3598 réponses à ce sujet

[BloodyMares]

Or just realize that if luring species to the Citadel is part of the trap they would want to make sure no one could accidentally find out about the Catalyst thus left most controls to the Citadel out side of it's control. Leaving them in the Keeper's hand so other species could learn the basic controls like opening and closing arms. Making them think they have full control.

There is a thing called "shared control". It could share these harmless priviligies like opening and closing arms (let the children play with their toys) but the administrator is still the Catalyst and if it chooses, it could override any outside input and instead execute its own commands. That's what an intelligent being would do in this situation. AI even more so.

[kal_reegar]

Yes, you are. Headcanon. As long as something is not outright stated in the game by characters or supported by some strong evidence then it is headcanon. Your theory shouldn't be falsified. It might as well be a subtle canon if the author later reveals it to be true like J.K. Rowling did with Dumbledore's homosexuality. So basically it doesn't matter if that's plausible or not if it wasn't revealed in the game. It is still a headcanon and therefore there is no need to persuade others to believe it.

So can we go back to the main subject?

 

Gay Dumbledore and straight Dumbledor (or asexual Dumbledore) were both perfectly plausible scenarios. None of them is contradicted by in-book information, nor creates plot holes.

None of them is headcanon, imho. It's just a different interpretation of what we know.

 

anyway, let's go back to the main subject

 

 

 

Why do you refuse to focus on the specific situation and instead keep reverting to generalities? We are talking about one function, the Citadel Relay. Make it two if you want to talk about the Arms. Yet every time you talk about controlling all functions. Why can you not focus on the two most crucial ones?

 

 

as I've said, I believe that the catalyst/reapers used to indirectly control the relay function through some kind of link/connection (probably the keepers) which the prothean scientists were able to break.

 

 

 

Why should they create it to think up a solution but be unable to enact it? How did it have control of the Pawns used to kill the Leviathans? How did it make Harbinger? How did it operate the hologram and sound generators to talk to them or to Shepard?

 

for the same reason that we create chess software unable to drive a plane. We don't need them to do certain tasks.

he control pawns, make reapers etc by giving orders. By preseting solutions (the same thing he did with shep).

the hologram, the elevator and the sound continue to seems to me as something that even the less advanced and broken AI in the Universe can perform... 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, moving the platform is probably more complicated than simply switching the Relay to "on." But wait, operating the ship was the same as operating a body because both were mechanical. So why are these different?

 

because EDI was created in order to "operating things". So it's ok that she manage to have a direct control over ships, bodies etc.

the catalyst was created for another purpose, far more abstract, so to me it's equally ok that he need some kind of conjunctions and/or connections in order to control ships, bodies, space stations, mass relay etc

 

 

 

he problem is that you're reshaping what came before to fit the new information rather than demanding that new information fit within the story that was being told. We are doing the latter. Again, there's nothing wrong with you imagining a situation so that it makes more sense. It is, however, ridiculous to use those imaginings to try to counter our criticism of the crappy writing.

 

but I agree with you about the crappy writing.

I just think that EC gave us, at least, enough information to imagine a few scenarios so that everything makes sense.

[BloodyMares]

but I agree with you about the crappy writing.

I just think that EC gave us, at least, enough information to imagine a few scenarios so that everything makes sense.

It's not our job to fix the trilogy. We don't want to imagine things to make sense of it. If it doesn't make sense on its own merit then it's the writer's fault, not ours.

[Natureguy85]

Gay Dumbledore and straight Dumbledor (or asexual Dumbledore) were both perfectly plausible scenarios. None of them is contradicted by in-book information, nor creates plot holes.

None of them is headcanon, imho. It's just a different interpretation of what we know.

 

Well the term is often used on a negative manner, if the matter is left open and you decide that it is one of the options, that's your headcanon. Again, there isn't anything wrong with that on its face.

 

 

 

 

as I've said, I believe that the catalyst/reapers used to indirectly control the relay function through some kind of link/connection (probably the keepers) which the prothean scientists were able to break.

 

How did it use the Keepers? The Leviathans didn't make it for that purpose.

 

 

 

 

 

for the same reason that we create chess software unable to drive a plane. We don't need them to do certain tasks.

he control pawns, make reapers etc by giving orders. By preseting solutions (the same thing he did with shep).

the hologram, the elevator and the sound continue to seems to me as something that even the less advanced and broken AI in the Universe can perform... 

