3528 réponses à ce sujet

[rossler]

Yes, normally Shepard or anyone would be dead. Under normal circumstances.

 

People and things acting out of character during the ending kind of hints at it being a dream sequence/hallucination. Or, it being "in his head". Reapers are messing with your head kind of thing.

 

Not to mention the whole thing being in slow motion as well as tons of reverb which is associated with dream sequences in games.

 

If you turn off everything except the sound effects, you can hear the dream like sound you heard earlier when you were chasing the kid around during the dream sequences.

[graylshaped]

I never played the original ending, so can't judge what people were reacting to.  Themetically, the extended version was a logical extension of the theme of sacrifice that others have pointed out.  As a game, I disliked that I was neutered and the gameplay put on rails as the end neared.  As a narrative, there were some structural issues with it that could have been solved by having the starchild take the form of the dead Ashley/Kaidan duo,  representing not only sacrifice, but the consequence of tough choices, and by slipping in better foreshadowing than the cheesy dream sequences.  My Shep deserved better than lazy writers.

 

I'm glad you enjoyed it.  I did, too.  Several times, in fact.  Particularly on my last replay, when I slid the Citadel DLC content in to its logical place in the timeline. 

[oddball_bg]

this thread is bait.

Why there are always people saying nonsense like that?!Bait for freakin' what?!Bait for what?!

Have you read anything I posted?!What else would I possibly want than expressing my feelings and starting a discussion?!You don't believe I liked the ending or what?!

[oddball_bg]

I never played the original ending, so can't judge what people were reacting to.  Themetically, the extended version was a logical extension of the theme of sacrifice that others have pointed out.  As a game, I disliked that I was neutered and the gameplay put on rails as the end neared.  As a narrative, there were some structural issues with it that could have been solved by having the starchild take the form of the dead Ashley/Kaidan duo,  representing not only sacrifice, but the consequence of tough choices, and by slipping in better foreshadowing than the cheesy dream sequences.  My Shep deserved better than lazy writers.

 

I'm glad you enjoyed it.  I did, too.  Several times, in fact.  Particularly on my last replay, when I slid the Citadel DLC content in to its logical place in the timeline. 

Thanks for answering!Glad you liked it too!I,however,don't find the writing lazy at all.

[themikefest]

  As a narrative, there were some structural issues with it that could have been solved by having the starchild take the form of the dead Ashley/Kaidan duo,  representing not only sacrifice, but the consequence of tough choices, and by slipping in better foreshadowing than the cheesy dream sequences.  My Shep deserved better than lazy writers.

Had Leviathan been part of the main game when it was released, that might of been possible.  Leviathan did change to different characters when it was talking to Shepard. Not only could it change to Ashley or Kaidan, but have it change to Anderson when talking about destroy, and then change to TIM when explaining control and I guess it could change to Saren when explaining synthesis. The only problem with it changing to Saren is that a player who hasn't played ME1, wouldn't know about Saren.. Maybe instead of Saren, maybe change to the edibot. I don't know.

[rossler]

Thanks for answering!Glad you liked it too!I,however,don't find the writing lazy at all.

 

Neither do I. It's very deliberate and fits perfectly from within the context of the game as well as previous games.

 

A lot of what the Catalyst says is something the Reapers have talked about in previous games. So I kind of knew I was talking to one. I didn't really need to have them put the face of Harbinger or something in order for me to figure it out.

 

The choices themselves fit with TIM (control), Saren (synthesis), and Shepard (destroy). Oh, and Harbinger (control, synthesis). Kai Leng (synthesis).

[dorktainian]

Neither do I. It's very deliberate and fits perfectly from within the context of the game as well as previous games.

 

A lot of what the Catalyst says is something the Reapers have talked about in previous games. So I kind of knew I was talking to one. I didn't really need to have them put the face of Harbinger or something in order for me to figure it out.

 

The choices themselves fit with TIM (control), Saren (synthesis), and Shepard (destroy). Oh, and Harbinger (control, synthesis). Kai Leng (synthesis).

 

I actually think the writing gets sloppy on purpose.  It's all a part of the ongoing manipulation of YOUR brain.  Good job Bioware.

[rossler]

Seems quite clever what they did.

 

Game (for 99% of trilogy): Your job is to destroy the Reapers.

Game (near the end): Destroying the Reapers is very bad. Control and synthesis are now the ideal solutions.

Player 1: Really? Okay. [jumps into beam] or [grabs power controls]

Player 2 (picked destroy): You just gave the Reapers exactly what they've been trying to do. We lost the war, and everyone is now a Reaper. Good job.

[AlanC9]

  As a narrative, there were some structural issues with it that could have been solved by having the starchild take the form of the dead Ashley/Kaidan duo,  representing not only sacrifice, but the consequence of tough choices, and by slipping in better foreshadowing than the cheesy dream sequences.  My Shep deserved better than lazy writers.

I agree that this would have been a better depiction.

Note that the dream sequences were in by the time the leaked script outline was written, but the form of the GUARDIAN (Catalyst) is not. We've typically assumed that they were always going to use the kid model there, though. It's more likely that they didn't bother talking about the scene because at that stage they had no idea what was going into it.

