3590 réponses à ce sujet

[themikefest]

Leviathan says each cycle ends with the birth of a reaper.

[gothpunkboy89]

Your incredible ignorance about anything in the real world tells me that you should probably stop using real-world examples as conveniences to promote your video game world conclusions. My advice for you is just to focus on what the game gives you, because you're a failure at understanding just about everything else, and no one here has the time to explain it to you.

 

So we don't arm different sides in conflict. Which ever one that might agree to fight in our interest at the current time? I suggest you look up how groups like the Taliban and ISIS were formed.

 

US funded, supplied and trained the basis of the Taliban/Al Qaeda group during the Afgan-Soviet Invasion. Post war they would eventually unite and form the group that no one but them actually likes.  And depending on what they were fighting against the US would help or hinder them depending on what the goals were.

 

ISIS exists much the same way. When Saddam was over thrown his secular set up was removed and replaced with a primarily Shiite administration. This caused problems for the Sunni people. Because they are just like Protestant and Catholics were back in the day of Bloody Mary. Two group that dislike each other severely. The US policy favored the Shiites heavily over the Sunni.  The Shiite used their position of power to further other Shiites while blocking any Sunni's and even stripping many of their wealth and positions. Mean while US was arming both because we figured both would work towards the goal we wanted.

 

http://www.globalres...r-group/5402881

[themikefest]

What does any of the above have to with Mass Effect and the ending?

[Natureguy85]

Leviathan says each cycle ends with the birth of a reaper.

 

Yeah that does make it sound like only one. However it's at the end of the series, optional, and released after the ending was, so I don't really like putting much weight on it.

 

 

 

So we don't arm different sides in conflict. Which ever one that might agree to fight in our interest at the current time? I suggest you look up how groups like the Taliban and ISIS were formed.

 

That's not analogous to the Reapers though. That's arming one side of an existing conflict. The Reapers are the ones starting the conflict.

 

 

 

US funded, supplied and trained the basis of the Taliban/Al Qaeda group during the Afgan-Soviet Invasion. Post war they would eventually unite and form the group that no one but them actually likes.  And depending on what they were fighting against the US would help or hinder them depending on what the goals were.

 

ISIS exists much the same way. When Saddam was over thrown his secular set up was removed and replaced with a primarily Shiite administration. This caused problems for the Sunni people. Because they are just like Protestant and Catholics were back in the day of Bloody Mary. Two group that dislike each other severely. The US policy favored the Shiites heavily over the Sunni.  The Shiite used their position of power to further other Shiites while blocking any Sunni's and even stripping many of their wealth and positions. Mean while US was arming both because we figured both would work towards the goal we wanted.

 

You're partially right. The US did indeed support and arm the fighters that would become those groups but they were two separate groups, not the same thing. ISIS was formed from Al Qaeda. They rose up because of the power vacuum created by the sudden US withdrawal from the country.

[Iakus]

What does any of the above have to with Mass Effect and the ending?

Because reasons!!!!

 

[von uber]

If there are 20,000 sovereign class ships, Mass Effect 3 should have lasted 3 minutes.
In fact it should have anyway, shep should have been stranded on earth once the reapers took the citadel, or the intelligence just did it.
Which does beg the whole point of me1, but let's not go down that hole.

[themikefest]

If there are 20,000 sovereign class ships,

Plus destroyers, troop transposrt ships and processing ships
 

Mass Effect 3 should have lasted 3 minutes.

I will say 15 minutes. 12 minutes for the credits and 3 minutes, like you say, for the game itself
 

[Monica21]

http://www.globalres...r-group/5402881

While you're partially right, yet another thing you can do to improve your credibility is not link to Global Research. It's too heavily partisan to be believed by rational individuals.

And nothing you stated has any in-game equivalent to Mass Effect. Unless you can point to me where we armed the Reapers or even Cerberus.

[Iakus]

 

I will say 15 minutes. 12 minutes for the credits and 3 minutes, like you say, for the game itself
 

Which means Shepard would be dead before the first dialogue option 

[MrFob]

I really don't mind the reapers not attacking the citadel at the beginning of the game. The council races would have seen them coming (you can only arrive through certain mass relay routes, can't just fly there through the serpent nebula). They would have closed the arms and for all we know even the reapers wouldn't have been able to penetrate that defense.

The reapers could have besieged the Citadel but since surrender by the organics would have meant death anyway, the occupants might starve rather then open the arms again. In this worst case scenario for the reapers, they would not be able to take control over the Citadel ever again.

On the other hand, the home worlds and colonies of the major races are not as easily defensible and waging war there offers opportunities to indoctrinate people and eventually gain access to the Citadel though indoctrinated agents. For all we know this is exactly what they did.

[Natureguy85]

I really don't mind the reapers not attacking the citadel at the beginning of the game. The council races would have seen them coming (you can only arrive through certain mass relay routes, can't just fly there through the serpent nebula). They would have closed the arms and for all we know even the reapers wouldn't have been able to penetrate that defense.

