3598 réponses à ce sujet

[angol fear]

There is no golden ending to this game. If there was people would complain about the lack of choice all over again, because there's only one choice which brings you to the golden ending. Funny how people talk about lack of choices in the ending, but they keep demanding for one golden ending. 

 

Same goes for the lack of a canon ending. There is no canon ending, because it basically says to the player "this is how the story is supposed to end". Which again, robs the player of choice. 

 

The base game has three main endings with various differences in the outcomes. It's up to the player to choose which one is best for them. 

 

That's true and that's one of the reasons why the original ending had this form.

[themikefest]

Harbinger has a distinct appearance from the other Reapers due to its yellow glowing eyes. Second, you don't need to have Harbinger even say anything in order to have it make an appearance. You could have it shooting down soldiers trying to get to the beam, but it's still an apearance. 

Would someone who's playing ME3 for the first time know its Harbinger? All they would know its some reaper firing its beam of doom at soldiers running to the beam

 

For me, having Harbinger show up, through one of the uglies each time Shepard fights them, would be a continuation from ME2. For me, the best part is hearing him talk smack to my Shepard. Too bad that couldn't continue in ME3. But then again ME3 is the third game in a trilogy and is the best place to start playing. Right?

[Prince Enigmatic]

What battle of minds with TIM? It was just a sequence of morality checks and you could win simply by taking a renegade interrupt.

 

Minds? Don't know why that was there, I meant to put battle of the wits, but i was typing that on my crappy phone. I literally have to go over everything i type on that to make sure i recorrect any typos, must have missed that one, apologies. 

 

Battle of minds would only really make sense for those picketing the Indoctrination Theory, which I never liked.

[gothpunkboy89]

Cerberus becomes the main antagonist in the strictest use of the word. You fight it on more missions and it actively opposed Shepard and gets in his way whereas the Reapers are mostly just around fighting all the Organics. Where are the Reapers slow and deliberate? They are brute forcing the galaxy and attacking everything. It's fine to have the second opposing force, but they should be featured less if the primary opposing force is actively invading, like the Reapers. Dragon Age Origins was different because the Darkspawn were "over there" in another part of the country.

 

 

It's not different opinions, it's that reading the stupid things you post is a mental health risk.

 

But they aren't just using brute force. If they did then no planet would be around and Anderson would have been dead on Earth before Shepard even reached the Council. But what they do is over whelm and break resistance of each planet. Land on it and then very slowly and methodically round up every single living person on the planet and process them. Laying waste to most cities leaving just enough behind to ensure the next cycle doesn't learn to much.

 

Compared to Cerberus who isn't interested in doing that they simply show up smash and grab and leave. TIM isn't interested in planetary conquest or the slow removal of an entire planet's population. TIM wants to control the Reapers and thus ensure Humanity's domination for generations. His actions are based completely around that. While the Reapers really aren't under any threat from the species of the galaxy. TIM and Cerberus is under a time schedule. Needing to get everything together before the other races stop him, before Reapers catch on to what he is doing and more importantly before Shepard finishes the Crucible and disrupts his plans.

 

I know just what you mean. For someone like you to completely ignore the glaring differences and threat level between Cerberus and Reapers simply because you want to find yet another thing to complain about. Really hurts the brain that someone could be that stupid. I mean this is pretty basic stuff here.

[Callidus Thorn]

Shouldn't this thread be locked by now?

 

It isn't really a discussion anymore. The same criticisms are brought up, only to be dismissed by denial, ignorance, and bad analogies(along with some occasional, and clearly unintended, hilarious irony). And now both sides are throwing insults at each other pretty consistently.

 

If any moderator stumbles across this, please, put this thread out of its misery.

[Natureguy85]

Only for the reapers.

 

Destroy, ergo The Breath scene is the Best ending of the 3 choices as it was in the original cut.

 

And for the writers as well.

 

Exactly. The breath scene is just a little thing they threw in so they could claim Shepard lived without actually having to work on it. Synthesis is clearly written to be the best ending.

 

 

That's true and that's one of the reasons why the original ending had this form.

 

No, it's not. Whatever ending a player likes, Synthesis was definitely written to be the "good ending" or "best ending." It gets the most flowery, hopeful language and is gated behind a high EMS requirement.

 

 

But they aren't just using brute force. If they did then no planet would be around and Anderson would have been dead on Earth before Shepard even reached the Council. But what they do is over whelm and break resistance of each planet. Land on it and then very slowly and methodically round up every single living person on the planet and process them. Laying waste to most cities leaving just enough behind to ensure the next cycle doesn't learn to much.

