305 réponses à ce sujet

[Shechinah]

I believe Morrigan approves if the Warden chooses to accept the Magister Caladrius' blood ritual of sacrificing the captured Alienage elves for power as well as allowing him to leave with the slaves or sparing him. She disapproves if the ritual is not accepted.

 

How much of this was because of character and not due to mechanic is debatable since Sten approves the same if the ritual is accepted or Magister Caladrius is allowed to leave with the slaves which seems outright nonsensical given his character though he may have provided a reasoning during the event that I simply cannot remember.

 

It may have been they needed to provide another oppertunity late in the game to lower or raise these respective companion's approval and had to use this segment regardless of how much sense it made in terms of their respective characters.   

[9TailsFox]

I believe Morrigan approves if the Warden chooses to accept the Magister Caladrius' blood ritual of sacrificing the captured Alienage elves for power as well as allowing him to leave with the slaves or sparing him. She disapproves if the ritual is not accepted.

 

How much of this was because of character and not due to mechanic is debatable since Sten approves the same if the ritual is accepted or Magister Caladrius is allowed to leave with the slaves which seems outright nonsensical given his character though he may have provided a reasoning during the event that I simply cannot remember.

 

It may have been they needed to provide another oppertunity late in the game to lower or raise these respective companion's approval and had to use this segment regardless of how much sense it made in terms of their respective characters.   

Sten aprowal is understandable. Sten is not evil or good he is perfect qunari pragmatic. You are warden and must defet blight any means posible sacrifacing elfs would make you stronger and easyer to win.

[Shechinah]

Sten aprowal is understandable. Sten is not evil or good he is perfect qunari pragmatic. You are warden and must defet blight any means posible sacrifacing elfs would make you stronger and easyer to win.

 

That makes sense to a degree but he still approves of letting the Tevinter Magister leave with the slaves without performing the sacrifice. I suppose it could be argued that he thinks it is unimportant in comparison to the Blight.
 

[Derrame]

Dragon Age without Morrigan is like a first person shooter without weapons and without shooting, like Dragon Age without dragons or a mage that doesn't do magic

[Shechinah]

Dragon Age without Morrigan is like a first person shooter without weapons and without shooting, like Dragon Age without dragons or a mage that doesn't do magic

 

A matter of opinion as I did not count Morrigan's absence amongst the flaws of Dragon Age II.
 

[Aren]

Sten aprowal is understandable. Sten is not evil or good he is perfect qunari pragmatic. You are warden and must defet blight any means posible sacrifacing elfs would make you stronger and easyer to win.

The blood magic adopted by Caladrius is not effective, because at that point the magister is severely damaged after the battle,someone like Sten a Qunari on its core should have realized that it was just a feeble attempt from the magister part to avoid death after his defeat.

However unlike Morrigan he  didn't show any lingering satisfaction for those kind of choices,while Morrigan often  commenting onthem with a demonstration of satisfaction....creepy.

[Gaia300]

(that's an interesting post i read from another topic.)

 

 I would not be upset if Bioware decides to  provide a death scenario.

In fact I would take off my hat and salute Bioware for having the courage to kill off Morrigan despite her overwhelming popularly. It takes a lot of balls to do something like that. IMO that is called good writing. A good story teller should never be afraid (by upsetting the readers) by killing off a character in the story if it makes sense. What the readers must understand is that it's not their story but the story of the writer. Either you like how it's progressing or you do not. Dragon Age is not just about Flemeth nor Morrigan. Dragon Age is about what goes on in Thedas in every aspect.

 

When the popular character dies another one is born.

[R0vena]

Dragon Age without Morrigan is like a first person shooter without weapons and without shooting, like Dragon Age without dragons or a mage that doesn't do magic

I don't mind Morrigan, even if I disliked her at first I warmed up to her eventually. But I think up until the end of DAI all she did was to provide completely optional alternative outcomes and wasn't that essential at all.

 

But I really doubt the writers will kill her since it looks like she is going to take the place of Flemeth in world of Thedas. Wouldn't personally mind her death as an option - but only as an option.

[Qun00]

I don't mind Morrigan, even if I disliked her at first I warmed up to her eventually. But I think up until the end of DAI all she did was to provide completely optional alternative outcomes and wasn't that essential at all.

