3590 réponses à ce sujet

[Dantriges]

Even IF the reapers couldn't do everything the harvesters can (which is definitely not supported by the game), or maybe they lacked numbers to be everywhere at once (also not supported by the game, also, Harvesters are not spaceflight capable, they need to be transported by reapers!):
Reapers do carry Oculi, which are AI or VI -controlled space superiority fighters, capable of damaging frigates! As seen in the ME3 Prologue and 'the fleets arrive' these are also comparable to Trident fighters, meaning they are superior to shuttles or Harvesters in every way. So the Reapers do not need harvesters for that task.
Reapers (as well as their troop transports) can launch drop-pots full of husks and other ground troops from orbit, they don't need harvesters for that either.

 
Well Reapers stomp around after planetfall for some reason (dunno, perhaps easier on energy consumption than floating and shedding mass), seems that Harvesters are a bit more maneuverable. Using a Reaper for pretty mundane troop shuttling sounds a bit like overkill. The Oculi have no troop compartments and the troop transports are huge. Dropping pods is nice but gets a bit more complicated when shuttling your troops around after the initial drop. I can see some advantage in some kind of troop transport-air support vehicle which isn´t 200 meters long in the tiniest, up to 1 km in the biggest version like Reaper transports. My initial thought actually was "use your troop transports instead of harvesters," but then I checked if they have some in small sizes, which they don´t.

But still, if the Reapers saw a need for that, they should have built some smal ships instead and not gone dragon hunting.

[JPVNG]

Yesyes, I know, IT is true, Destroy is the only choice and everyone who thinks otherwise is stupid and deluded. Now go away, please. We don't have to accept IT in order to contest the OP's claim.

WEll leldra...i think that too. In human or paragon terms it was the only acceptable choice for Shepard. OfCourse that doesn't mean other opinions are deluded.

[Natureguy85]

 
Well Reapers stomp around after planetfall for some reason (dunno, perhaps easier on energy consumption than floating and shedding mass), seems that Harvesters are a bit more maneuverable. Using a Reaper for pretty mundane troop shuttling sounds a bit like overkill.

 

You're using the term "overkill" in regards to a group whose goal is to kill everyone and destroy everything?

[Dantriges]

Yeah like it´s total overkill to send a whole Reaper there, hunting highly mobile resistance troops, it got some stomping to do here. Anyways doesn´t seem to be the best choice anyways, every Reaper we actually saw* on a planet, landed pretty fast.

 

 

*special exception for Sovereign who did some incredible turn somewhere, which shattered glass in Saren´s lair somehow. No idea how, because Sovie never showed up.

[MrFob]

Maybe Harvesters were an accident. here is what happened:

Two heretic geth put a human onto a dragons tooth to transform him into a husk. Just at the moment when the dragons tooth shoots up in the air an unmutated harvester is flying low over the scene. The dragons tooth impales the harvester. The geth are looking up with an expression of both sadness and surprise, this was not planned and they don't hurt harmless animals. However, when they see that the dragons tooth is mutating the harvester into a cool techno-dragon, the iris around their flashlights widens. They turn towards each other, nod and make confirming stuttering sounds, meaning "I won't tell the boss how we got that thing if you don't".

[Natureguy85]

Yeah like it´s total overkill to send a whole Reaper there, hunting highly mobile resistance troops, it got some stomping to do here. Anyways doesn´t seem to be the best choice anyways, every Reaper we actually saw* on a planet, landed pretty fast.

 

 

*special exception for Sovereign who did some incredible turn somewhere, which shattered glass in Saren´s lair somehow. No idea how, because Sovie never showed up.

 

Yeah, landed to blast buildings, ships, and people running in the streets.

 

Maybe Harvesters were an accident. here is what happened:

Two heretic geth put a human onto a dragons tooth to transform him into a husk. Just at the moment when the dragons tooth shoots up in the air an unmutated harvester is flying low over the scene. The dragons tooth impales the harvester. The geth are looking up with an expression of both sadness and surprise, this was not planned and they don't hurt harmless animals. However, when they see that the dragons tooth is mutating the harvester into a cool techno-dragon, the iris around their flashlights widens. They turn towards each other, nod and make confirming stuttering sounds, meaning "I won't tell the boss how we got that thing if you don't".

 

I immediately thought of Geralt killing the dragon in The Witcher 2. It's actually a sad, touching scene from the usually stoic badass.

[Dantriges]

Yeah, landed to blast buildings, ships, and people running in the streets.

 

Yeah, yeah. Can we agree on that there is probably some use for having a chopper like assault craft, with a troop compartment in your arsenal instead of having to send a walking skyscraper/a horde of zombies on foot/gathering your troops then lift off to smash a drop pod in the area after every puny human or small gathering of humans.