The reapers could have besieged the Citadel but since surrender by the organics would have meant death anyway, the occupants might starve rather then open the arms again. In this worst case scenario for the reapers, they would not be able to take control over the Citadel ever again.

On the other hand, the home worlds and colonies of the major races are not as easily defensible and waging war there offers opportunities to indoctrinate people and eventually gain access to the Citadel though indoctrinated agents. For all we know this is exactly what they did.

 

What? The Reapers fly in from dark space. Why do you think they couldn't just fly to the Citadel? As to being locked out if the Citadel closed; maybe.

[Monica21]

What? The Reapers fly in from dark space. Why do you think they couldn't just fly to the Citadel? As to being locked out if the Citadel closed; maybe.

 

 

Do they need to fly straight to the Citadel though? Plan B was the Alpha Relay, so I guess Plan C is just taking over world by world, and I'm not sure, in the long run, it would matter all that much. The only thing I don't understand is why they didn't close off the relays after they entered a system.

[MrFob]

What? The Reapers fly in from dark space. Why do you think they couldn't just fly to the Citadel? As to being locked out if the Citadel closed; maybe.

 

It's established in Revelation that the Nebula is a hazard for ships and a defense layer which may actually be maintained by the Citadel itself. It is possible that even the reapers cannot just fly through it for a prolonged time without taking damage or have trouble navigating. Flying through a dense cloud of who knows what is different from flying through dark space (which is empty). In any case, even if they can, they might still be detected too early.

[von uber]

Why doesn't the catalyst just open the arms? Or even the relay?

And before you say anything, in the control ending the shepalyst does just that - close the arms.

Basically the catalyst broke the entire trilogy, with cerberus adding the extra spice.

[themikefest]

If they don't head to the Citadel first, go to whatever system, turn off the relay preventing reinforcements to help the species in that system and start the harvest with very little resistance. Repeat for all the other systems.

 

If they head to the Citadel first and its arms are closed, leave x number of reapers to surround the thing. If a ship tries to enter the area, reapers destroy the ship. The rest of the reapers harvest the galaxy without much resistance.

[Natureguy85]

Do they need to fly straight to the Citadel though? Plan B was the Alpha Relay, so I guess Plan C is just taking over world by world, and I'm not sure, in the long run, it would matter all that much. The only thing I don't understand is why they didn't close off the relays after they entered a system.

 

Relays just make it go faster. But the speed at which they arrive in ME3 shows how pointless Arrival is.

 

As far as I know, they never explain how Relays are shut down or activated. Obviously they can be turned on locally, but maybe they can only be turned off at the Citadel.

 

 

 

 

It's established in Revelation that the Nebula is a hazard for ships and a defense layer which may actually be maintained by the Citadel itself. It is possible that even the reapers cannot just fly through it for a prolonged time without taking damage or have trouble navigating. Flying through a dense cloud of who knows what is different from flying through dark space (which is empty). In any case, even if they can, they might still be detected too early.

 

Books don't count. Anyway, even granting that, the Reapers are pretty hardy and are probably going to be fine. The Mu Relay survived some amount of force and dust from a supernova. If the Citadel does indeed maintain that nebula, that's even more reason to think the Reapers themselves can fly through it.

As to FTL, can ships in FTL be detected? Adams in the first game will talk about the Normandy being detected when entering or exiting FTL, but not while in it. If not, they wouldn't detect the Reapers until they were right there. Admiral Ozzle can not come out of light speed too close to the system.

 

 

 

Why doesn't the catalyst just open the arms? Or even the relay?

And before you say anything, in the control ending the shepalyst does just that - close the arms.

Basically the catalyst broke the entire trilogy, with cerberus adding the extra spice.

 

Yes, but gothpunk's excuse is that the Catalyst is just an observer. Of course he thinks that makes sense while the Reapers having a sister Relay to the Citadel out in Dark Space is dumb.

[MrFob]

If they don't head to the Citadel first, go to whatever system, turn off the relay preventing reinforcements to help the species in that system and start the harvest with very little resistance. Repeat for all the other systems.

This assumes that they can just open and close relays at will without the Citadel. I was always under the assumption that the only place where the network can be controlled is the Citadel. If anything, this is what the council should do, not the reapers.

 

If they head to the Citadel first and its arms are closed, leave x number of reapers to surround the thing. If a ship tries to enter the area, reapers destroy the ship. The rest of the reapers harvest the galaxy without much resistance.

 
What good will that do? They might be able to catch a few ships in the beginning but very quickly it will be clear that approaching the Citadel is not a good idea. Also, the Citadel itself doesn't give that much support to the races defending their worlds.
 
@von uber: Yep, the fact that the catalyst doesn't do anything before the ending is strange indeed. He doesn't do a thing in ME1, 2 or 3. The only "explanation" I can come up with is this one and I am completely aware that this is a stretch at best.
In any case, it's clear from many examples that the catalyst is unwilling or not capable of doing anything before the ending for whatever reason. It's just weird that way because the writers didn't really come up with this thing until very late in the production process I'd guess.

 

@Natureguy: The fact that books don't count for you is rather random IMO but we had this discussion before.