But I really doubt the writers will kill her since it looks like she is going to take the place of Flemeth in world of Thedas. Wouldn't personally mind her death as an option - but only as an option.

She isn't essential to the main plot, that's true. But no character should disappear without resolving its storyline first.

[R0vena]

She isn't essential to the main plot, that's true. But no character should disappear without resolving its storyline first.

Of course not. It would depend how the writers would handle it.

I don't like the idea "Kill Morrigan (or Solas or anybody else) just because I (the player) don't like her/him", but if it is a consequence of player choice and one of possible outcomes it could be interesting.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Interesting in its premise if however a rather hostile topic,nevertheless i agree if only to some extent.

If such request for death is a preventive measure to avoid the return of the characters then I am in vehement agreement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Second, Morrigan does not even perform actions that are harmful to others 

 

 

So, let us see, by Redcliff, Morrigan had spent around a year, give or take, accompanying the Warden around, from the top of the mountains to the deepest pits, fighting Darkspawn, golems, soldiers, demons, Abominations, etc, never once doing anything to prevent the Warden from taking actions she personally disagreed with and, possibly, even forming her first friendship with or falling in love with Warden and, when she asks him/her for something that she strongly believes in, she is refused.

And you're angry that she walks away? I'm sorry that Morrigan has opinions of her own.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ultimately this is irrelevant, whether she is to be considered a witch, a mercenary, a volunteer or a subordinate she leaves the main warden after having attempted to use the critical situation to her personal advantage,  fooled the protagonist and having made a promise that was not kept on the 1st grimoire.

 

To betray, some shades of its definition:

-to be unfaithful in guarding, maintaining, or fulfilling:to betray a trust.

-to deceive, misguide, or corrupt

Morrigan may fit for both categories.

Her being not directly harmful doesn't disqualify the betrayal from some of its definitions.

Is not a matter of "having opinions of our own",this is just a convenient smokescreen of your argument,but more likely of Morrigan that has been fooling the Warden from day one and then left because of her personal whims.

I have my personal opinion when i express a preference or i'm more interested in specific priorities not when i'm fooling others.

As far as i'm concerned none of your arguments disqualified this,when the ritual is refused Morrigan become by the definition a traitor under a specific perspective that is ultimately correct

[Aren]

Dragon Age without Morrigan is like a first person shooter without weapons and without shooting, like Dragon Age without dragons or a mage that doesn't do magic

 

A matter of opinion as I did not count Morrigan's absence amongst the flaws of Dragon Age II.
 

Indeed,from what i grapsed from the data of the forum on the story,campaign and characters section of DAI, Morrigan character do not seem to be one of those discussed pretty much all the others characters have a larger number of pages,a sign that at least here players seem not to be particularly interested in her.

Leliana topic on the other hand  is more discussed,while the one of Solas at the moment is for number of pages the #1

[Xerrai]

What we feel on the matter is irrelevant (regardless of weather or not you pro/anti Solas and Morrigan). The option to kill them will only arrive when the story permits. But as it is both characters are highly valuable to the Dragon Age story. They may not make direct contributions to the corresponding game plot, but the writers treat them as pieces of a larger whole. 

Both characters are the 'main tools' as it were, for furthering certain aspects of the DA verse and are too valuable to kill off for now. This is becoming increasingly apparent with the release of Trespasser (only so many characters have direct or alluded ties to the ancient elves/mythal-who-is-also-flemyth). 

[biccs_pudding]

So this is basically a "Kill X character because I hate them" thing? It's gems like these why I'm the happiest when game studios avoid doing fan service as much as they can.