Hey, we already have Gothpunkboy for bad analogies. Don't cramp his style. The proper analogy for my question would be chess software that can't move the pieces on the board.

Who is the Catalyst giving orders to? Why can it give orders to factories or whatever to make pawns, orders to pawns, orders to Reapers, but not orders to the Citadel?

 

 

 

 

 

because EDI was created in order to "operating things". So it's ok that she manage to have a direct control over ships, bodies etc.

the catalyst was created for another purpose, far more abstract, so to me it's equally ok that he need some kind of conjunctions and/or connections in order to control ships, bodies, space stations, mass relay etc

 

Ok, so you're just going to be as specific or generic as you need to be to make whatever point you want. There's not point in even having a discussion if that's the case.

 

 

 

but I agree with you about the crappy writing.

I just think that EC gave us, at least, enough information to imagine a few scenarios so that everything makes sense.

 

 

I'm still not sure what information the EC provided on this topic. It added the evac scene, added a few inconsequential lines of dialogue, altered the Relay destruction cutscenes to subvert Arrival, and added the epilogues. What am I forgetting?

[Natureguy85]

It's not our job to fix the trilogy. We don't want to imagine things to make sense of it. If it doesn't make sense on its own merit then it's the writer's fault, not ours.

 

I think it's ok for minor or background details, but this is the entire plot of the first game on the line here.

[voteDC]

It would be hell of an endeavour but I would love to see someone write the trilogy as their character and put their end onto it.

Give it a try myself but my mental state doesn't allow much concentration at the moment.

[BloodyMares]

I think it's ok for minor or background details, but this is the entire plot of the first game on the line here.

Yeah, by the trilogy I mostly meant ME2 and 3 and how they don't fit into the universe established by ME1.

[kal_reegar]

 

 

How did it use the Keepers? The Leviathans didn't make it for that purpose.

 

In order to solve the problem, he needed to give orders instructions to his subordinates, I suppose...

 

btw, gothpunkboy89 hypothesis may work too... I'm not inflexible about that, there are probably hundreds of plausible ways to explain the catalyst's lack of full and direct control over the citadel

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who is the Catalyst giving orders to? Why can it give orders to factories or whatever to make pawns, orders to pawns, orders to Reapers, but not orders to the Citadel?

 

because communicating orders to sentient beings and directly controlling a space station/mass relay is a very different thing, imho.

 

he communicate with shepard, explain him many things, try to influnce him, but he still needs shepard to ""make thing happen", from a mechanical/material point of view.

 

 

 

Ok, so you're just going to be as specific or generic as you need to be to make whatever point you want. There's not point in even having a discussion if that's the case.

 

Simply, a software/AI can be more adaptable or less adaptable to certain activities, depending on the purpose for which it was created.

It will be able to perform those activities more or less directly, without or with the need of extra-connection, depending on its inherent, original characteristic and limitations.

 

as I said, I do believe that the catalyst elaborated a way to control the citadel. Simply, it was a "breakable" one.

[gothpunkboy89]

There is a thing called "shared control". It could share these harmless priviligies like opening and closing arms (let the children play with their toys) but the administrator is still the Catalyst and if it chooses, it could override any outside input and instead execute its own commands. That's what an intelligent being would do in this situation. AI even more so.

 

But why even have that? Open and closing is pretty meaningless when the main focus of the Reaper attack is to attack the Citadel first. Keepers keep everything running.

[Dantriges]

Wait, Shadow Broker bugged the ship? Which ship? Good my Shep doesn't romance anyone in ME2. Could be awkward with all that around. (But since Cerberus so kindly placed the portrait of the ME1 love interest on her desk, I'm not sure who's the worse meddler here.)
 
Either way, I don't trust a word TIM says and I don't trust his judgement, either. He keeps yanking Shepard around and then he pulls this stunt right after Horizon which he manipulated into happening. The only reason I think TIM likely believes this is that I don't think he would risk wasting that much money and "bloody icon" just for lulz. Whether I think he handled the situation well is another matter entirely.