 

Compared to Cerberus who isn't interested in doing that they simply show up smash and grab and leave. TIM isn't interested in planetary conquest or the slow removal of an entire planet's population. TIM wants to control the Reapers and thus ensure Humanity's domination for generations. His actions are based completely around that. While the Reapers really aren't under any threat from the species of the galaxy. TIM and Cerberus is under a time schedule. Needing to get everything together before the other races stop him, before Reapers catch on to what he is doing and more importantly before Shepard finishes the Crucible and disrupts his plans.

 

I know just what you mean. For someone like you to completely ignore the glaring differences and threat level between Cerberus and Reapers simply because you want to find yet another thing to complain about. Really hurts the brain that someone could be that stupid. I mean this is pretty basic stuff here.

 

They are just using brute force but I see what you mean about them taking the time to get everyone versus Cerberus having one simple objective, but that's due to their difference in goals as well.  Although the weird thing with TIM is that he takes what Shepard needs to finish the Crucible, yet he needs the Crucible to take Control.

 

I didn't ignore the glaring differences in threat level. I'm the one who pointed them out. I don't need to find another thing to complain about because these are all lying in plain sight. Cerberus should not have been more prominent than the Reapers, end of story.

[Natureguy85]

We do not square off with a Reaper at the very end of the game. Not that Reaper Destroyer, not Harbinger and the Beam Run. We have instead a war of words with the Illusive Man, who has been the real threat, the one in more direct opposition to our goals, or so we may initially think.

 

 

Not only that, but the conversation with TIM occurs after the climax of the beam run, where the conversation with the Catalyst happens after a lull in the action, particularly if Anderson lived to have that final conversation.

[Reorte]

Cerberus should not have been more prominent than the Reapers, end of story.

The title should've been "Mass Effect 3: Cerby Goes Bananas."

[gothpunkboy89]

They are just using brute force but I see what you mean about them taking the time to get everyone versus Cerberus having one simple objective, but that's due to their difference in goals as well.  Although the weird thing with TIM is that he takes what Shepard needs to finish the Crucible, yet he needs the Crucible to take Control.

 

I didn't ignore the glaring differences in threat level. I'm the one who pointed them out. I don't need to find another thing to complain about because these are all lying in plain sight. Cerberus should not have been more prominent than the Reapers, end of story.

 

Save the two Reapers we run into were not using brute force. On Tuchunka the Reaper was attempting to alter the shroud so it would poison the planet and prevent the Krogan from being able to enter the war. The one on Rannoch used the Geth's own survival instinct to take control of them pinning the Quarian Fleet in their home system. Effectively removing two problems at once.

 

The only real form of blunt force they show besides the obvious fact they out class our war ships by a mile to start with is with the Turians. Who's entire fighting style involves over whelming force. In essence it was a show down between The Thing (Turian) and the Hulk (Reapers) and the Hulk won.  Against the Asari they are not direct fighter they are hit and run set ups. Reapers tried to play that game and kept coming up short so they started to ignore the hit and run attacks pressing forward forcing the Asari into a defensive position when they were not set up around to hold. That isn't brute force that is out thinking your opponent. It is why in online FPS you don't try to get into a long range fight with a sniper if you have an assault, SMG or shotgun. You instead close the gap between them were they no longer have the advantage and force them into a CQB were you now have the advantage.

 

TIM doesn't actually need the Crucible to take over that was the whole point of Sanctuary to learn how to control and manipulate the Reaper signal with the intent of controlling them. The data stolen was needed by Shepard to finish the Crucible and used to destroy the Reapers. There is no hint at it's capacity to control the Reapers. Other wise TIM would have been able to just construct his own and go after the Citadel without needing to alert the Reapers or anything.

 

TIM is from the very start of the game set up to be the dark reflection of Shepard. All the same high quality points about humanity but marred thanks to over whelming ambition and arrogance. That is something of a theme with Cerberus even in ME 1. ME 2 has this in spades because despite all the sweet words TIM says everything you see that they have had their hand in is terrible. ME 3 is the logical conclusion to that set up.

 

The fact you see Ceberus more then Reapers again doesn't harm anything. Cerberus is like the ME universe's version of the Romulans from Star Trek. Who are also dark mirror images of the Federation. Their clashing time and time again and the Federation coming out on top or creating a stale mate doesn't effect their over all threat level. Because with a clash of equals like that this sort of set up is expected.  How ever when you have one group that is clearly superior to the other in the case of Reaper or Borg having the lesser group clash with them and win time and time again does reduce their threat.