 

Granted, I'm a huge Morri-fan. But even so, I just can't comprehend the active, dedicated hate towards a companion character that fuels reactions like this one. Sure, I disliked plenty of DA characters before (Wynne, Valenna, the entire DA2 cast, even Solas until the ending etc.), but I would never want to kill any of them just for the heck of it or throw a hissy fit on forums because I can't do so. Every single one of these can have great story potential if the writers will it, obnoxious or not. I may have wanted to punch Fenris in the face 90% of the time, I still wouldn't mind seeing him return as an NPC with some new role (or yes, even Anders for that matter). Quite the contrary, they might even positively surprise me like they did with Leliana for example (I disliked her 'prayers and holy water' self in DAO, even killed her in one playthrough, but adored her in Inquisition, even dreading that she wasn't a companion this time around). I've seen people having this same experience with Morrigan, actually (they disliked her in DAO but warmed up to her in Inquisition; she was definitely more humble towards the player character even in a not-a-mom state). Solas was actually annoying me to death during my first playthrough, but I gained a newfound appreciation for him after the big reveal and can absolutely not wait to have him as the big bad next time, killing option or no.

 

Having Morrigan return didn't tie BioWare's hands in introducing new plot-relevant guys like Solas. Having Leliana and Cullen in the War Council didn't "remove space" for new additions like Josephine. Having Varric in the party didn't take the spotlight from the rest of the bunch. Where are the "Kill'em with fire" threads for those ones, I wonder?

In the same manner, Solas and Morrigan reappearing-without-dying will not somehow siphon out the creativity from the franchise, Thedas is quite a bit larger than that, thankfully. Some characters are just written to be more relevant than others, that's how fiction works, and I'm completely fine with that. That doesn't necessarily make them "pet characters", which pretty much equals "relevant characters I don't like" around here.

 

With that said, story and character fatigue is an issue Weekes and co should definitely be considering. I do in fact agree that existing characters should have a 3-game life cycle in most cases (possibly with a few larger-than-life exceptions like Flemythal) and I wouldn't mind if the next game would be Morrigan's last appearance, or DA5 in Solas' case. I have nothing against them dying or optionally dying if it's done in a tasteful enough way (commiting suicide Saren-style, either of them making a noble sacrifice even, it's not beyond any of them), but not as a bone thrown to haters. If they're written out to live as hermits/go wander around the world/settle down for good, that's fine too.

 

Unrelated request: I'd die to have Kieran as an NPC next game. Potentially-dead people did have roles in previous games, it shouldn't be difficult to do so with a potentially-not-existing one.

[Secret Rare]

So this is basically a "Kill X character because I hate them" thing? It's gems like these why I'm the happiest when game studios avoid doing fan service as much as they can.

 

 

First and foremost i did not hate Solas despite the fact that he betrayed the Inquisitor and is a potential threat,a possible death scenario should be an option in order to stop him if he will not listen but proceed to the genocide plan<into a sequel.

 

What Morrigan did i considered as a betrayal yet she can get away without problem because of plot armor and later is shoehorned into the Inquisition in order to build that silly plot of the magical pool of water that was planned to be just a DLc of DAII.

Is useless to say that most character of DAO and DAII (Fenris included) can be killed,as far as i'm concerned Morrigan is the one who wear plot armor despite the fact that i had reasons to want to kill her.

Seriously the girl  lied and deceived the whole time,suggested to murder all the elves and escaped from battle despite her words..... and yet i cannot kill you for revenge? Uh,why? Plot armor?

[9TailsFox]

 

First and foremost i did not hate Solas despite the fact that he betrayed the Inquisitor and is a potential threat,a possible death scenario should be an option in order to stop him if he will not listen but proceed to the genocide plan<into a sequel.

 

What Morrigan did i considered as a betrayal yet she can get away without problem because of plot armor and later is shoehorned into the Inquisition in order to build that silly plot of the magical pool of water that was planned to be just a DLc of DAII.

Is useless to say that most character of DAO and DAII (Fenris included) can be killed,as far as i'm concerned Morrigan is the one who wear plot armor despite the fact that i had reasons to want to kill her.

Seriously the girl  lied and deceived the whole time,suggested to murder all the elves and escaped from battle despite her words..... and yet i cannot kill you for revenge? Uh,why? Plot armor?

 

But why Morrigan specificly just becouse you don't like her? why not Leliana witch was brought from the dead. or Oghren or Flemeth or Cory. We can kill characters witch are still alive in the future, We never have option to kill Morrigan.

[Secret Rare]

But why Morrigan specificly just becouse you don't like her? why not Leliana witch was brought from the dead. or Oghren or Flemeth or Cory. We can kill characters witch are still alive in the future, We never have option to kill Morrigan.