[Natureguy85]

Yeah, yeah. Can we agree on that there is probably some use for having a chopper like assault craft, with a troop compartment in your arsenal instead of having to send a walking skyscraper/a horde of zombies on foot/gathering your troops then lift off to smash a drop pod in the area after every puny human or small gathering of humans.

 

That depends on your objective and how many skyscrapers you have. Since the objective is total annihilation and the number of Reapers is functionally infinite, I would say "not really."

[themikefest]

Because it calls itself the Catalyst. I understand your point, but saying "the Catalyst" and meaning Shepard just leads to confusion.

What confuses me is the word catalyst

 

Up until Shepard speaks with Vendetta on Cronos, the Citadel has been called, Citadel. By everyone and everything that Shepard has encountered. Even the VI on Ilos before talking with Vigil calls it, Citadel. Even Javik calls it Citadel. But on Cronos Vendetta says, In your cycle its known as the Citadel. I wonder if the group that was building the crucible gave the Citadel the codename catalyst?  I would be curious what the Inusannon called the Citadel. When Shepard encounters the thing calling itself the catalyst, was it coincidence that Vendetta and the group building the cruicible, called the Citadel catalyst. I doubt it. This is just guesswork on my part.

 

Leviathan calls it the intelligence.  I would be curious if Leviathan would know what the catalyst is? I know if I was Shepard I would've asked that question.

[gothpunkboy89]

The point is that they don't need Harvesters because they are Reapers and can do everything Harvesters do and more.

 

Not at the scale of what needs to be done. Even the world's best pizza maker can only make so many pizzas by himself. Hiring more pizza makers even if they aren't even close to as skilled as the expert pizza maker is would still allow him to double if not triple the amount of pizzas that could be made in a day.

[Natureguy85]

Not at the scale of what needs to be done. Even the world's best pizza maker can only make so many pizzas by himself. Hiring more pizza makers even if they aren't even close to as skilled as the expert pizza maker is would still allow him to double if not triple the amount of pizzas that could be made in a day.

 

"We are legion." There are as many Reapers as the writer wants there to be. They also have transport ships. Why not make smaller, faster ones if they need them? They have lots of time on their hands. That way they have them in every cycle, rather than being lucky to find a suitable being in this particular cycle.

 

In other words, why would the Pizza maker go hire lesser pizza makers when he can clone himself?

[gothpunkboy89]

"We are legion." There are as many Reapers as the writer wants there to be. They also have transport ships. Why not make smaller, faster ones if they need them? They have lots of time on their hands. That way they have them in every cycle, rather than being lucky to find a suitable being in this particular cycle.

 

In other words, why would the Pizza maker go hire lesser pizza makers when he can clone himself?

 

Because it can allow the lesser pizza makers to work themselves to death if need be. Or suicide bomb rival pizza makers without effecting his ability to work.

 

Reapers are large and powerful creations. But they are limited in what they can do thanks to their size. So they create their armies from the species of each harvest to act as their eyes, ears and hands to do things they would struggle with. LIke catching thousands of small ships as they try and transport people out of the war zone or off planet. Finding and dragging out people hiding in bunkers that would other wise go unseen and be unreachable by the Reapers due to their size.

[Natureguy85]

Because it can allow the lesser pizza makers to work themselves to death if need be. Or suicide bomb rival pizza makers without effecting his ability to work.

 

Reapers are large and powerful creations. But they are limited in what they can do thanks to their size. So they create their armies from the species of each harvest to act as their eyes, ears and hands to do things they would struggle with. LIke catching thousands of small ships as they try and transport people out of the war zone or off planet. Finding and dragging out people hiding in bunkers that would other wise go unseen and be unreachable by the Reapers due to their size.

 

You are terrible at analogies. You mentioned the pizza maker hiring pizza makers to make more pizzas. So they are doing the same thing. If you want to bomb your competition, you don't hire a pizza maker; you hire a bomb maker or arsonist. The lesser pizza maker worked to death is still worse at making pizzas than the pro. So making more of himself is still better for making the most and best pizzas.

 

Your argument about Reapers size makes sense for sending ground troops into a bunker, but Harvester can't do that either. The Reapers have no problem knocking down buildings. They also have no problem shooting lots of little ships. The game shows them doing it at least twice. And that still doesn't answer why they don't already have ships capable of doing that if they themselves can't do it. Making ground troops out of the dead makes sense for horror effect. But it's not really the same for some animal most people have never seen the real version of.

