Oddly I can't see killing the mother of my warden's son.. Morrigan leaves a lot to be desired in DA:O but, I found the need for her strong magic late in DA:O. As far as DA:I I'm still struggling through my third play through but,still wouldn't want to kill Solas without just cause.
My Inquisitor is like my GW in DA:O and won't kill without just reason. Neither is a homicidal maniac.
My Inquisitor is like my GW in DA:O and won't kill without just reason. Neither is a homicidal maniac.
My warden was not an homicidal maniac since the only one whom she attacked was Morrigan,and for perfectly legit reasons,but i'm also not
negating that I as a player did felt satisfaction in gutting her so i don't feel any need like the Op to want to do more,i perfectly fine if she just disappear from the events of the franchise.
Ok, so, your Inquisitor wants to destroy the only known source of knowledge on how to defeat Corypheus.
Morrigan wants to save it.
Ergo, she is the one who should die because she did not went along with the plan of destroying the only resource we have and wing it afterwards?
Seems to me, Morrigan just saved the world.
Akiza, There are times when I felt like putting Morrigan to the sword but,I couldn't justify it.. Now if she had Elven blood on her hands I'm sure my elf warden would run her through. He/she will wreak justice on those that harms his/her people as Vaughan, Loghain and Howe found out.
Now,now that's an exaggeration
Another badly executed quest. Solas states that he believes the Well must be preserved but that he doesn't want Morrigan to do it. But then he flatly refuses you when you ask him to do it - without any explanation why and despite him clearly being the most qualified, regardless of what Morrigan claims. Nobody thinks this reaction odd, considering he makes out like you have suggested something obscene and insulting to him, to the point where he will take genuine offence if you ask again. Its ridiculous, as is the fact that despite being Elven and interested in history, he apparently can only translate certain bits and pieces of the writings, and never mentions any of the stuff that Morrigan claims to have read and left out.
You could have destroyed the Well, or at least let Abelas do it - it is even stated that the Well is powering the Eluvian, or rather that its the key to operating it. So you've solving both problems at once. Corypheus arriving is no issue - the scene takes place right before the final showdown when your party is easily a match for him. His army is losing badly because his forces have been so depleted, and your yours have swelled to immense size. Your advisors are brimming with confidence before this mission, because the tide has so heavily turned in your favour.
People will always make the 'The Ends justify the means' argument, but the game doesn't support there being any such need at this point. You have beaten Corypheus this adventure to the Wilds has cost him the last of his forces, and if he hung around the Dragon would likely be slain (you do have all your forces here after all), leaving him vulnerable even if your characters are unaware of that. With the Venatori quitting the field and Grey Wardens lost to him, he is running short of (what are effectively) respawn points in the region. There is simply no need to accept Morrigan's outrageously suspicious arguments and accept this 'But thou Must; logic for an artifact you know nothing about and which you didn't even know existed half an hour ago.
Not to mention the less than commendable work ethic of Abelas and his men, who eternally guard the well... until someone powerful is nearly at the thing, when he just says 'Forget this, I'm off to Vegas
- you handle the well, person I've just met'..
SO no Morrigan didn't save the world she just wanted the well of sorrow for personal purposes.
Up this was also a post from Marshal Morjarty which i personally found to be the always well elaborated on this board.
So pretty much i don't think that the well of sorrow was necessary at all to kill Corypheus,the writers could have come up with something very simple like allow Abelas to destroy the well and then ask to him directly on how to deflect the effective immortality,he was also an high priest of Mythal sure he did know those things.I didn't find appealing to let Morrigan absorb all those powers just to know one single thing
A few things wrong with this logic.
First, without the Well of Sorrows, you have no reason to believe that killing the dragon will leave Corypheus vulnerable. At this time, all you know is that your enemy is unkillable and, even if destroyed, will just keep coming back again and again. He could even just wait a couple of centuries and return then after you are long gone.
Second, you are underestimating Corypheus. Sure, gameplay wise his fight is easy but lorewise he is exceedingly powerful, being one of the most powerful mages in Tevinter in the pinnacle of its power, having acess to Blight Magic, Ancient Elvhen Magic, Red Lyrium and a thousand years of experience. There is no guarantee your party can defeat him.
Furthermore, his dragon can reach you and aid him a lost faster than your army can.
Finally, he comes dangerously close to tearing down the Veil and destroying the world in the endgame. Without the Well of Sorrows, you have no idea how to kill him and no dragon to help you.
Third, Abelas has already stated that he doesn't care whether you or Corypheus wins. He may be willing to let you partake from the Well if you showed respect to Mythal but that doesn't mean he is going to be giving you information even if he had acess to it which we don't know if he does.