All the characters that you mentioned were spared from death but are ultimately killable Leliana included,still i do recognize that the idea behind the whole lyrium ghost was just a way to fix a mistake from Bioware part

 

Morrigan

 

The key point being clearly the series of blackmails  that her character represent for the narrative over the course of the franchise.

Morrigan's character is ultimately  in its core (and this is a peculiarity that as far as i'm concerned i saw only on her) a narrative deflector used to force the plot into a certain direction in order to create a vortex in which the blackmail linger.

@Andraste reborn made a point for DAO

-Why didn't Riordan created others GW despite having the resources to do so?He didn't even made the attempt....

-Why Duncan didn't told to AListair about the US after 6th months spent together to avoid that stupid conflict between him and Loghain?

-And Riordan being there with the Warden the whole time in Eamon estate and never mention anything of him planning to be the first sacrifice to a fellow warden?,

Which would have been basically a conversation that would have brought it up the whole sacrifice thing on the surface before the Landsmeet.

 

In short from a narrative point of view the answer is simple,because the writers wanted to create that contrived situation of the dark ritual in which either a friend/lover or Loghain(since of course Riordan had to fail otherwise the ritual would have been useless) or the protagonist would have died,this is to take into the account of the stupid plot holes that the writers generated from the Landsmeet on all in favor of the Morrigan sub plot.

 

 

It's easy to make a similar point for DAI as some user here already pointed out,why the situation on the well of sorrow seem to be so forced?

Why it has to be another blackmail with Morrigan involved?

 

-No one want to drink only Morrigan......... ok....

 

-Abelas do not want to just answer to a simple question because he don't care.........ok great justification here... did he had an urgency to do something?

 

-There is no option to destroy the well of sorrow and try to recive the "secret" fom Solas or find another approach to the problem....ok

 

All of this because you are forced into another blackmail with the X factor Morrigan that will resolve the situation at the cost of giving her more power.

If the only way to remove those kind of sloppy writing is the request of a death option for her then so be it,because i'm sure that if the next game will feature her in some capacity,we will have another of those contrived scenario with Morrigan involved,in which the main plot will be  somehow deflected in order to generate  another blackmail on a new shining   spotlight.

Add to the whole  thing that the insults she did on the first character (murdering of her family? seriously? a deception for an entire year only to leave with that smile on her face?) did got unpunished because it was Morrigan.

 

 Solas was never built upon blackmails,neither he was someone who didn't approve of helping others over the course of the game,neither he was a deflector that forced the narrative into a certain situation with the creation of plenty of plot holes.

Each time the character of Morrigan appear the blackmail yet linger,i knew that in DAI the moment i saw her for the first time and i was right.

[Bizantura]

If that for you is the solution then I hope you get that insta kill button.

 

I am thankfull deep intricate personalities are still in the game,  the day  it will be all Sera's I will cringe  and thow  my hat at RPG's.

[biccs_pudding]

What Morrigan did i considered as a betrayal yet she can get away without problem because of plot armor and later is shoehorned into the Inquisition in order to build that silly plot of the magical pool of water that was planned to be just a DLc of DAII.

 

Seriously the girl  lied and deceived the whole time,suggested to murder all the elves and escaped from battle despite her words..... and yet i cannot kill you for revenge? Uh,why? Plot armor?

 

I personally don't care why you hate her, that's not the point. You can dislike any character and the way they are written all you want, at the end of the day it's still the writers that decide on the course of the story and who the key characters are, "plot armor" this and "pet character" that. Not you. Illusion of choice and all that jazz. It's not a new thing by any means and it's definitely not exclusive to Morrigan.

 

Is useless to say that most character of DAO and DAII (Fenris included) can be killed,as far as i'm concerned Morrigan is the one who wear plot armor despite the fact that i had reasons to want to kill her.

