305 réponses à ce sujet

[CoM Solaufein]

Yes, kill morrigan, best thing to happen to the series.

[AlanC9]

She demanded the archdemon soul for it's power while refusing to reveal her plans, refuse and she will leave despite the fact that she possibly already owned 2 favors to the warden(since she said after that Flemeth was defeated that she should have returned with the task of dealing with the darkspawns, which revealed to be empty words in my worldstate since she left before to fight the main horde), while the warden owned to her nothing because she and Flemeth never had any term of condition beyond to accept her in the party,yet she leave and in doing so abandon the companions and the whole world to burn, pretty much the opposite of saving the world that was obviously for my impression something of whom Morrigan never cared and most importantly never did.

Of course, since your Warden let her leave over the DR issue, your Warden also prioritizes some things over saving the workd from the Blight.

[Gaia300]

Of course, since your Warden let her leave over the DR issue, your Warden also prioritizes some things over saving the workd from the Blight.

I do not quite understand this post.
It is Morrigan who left after an year spent to deceive my warden, thus demonstreted that she didn't cared of the blight nor of the rest of the team.
She just used what was the best opportunity for her to try to manipulate the warden(she try to use everything, love&pride, glory&survival and try to convince the warden 3 times) before to call her a fool and leave.
Opinions should be bheind facts, ultimatly not only my warden cared to save the world from the blight more than Morrigan could ever dream since she was ready to pay also the ultimate price for it's salvation should Loghain fail (while Morrigan left) but also she didn't gambled it later by allowing Flemeth to take the very soul that caused the 5th blight.
All in all my warden acted like a selfless hero who saved the world from the blight and prevented Flemeth to absorb that soul, she has no regrets unlike Morrigan who had her regrets when the Inquisitor asked to her what she did during the blight which was abandon everyone and run away.

[AlanC9]

Yeah, you're right. The DR doesn't actually increase the likelihood of succcess at the mission. It means that you won't lose one of your wardens, but that won't be a problem unless another Blight starts next week.

[ExelArtz]

I wondered at that myself, the keep doesn't have anything on Golems of Amgarrak and nothing was mentioned DAI, I think the writers are claiming collective amnesia on this pretty cataclysmic event in the Deep Roads. I believe Morrigan will return as Morrithal (sorry it doesn't work like Flemmythal does it) and Solas himself I don't think will reappear until the 5th or 6th DA but we will battle his agents in DA4. 

I doubt we'll have to wait for the fight against solas his plan is contradicting and insane he holds a huge threat to leave it as is till da5 would be foolish he could'vesucceeded in his plans by then

[Gold Dragon]

Solas storyarc completion was already confirmed to happen in DA4.

[ModernAcademic]

If Morrigan doesn't perform the ritual, the Archdemon is vanquished, you die and the Blight ends.

 

If Morrigan performs the ritual, the Archdemon is vanquished, you live and the Blight ends.

 

How exactly is she lying and deceiving your Warden?

 

 

 

Her omission about the true reason for following you was not because she had a deadly trap set for you. It was, first, for reasons that don't affect your Warden AT ALL. And second, because your Warden wouldn't believe her if she told you how the Archdemon dies before Riordan told your Warden.

But AFTER you learn about the ultimate sacrifice, she ends her omission by revealing the truth to you. That was her intention from the start. So her silence was due to waiting for the right timing to present her reasons, not because she's a lying, cheating witch.

 

In her own words, she wants to preserve something that is worth preserving. We can't judge the importance of an Old God to Thedas yet. BW has still kept that matter shrouded in mystery. And she does disclose the consequences of the ritual - a child bearing the soul of an Old God - when you ask her to, meaning she respects the Warden. 

 

If some players want to have the right to kill her because they don't like her, then that's another matter entirely. But calling her a liar and deceitful to validate justifications for killing her is deplorable. Just say it as you mean: I don't like the character, I want her dead. No problem with that. Lots of people kill Zevran in camp or force companions to leave for the same reasons. Each player chooses how his Warden will relate to his companions. No argument there. Just don't try to justify your sentiment by implying she "deserves her fate at your hands" based on something she's not.

