always find a reason to kill someone.

Saren Arterius-"Mass Effect: Revelation"

 

That's pretty cool, but you know my thoughts on the novels and secondary media in general.

[rossler]

"I wanna destroy the reapers,I wanna destroy the reapers" everyone repeats like a broken record even when they are presented with FAR more complicated choices and reasons.It's getting kind of...I don't know,dumb!

 

Yep. I agree.

[voteDC]

They don't "beat" us!Noone beats anyone!Something(things)totally different happens.

In refuse this cycle is beaten, we lose. Hell the only reason the Reapers are beaten in the next cycle is because of Liara's actions. Independent of Shepard.

 

there is no genocide when destroy is chosen. The reapers are destroyed. That's good enough for me

We wipe out the Reaper race and every other synthetic species. That fits genocide for me.

 

I agree other than that we become the Reapers. With Destroy, Synthetics are sacrificed to save organics. We're not telling the Geth that we are actually preserving them.

We accept that the ends justify the means, we will sacrifice anyone and anything we deem necessary in order to achieve our goals.

Sounds like the Reapers mentality to me.

[themikefest]

We wipe out the Reaper race and every other synthetic species. That fits genocide for me.

It doesn't fit genocide for me. Besides, the geth are usually destroyed on Rannoch in my playthroughs

[Natureguy85]

We accept that the ends justify the means, we will sacrifice anyone and anything we deem necessary in order to achieve our goals.

Sounds like the Reapers mentality to me.

 

Yeah I guess if you make everything as broad, general, and generic as possible. However, for the Reapers, the sacrifice is the goal.

[gothpunkboy89]

Which he would have to square with what he saw from the beacon visions and knowing the Protheans were wiped out.  I don't recall anything Anderson says having to do with keeping what is useful. It's more about Saren liking violence and being willing to do anything.

 

And he only cares about what is useful and what isn't useful to serve is purpose. If that means killing a few hundred civilians to stop a bad guy he is willing to do so. He discards them because they are useless compared to the greater good that would be achieved by arresting/killing his target.  Compared to Anderson who would try to do both or save the civilians as first priority.  Hence his disgust of Saren's actions.

[Natureguy85]

And he only cares about what is useful and what isn't useful to serve is purpose. If that means killing a few hundred civilians to stop a bad guy he is willing to do so. He discards them because they are useless compared to the greater good that would be achieved by arresting/killing his target.  Compared to Anderson who would try to do both or save the civilians as first priority.  Hence his disgust of Saren's actions.

 

Wrong. He didn't toss away or destroy what wasn't useful. The destruction was useful to him and he simply didn't care, good or bad, about the collateral damage. And when we ask if something is useful, it begs the question: useful to do what? What happens when that use ends?

[gothpunkboy89]

Wrong. He didn't toss away or destroy what wasn't useful. The destruction was useful to him and he simply didn't care, good or bad, about the collateral damage. And when we ask if something is useful, it begs the question: useful to do what? What happens when that use ends?

 

So how wast this any different then what I said?

 

He would blow up a building no matter who or how many was in it to kill a bandit ring leader because those civilians serve no purpose to him. Thus he discards their life to achieve what he wants. The killing of the bandit leader.

 

You appear to be stating exactly what I did. But you objected out of habit because you must always be against what I say.

[Natureguy85]

So how wast this any different then what I said?

 

He would blow up a building no matter who or how many was in it to kill a bandit ring leader because those civilians serve no purpose to him. Thus he discards their life to achieve what he wants. The killing of the bandit leader.

 

You appear to be stating exactly what I did. But you objected out of habit because you must always be against what I say.

 

It's your poor reading skills. Saren was willing to sacrifice others he didn't care about in order to achieve a different objective. For the Reapers, the killing is  the objective.

[Iakus]

It's your poor reading skills. Saren was willing to sacrifice others he didn't care about in order to achieve a different objective. For the Reapers, the killing is  the objective.

"We help them ascend"  

[Natureguy85]

"We help them ascend"  

 

Ha, yeah, by killing them, but you're right that I forgot the "stuffing into a robot body" part. Only if you're good enough though!

 

This story blows.

[gothpunkboy89]

It's your poor reading skills. Saren was willing to sacrifice others he didn't care about in order to achieve a different objective. For the Reapers, the killing is  the objective.