[gothpunkboy89]

You are terrible at analogies. You mentioned the pizza maker hiring pizza makers to make more pizzas. So they are doing the same thing. If you want to bomb your competition, you don't hire a pizza maker; you hire a bomb maker or arsonist. The lesser pizza maker worked to death is still worse at making pizzas than the pro. So making more of himself is still better for making the most and best pizzas.

 

Your argument about Reapers size makes sense for sending ground troops into a bunker, but Harvester can't do that either. The Reapers have no problem knocking down buildings. They also have no problem shooting lots of little ships. The game shows them doing it at least twice. And that still doesn't answer why they don't already have ships capable of doing that if they themselves can't do it. Making ground troops out of the dead makes sense for horror effect. But it's not really the same for some animal most people have never seen the real version of.

 

No actually my analogies make sense. I think you begin to take them to literally at a certain point. In this case make pizza equates to harvest organic life. They hire more lesser pizza makers (creation of husk, marauders, etc) to create more pizzas doubling if not tripling what they can make (speeds up the harvest of organic life). If needed they can suicide bomb rival pizza places (send wave after wave of expendable husks at organic strong holds to wear down and break them) without slowing them down. (Reapers continue to convert captured organics)

 

Reapers are limited in numbers. Planets are massive in size. the number of planets that hare in inhabited are in the thousands. It would be logistically impossible for them to take care of ground, air and space conflict at the same time. If they did to that it would leave planets open to be escaped to. And as long as they got away before the initial attack it would make it easier for them to flee from them. Ground troops takes care of the ground. The Harvesters handle the air and the Reapers take care of space. Splitting the responsibility for each area allows the Reapers to spread out more creating a larger net. As well as making it harder to flee from them.

 

You don't need to see something to be terrified of it once it has been Reperfied. Honestly the Reaper version is 10 times more scary to see.

[Natureguy85]

No actually my analogies make sense. I think you begin to take them to literally at a certain point. In this case make pizza equates to harvest organic life. They hire more lesser pizza makers (creation of husk, marauders, etc) to create more pizzas doubling if not tripling what they can make (speeds up the harvest of organic life). If needed they can suicide bomb rival pizza places (send wave after wave of expendable husks at organic strong holds to wear down and break them) without slowing them down. (Reapers continue to convert captured organics)

 

Reapers are limited in numbers. Planets are massive in size. the number of planets that hare in inhabited are in the thousands. It would be logistically impossible for them to take care of ground, air and space conflict at the same time. If they did to that it would leave planets open to be escaped to. And as long as they got away before the initial attack it would make it easier for them to flee from them. Ground troops takes care of the ground. The Harvesters handle the air and the Reapers take care of space. Splitting the responsibility for each area allows the Reapers to spread out more creating a larger net. As well as making it harder to flee from them.

 

You don't need to see something to be terrified of it once it has been Reperfied. Honestly the Reaper version is 10 times more scary to see.

 

I'm sure in your deluded mind they make perfect sense. Yes, more shooty things let you kill faster. But why not build ships for that purpose so you always have them, as they do other ships, rather than hope you find something suitable each cycle? What's the rush, by the way? Why do the Reapers have to harvest fast? Do they have somewhere to be? Vigil said it took centuries to kill off the Protheans.

 

There are as many Reapers as the writer wants there to be. They have no problem swarming planets. They have combat air craft. They have drop ships. The point is that this is a move of convenience, not necessity, which harms the idea that the Reapers are trying to preserve life. They are there to kill things. We've known that since Sovereign. Harbinger and the Catalyst are full of crap.

 

The Harvester is only scary as an implement of war. It does not carry the psychological horror of being made from your own species or those of aliens you've met and interacted with.

[themikefest]

Now, now. Harbinger may be full of it, but my femshep likes the guy talking smack to her

[gothpunkboy89]

I'm sure in your deluded mind they make perfect sense. Yes, more shooty things let you kill faster. But why not build ships for that purpose so you always have them, as they do other ships, rather than hope you find something suitable each cycle? What's the rush, by the way? Why do the Reapers have to harvest fast? Do they have somewhere to be? Vigil said it took centuries to kill off the Protheans.

 

There are as many Reapers as the writer wants there to be. They have no problem swarming planets. They have combat air craft. They have drop ships. The point is that this is a move of convenience, not necessity, which harms the idea that the Reapers are trying to preserve life. They are there to kill things. We've known that since Sovereign. Harbinger and the Catalyst are full of crap.

 

The Harvester is only scary as an implement of war. It does not carry the psychological horror of being made from your own species or those of aliens you've met and interacted with.

 

Why create your own ships when you can re purpose your enemies into your weapons? Which is basically 3/4th of US strategy in the Middle East. Though it seems to work out much better for the Reapers then US.