 
You can find a video file of Jacob doing his fitness routine, chatlogs, emails etc from the crew on the ship of the Shadow Broker. But actually I think it´s more likely that the Shadow Broker didn´t bug the Normandy, he hacked into the Cerberus database where EDI deposits her reports. It´s easier, more likely than the Shadow Broker having a mole in the construction crew and I assume an AI specialised on cyberwarfare would detect unauthorized transmissions or data packages hiding within their normal communications. And well, why bug a ship, which is already filled to the brim with spyware, controlled by a cyberwarfare AI when you can snoop in the reports.

as I said, I do believe that the catalyst elaborated a way to control the citadel. Simply, it was a "breakable" one.

Means youtrumped an AI in cyberwarfare, which is an area every AI should be proficient in and especially the Catalyst. Otherwise we wouldn´t need a Crucible, just hack the thing.

[Natureguy85]

because communicating orders to sentient beings and directly controlling a space station/mass relay is a very different thing, imho.

 

he communicate with shepard, explain him many things, try to influnce him, but he still needs shepard to ""make thing happen", from a mechanical/material point of view.

 

Yes, things will be different if your argument needs them to be different and the same if your argument needs them to be the same. Again, communicating to the space station is easier because it doesn't think for itself.

 

The Catalyst needs Shepard to act, not because it's incapable, but because Shepard has to actually do something. For Synthesis, Shepard needs to choose it because "it is not something that can be forced" for some reason. For Control, Shepard needs to grab the electrodes so he can upload. And with Destroy, he needs to shoot the tube because it does... something. 

 

 

 

 

Simply, a software/AI can be more adaptable or less adaptable to certain activities, depending on the purpose for which it was created.

It will be able to perform those activities more or less directly, without or with the need of extra-connection, depending on its inherent, original characteristic and limitations.

 

as I said, I do believe that the catalyst elaborated a way to control the citadel. Simply, it was a "breakable" one.

 

And there is no good, logical reason why it should not be able to directly control the Relay function. You have to make a ridiculous, though technically possible, assumption to make it work.

[kal_reegar]

 

And there is no good, logical reason why it should not be able to directly control the Relay function. You have to make a ridiculous, though technically possible, assumption to make it work.

 

 

yeah, in a SCI-FI Lore, talking about an AI we know very little about, created by beings we know very little about, in a time we know nothing about, for a purpose we barely understand, there are ZERO possible reason to explain a sort indirect/breakable control over a mass relay (tech that we know very little about).

The fact that two or more steps are needed to open a giant mass relay through the dark space is absolutely unconceivable.

 

come on.

 

And what is the alternative to this unlikely assumption? The catalyst has full and direct control over the citadel and all its primary functionalities. Ok. And ME1 becomes nothing but a giant plot hole...

 

 

 

 

Means youtrumped an AI in cyberwarfare, which is an area every AI should be proficient in and especially the Catalyst. Otherwise we wouldn´t need a Crucible, just hack the thing. 

 

 

the prothean scientist were the true savior of the galaxy. They out-smart the reapers and the catalyst. True badasses.

I want a prequel about them.

 

 

 

 

The Catalyst needs Shepard to act, not because it's incapable, but because Shepard has to actually do something. For Synthesis, Shepard needs to choose it because "it is not something that can be forced" for some reason. For Control, Shepard needs to grab the electrodes so he can upload. And with Destroy, he needs to shoot the tube because it does... something. 

 

Nothing to say about that. A rational interpretation. But the two things (Shepard has to act, especially with synthesis and control; the catalyst is incapable to control directly the mass relay) are not mutually exclusive.

"

[Dantriges]

And what is the alternative to this unlikely assumption? The catalyst has full and direct control over the citadel and all its primary functionalities. Ok. And ME1 becomes nothing but a giant plot hole...

 

Yes and please BW, try to avoid that kind of stuff in the future.
 

the prothean scientist were the true savior of the galaxy. They out-smart the reapers and the catalyst. True badasses.
I want a prequel about them.

That´s not outsmarting, that´s handing an idiot ball the size of Jupiter to the Catalyst (again). As I said, they did not arrive in a stealth ship, they barged in via a mass relay, a high energy system which probably distorted local gravity, mass and whatever. That´s something noticeable, unless you design space stations where you don´t care that unexplained energy spikes happen within the station, where you house your central intelligence and design a network system that doesn´t realize that something is fishy in the connections for 50.000 years, hacked by people who were unaware that there actually is an AI on board.