 

That is why I find the post cut scene after Priority Thessia so disconnected from what happens. Shepard and group is upset over the loss of Thessia yet during game play the squad is able to fight though Reaper controlled Thessia without a problem with all other Asari groups dying left and right around them. It just disconnects for me the ease of getting though while others are incapable of handling less.  Now things might have matched better if with the Asari help you break though to the Temple and after the events there you get a call from Joker that more Reapers were inbound and they need to leave now. With it showing a parting shot showing Dozens of Reapers entering the system and descending into the atmosphere effecitvly allowing them to break the Asari resistance. Then that would have synced up more between the ground fight and what is said afterwards.

[sveners]

Mass Effect Retrospective 50: The Final Affrontier

An amazing writeup and analysis. I doubt anyone from Bioware will get the message though, and I can't really blame them. It does not leave much credit to their work.

[gothpunkboy89]

An amazing writeup and analysis. I doubt anyone from Bioware will get the message though, and I can't really blame them. It does not leave much credit to their work.

 

Not really reading though that the person just wants to complain. Though if people are going to that I am starting to understand were the gross oversimplification of so many things are coming from.

[Iakus]

Not really reading though that the person just wants to complain. Though if people are going to that I am starting to understand were the gross oversimplification of so many things are coming from.

It's okay.  You can admit you didn't actually read it.

[gothpunkboy89]

It's okay.  You can admit you didn't actually read it.

 

I did the starting line sets the tone for the rest which is backed up by it all

 

Now that the Star Child has explained his nonsensical purpose of solving a problem by perpetrating the same problem on an even grander scale, he asks Shepard to pick a new solution from three available choices

 

 

Really lets you know what will come next and it is not disapointing

 

Like I said way back in part 35: Shepard had nothing to do with the Crucible. He didn’t find the ruins, uncover the plans, decipher them, or decide to use them. He didn’t build the Crucible. He didn’t know what it was for or what it would do. The entire plot turns on this thing, and it’s completely out of his hands aside from pushing the “On” button. He didn’t uncover the big mystery that made this possible. He didn’t get the answers and then confront the villain empowered by that knowledge. He just showed up and it was given to him by the only character with agency: The villain. Here at the end, all of his choices are described and constrained by a malevolent enemy whom he has no reason to trust.

 

 

 

Talk about an over simplification. Nothing Shepard uses is things he found, decipher, build or decided to be used. He is handed a code in ME 1 from a Prothean VI making claims with no support to back them up that it will some how magically stop a super advanced Reaper from being able to control the Citadel the very thing they created for a few moments. Which is accepted without question and used without hesitation. Even though Saren not even counting the Reapers leaving something like that behind as a booby trap is pretty well in line with him.

 

Cut to ME 2 were Shepard does this same thing multiple times accepting EDI even though it is known she  was programed by TIM. And could have been used for anything. Reaper IFF also falls into this category. TIM claims it would let them pass though the relay unharmed but it has never been tested. He makes use of it any ways. And yet both cases they work.

 

Both examples fall into the duce ex machina setups just as much as crucible does. Both are key set ups that allow the bad guy of the game to be beaten. Duce Ex Machinas are not inherently bad and having one doesn't actually reduce the quality of the story. Marvel's The Avengers is a generally well received movie. Yet they Duce Ex Machina the hell out of it. Shield just happens to launch 2 jets with the one holding the nuke surviving Fury's RPG. That nuke which Iron Man happens to intercept and steer into the portal. Which happens to have the power to completely destroy the ship/factory of super advanced alien life in one blow.

 

The final bit calling the Reapers a malevolent enemy is the most eye rolling statement ever. How child like must you be to be unable to tell the differences? How simplistic to do have to make it to allow that statement to be even vaugly valid in your own mind? Reapers do not harvest because they want to for the lolz. They do it because they see it as the only solution.

 

Police kill not because they want to but because it is the only solution for many cases. Are police malevolent? They kill the people hurting the safety of everyone. Not that long ago in Florida the state put out hunting season with a bounty on the invasive Boa Constrictor species. People went out by the dozen into the Everglades to hunt and kill them to be able to turn them in for money. Are those people malevolent? They kill a species that is very much so negatively effecting the entire ecosystem of the Everglades.

 

That person seems to thrive on over simplifications of even slightly complicated topics. Apparently anything more complicated then 1+1 is beyond their capability to grasp. Even something like 5+7 must be simplified to 1+1. Now if this is because they are unwilling or simply incapable who knows. But it is extremely funny how people keep trying to quote someone who dumbs everything down to the lowest possible level as some grand thinker.