[AlanC9]

The great thing about IT is that it's evidence-proof. Anything inconvenient for the theory is just more indoctrination.

[Iakus]

The great thing about IT is that it's evidence-proof. Anything inconvenient for the theory is just more indoctrination.

Lots of speculations for everyone, amirite?

[rossler]

The great thing about IT is that it's evidence-proof. Anything inconvenient for the theory is just more indoctrination.

 

That's what some people believe.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Had Leviathan been part of the main game when it was released, that might of been possible.  Leviathan did change to different characters when it was talking to Shepard. Not only could it change to Ashley or Kaidan, but have it change to Anderson when talking about destroy, and then change to TIM when explaining control and I guess it could change to Saren when explaining synthesis. The only problem with it changing to Saren is that a player who hasn't played ME1, wouldn't know about Saren.. Maybe instead of Saren, maybe change to the edibot. I don't know.

 

Saren, I think, would only make sense for IT. He only advocated that idea when he was at max Indoctrination. At that point it just seems like the Indoctrination self-justification for doing crazy actions. Then again, I guess this applies to TIM too, so I guess I don't know for sure.

[oddball_bg]

I actually think the writing gets sloppy on purpose.  It's all a part of the ongoing manipulation of YOUR brain.  Good job Bioware.

Ha,ha ha...!Yeah,right!

[dorktainian]

Ha,ha ha...!Yeah,right!

seriously.  why are people still talking about the merits of whatever decision they made, even now?  Speculations for Everyone.  They planned it.

[Iakus]

seriously.  why are people still talking about the merits of whatever decision they made, even now?  Speculations for Everyone.  They planned it.

 

Gone Horribly Right  

[Gkonone]

Even if you're not a native speaker, I'm not either by the way, use paragraphs. I didn't read it all, it was too much of a wall of text.

Anyway, great you enjoyed the endings. They are a big mess though, on many levels.

[oddball_bg]

Even if you're not a native speaker, I'm not either by the way, use paragraphs. I didn't read it all, it was too much of a wall of text.

Anyway, great you enjoyed the endings. They are a big mess though, on many levels.

According to you.According to me the endings are amazing!

[Gkonone]

According to you.According to me the endings are amazing!

Well, on some level they may be, but if you look at the big picture, the endings are atrocious. If people like the endings, like you do, more power to them. I think they're horrible, and I've elaborated on why I think they are several times, not going there anymore.

[CronoDragoon]

It occurs to me that you could draw up a useful taxonomy of ME fans by asking them when the series became stupid.

You could say the series was actually very smart, insofar as it was able to get away with so much until the very end. It chose wisely which narrative corners to cut and/or ignore.

[oddball_bg]

Well, on some level they may be, but if you look at the big picture, the endings are atrocious. If people like the endings, like you do, more power to them. I think they're horrible, and I've elaborated on why they think they are several times, not going there anymore.

Well,ok,I've also written why I think it's amazing.If you wanna discuss it's fine,if you don't it's fine as well.Thanks for sharing,anyway.

 

And I'm liking it exactly because of the big picture!I like how it goes in a completely unexpected(in a way) direction and offers a twist that changes everything in a non-domestic level.Maybe you expected more domestic(grounded) type of ending?

[AlanC9]

That's what some people believe.

What does belief have to do with it? It's simply true that IT means that in-game evidence can be interpreted any way you want to.

[AlanC9]

Lots of speculations for everyone, amirite?

Sure. And once you let that genie out of the bottle, you can't stuff it back in. Not that Bio tried really hard to kill IT with the EC. They had more important bad interpretations to kill, since the IT guys are happy anyway.

[Gkonone]

Well,ok,I've also written why I think it's amazing.If you wanna discuss it's fine,if you don't it's fine as well.Thanks for sharing,anyway.

 

And I'm liking it exactly because of the big picture!I like how it goes in a completely unexpected(in a way) direction and offers a twist that changes everything in a non-domestic level.Maybe you expected more domestic(grounded) type of ending?

Not to start another discussion, but mostly to give you an idea of my perception on the endings, here's a link to what I said in another topic on the endings:

http://forum.bioware...ith-me3/page-30

You'll have to scroll down a bit for my post.

 

Rereading that now I didn't mention the horrible deus ex machina part in that post, did mention that in another post I think.

[rossler]

The way the choices are presented at the end is to prevent Shepard from destroying the Reapers.

 

From that point of view, it makes sense. The Reapers know Shepard is about to destroy them, so concoct a story to prevent that from happening.

 

-You want to destroy the Reapers? You'll destroy your synthetic friends too. As well as the mass relays, etc. You'll also die in the process because you are partly synthetic (the implants from ME2).

-Synthesis is the "ideal" solution, not destroy.

-You can control us if you want. (it was proven earlier on that you cannot control the Reapers)

 

You know what? People actually believed every word of this. They either didn't destroy the Reapers. Or talked about it online how immoral the choices were. How they didn't fit the story or whatever the reason was.