[gothpunkboy89]

 

And what is the alternative to this unlikely assumption? The catalyst has full and direct control over the citadel and all its primary functionalities. Ok. And ME1 becomes nothing but a giant plot hole...

 

 

Well that seems to be the point. Anything that lets them complain about ME 2 and ME 3's story line.

 

Reapers create giant mass relay to pull them in from dark space. Disguise it as a massive space station so if found it won't raise suspicions. Installs the guiding intelligence behind the Reapers on it so it can watch and learn during each cycle as it continues to search for a better solution to the problem. They create and program the keepers to maintain and upkeep the space station in all critical areas so any species that finds it wouldn't need to search to deep into it. While leaving the non critical functions free to be discovered and used by the species that finds it.

 

The Catalyst was created to study and solve a problem. The Reapers were created to enact a solution so it has no need to control the Citadel's signal. That is what it created the Reapers for. Sovereign or what ever Vanguard they left behind to watch the growth of civilization was in charge of doing that.

 

And that basic set up worked for thousands of cycles covering millions of years. But this would tie everything up in a fairly nice bow to explain everything. How ever it would rob them the ability to complain about ME 2 and 3. Even though this set up makes perfect logical sense because it robs them of their ability to complain they are resistant to it. Instead wanting to set the story up in a way that makes no sense what so ever so they can continue to take pot shots at BioWare.

[Natureguy85]

yeah, in a SCI-FI Lore, talking about an AI we know very little about, created by beings we know very little about, in a time we know nothing about, for a purpose we barely understand, there are ZERO possible reason to explain a sort indirect/breakable control over a mass relay (tech that we know very little about).

The fact that two or more steps are needed to open a giant mass relay through the dark space is absolutely unconceivable.

 

come on."

 

We don't need to know much about those things. We do know:

 

1) The Catalyst created the Citadel

2) The Catalyst created the Reapers and the Cycle

3) The Catalyst thinks its task is very important.

4) The Catalyst is more advance and intelligent than even an AI (according to itself).

 

There is no reason to do a multi-step process, which means multiple systems that can break down and therefore halt the process, when a simpler, one step solution is not only available, but easier to implement. Given the importance of its task, one would think the Catalyst would chose the path with the least chance of failure or problems. It's not that a multi-step process is inconceivable, it's that it's inferior.

 

 

 

 

And what is the alternative to this unlikely assumption? The catalyst has full and direct control over the citadel and all its primary functionalities. Ok. And ME1 becomes nothing but a giant plot hole...

"

 

Welcome back to the reality that is the Mass Effect series.

 

 

 

 

the prothean scientist were the true savior of the galaxy. They out-smart the reapers and the catalyst. True badasses.

I want a prequel about them.

 

"

 

Very true. None of the events of the series would be possible without them and Vigil.

 

 

 

 

Nothing to say about that. A rational interpretation. But the two things (Shepard has to act, especially with synthesis and control; the catalyst is incapable to control directly the mass relay) are not mutually exclusive.

"

 

Correct. This is merely to point out that the Catalyst needing Shepard to choose the endings is not evidence that the Catalyst can not or should not be able to control the Relay function.

 

 

 

Well that seems to be the point. Anything that lets them complain about ME 2 and ME 3's story line.

 

Reapers create giant mass relay to pull them in from dark space. Disguise it as a massive space station so if found it won't raise suspicions. Installs the guiding intelligence behind the Reapers on it so it can watch and learn during each cycle as it continues to search for a better solution to the problem. They create and program the keepers to maintain and upkeep the space station in all critical areas so any species that finds it wouldn't need to search to deep into it. While leaving the non critical functions free to be discovered and used by the species that finds it.

 

The Catalyst was created to study and solve a problem. The Reapers were created to enact a solution so it has no need to control the Citadel's signal. That is what it created the Reapers for. Sovereign or what ever Vanguard they left behind to watch the growth of civilization was in charge of doing that.

 

And that basic set up worked for thousands of cycles covering millions of years. But this would tie everything up in a fairly nice bow to explain everything. How ever it would rob them the ability to complain about ME 2 and 3. Even though this set up makes perfect logical sense because it robs them of their ability to complain they are resistant to it. Instead wanting to set the story up in a way that makes no sense what so ever so they can continue to take pot shots at BioWare.