And, before drinking the Well of Sorrows, we don't even know how it can help us. We know it has a power and that it might be used against Corypheus but we don't know it's just a matter of gaining the right intel.
1 nope i meant that she can interfere with the death of the old gods (the others) simply my passing this knowledge forward.
So?
In order for this to objectively mean she should die, one should first objectively determine that the Old Gods should all be killed.
Kieran is hardly a destroyer of worlds.
2 Varel is an affiliate to the Wardens of Amaranthine and of the Warden Commander pretty much a different situation,you don't need to undertake the joining to be considered a GW (Anders is no more a GW even if he undertake the joining) Morrigan isn't in a similar situation.
A Grey Warden is a state of being, not an affiliation to an organization. Grey Wardens are people who are not Darkspawn but survive despite having the Taint within them. So, yes, you do need to undertake the Joining to be considered a Warden. Or what, is the whole staff of Vigil's Keep Wardens too?
But hey, if you really want to categorize Grey Wardens has anyone who helps the actual Grey Wardens or knows their secrets, then Morrigan, having traveled with the HOF for longer than Varel helped him, is actually more of a Warden than he is.
3 Morrigan opinions on WH are pretty much way similar to Solas,she advocate world chaning events while messing with eluvians and also tried to be in full control of an archdemon essence,seem to me that i have more than enough evidence to end the threat that she represent for the world
Except, you know, Morrigan actually ever doing anything that constitutes as a threat to the world.
Really, all she does is say "Change is coming to the world, maybe for the better". She doesn't speak of bringing about this change, or stopping it or profitting for it.
Solas actually states that he is going to destroy the world.
One is not even comparable to the other.
and yes she actually killed in person Abelas for power,if this isn't "harmufl for others..."
Coming from our PCs who kill, at least, a dozen people per day...
With that being said, Morrigan kills Abelas because he was about to destroy the only resource against Corypheus the Inquisition had.
She saved the world. You're welcome.
4 she lied During FLemeth quest do you want the dialogue branches of the Toolset of DAO?
Warden: "why your mother sent you here if she intend to possess your body?"Morrigan "I do not know"it was a lie end of the story.
Nope. If you had asked "Why did your mother sent you with me?" and she answered "I do not know." that would be lie.
But what you ask is "Why did your mother sent you here if she intends to possess your body?"
At this point, you add to the sentence and the question. That being "Flement wanting to possess Morrigan."
Therefore, Morrigan could answer why Flemeth sent her with the Warden. To give birth to the reincarnation of Urthemiel.
However, Morrigan can't answer why Flementh sent her with the Warden if she wants to possess her body because she doesn't know why she would risk her future body.
Do you understand?
5 i don't understand?
When the dark ritual was refused she left, this demonstrate that she inserted herself into the group to obtain the OGB, i do not understand as for why i should not pursue the revenge path which is also something included in WH by the writers a prefectly legit pathAlso she did not maintained her words what sh said to my warden when i granted to her the first grimoire into the tower magesMorrigan: "If you will find this, with this i will be more useful to you"Did she helepd in Denerim? answer no hence i considered it as a betrayal.(and as i said plot armor allowed her to survive the encounter).All the others companions are quite predictable in their behaviour,Leliana,Shale,AListair i already knew what they wanted and what they would have react to some decisions they were not a surprise,Morrigan on the other hand left on the eve of battle because i did not agree to gamble the fate of the word for her sake?Seriously and you are coming to told to those players that they shouldn't opt for the revenge path and that there is not betrayal,especially after those players helped her?Just No,you can speak for yourslef for your path not for mine.
You have, of course, the right to feel however, you please about Morrigan.
I am merely putting things into perspective.
Someone who has done absolutely nothing but help you through everything, never once doing anything to hinder you asks you for a favor and then you refuse. At this point, that person considers she should no longer risk her life for someone who clearly doesn't trust her or wants to help so she "betrays" this person by walking away, doing absolutely no harm to them.
as for match between ideologies,i only want to kill those who i believe are a threat that must be eliminated.
And in order for you to believe Morrigan is a threat, you have to be against her ideology because she has literally never done anything that would place others in danger.
for what she tried to do in Redcliffe
Giving her opinion? She will freaking go into the Fade to fight a demon to save the soul of a small child if asked.
what she did and said in WH
She didn't do anything in WH beyond stealing a book and giving her opinion again.
That's grounds for killing people?
As for the whole "Morrigan saved the world by preserving the well of sorrow i don't agree with that " and i already said why
Do you mean this?
"she would have find another sources of informations to kill Corypheus or at least his dragon, who was already losing badly at that point."