 

I mean seriously there are many points that BioWare attempts to be deep and philosophical and many of those times they fall short of what seems to be their goal. But them compared to that person they seem like freaking geniuses.

[Reorte]

Not really reading though that the person just wants to complain.

And why would someone "just want to complain"?

[gothpunkboy89]

And why would someone "just want to complain"?

 

Several reason I can think of and non of them fall on the good scale of human nature.

 

Basically any emotion or mental state that makes a person think they know better then everyone else. And everything must be set up 110% exactly how they want it to be done. If it doesn't match up with that set up then the person making it (in this case BioWare) has no clue what they are doing. Are idiots and only they know exactly the correct thing that should have been done. Because the correct way is the way they see it.

 

A great example is getting into a discussion about the quality of the movie Batman Vs Superman Dawn of Justice. And the person who doesn't like the movie spends 3/4ths of the discussion complaining about things Snyder said outside the movie and not the movie it's self.

[AlanC9]

Because he didn't like the game?

I'm not quite sure how that leads to applying different standards to a game you didn't like from the ones applied to a game you like, but I've been watching people do that here for years, so it's definitely a thing.

[Iakus]

 

Talk about an over simplification. Nothing Shepard uses is things he found, decipher, build or decided to be used. He is handed a code in ME 1 from a Prothean VI making claims with no support to back them up that it will some how magically stop a super advanced Reaper from being able to control the Citadel the very thing they created for a few moments. Which is accepted without question and used without hesitation. Even though Saren not even counting the Reapers leaving something like that behind as a booby trap is pretty well in line with him.

 

Saren closed the Citadel arms, not Sovereign.  The code was to get past Saren's own overrides.  Not the Reapers.

 

Is it convenient that Vigil just happened to have one?  Sure.  But it could as easily have been justified by Shepard using a Spectre override.  This is little more than nit-picking

 

 

 

Cut to ME 2 were Shepard does this same thing multiple times accepting EDI even though it is known she  was programed by TIM. And could have been used for anything. Reaper IFF also falls into this category. TIM claims it would let them pass though the relay unharmed but it has never been tested. He makes use of it any ways. And yet both cases they work.

 

 

ME2's laughable railroading is well known to me, thanks.

 

 

The final bit calling the Reapers a malevolent enemy is the most eye rolling statement ever. How child like must you be to be unable to tell the differences? How simplistic to do have to make it to allow that statement to be even vaugly valid in your own mind? Reapers do not harvest because they want to for the lolz. They do it because they see it as the only solution.

And we're supposed to simply say "Thank you sir, may I have another?"

 

 

 

Police kill not because they want to but because it is the only solution for many cases. Are police malevolent? They kill the people hurting the safety of everyone. Not that long ago in Florida the state put out hunting season with a bounty on the invasive Boa Constrictor species. People went out by the dozen into the Everglades to hunt and kill them to be able to turn them in for money. Are those people malevolent? They kill a species that is very much so negatively effecting the entire ecosystem of the Everglades.
 

Replace "boa constrictors" with "the homeless" and tell me it wouldn't be considered malevolent.

 

 

 

That person seems to thrive on over simplifications of even slightly complicated topics. Apparently anything more complicated then 1+1 is beyond their capability to grasp. Even something like 5+7 must be simplified to 1+1. Now if this is because they are unwilling or simply incapable who knows. But it is extremely funny how people keep trying to quote someone who dumbs everything down to the lowest possible level as some grand thinker.
 

Or someone who sees through all the BS.

 

 

I mean seriously there are many points that BioWare attempts to be deep and philosophical and many of those times they fall short of what seems to be their goal. But them compared to that person they seem like freaking geniuses.

Then Bioware should stop with the philosophy.  They're really not very good at it.

[AlanC9]

Shouldn't this thread be locked by now?
 
It isn't really a discussion anymore. The same criticisms are brought up, only to be dismissed by denial, ignorance, and bad analogies(along with some occasional, and clearly unintended, hilarious irony). And now both sides are throwing insults at each other pretty consistently.
 
If any moderator stumbles across this, please, put this thread out of its misery.

That wouldn't help. Someone would just start another.

[Iakus]

That wouldn't help. Someone would just start another.

Can't stop the signal

[sveners]

Several reason I can think of and non of them fall on the good scale of human nature.