 

 

 

(Just for the record, I don't like Morrigan either. So I ignore her in camp and disagree with some of her opinions.)

[Secret Rare]

 

1

If Morrigan doesn't perform the ritual, the Archdemon is vanquished, you die and the Blight ends.

 

If Morrigan performs the ritual, the Archdemon is vanquished, you live and the Blight ends.

 

 

2

How exactly is she lying and deceiving your Warden?

 

 

 

3

Her omission about the true reason for following you was not because she had a deadly trap set for you. It was, first, for reasons that don't affect your Warden AT ALL. And second, because your Warden wouldn't believe her if she told you how the Archdemon dies before Riordan told your Warden.

But AFTER you learn about the ultimate sacrifice, she ends her omission by revealing the truth to you. That was her intention from the start. So her silence was due to waiting for the right timing to present her reasons, not because she's a lying, cheating witch.

 

 

4

In her own words, she wants to preserve something that is worth preserving. We can't judge the importance of an Old God to Thedas yet. BW has still kept that matter shrouded in mystery.

 

5

And she does disclose the consequences of the ritual - a child bearing the soul of an Old God - when you ask her to, meaning she respects the Warden. 

 

 

6

If some players want to have the right to kill her because they don't like her, then that's another matter entirely.

 

7

But calling her a liar and deceitful to validate justifications for killing her is deplorable.

 

8

Just say it as you mean: I don't like the character, I want her dead. No problem with that. Lots of people kill Zevran in camp or force companions to leave for the same reasons. Each player chooses how his Warden will relate to his companions. No argument there. Just don't try to justify your sentiment by implying she "deserves her fate at your hands" based on something she's not.

 

 

 

(Just for the record, I don't like Morrigan either. So I ignore her in camp and disagree with some of her opinions.)

 

1)

Inaccurate unless you want to conveniently forget the Warden commander ending and the Redemption ending.

 

 

2)

It seems to me that you are conveniently forget the points in which she lied(all detectable via toolset with proper notes of explanations of each conversations on each situation)with this but thou must logic.

The Ultimate sacrifice secret concerned my Warden far more than anything else and she tried to use it  as well as the fear of death to manipulate me before to scream fool all over my room and leave,this make her joining to the warden party to end the blight a blatant lie because she didn't wanted to stop the blight she wanted to use me for her own ends from the start which is different..

 

 

3)

Of course that's subjective why my warden wouldn't believe her if her source of informations was a legendary mage named Flemeth?

She waited on purpose the right timing to use the fear of death and the weakness of the warden to manipulate her,if she is refused in this 3rd favor

(because let us not forget that i already did 2 favors for her) she immediately leave, this demonstrate that she wanted just to use me for her own ends.

 

4) copy past from Riverdaleswhiteflash

Morrigan represents killing dragons as a bad thing because they are powerfully magical beings, and if I remember correctly she says that this is true regardless of how dangerous they are. And one can imagine she learned this worldview from Flemeth. I'm willing to agree with them that the Old Gods should be preserved, if and only if they tell me their rationale and give a better one than "magic should be preserved regardless of the danger."

I don't know that any of them can be trusted to want to preserve the Old Gods for the reason of preventing bad things from happening, when in each of their cases we have reason to believe that they want to preserve and encourage magic whether or not bad things happen as a result of it.

 

5)

Of course if we agree to disagree on the meaning of the word respect.

Did she respected my warden when she suggested to kill all my parents not once but twice?

Did she respected me when she called me a fool and abandoned me?

Did she respected me when she lied multiples times at Flemeth hut,during FLemeth quest (all evidence from the toolset conversations and relatives notes of description included) and didn't maintained her words on the first  grimoire?

Her revealing that the purpose of the ritual was to conceive a child was done because she had no choice on the situation,or do you truly believe that the warden is a moron that cannot try to figure out as for why she wanted to make sex with a male warden?!

If she had no choice this doesn't mean that she respected the warden since she revealed everything even if she is at -100 approval.