 

And the point of him allying with the Reapers in his own mind at least is that if he is useful and other people prove useful they would be spared. Thus he is willing to sacrifice others he doesn't care about to active the objective of being spared by the Reapers for being useful.

 

This is in his mind justified because he sees Sovereign acting like a machine that only cares about things being useful. Hence my graphic's card example. An example and line of thought in Saren's case that is backed up by EDI several times on smaller scales. Altering programs or upgrading them to fit her needs. Altering her thought patterns as she develops. Even taking over Dr. Eve's body when she feels her actions in the Normandy are not enough to help Shepard. With the exception of the Normandy she when she alters or upgrades her programming she abandons the older versions of it in favor of the newer ones. Because they are useful and older ones are not.

[Natureguy85]

And the point of him allying with the Reapers in his own mind at least is that if he is useful and other people prove useful they would be spared. Thus he is willing to sacrifice others he doesn't care about to active the objective of being spared by the Reapers for being useful.

 

This is in his mind justified because he sees Sovereign acting like a machine that only cares about things being useful. Hence my graphic's card example. An example and line of thought in Saren's case that is backed up by EDI several times on smaller scales. Altering programs or upgrading them to fit her needs. Altering her thought patterns as she develops. Even taking over Dr. Eve's body when she feels her actions in the Normandy are not enough to help Shepard. With the exception of the Normandy she when she alters or upgrades her programming she abandons the older versions of it in favor of the newer ones. Because they are useful and older ones are not.

 

Sure, there he had a selfish desire to save himself. Then he makes excuses to Shepard. The entire reason Saren is such a great and interesting character is that he's aware and afraid of Indoctrination. He's trying to convince himself just as much as he is Shepard.

 

Upgrading equipment isn't a very good analogy, but sticking with it, do you disintegrate your graphics card and all other units of that model?

[gothpunkboy89]

Sure, there he had a selfish desire to save himself. Then he makes excuses to Shepard. The entire reason Saren is such a great and interesting character is that he's aware and afraid of Indoctrination. He's trying to convince himself just as much as he is Shepard.

 

Upgrading equipment isn't a very good analogy, but sticking with it, do you disintegrate your graphics card and all other units of that model?

 

I resell it or for money or recycle it though a company that will take it apart and reclaim the parts that made it up to be used again. Much like how the Reapers recycle organics and reclaim the parts that made them up to be used again in Reaper form.

 

So yea there is some over lap with that logic.

[Natureguy85]

I resell it or for money or recycle it though a company that will take it apart and reclaim the parts that made it up to be used again. Much like how the Reapers recycle organics and reclaim the parts that made them up to be used again in Reaper form.

 

So yea there is some over lap with that logic.

 

Only if that card meets certain specifications. For those that are chosen, that analogy does work better. However, most are torched. So how are the next group of organics upgrades then?

[rossler]

Ha, yeah, by killing them, but you're right that I forgot the "stuffing into a robot body" part. Only if you're good enough though!

 

This story blows.

 

Reapers don't kill organics, they harvest them.

[Monica21]

Reapers don't kill organics, they harvest them.

Since the humans necessarily have to be killed to get the human slushie, they actually do kill organics.

[voteDC]

Reapers don't kill organics, they harvest them.

I'm fairly sure that getting turned into a slushie counts as being killed.

Beaten to it =(

Modifié par voteDC, 17 mars 2016 - 07:24 .

[themikefest]

Reapers don't kill organics, they harvest them.

I'm sure the people seeing other people being killed will believe that.

[angol fear]

Reapers don't kill organics, they harvest them.

Glad to see that someone played Mass Effect on this forum.

[KaiserShep]

Reapers don't kill organics, they harvest them.

 

 

Harvesting an organism results in its death.

[Monica21]

Glad to see that someone played Mass Effect on this forum.

[Vanilka]

Oh, for gods' sake, so the organics are, what, alive after the Reapers are done with them? Do those piles of bodies on the Citadel at the end of ME3 look not dead to you? Do the piles of bodies in the Collector base look not dead? Do the impaled people on Eden Prime in ME1 not die? Do our companions not die from getting hit by Harbinger's beam if our EMS is low? Does the war council at the beginning of ME3 not die? Do the forces defending the Citadel in ME1 not die? Yeah, the Reapers have never killed anyone. Glad you guys are so optimistic about getting turned into flesh syrup.