 

The first half of this post is all fine. However the Catalyst existing and not giving itself direct control over the Relay is ridiculous. The system set up in Mass Effect 1 has extra steps which means it has more ways to fail. It is an inferior system. We didn't set the story up in a way that makes no sense. Bioware did that.

[gothpunkboy89]

The first half of this post is all fine. However the Catalyst existing and not giving itself direct control over the Relay is ridiculous. The system set up in Mass Effect 1 has extra steps which means it has more ways to fail. It is an inferior system. We didn't set the story up in a way that makes no sense. Bioware did that.

 

It isn't ridiculous. Why does it need direct control? The Keepers handle that part in conjunction with the Reaper Vanguard to start the harvest. Reaper pings the Citadel. The Citadel's automatic functions responds to the ping triggers the keepers and the Keeprs in turn physically activate the Relay.

 

This isn't more ways to fail it is more ways to hide the connection. All these seemingly separate systems working together to hide the truth about the Relay makes a lot more sense then a centralized system that someone could stumble across. What you are thinking is about convenience not secrecy. Secrecy is why this system works. It is why Kasumi's BF divided the data he was trying to hide into dozens or more of his memories in his grey box. Specifically so if someone did manage to hack it they wouldn't be able to easily piece the data together. Much like the various different systems that wouldn't seem to interact with each other would make it much harder for any intelligence species. Particularly once smart enough to reverse engineer ME technology and activate the relays from finding out what the Citadel really is and what role the Keepers play in it.

[Dantriges]

What´s the point in having it there, then? You can analyze the data after capture and it seems that the AI didn´t snoop in the databases before the harvest. The Ilos data was in the system and erased during the initial attack on the Citadel.

 

There is no point in putting the Catalyst there, if it doesn´t do anything. If you need it there during the harvest, build an attachable module and take it with you during your stay in dark space hibernation.

[Eryri]

What´s the point in having it there, then? You can analyze the data after capture and it seems that the AI didn´t snoop in the databases before the harvest. The Ilos data was in the system and erased during the initial attack on the Citadel.

There is no point in putting the Catalyst there, if it doesn´t do anything. If you need it there during the harvest, build an attachable module and take it with you during your stay in dark space hibernation.

The Catalyst's safety does rather seem to depend on countless generations all being too obedient / lazy to ever delve into the Citadel's inner workings, despite all the potentially valuable technology potentially hidden away there. You would think that would at least inspire some curiosity, if not outright greed. I know there were laws in place to prevent this in the Council's time, and the Keepers could be mildly obstructive, but you'd think at least one tenant species would say "to hell with it" and try to make a concerted effort to gain access.

[kal_reegar]

 


That´s not outsmarting, that´s handing an idiot ball the size of Jupiter to the Catalyst (again). As I said, they did not arrive in a stealth ship, they barged in via a mass relay, a high energy system which probably distorted local gravity, mass and whatever. That´s something noticeable, unless you design space stations where you don´t care that unexplained energy spikes happen within the station, where you house your central intelligence and design a network system that doesn´t realize that something is fishy in the connections for 50.000 years, hacked by people who were unaware that there actually is an AI on board.

 

 

the most incapable, cut off from the outside world, incorporeal, abstract, incapable of complex material actions, the best the catalyst works, and the less plot holes/inferior scenario it creates.

he is a useless addition (everything he've said/done, could have been said/done by any random reaper) so the less concrete impact he has, the better.

 

 

 

ah, just for curiosity, how do you conciliate:

a ) the fact the the catalyst declare that he is controlling the reapers (collective intelligence etc, the sheparlyst fully control them etc, the space brat starting to call himself as "we" etc), or at least has a very strong influence over them

b ) the fact that the catalyst want the crucible to be used (he's solution won't work anymore!), but if shepard wait too long, it appears a game over scenario with "the crucible has been destroyed" (I've always supposed by the reapers)

c ) tha fact that if the crucible could be simply not used and than removed/destroyed without consequences, how in the hell the variables have been changed? If the reapers win the battle and remove the crucible, how the variables have been changed?

 

 

Which of this horrible, unlikely assumpion to you repute the less absurd?