 

6)

I personally find outrageously stupid to want to kill a character for reason of personal taste, i don't want to kill her for that,i want to kill her for revenge because she lied,deceived,manipulated and in doing so ultimately betrayed my warden,what i did in WH she deserved.

Suggest to kill all the cities elves was not a smart move from her part since my char was obviously the daughter of one of them,thus make me want to finish her for revenge.

 

7)

Deplorable is try to label those like me who pursued the revenge path as players who wanted to kill her because of matters of personal tastes,no she wronged the prtoagonist and badly so and she will die for that the moment her plot armor will finally be disrupted.

 

8)

What i said is exactly what i meant don't try to change my words

I don't try to justify my sentiment based on what she is not,i justify my sentiment based exactly on what she is by her own admission

A liar and  thief and a deceiver who decided to manipulate the wrong person this time around.

She betrayed my warden and such betrayal was repaid in blood.

[German Soldier]

The reasons why she did it do not invalidate the effect it had which was the salvation of the world.

Abelas means sorrow, first and foremost we should remember the name of those who are killed under the false pretence of the "salvation of the world" (of whom i strongly disagree, to me she didn't saved anyone she just murdered someone)

Indeed so much this.
The threat for the world was first and foremost the breach not Corypheus and only the Inquisitor with the Orb could have closed it not Morrigan.
In order to gain the Orb the Inquisitor only need to defeat Cory there was no urgency to kill him completly he could have been imprisoned like before and it would have worked the same.
Second Cory had only his dragon as an ally at that point he didn't had any chance so even without the well of sorrow and a dragon to help he would have been killed with the red lyrium dragon forever.
Lore wise and gameplay wise he is not so strong and we had our informations about his ability in battle from Hawke who already defeated him in DA2 when s/he was with few companions not an entire army.
So i also fail to see where Morrigan saved the world....at best one can argue that she helped if she drink from the well but the one who saved the world was the Inquisitor but that's not different than what everyone else (Cassandra, Cullen, Varric , Stroud, Leliana, Alistair ecc...)did
Hawke and the warden on here lies the abyss saved the inquisitor and in doing so they provide an hope for the world, Morrigan was just the arrogant mage as usual who wanted the power of the well of sorrow for herself and didn't cared about the consequences as wll as the world.
Destroy the well and ask to Abelas should have been an option or allow Solas to provide the info could have been possible or just imprison Cory like the GW did in the past isolate him from others blighted creatures and then open a breach in his chest.
But please no ,Morrigan never saved Thedas and never wanted to save Thedas like she demonstrate in Origins if her last whims is refused, there she wanted to put the world in danger with a reborn old god soul that was also the prey as well as the plan of her mother the Evanuris.
Morrigan isn't written to be an hero and neither a villain.

[AlanC9]

1)

Of course that's subjective why my warden wouldn't believe her if her source of informations was a legendary mage named Flemeth?

What your Warden would have done isn't the issue here. We're talking about Morrigan's motivations, right? It's what she thinks your Warden would do that's governing this, and Morrigan's not very good at judging such things. Which is natural, considering her background.

Did she respected me when she lied multiples times at Flemeth hut,during FLemeth quest (all evidence from the toolset conversations and relatives notes of description included) and didn't maintained her words on the first  grimoire?

Could you post some of that toolset evidence? At the moment I don't have enough gigs on my gaming rig to reinstall it or I'd look for myself
 

I personally find outrageously stupid to want to kill a character for reason of personal taste, i don't want to kill her for that,i want to kill her for revenge because she lied,deceived,manipulated and in doing so ultimately betrayed my warden,what i did in WH she deserved.

I'm a little confused about what you're asking for here. You're not going to be playing the Warden again. Are you looking for the DA4 PC to be allowed to take revenge for something that happened to a PC from three games earlier?

Deplorable is try to label those like me who pursued the revenge path as players who wanted to kill her because of matters of personal tastes,no she wronged the prtoagonist and badly so and she will die for that the moment her plot armor will finally be disrupted.

