92 réponses à ce sujet

[SolNebula]

Vasir, Clone and Shadow Broker were nice boss battles. I'm ok with those. Clone in particular was the best one.

[Reighto]

I want boss battles to be like my experience raiding in WoW. I'm in a decent raiding guild. We can clear some heroic bosses, and maybe a mythic boss or two if everyone is on their "A" game.  I like the feeling of "banging my head against the wall," and the reward when I finally defeated the game.  I hope ME:A can give me that feeling.

Maybe try Dark Souls?

[sjsharp2011]

Boss battles are a bad idea.  There shouldn't be any.

I admit that the Corypheus battle at the end of DAI was a little easier than I expected as I quite often found fighting the High dragons tougher than fighting him. but generally I think Bioware more or less get it right. As I felt the bosses in ME were challenging enough without being overly difficult so as long as the Bosses remain the same in MEA I'd be happy with that.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I admit that the Corypheus battle at the end of DAI was a little easier than I expected as I quite often found fighting the High dragons tougher than fighting him. but generally I think Bioware more or less get it right. As I felt the bosses in ME were challenging enough without being overly difficult so as long as the Bosses remain the same in MEA I'd be happy with that.

I generally find boss battles contrived because they follow unique rules.  The Ancient Rock Wraith in DA2 relied on a mechanic which the entire rest of the series to that point hadn't obeyed.  The boss at the end of ME2 was just silly.  Saren was trivially simple to defeat.  The Corypheus battle occured in pre-determined stages no matter how much damage you did to him at once.

 

I want all combat to follow the same rules.  Boss battles rarely do.

[Deebo305]

Boss battles are a bad idea. There shouldn't be any.

I disagree with this

The problem is how they are handled and when they should be properly used. The Tela Vasir fight from LotSB was good example, even the Rannoch Reaper was good because of how and when it was done with you basically ending the war on Rannoch with its destruction. The Shadow Broker final fight was decent as well.

Challenging the player with someone equally as skilled and powerful always make good fights. The Kai Leng fights in ME3 were just bad because of his pointless immunity animations and minion summoning

[sjsharp2011]

I generally find boss battles contrived because they follow unique rules.  The Ancient Rock Wraith in DA2 relied on a mechanic which the entire rest of the series to that point hadn't obeyed.  The boss at the end of ME2 was just silly.  Saren was trivially simple to defeat.  The Corypheus battle occured in pre-determined stages no matter how much damage you did to him at once.

 

I want all combat to follow the same rules.  Boss battles rarely do.

I just think Boss battles in general have their own set of rules really. I'm persomnally more interested in the story that surrounds why your fighting this guy  than individual battles and as long as that part is covered well. Which in Bioware's case it usually is then I'm OK with that.

[In Exile]

I disagree with this

The problem is how they are handled and when they should be properly used. The Tela Vasir fight from LotSB was good example, even the Rannoch Reaper was good because of how and when it was done with you basically ending the war on Rannoch with its destruction. The Shadow Broker final fight was decent as well.

Challenging the player with someone equally as skilled and powerful always make good fights. The Kai Leng fights in ME3 were just bad because of his pointless immunity animations and minion summoning

 

It's a bad example. Why is Tela Vasir some immutable battle god that can soak up more bullets than an army of krogan? It's silly. In fact, Tela Vasir kind of captures my issue with boss battles: if you want a boss that operates that way, it has to be something unique. The reaper is a good example - that at least justifies it being a bullet sponge.  

[Laughing_Man]

It's a bad example. Why is Tela Vasir some immutable battle god that can soak up more bullets than an army of krogan? It's silly. In fact, Tela Vasir kind of captures my issue with boss battles: if you want a boss that operates that way, it has to be something unique. The reaper is a good example - that at least justifies it being a bullet sponge.  

 

Tela Vasir is a highly skilled Spectre with excellent training, high Biotic potential, and top-of-the-line weaponry, armor, and gadgets.

For me that's plenty enough to justify her abilities and toughness.

 

That said, I wouldn't have been against seeing a Krogan boss fight, and some kind of a reaper creature boss fight in addition.

[In Exile]

Tela Vasir is a highly skilled Spectre with excellent training, high Biotic potential, and top-of-the-line weaponry, armor, and gadgets.

For me that's plenty enough to justify her abilities and toughness.

 

That said, I wouldn't have been against seeing a Krogan boss fight, and some kind of a reaper creature boss fight in addition.

 

That doesn't make sense. So is Shepard. If her armour is so indestructible, why doesn't everyone have it? If she's a biotic god, what are they doing risking her life in the field instead of studying her? It's all nonsense, and it all comes back to how stupid HP is as a concept. 

[Synthetic Turian]

The thread title reminds me of the South Park movie. 

[Laughing_Man]

That doesn't make sense. So is Shepard. If her armour is so indestructible, why doesn't everyone have it? If she's a biotic god, what are they doing risking her life in the field instead of studying her? It's all nonsense, and it all comes back to how stupid HP is as a concept. 

 

Shepard always seemed to me in game as a kind of a joke compared to real Spectres, a politically motivated joke.