[Monica21]

Relays just make it go faster. But the speed at which they arrive in ME3 shows how pointless Arrival is.
 
As far as I know, they never explain how Relays are shut down or activated. Obviously they can be turned on locally, but maybe they can only be turned off at the Citadel.

Doesn't Vigil say that the Reapers turned the relays off system by system as they moved through? Or maybe they sent a signal back to the Keepers to turn off the relays. Or Vigil could just be making a best guess.

[Natureguy85]

This assumes that they can just open and close relays at will without the Citadel. I was always under the assumption that the only place where the network can be controlled is the Citadel. If anything, this is what the council should do, not the reapers.

 

 
What good will that do? They might be able to catch a few ships in the beginning but very quickly it will be clear that approaching the Citadel is not a good idea. Also, the Citadel itself doesn't give that much support to the races defending their worlds.
 
@von uber: Yep, the fact that the catalyst doesn't do anything before the ending is strange indeed. He doesn't do a thing in ME1, 2 or 3. The only "explanation" I can come up with is this one and I am completely aware that this is a stretch at best.
In any case, it's clear from many examples that the catalyst is unwilling or not capable of doing anything before the ending for whatever reason. It's just weird that way because the writers didn't really come up with this thing until very late in the production process I'd guess.

 

@Natureguy: The fact that books don't count for you is rather random IMO but we had this discussion before.

 

It's not random in the least. Anything important to the games must be in the games. Other media is for side stuff.

 

 

 

Doesn't Vigil say that the Reapers turned the relays off system by system as they moved through? Or maybe they sent a signal back to the Keepers to turn off the relays. Or Vigil could just be making a best guess.

 

No, he says "The Reapers seized control of the Citadel, and with it, the Mass Relays. Communication and transportation across our empire were crippled. Each system was isolated, cut off from the others. Easy prey for the Reaper fleets." They did it from the Citadel.

However, we do know that Relays can be turned on locally, as that's how the First Contact War started. Also, how else would the Citadel ever be found? I do wonder why the Reapers turn them OFF when they leave. Maybe it makes them seem older and less suspicious. You might explore a house that looks old and abandoned but not one that looks lived in.

[Iakus]

I really don't mind the reapers not attacking the citadel at the beginning of the game. The council races would have seen them coming (you can only arrive through certain mass relay routes, can't just fly there through the serpent nebula). They would have closed the arms and for all we know even the reapers wouldn't have been able to penetrate that defense.

The reapers could have besieged the Citadel but since surrender by the organics would have meant death anyway, the occupants might starve rather then open the arms again. In this worst case scenario for the reapers, they would not be able to take control over the Citadel ever again.

On the other hand, the home worlds and colonies of the major races are not as easily defensible and waging war there offers opportunities to indoctrinate people and eventually gain access to the Citadel though indoctrinated agents. For all we know this is exactly what they did.

Except by the end of ME3, the Reapers have captured the Citadel.  

 

And sending indoctrtrnated agents to spy and sabotage is exactly the sort of thing the Reapers do.  Heck in ME1 Sovereign came within a hair of capturing the Citadel with the help of Saren and the geth.  Put enough indoctrinated refugees on the Citadel and you could probably duplicate that. (come to think of it, Cerberus pulled a similar stunt with their coup attempt)

[Monica21]

No, he says "The Reapers seized control of the Citadel, and with it, the Mass Relays. Communication and transportation across our empire were crippled. Each system was isolated, cut off from the others. Easy prey for the Reaper fleets." They did it from the Citadel.

Ah, okay. Thanks for the clarification.

[gothpunkboy89]

What does any of the above have to with Mass Effect and the ending?

 

Because I made an off hand comment and someone jumped on it with both feet claiming I didn't know what I was talking about. 

[Natureguy85]

Except by the end of ME3, the Reapers have captured the Citadel.  

 

And sending indoctrtrnated agents to spy and sabotage is exactly the sort of thing the Reapers do.  Heck in ME1 Sovereign came within a hair of capturing the Citadel with the help of Saren and the geth.  Put enough indoctrinated refugees on the Citadel and you could probably duplicate that. (come to think of it, Cerberus pulled a similar stunt with their coup attempt)

 

Isn't that exactly what Mr.Fob said in his last sentence?

 

 

 

Because I made an off hand comment and someone jumped on it with both feet claiming I didn't know what I was talking about. 

 

You made an incorrect claim and a terrible comparison and you don't know what you're talking about. The fact that you couldn't say what it had to do with Mass Effect shows it.

[Iakus]

Isn't that exactly what Mr.Fob said in his last sentence?

 

 

Yes, but when you get down to it, the Reapers could have done it at any time, including prior to the game.  

[themikefest]

This assumes that they can just open and close relays at will without the Citadel. I was always under the assumption that the only place where the network can be controlled is the Citadel. If anything, this is what the council should do, not the reapers.

I believe they can. Until BioWare says otherwise, I say the reapers can open/close them without using the Citadel.
 

What good will that do?

Would Shepard of been informed about getting the Primarch for the summit? Would Shepard of been informed about the artifact on Thessia?