 

And Varric too I suppose, right? I happened to dislike the dwarf, believe it or not. Not as much as wanting to gut him but let's pretend for a sec that I'd want to do just that because of reasons (say it's because of the red lyrium business). Thing is that I couldn't if I wanted, boohoo. There are also untouchable NPCs like Cassandra in DA2, it wouldn't be unreasonable for me to want to seriously hurt her if I happened to be a Varric fan and wanted to get some gory revenge on her. Can't do that either, insulting her or briefly driving her into a drunken stupor is the most you can do. You won't see me (or anyone basically) throwing a tantrum over it crying "Plot Armor!".
And don't even get me started on the Leliana necromancing.

 

Your preferences and headcanons are your own. The story is not, and hurray for that.

[Aren]

Without the Well of Sorrows, you have no idea how to kill him and no dragon to aid you
@Mrjb
I dont need any dragon since the inquisitor already killed many of them without help The red lyrium dragon included of whom both Morrigan and the guardian failed to defeat.
In all honesty i just think that the temple of Mythal was disconnected to the main game and that Morrigan was unecessary to the plot just like the well of sorrow

[Andromelek]

Without the Well of Sorrows, you have no idea how to kill him and no dragon to aid you
@Mrjb
I dont need any dragon since the inquisitor already killed many of them without help The red lyrium dragon included of whom both Morrigan and the guardian failed to defeat.

There the Dragon ally distracted and weakened the Red Lyrium Dragon, otherwise the Inquisitor would have to fight Corypheus and the Dragon at the same time, that said, I'm not happy with Morrigan wearing a plot armor (again) over the Guardian who was a bigger Dragon than her.

[Madfox11]

In addition to the weakening, I also got the impression that they manage to ground the dragon, making it possible for you to actually kill it. It is the same reason why Riordan hurts it, but does not kill the Archdemon: to ground the critter without hogging the glory from the protagonist. Flying opponents with ranged weapons are incredible hard to kill and they can just fly away if seriously wounded. I am always surprised why the dragons in DAI stick around after being seriously wounded

[Aren]

I'm sure that the red lyrium was not injuried in the wings so he was still capable to fly and escape, all in all the quizzy would have been capable to defeat with the party and the others soldier both cory and the dragon since Cory was busy with the Orb and the breach.
I also noticed for the first time now that Morrigan unlike the Mythal guardian was not killed by the red lyrium.....plot armor here i smell plot armor...

[Madfox11]

I'm sure that the red lyrium was not injuried in the wings so he was still capable to fly and escape, all in all the quizzy would have been capable to defeat with the party and the others soldier both cory and the dragon since Cory was busy with the Orb and the breach.
I also noticed for the first time now that Morrigan unlike the Mythal guardian was not killed by the red lyrium.....plot armor here i smell plot armor...

 

To be perfectly honest, money, time and computer strength places limitations on what the developers can and cannot allow to happen. Either they provide plot armor to certain characters to at least manage the number of deviations to a manageable amount, or they accept one result as the end cannon result which cannot be influenced by earlier play-throughs. In my home games I never would create a single solution like the Well of Sorrows, but I don't need to plan the story two years in advance to guess all possible deviations my players might come up with. It is not perfect, and I am sure the writers of DA also would love to see differently, but it is a necessary evil.

 

Regardless, even if it is not explicitly stated, I will certainly head-cannon the dragon as being too wounded to fly. It does not change anything while it makes the situation much more logical

[Aren]

To be perfectly honest, money, time and computer strength places limitations on what the developers can and cannot allow to happen. Either they provide plot armor to certain characters to at least manage the number of deviations to a manageable amount, or they accept one result as the end cannon result which cannot be influenced by earlier play-throughs. In my home games I never would create a single solution like the Well of Sorrows, but I don't need to plan the story two years in advance to guess all possible deviations my players might come up with. It is not perfect, and I am sure the writers of DA also would love to see differently, but it is a necessary evil.

Regardless, even if it is not explicitly stated, I will certainly head-cannon the dragon as being too wounded to fly. It does not change anything while it makes the situation much more logical

True i'm also of the impression that from a storitelling point of view this top secret method revealed out of nowhere (well of sorrow) are a form of sloppy writing.
The writers said that this subplot was not meant to be in DAI but in DAII.
As for the red lyrium i believe that she was not injuried
(the health bar is very high s he is fine)she cannot run away from battle because her mission (the dragon is feamle) was to buy time for Coryphus who was ready to aggravate the breach.