I still don't see how your PC was wronged. Your PC doesn't have a right to know everything about Morrigan's plans, nor a right to her assistance in the final battle. A couple of lies, sure, but if you want to kill everyone in Thedas who lies to your PC, you'll be murdering people all day.

[Secret Rare]

What your Warden would have done isn't the issue here. We're talking about Morrigan's motivations, right? It's what she thinks your Warden would do that's governing this, and Morrigan's not very good at judging such things. Which is natural, considering her background.


Could you post some of that toolset evidence? At the moment I don't have enough gigs on my gaming rig to reinstall it or I'd look for myself
 

I'm a little confused about what you're asking for here. You're not going to be playing the Warden again. Are you looking for the DA4 PC to be allowed to take revenge for something that happened to a PC from three games earlier?


I still don't see how your PC was wronged. Your PC doesn't have a right to know everything about Morrigan's plans, nor a right to her assistance in the final battle. A couple of lies, sure, but if you want to kill everyone in Thedas who lies to your PC, you'll be murdering people all day.

 

1

If someone wish to shift the focus subject directly to Morrigan it is still not valid to me,she had plenty of occasion to reveal something about the Ultimate sacrifice by using as her source of knowledge Flemeth which was already renowned in the whole nation for her knowledge, yet she did not on purpose to use the perfect timing in order to manipulate the warden at Redcliffe not because she was insecure or shy or whatever but because she wanted to wait on purpose to see the warden unprepared.

Afterall she has no problem in try to convince the warden that her mother use to steal the body of her daughters as soon as she recieve the grimoire yet she has a problem in telling me about the Ultimate sacrifice?!?what kind of contrived logic is this?

She withholds the knowledge of the US and the DR on purpose even when the warden ask certain questions during the course of the game.

She always reveal what it is convenient to her.

 

 

2

You can either digging on the DAO archive on the toolset section to find it since it was already posted or you can either install the Toolset load the  single player module from the default demo module and find all the conversations of the main game enriched with descriptions by the writers,in particular the conversation between Flemeth and the Warden before of their confrontation(which pretty much completely nullified what Misterjb said in regard of Flemeth quest).

Don't ask it to me since i don't have DAO installed since months and it will require me time to do that at best i can try to find the page on the DAO section and made a link.

that's easy to do when following the nexus forum

http://forums.nexusm...-files-to-open/

As for Morrigan lying in her hut after Ostagar there is  not even the need of the toolset since that was evident she lied to the warden when the warden asked to her why her mother helped him/her.

 

3

The topic was not meant to ask another "bring back the HoF to hunt  Morrigan"

If Morrigan would appear another time into DA4 or subsequent games just to being reckless in following the authority of the PC for her own gain when she is in my party like she did with the Inquisitor  when she disobeyed on the well of sorrow quest with the result of forcing a certain outcome,in this case being the inquisitor enslaved or give to her more power without allowing the Inquisitor to speak to Abelas about Corypheus power(because you know he was killed before that the opportunity was even presented),then i'm asking a way to finish her for good as i'm tired of those kind of narrative blackmails in which she is always involved.

In absence of the evident option to be able to dismiss her,since she is not dismissable in DAI and neither i can say to her to leave Skyhold despite the fact that she is not a companion and not even recognized as an advisor of the Inquisitor

 

4

No?

Of course that's subjective to me as well as many others players she wronged the Warden in DAO you have only to dig old topic like this

http://forum.bioware...r-what-exactly/

Did Morrigan had the right to deceive the Warden and lie to them for the whole year?nTo use them for her own benefit against Flemeth and try to manipulate them in Redcliffe,because that was manipulation and then leave with that smile on her face?

Revenge is revenge and she deserved all of it.

[AlanC9]

Shift focus? Dude, what are you talking about? The whole topic is ehether our next PC should be allowed to murder her. How can it not be about her?

1
You can either digging on the DAO archive on the toolset section to find it since it was already posted or you can either install the Toolset load the  single player module from the default demo module

Like I just said, I don't have enough gigs left on my PC to do that.