That is not a compelling argument. That is just saying we should destroy our only resource and hope we can wing it afterwards. Effectivelly gambling with the fate of the world.
So basically "I don't like character kill it" I pretty sure character who deserve to die more Zevran, Sten, Cole, Blackwall, Anders all murderers ok we can punish all except Cole. Isabella is not good, and I like Isabella but come on it's just dame a book. Merrill deserver high five with chair in the face, but everyone love puppy eyes.
Solas will be important no mater what you want. Sorry you didn't like but Solas and Morrigan is my 2 most favourite characters.
Wall of pictures.
As far as i'm concerned Morrigan didn't save anyone much less the "entire world" she just murdered in cold blood someone at his back,maybe is an impression of mine but you seem to be a little biased in regard of this character since you're also one of those who was advocating for the Dark ritual to be canon by removing player agency into another topic.The Inquisitor as well as others members of the inquisition (Dorian,Cassandra,Solas)call her for that, in fact since she enter into the temple she was obsessed with this artifact and it was for a power desire,not because she wanted to save the world,Morrigan never cared to save the world (otherwise she would have not abandoned my warden either).If Abelas would have not been killed we do not know if he would have provide the info about COrypheus immortality,also maybe Solas would have helped us to discover this without the well of sorrow,since it was in his best interest to have COrypheus dead and the Orb recovered.All in all pretendI try to be impartial on the characters but if they do something bad then they do something bad.So, if is bad for the Warden to attack Morrigan in WH because the warden thought that her death was in the best interest of the world ,same should be applied to Morrigan who killed Abelas because it was in her best interest to possess the well of sorrow,since she did not do this to allow the Inquisitor to drink but more likely to allow herself to drink from it,otherwise if her interest was to save the world she wouldn't ave been so upset that the well was handled by someone else.
The reasons why she did it do not invalidate the effect it had which was the salvation of the world.
Also, it is worth noting to Morrigan has no interest in power, she seeks to preserve ancient knowledge and mage for their own sake.
I rather Morrigan just bugger off never to return honestly. Enough with the DAO past characters.
As for Solas given his cray cray plans I expect we should be able to kill him.
I've wanted to kill Morrigan pretty much since Lothering, and the lack of that option as well as her being hamfisted into Inquisition p*ssed me off to no end. While I agree that never hearing from her again would almost be preferable, that is not going to happen. Until Solas came along, she was the #1 writers' pet, and they're not building her as this ZOMGWTFBBQ 2k3wl4u ubermage just to drop her off the radar. Unfortunately.
Being able to kill both her and Solas, permanently and without the story labelling me as evil for not kissing up to the writers' pets, would pretty much be a pre-requisite for my continued interest in the franchise at this point. Unlike with Morrigan, I kinda liked Solas pre-Trespasser despite his flaws, but the DLC reversed that completely.
So just because you don't like them they are both "writers pets" and have to die?
The writers have their plans for them you can be sure about that. Don't like it, don't play it.
Everyone has favourites and NPCs they hate or don't like. And Bioware can and will do with them what they want and not what we want. And there are people who like Morrigan and/or Solas, surprise.
So just because you don't like them they are both "writers pets" and have to die?
The writers have their plans for them you can be sure about that. Don't like it, don't play it.
Everyone has favourites and NPCs they hate or don't like. And Bioware can and will do with them what they want and not what we want. And there are people who like Morrigan and/or Solas, surprise.
Agreed. Morrigan and Solas are both strong characters that have added a lot to the Dragon Age story. I think it's a little childish for people to say that they have to die just because they don't like them.
Personally I would like Bioware to just continue creating the best story they can.
1 So?
In order for this to objectively mean she should die, one should first objectively determine that the Old Gods should all be killed.Kieran is hardly a destroyer of worlds.
2A Grey Warden is a state of being, not an affiliation to an organization. Grey Wardens are people who are not Darkspawn but survive despite having the Taint within them. So, yes, you do need to undertake the Joining to be considered a Warden. Or what, is the whole staff of Vigil's Keep Wardens too?
But hey, if you really want to categorize Grey Wardens has anyone who helps the actual Grey Wardens or knows their secrets, then Morrigan, having traveled with the HOF for longer than Varel helped him, is actually more of a Warden than he is.
3Except, you know, Morrigan actually ever doing anything that constitutes as a threat to the world.
Really, all she does is say "Change is coming to the world, maybe for the better". She doesn't speak of bringing about this change, or stopping it or profitting for it.
Solas actually states that he is going to destroy the world.
One is not even comparable to the other.
Coming from our PCs who kill, at least, a dozen people per day...