 

1. the catalyst has a very weak control over the reapers fleet. He can merely influence them, and only the long term. They are trying to destroy the crucible (as they tried to do before), and they'll continue to do so despite the change of variables. So the catalyst need Shepard to act quickly, before his own pawns destroy the crucible and thus his masterplan (next cycle will win)

 

2. the catalyst has full/great control over the reapers fleet, and so the reapers fleet is not attacking the crucible; but the crucible, being in the middle of a huge space battle, is in a dangerous position: with "stray bullets" everywhere, it's inevitable that in few minutes it will be damaged and destroyed (next cycle will win)

 

3a. The destruction/removal of the crucible (indipentently by whom and why: overload, friendly fire, reapers etc) will very much likely release a wave of energy that will heavily damage the reapers fleet (and possibly, the catalyst), and they will be unable to win against next cycle.

So the catalyst, indipentenlty of his level of control over the reapers, needs to act quickly, in order to avoid heavy losses

 

3b. The destruction/removal of the crucible ((indipentently by whom and why: overload, friendly fire, reapers etc)) will cause no immediate, negative consequences for the reapers, but the mere fact that organics were able to go so far (build the crucible; make the crucible dock on the citadel; activate it; only one little little step from total victory) is enough to makes the catalyst realize that his solution is no longer effective

[Reorte]

It isn't ridiculous. Why does it need direct control?

Have you played the game? That shows you why, it would all have been over for the galaxy by the end of ME1 if it had control. It makes as much sense as having a car with an engine and wheels but not connecting the two together so you need someone to push it to make it move. There's little risk of discovery like that, particularly if the Catalyst can send commands wirelessly to the bits the Keepers fiddle around with. Even if it isn't wireless one extra wire going who-knows-where doesn't really pose a risk with races not trying to pull it apart to figure it all out, and wouldn't change anything with ones that did.

[gothpunkboy89]

What´s the point in having it there, then? You can analyze the data after capture and it seems that the AI didn´t snoop in the databases before the harvest. The Ilos data was in the system and erased during the initial attack on the Citadel.

 

There is no point in putting the Catalyst there, if it doesn´t do anything. If you need it there during the harvest, build an attachable module and take it with you during your stay in dark space hibernation.

 

 

Why would the deletion of the Ilos data be some big red flag to it? You know about how important Ilos turned out to be but only because you know the series of events that took place afterwards. Are you really going to sit there and tell me that when facing an over whelming force and it it clear that defeat was a sure thing they didn't try to delete all their data archives? Particularity once related to were their colonies are. Ilos is only ever mentioned because it is the only one that actually managed to avoid Reaper detection because they went into their stasis pod. No out going and incoming transmissions to track. No refugees running to it. No Prothean Empire Remnants rallying to defend it.

[gothpunkboy89]

Have you played the game? That shows you why, it would all have been over for the galaxy by the end of ME1 if it had control. It makes as much sense as having a car with an engine and wheels but not connecting the two together so you need someone to push it to make it move. There's little risk of discovery like that, particularly if the Catalyst can send commands wirelessly to the bits the Keepers fiddle around with. Even if it isn't wireless one extra wire going who-knows-where doesn't really pose a risk with races not trying to pull it apart to figure it all out, and wouldn't change anything with ones that did.

 

I've played the game and you still haven't shown why it needs control other then you think it does. That Catalyst having indirect control though the Keepers is an interesting set up. And could work because the basis of what the Prothean Scientists did was alter the signal that controls the Keepers. Signal altered and the Keepers remain on auto pilot.

[Reorte]

Like I said, the game demonstrated that it needed control because if it had control the Reapers would've won, easily, by the end of ME1. Sure, you can have a far more unreliable, convoluted means, i.e. what we've got, that might work most of the time, but why have that? What sound reason is there for building that more complex and less reliable Heath Robinson setup? The only reason is "avoids discovery" but that's a rather dubious claim that only works thanks to everyone not acting in a terribly believable fashion. As has already been pointed out the Keepers made an interesting means of control in the scenario where there's nothing else there, hence nothing else to discover, but once there is, well, then it just becomes daft.

[Dantriges]

Ilos was a target in the general harvest operation, independant of its special status. If the Catalyst was collecting data in between the cycles the Reapers would have had the coordinates and harvested it, because they harvest or kill everyone they can find. Seems it doesn´t, the Catalyst also isn´t used in the vanguard-keeper-relay opening routine, so there´s no point in having it located in the Citadel in the first place.
 

the most incapable, cut off from the outside world, incorporeal, abstract, incapable of complex material actions, the best the catalyst works, and the less plot holes/inferior scenario it creates.
he is a useless addition (everything he've said/done, could have been said/done by any random reaper) so the less concrete impact he has, the better.