In absence of the evident option to be able to dismiss her,since she is not dismissable in DAI and neither i can say to her to leave Skyhold despite the fact that she is not a companion and not even recognized as an advisor of the Inquisitor

I agree. You should have been allowed to do that, and then automatically lose the final battle. The PC shoukd have more opportunities to fail.
 

Did Morrigan had the right to deceive the Warden and lie to them for the whole year?nTo use them for her own benefit against Flemeth and try to manipulate them in Redcliffe,because that was manipulation and then leave with that smile on her face?
Revenge is revenge and she deserved all of it.

Look, I get that you're really into murdering people -- hopefully just in RPGs -- but where's the line between ordinary lying and deserves-to-be-murdered lying?

[Secret Rare]

Shift focus? Dude, what are you talking about? The whole topic is ehether our next PC should be allowed to murder her. How can it not be about her?


Like I just said, I don't have enough gigs left on my PC to do that.


I agree. You should have been allowed to do that, and then automatically lose the final battle. The PC shoukd have more opportunities to fail.
 

Look, I get that you're really into murdering people -- hopefully just in RPGs -- but where's the line between ordinary lying and deserves-to-be-murdered lying?

nvm

[ModernAcademic]

Repeating what I said above:

 

If some players want to have the right to kill her because they don't like her, then that's another matter entirely. But calling her a liar and deceitful to validate justifications for killing her is deplorable.

 

Just say it as you mean: I don't like the character, I want her dead. No problem with that. Lots of people kill Zevran in camp or force companions to leave for the same reasons. Each player chooses how his Warden will relate to his companions. No argument there.

 

Just don't try to justify your sentiment by implying she "deserves her fate at your hands" based on something she's not.

[Secret Rare]

Repeating what I said above:

If some players want to have the right to kill her because they don't like her, then that's another matter entirely. But calling her a liar and deceitful to validate justifications for killing her is deplorable.

Just say it as you mean: I don't like the character, I want her dead. No problem with that. Lots of people kill Zevran in camp or force companions to leave for the same reasons. Each player chooses how his Warden will relate to his companions. No argument there.

Just don't try to justify your sentiment by implying she "deserves her fate at your hands" based on something she's not.

Odd i believe to have already saw this same post.
Morrigan is a liar and a promiscuos thief by her own admission in conversation with the Warden ,who decided to lie and attempt to manipulate the warden to gain an archdemon soul who generated the 5th blight , suggested pointless killing of innocents and deceived an entire clan and stole that book and even killed that elf in the back without no order from the Inquisitor.
So i'm still of the opinion that she is more than worthy to die without make me feel evil for it.
It is odd that Morrigan hersefl mention her own bad reputation in DAI as a witch of the wilds yet i described her for what she is not?

[Gaia300]

Could you post some of that toolset evidence? At the moment I don't have enough gigs on my gaming rig to reinstall it or I'd look for myself

I just recently stumbled in an old topic (i do not often post here in the forum i'm more a reader) i think some of that Toolset description of the real grimoire quest are there.

Oddly enough even if the topic was very old the OP figured out something
about the relation(with few mistakes) between Fen Harel and Flemeth.
Here you go.
http://forum.bioware...r-from-toolset/

[DreamSever]

Kill off morrigan? Not if my warden is still breathing

[diaspora2k5]

Maybe not killed off, but I would like to have a game that makes little to no reference to previous characters at all. Thedas is a big place with lots of people, I'd like to explore it without having to get bogged down with cameos.

[Andrew Lucas]

She is in one game and a half and one DLC. How does that reasonably qualify as over-exposure?
 
There are a great many numbers of Dragon Age characters who have been in multiple games, comic books, even an anime movie making them far more deserving of the "writer's pet title."

So this.

I'd rather see a mention where she's alive and well with her family, (Kieran & Warden), than to be brought back just so that she could die.

Pointless.

[Ryzaki]

Maybe not killed off, but I would like to have a game that makes little to no reference to previous characters at all. Thedas is a big place with lots of people, I'd like to explore it without having to get bogged down with cameos.

 

This.

 

I just want them gone at this point. Bugger off so we can meet new people who don't have  to share the spotlight with those who already had their time.