With that being said, Morrigan kills Abelas because he was about to destroy the only resource against Corypheus the Inquisition had.
She saved the world. You're welcome.
Nope. If you had asked "Why did your mother sent you with me?" and she answered "I do not know." that would be lie.
But what you ask is "Why did your mother sent you here if she intends to possess your body?"
At this point, you add to the sentence and the question. That being "Flement wanting to possess Morrigan."
Therefore, Morrigan could answer why Flemeth sent her with the Warden. To give birth to the reincarnation of Urthemiel.
However, Morrigan can't answer why Flementh sent her with the Warden if she wants to possess her body because she doesn't know why she would risk her future body.
Do you understand?
You have, of course, the right to feel however, you please about Morrigan.
I am merely putting things into perspective.
Someone who has done absolutely nothing but help you through everything, never once doing anything to hinder you asks you for a favor and then you refuse. At this point, that person considers she should no longer risk her life for someone who clearly doesn't trust her or wants to help so she "betrays" this person by walking away, doing absolutely no harm to them.
And in order for you to believe Morrigan is a threat, you have to be against her ideology because she has literally never done anything that would place others in danger.
Giving her opinion? She will freaking go into the Fade to fight a demon to save the soul of a small child if asked.
She didn't do anything in WH beyond stealing a book and giving her opinion again.
That's grounds for killing people?
So just because you don't like them they are both "writers pets" and have to die?
The writers have their plans for them you can be sure about that. Don't like it, don't play it.
Giving her opinion? She will freaking go into the Fade to fight a demon to save the soul of a small child if asked.
i would like to add With high disapproval ,unlike Wynne she doesn't want to save Connor
She doesn't give her opinion at Redcliffe,she tried to manipulate the warden only to insult him/her later if the ritual is refused
No offence but Morrigan saving the world is just part of your personal headcanon
DAO
Based on her attitude in DAO she really can't be considered grey. In order to be grey the character usually has to be black to some extent to achieve a greater white. Illusive man was grey because he murderd and worse, all for sake of humanity. So a somewhat noble goal is needed to be considered grey. Also there is another sort of grey like Isabela and Zevran. Being a little black for pleasure, survival etc.. but there is always a limit like slavery or genocide. Morrigan on the other hand cares for no one but herself. She shows no sympathy for anyone and doesn't consider any action as too evil and actually enjoys destruction and death. She disapproves if you decide to help the village of redcliffe and approves if you abandon them. She likes see the circle anulled(and to kill all those children for no reason other than the lulz) and disapproves if you agree to help them. She dissapporves if you destroy the anvil and approves if you save it. She approves greatly if you decide to help werewolves genocide the elves. She also approves if you defile the ahses.she approves if you kill the merchant in Lothering or let the demon go into that girl
Basically she is the only party member that approves of EVERY SINGLE evil action the character takes and most of the times shows her satisfaction by commenting on it. She openly agrees with the tevinter slaver when he says that he'll kill all the elves nearby to give more power to the warden if the warden lets the slaver go. Most importantly she's been fooling the warden all along and have been planning to use the warden all along, for her own ritual and selfishness. Morrigan is not grey, even if you gonna cosnider her one she is basically 99% black and 1% white. And this 1% is she not wanting to kill everyone on sight, that's it.
If she appear to be softened in DAO over the course of the game is only for the Warden ,but she still remains the same Morrigan in DAO when it comes to everything else.
DAI
Kill Abelas in order to stop him from destroyng the well of sorrow was an unecessary cruelty,in order to stop the casting of a spell of a mage you don't need to kill him.
Morrigan killed Abelas because she is incapable to understand others or care for them unless they are the only two optional characters that are close to her.
-snip-
Unlike Morrigan SOlas in trespasser did answered to the questions as i did know what to expect,with Morrigan no since she did not answered (Wh non ritual version) not even at 1 single question.
I don't remember to have said that Solas is a writer pet since he is a new character,the option to want to kill him arise from the fact that may be no alternative if he will insist on his planAs for Morrigan yup since as i stated DAO,Wh,DAI and now the whole inheritor thing and be the 2nd FLemeth?How this is not being a writer pet?
Concerning the writers pets (plural): this was based on Korvas post. However, even with Morrigan - and I must admit I am not really a fan of her, the writers have plans for her and Solas. And there is a good change everything that happened with Morrigan was already planned years ago by David Gaider. So only because she is a character that always connects somehow with our game protagonists and the story does not mean she is a writers pet but instead that she is important to the story. But it doesn't matter, you can like her or not, she really is important to the story in some ways that we can only guess and we will very likely see more of her in the future.