Basically any emotion or mental state that makes a person think they know better then everyone else. And everything must be set up 110% exactly how they want it to be done. If it doesn't match up with that set up then the person making it (in this case BioWare) has no clue what they are doing. Are idiots and only they know exactly the correct thing that should have been done. Because the correct way is the way they see it.

A great example is getting into a discussion about the quality of the movie Batman Vs Superman Dawn of Justice. And the person who doesn't like the movie spends 3/4ths of the discussion complaining about things Snyder said outside the movie and not the movie it's self.

Yes.

I'm pretty sure he wrote 50 long essays about Mass Effect in retrospect because he wasn't 100% satisfied and thought he could do better.

You have many good examples that dazzle with their relevance. Please give us more.

[gothpunkboy89]

Because he didn't like the game?

I'm not quite sure how that leads to applying different standards to a game you didn't like from the ones applied to a game you like, but I've been watching people do that here for years, so it's definitely a thing.

 

 

No liking the game is fine. No one has to like anything. How ever when you create a multi chapter "explanation" of why you don't like it and other people attempt to reference your work the logic behind your reasons should fall under scrutiny.

[ImaginaryMatter]

That wouldn't help. Someone would just start another.

 

[Insert Sovereign quote here]

[Monica21]

No liking the game is fine. No one has to like anything. How ever when you create a multi chapter "explanation" of why you don't like it and other people attempt to reference your work the logic behind your reasons should fall under scrutiny.

.... are you going to provide said scrutiny?

[gothpunkboy89]

Saren closed the Citadel arms, not Sovereign.  The code was to get past Saren's own overrides.  Not the Reapers.

 

Is it convenient that Vigil just happened to have one?  Sure.  But it could as easily have been justified by Shepard using a Spectre override.  This is little more than nit-picking

 

 

ME2's laughable railroading is well known to me, thanks.

 

And we're supposed to simply say "Thank you sir, may I have another?"

 

Replace "boa constrictors" with "the homeless" and tell me it wouldn't be considered malevolent.

 

Or someone who sees through all the BS.

 

Then Bioware should stop with the philosophy.  They're really not very good at it.

 

Yes Saren closed the arms. Sovereign then docked with the Citadel. If Saren closed it with the push of a button Shepard would be able to open it with the push of a button. Once Sovereign docks with the Citadel he takes control of it. Meaning that simple button push is no longer an option. So Shepard uploads the data file from Ilos into the Citadel's Master Control Unit to corrupt the Citadel's security protocols. Which in effect corrupts the Citadel systems Sovereign is now in control of. Which allows Shepard to not only open the arms but unlock the Relays around and clear the jaming that prevents Joker from contacting Shepard sooner. Things that Saren would be incapable of doing alone.

 

When the article complains about how Duce Ex Machina the Crucible is and how Shepard uses something without even vaugly understanding as a complaint. It isn't nitpicking anymore. It is showing them cherry picking what they want so they can continue to complain about something.

 

And yet you call ME 1 nit picking but you have issue with ME 2 pulling the exact same thing? Seems like cherry picking ignoring the blatant hypocrisy. When ME 1 does it then you are just nit picking. But when ME 2 or 3 does it then it is a terrible thing.  -rolls eyes-

 

Oh you don't have to like or agree with what the Reapers are doing. But to call them malevolent is only if you didn't pay attention to anything. Catalyst and the Reapers by extension aren't interested in causing harm. They only do so because they see it as the last and only option to prevent synesthetic from wiping out organics. Which is why the Catalyst even brings Shepard up and offers him the 4 choices. One of which results in the destruction of everything it has worked for.

 

Guy even complains about Shepard dying and not being sure if the Catalyst would honor what it said. And that is the point of the heroic sacrifice. The hero never knows if his actions saved everyone. They simply have faith their actions were the correct one.

 

Red vs Blue Season 13 Finale does a great little speech about this

https://youtu.be/7DOxqOnSWCE?t=8m43s

 

No he sees though no BS because they create their own by attempting to over simply everything to fit what they want rather then what really happens.

 

No they really don't need to stop with it. They fall short of what they are aiming for how ever the basis of what they mean are there and obvious enough for people to see what they are attempting and complete it themselves. Unless they are the author of that article and people that parrot the words there.

[AlanC9]

Well, that series is a bit of a mess; he doesn't seem willing to apply the same level of scrutiny to ME1 as he did to the later games. Gothpunkboy89 called him on this above. Of course, that's no way to actually defend ME3, and the writer really is aware that ME3 is just where the bill for the poor writing of the whole series came due.