 

It took so long to harvest the Protheans because of how wide spread the empire was. Liara makes an off hand comment about that in ME3.  That we aren't as wide spread as they were and that within only few hundred years (like 5 years for an Asari) she could see the end of the galaxy as we know it.

 

No the Reapers have a finite number how ever that number is still a very large amount. It still boils down to logistics. They can do everything on their own. But they can speed it up by creating extra troops from the success of the harvested species.

 

Think about if if you were required to move 40 large stone slabs. You could lift them up and move them yourself without a problem. Or you could create a dolly to put them on so you can move multiple slabs at once. Speeding up the process to get it done faster.

[Dantriges]

Because you have them at the start of the war and don´t have to hunt for a big enough flying species that can transport stuff and is numerous enough to warrant conversion? In any semi sane* ecology flyers, this large would need a lot of food, so they wouldn´t gather in packs..

I wonder how they actually caught them. Oculi with tranquilizer weapons, Reapers with giant nets?

 

So if you want some sinister looking chopper equivalent, build one from scratch, slap one some tentacley looking landing gear and glowing "eyes." A lot easier than catching dragons alive, if you actually find some.

 

*let´s not talk about sane where flying and being as huge as a dragon probably exclude each other. Dunno about low G but ah well low G flyers on any other world...

[Natureguy85]

Why create your own ships when you can re purpose your enemies into your weapons? Which is basically 3/4th of US strategy in the Middle East. Though it seems to work out much better for the Reapers then US.

 

It took so long to harvest the Protheans because of how wide spread the empire was. Liara makes an off hand comment about that in ME3.  That we aren't as wide spread as they were and that within only few hundred years (like 5 years for an Asari) she could see the end of the galaxy as we know it.

 

No the Reapers have a finite number how ever that number is still a very large amount. It still boils down to logistics. They can do everything on their own. But they can speed it up by creating extra troops from the success of the harvested species.

 

Think about if if you were required to move 40 large stone slabs. You could lift them up and move them yourself without a problem. Or you could create a dolly to put them on so you can move multiple slabs at once. Speeding up the process to get it done faster.

 

Why put in the time and work to make new stuff every invasion, assuming you find something suitable, when you can prepare ahead of time and have that thing for every invasion?

 

This just in: A few hundred years = centuries.

 

Ok, so how many Reapers are there? The Reapers are not literally infinite but they are functionally infinite. This means that the finite number is whatever the author says it is. Remember, their numbers will darken the sky of every world. Also, once again, what's the rush? You've made the point before that time is nothing to the Reapers.

 

I don't know. If I had literally nothing else to do I might do that task the slow way to keep myself busy. Or if I really enjoyed pulling slabs.

[themikefest]

Here's a post explaining how many reapers there might be at the start of this cycle

[Monica21]

Which is basically 3/4th of US strategy in the Middle East.

Your incredible ignorance about anything in the real world tells me that you should probably stop using real-world examples as conveniences to promote your video game world conclusions. My advice for you is just to focus on what the game gives you, because you're a failure at understanding just about everything else, and no one here has the time to explain it to you.

[von uber]

Leviathan calls it the intelligence.  I would be curious if Leviathan would know what the catalyst is? I know if I was Shepard I would've asked that question.

 

Big problem with that is that of Shep ask the obvious question and Leviathan tells them it's the Citadel, given you can do Leviathan pretty early on in the game it kind of renders the rest of the game pointless, as Shep should be focussing all hrr efforts on the Citdael from that point.

[themikefest]

Big problem with that is that of Shep ask the obvious question and Leviathan tells them it's the Citadel, given you can do Leviathan pretty early on in the game it kind of renders the rest of the game pointless, as Shep should be focussing all hrr efforts on the Citdael from that point.

BioWare could've had Leviathan play dumb and not know what the catalyst is since it refers to its creation as Intelligence.

[Arcian]

The Reapers are not literally infinite but they are functionally infinite. This means that the finite number is whatever the author says it is. Remember, their numbers will darken the sky of every world.

Assuming the 1 Cycle = 1 Reaper thing is true, and I personally doubt it is, that would mean there are 20,000 Reapers. That's not nearly enough to darken the sky of every world.

[Natureguy85]

Assuming the 1 Cycle = 1 Reaper thing is true, and I personally doubt it is, that would mean there are 20,000 Reapers. That's not nearly enough to darken the sky of every world.

 

Well, I always assumed Sovereign was doing a little hyperbole but 20, 000 is a lot of Reapers given their power. I suppose he didn't say "darken the sky of every world at once."

At any rate, was that "One Reaper per cycle" rule stated anywhere or was that a fan idea based on only Humans being chosen this time? Harbinger gives a bunch of reasons why the other races weren't good enough so I figured they'd make as many Reapers as they found suitable species.