You don´t need to do the writer´s job for them. A bit of filling in the blanks or suspension of disbelief is ok, nothing is perfect, but the writers went full steam ahead into nonsense territory.
 

ah, just for curiosity, how do you conciliate:
a ) the fact the the catalyst declare that he is controlling the reapers (collective intelligence etc, the sheparlyst fully control them etc, the space brat starting to call himself as "we" etc), or at least has a very strong influence over them
b ) the fact that the catalyst want the crucible to be used (he's solution won't work anymore!), but if shepard wait too long, it appears a game over scenario with "the crucible has been destroyed" (I've always supposed by the reapers)
c ) tha fact that if the crucible could be simply not used and than removed/destroyed without consequences, how in the hell the variables have been changed? If the reapers win the battle and remove the crucible, how the variables have been changed?

 
In general, I gave up to make sense of that. I am actualy quite willing to fill in the blanks between stuff myself, but you stumble over some other detail when you found a working explanation.
 

Which of this horrible, unlikely assumpion to you repute the less absurd?
 
1. the catalyst has a very weak control over the reapers fleet. He can merely influence them, and only the long term. They are trying to destroy the crucible (as they tried to do before), and they'll continue to do so despite the change of variables. So the catalyst need Shepard to act quickly, before his own pawns destroy the crucible and thus his masterplan (next cycle will win)
 
2. the catalyst has full/great control over the reapers fleet, and so the reapers fleet is not attacking the crucible; but the crucible, being in the middle of a huge space battle, is in a dangerous position: with "stray bullets" everywhere, it's inevitable that in few minutes it will be damaged and destroyed (next cycle will win)
 
3a. The destruction/removal of the crucible (indipentently by whom and why: overload, friendly fire, reapers etc) will very much likely release a wave of energy that will heavily damage the reapers fleet (and possibly, the catalyst), and they will be unable to win against next cycle.
So the catalyst, indipentenlty of his level of control over the reapers, needs to act quickly, in order to avoid heavy losses
 
3b. The destruction/removal of the crucible ((indipentently by whom and why: overload, friendly fire, reapers etc)) will cause no immediate, negative consequences for the reapers, but the mere fact that organics were able to go so far (build the crucible; make the crucible dock on the citadel; activate it; only one little little step from total victory) is enough to makes the catalyst realize that his solution is no longer effective

It seems that the Crucible is actually the controlling instance and the Catalyst not in complete control. The Catalyst accepts Low EMS destroy with no alternatives and you even get the walkway raised which leads to the tube. It also seems that you can shut down the Crucible without it exploding, as seen in Refuse. It´s a wide stretch but more believable that some ancient species got its hands on the source code of the AI (from the Leviathans perhaps) and incorporated a hacking module into the space magic than a bunch of protheans tricking an AI they didn´t know existed. In Refuse the Catalyst got over it and kicked it out of the system. Doesn´t fit, if you apply timing, but well it´s a video game where you can theoretically stop mid conversation, drink a coffee, take a nap and then continue.

[Vanilka]

 
You can find a video file of Jacob doing his fitness routine, chatlogs, emails etc from the crew on the ship of the Shadow Broker. But actually I think it´s more likely that the Shadow Broker didn´t bug the Normandy, he hacked into the Cerberus database where EDI deposits her reports. It´s easier, more likely than the Shadow Broker having a mole in the construction crew and I assume an AI specialised on cyberwarfare would detect unauthorized transmissions or data packages hiding within their normal communications. And well, why bug a ship, which is already filled to the brim with spyware, controlled by a cyberwarfare AI when you can snoop in the reports.

 

Damn, you know, I completely forgot about that? Somehow it being side content that's available later in the game didn't quite click with the Collector plot in my head while we discussed that. Perhaps because it has next to nothing to do with it besides tiny details here and there.

 

I forgot the Shadow Broker is one of those characters. He and TIM have the uncanny ability to know everything and be everywhere at the best possible time and have unlimited resources because reasons. Guess I shouldn't bother questioning it any more.