[Secret Rare]

http://forum.bioware...r-from-toolset/

Far from being the ultimate truth they just demonstrate that my opinion on  Morrigan during the  Flemeth quest  is also  corroborated by those notes.

So clearly Morrigan betrayed Flemeth and used the warden as a pawn to kill her and as those notes said she lied to the Warden.

She by herself admit in WH that she knew that Flemeth wasn't in search of immortality so i guess that she wanted her death also to get rid of the competition

 

So this.

I'd rather see a mention where she's alive and well with her family, (Kieran & Warden), than to be brought back just so that she could die.

Pointless.

I would rather see that she never appear again but if this wont happen and instead like in DAI she will force a decision to the protagonist like she did with the well of sorrow by killing Abelas without allowing the Inquisitor to talk to him about Corypheus,than this time around the player should be allowed to engage a combat.

 

 

This.

 

I just want them gone at this point. Bugger off so we can meet new people who don't have  to share the spotlight with those who already had their time.

I share the same opinion of Korva in regard of this,they don't want to get rid of Morrigan off screen they want to build her as this uber mage that have to interfere in subsequent games with the presence of plot immunity and that just like Inquisition cannot be removed from the party/group.

To this day i do not understand why she was there in this game or why she wasn't removable from Skyhold i had Solas for the temple of Mythal which was far more expert than Morrigan on elven history,i didn't need her since i had a far more expert mage than her.

If she don't use the well of sorrow she also follow the Inquisitor to the Altar of Mythal with no option for the Inquisitor to tell her to leave.

[Helmetto]

I've been pretty happy about old characters showing up again for the massive party / **** show that is Dragon Age, but the idea of making a character show up for the sole purpose of flat out murdering them is what I disliked about our trip to the Fade in DAI.

 

Like, yeah, maybe you'll GET the option to kill them, but you won't be making that choice based on how you feel, but on simple pragmatics because your character holds no connection to either of them. I mean, some people do, but it's a roleplaying game, and what it boils down to is how your character feels about ****, not the last guy you played.

 

Which is exactly what DA4 faces: The Inquisitor can say, "bluh bluh I'll prove you wrong Solas," but the new character I make might be Some Jerk who feels no obligation to keep such a promise. Likewise, maybe you feels super ultra betrayed by Solas, but Some Hero decides to take pity and spare him.

[German Soldier]

I've been pretty happy about old characters showing up again for the massive party / **** show that is Dragon Age, but the idea of making a character show up for the sole purpose of flat out murdering them is what I disliked about our trip to the Fade in DAI.

Like, yeah, maybe you'll GET the option to kill them, but you won't be making that choice based on how you feel, but on simple pragmatics because your character holds no connection to either of them. I mean, some people do, but it's a roleplaying game, and what it boils down to is how your character feels about ****, not the last guy you played.

Which is exactly what DA4 faces: The Inquisitor can say, "bluh bluh I'll prove you wrong Solas," but the new character I make might be Some Jerk who feels no obligation to keep such a promise. Likewise, maybe you feels super ultra betrayed by Solas, but Some Hero decides to take pity and spare him.

Indeed
Why the quiz should care about Alistair or Loghain or Stroud and Hawke?
Players decide to save the one of whom they prefer from the previous game with an absolute disconnection with their current character.
Also Bioware must stop to bring back Alistair and Loghain just to want to kill them, they can die 3 times to this point is ridicolous.
With Leliana and Morrigan instead they use plot immunity see that event of the temple in Dao for Leli and Wh as well as the fighting scene between the 2 dragons for Morrigan ....

[nightscrawl]

^ That doesn't hold true for everyone. I have a perfectly acceptable RP (for my Inquisitor) reason for selecting Stroud over Hawke, and I would do so even if it were Alistair, my Warden's boyfriend.

 

Just because some people consider their own preference for, or dislike of Hawke (or Alistair or Loghain) when making the choice doesn't mean that everyone does.

[GoldenGail3]

I'd be sad if Morrigan ever died....

(Just saying...)