And about Solas: we will see in DA4 what options we will get to deal with him. Maybe it is not possible to kill him but other ways to prevent his plans - or maybe we can't prevent it and everything will be changed. Or maybe we can redeem him - at least in Trespasser we get the option to try to change his mind, doesn't mean it will work. But we don't know yet. I do hope there will be different options. But again, Bioware will do what they want especially with these two important characters.
And this is why I NEVER let Morrigan drink from the Well of Sorrows, Morrigans only concern is what Morrigan wants; Anyone this power hungry, secretive and evasive is not trust worthy. But I suspect that she will be unkillable (unfortunately) like Vivi who I would also desperately like to have the option to murder knife next game, opening credits I don't care.
Unlike with Morrigan, I kinda liked Solas pre-Trespasser despite his flaws, but the DLC reversed that completely.
And this is why I NEVER let Morrigan drink from the Well of Sorrows, Morrigans only concern is what Morrigan wants; Anyone this power hungry, secretive and evasive is not trust worthy. But I suspect that she will be unkillable (unfortunately) like Vivi who I would also desperately like to have the option to murder knife next game, opening credits I don't care.
Also, it is worth noting to Morrigan has no interest in power, she seeks to preserve ancient knowledge and mage for their own sake.
Morrigan is in an interesting place, character-wise, in my world state, and I'd like to see how it develops, personally. Since my Warden didn't agree to the Dark Ritual, she only finally got what she had wanted all along in Inquisition...only to be forced to sacrifice the very thing she wanted it for (to ensure her freedom). Granted, not everyone's world state works like mine, but I think I'd welcome her back in the next game, all in all.
I would hope, though, that some of her hubris ends up curbed by the reality of events.
I like Morrigan's character, but am not opposed to having her character killed off, Kieran or no. He can just end up with some adopted family or whatever.
However, I think that the opportunity to snuff her out should have come and gone with Inquisition. Like, say she drinks from the well instead of the Inquisitor, and the dragon that fights Corypheus' red lyrium monster gets killed, and if Morrigan is that dragon, then that's that for her…or something. But I think that now it's kind of too late. Having her die in the next game requires her to show up and do stuff again, and I'm not really sure why she should come back at all. On the other hand, I would be interested to see letting her drink from the well bite her in the ass. I don't expect it, but I'd like for that decision to amount to something later.
I'm a fan of Morrigan and the Warden-Morrigan romance, so my opine may be biased. However, the OP stated in this thread is bizzare. There are those who detest Morrigan, and perhaps rightfully so. She can be a ******, particialrly to those fond of Alistair and or Leliana.... or even Wynn. But, as far as the term of Betrayal goes, there is little to back that up.
Flemeth saves the Warden and Alistair after the debacle at Ostagar. With absolutely no duty or obligation to help the Wardens, Flemeth volunteers Morrigan's services to the Wardens' cause. This is VOLUNTARY. Neither Flemeth nor Morrigan have an obligation OR swear an oath to assist the Wardens to the bitter end. The thought that because she's helping, that she is somehow bound to do everything the Warden wants and absolutely must follow the Warden to the end is irrational.
She decieves the Warden, and her help is predicated on an ulterior motive, no doubt, but the Warden has the option to refuse that motive with some consequence, but she never attacks or inhibits the Warden from defeating the Blight. She owes the Warden nothing. The Warden has the option not to help her deal with Flemeth, and she will leave, as she has no duty or obligation to remain with him/her with her own survival at stake.
Is that any different than other companions?
By contrast, Alistair has a duty to see the blight defeated as a GW, and yet spare Loghain, and he quits the fight and is really the only character in DAO who can truly 'betray' the Warden. Where are the threads wanting the death of Alistair?
Should the Warden defile the Urn of Sacred Ashes, Wynn and Leliana will not only stop following the Warden, but will attack the them.... where are the Wynn and Leliana hate threads?
Oghren and Sten can attack the Warden if approval gets to a certain low.
Morrigan's sum total of 'evil' in DAO is opinion. She never attacks the Warden and does nothing I can recall as evil; though she is on the wrong side of some decisions (Anvil of the Void, Elven Slavers), she's not eating babies and leveling villages. In DAI, she kills the Elf at the WOS, but he was bringing the temple down upon the group, so this was little more than self-preservation, which everyone has a right to.
As far as Solas goes, I'm all in, he needs a slow, awful death.
She is in one game and a half and one DLC. How does that reasonably qualify as over-exposure?
There are a great many numbers of Dragon Age characters who have been in multiple games, comic books, even an anime movie making them far more deserving of the "writer's pet title."
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