The game hardly shows Shepard as a force to be reckoned with (I mean, compare him and someone like Adam Jensen "I never asked for this"...),

most of the time he seems like a bumbling idiot. (I think it's slightly better with Fem!Shep, at least when it comes to VA)

 

But back on topic, She is an Asari with hundreds of years of field experience, and her Biotics while certainly strong, are not unique among Asari.

She probably has access to more funds and better equipment than Shepard because of her work with the Shadow broker.

 

Not everyone can pay a million credits on a specialized suit of armor (just an example), so you should hardly expect to see this kind of toughness on any vanilla thug.

 

But yes, HP is a stupid entirely gamey concept and shouldn't be taken at face value when it comes to a lore discussion.

Just think on it as the integrity of her armor / barriers / other specialized defensive gadgets.

[Sir Froggie]

I think they should have more large scale monsters. All we have in the original trilogy are thresher maws, and maybe the Thorian? I was always disappointed there wasn't a larger diversity of wildlife in the galaxy that wasn't sentient.

[Mordokai]

Whenever I think of boss battle, I think of Bayonetta. Now there was a boss battle done right. Tough as nails, punishing and made you sweat blood for beating the damn bastards.

 

But not unfair. Never that.

[afgncaap7]

Shepard always seemed to me in game as a kind of a joke compared to real Spectres, a politically motivated joke.

The game hardly shows Shepard as a force to be reckoned with (I mean, compare him and someone like Adam Jensen "I never asked for this"...),

most of the time he seems like a bumbling idiot. (I think it's slightly better with Fem!Shep, at least when it comes to VA)

 

But back on topic, She is an Asari with hundreds of years of field experience, and her Biotics while certainly strong, are not unique among Asari.

She probably has access to more funds and better equipment than Shepard because of her work with the Shadow broker.

 

Not everyone can pay a million credits on a specialized suit of armor (just an example), so you should hardly expect to see this kind of toughness on any vanilla thug.

 

But yes, HP is a stupid entirely gamey concept and shouldn't be taken at face value when it comes to a lore discussion.

Just think on it as the integrity of her armor / barriers / other specialized defensive gadgets.

Shepard seemed like a joke? The game hardly shows Shepard as a force to be reckoned with? What game did I play then? Did I just imagine bulldozing my way through legion after legion of Geth? Did I just imagine killing Saren twice? Did I just imagine opening up countless job positions for Terminus mercs? Did I just imagine blowing who knows how many gunships out of the sky with an assault rifle? Did I just imagine killing Tela Vasir in open combat? Did I just imagine punching out the Shadow Broker? Did I just imagine single-handedly fighting my way through the entirety of the Arrival DLC? Did I just imagine stopping the Cerberus takeover? Did I just imagine reclaiming Omega? Did I just imagine my role in getting Krogans to work with Turians and Quarians to work with Geth? Did I just imagine walking into TIM's base and sitting in his chair? Did I just imagine being told by the Leviathan that Harbinger views me as a threat?

Did I just imagine all of that?

[Sidney]

Vasir, Clone and Shadow Broker were nice boss battles. I'm ok with those. Clone in particular was the best one.

Vasir was everything wrong with boss battles. So many things but here is someone wounded and on the run who, in the actual fight, can run away and not get hurt up on the roof...but proceeds to keep coming back to fight so she can get killed when winning means nothing to her. SHe is doing things no other foe does, has mounds of hit points and is generally not an exercise in being smart as in doing the same patterns over and over.

[Il Divo]

Shepard seemed like a joke? The game hardly shows Shepard as a force to be reckoned with? What game did I play then? Did I just imagine bulldozing my way through legion after legion of Geth? Did I just imagine killing Saren twice? Did I just imagine opening up countless job positions for Terminus mercs? Did I just imagine blowing who knows how many gunships out of the sky with an assault rifle? Did I just imagine killing Tela Vasir in open combat? Did I just imagine punching out the Shadow Broker? Did I just imagine single-handedly fighting my way through the entirety of the Arrival DLC? Did I just imagine stopping the Cerberus takeover? Did I just imagine reclaiming Omega? Did I just imagine my role in getting Krogans to work with Turians and Quarians to work with Geth? Did I just imagine walking into TIM's base and sitting in his chair? Did I just imagine being told by the Leviathan that Harbinger views me as a threat?

Did I just imagine all of that?

 

This cannot be repeated enough. ME1 was probably the most down to Earth portrayal of Commander Shepard and even that's not saying much considering how often he's praised for his awesomeness. ME2 ups that even more with Shepard's new status as representative of humanity.

 

In general, Bioware games (and most RPG's) pretty frequently portray the protagonist as being a God of Murder/death.

[Laughing_Man]

Shepard seemed like a joke? The game hardly shows Shepard as a force to be reckoned with? What game did I play then? Did I just imagine bulldozing my way through legion after legion of Geth? Did I just imagine killing Saren twice? Did I just imagine opening up countless job positions for Terminus mercs? Did I just imagine blowing who knows how many gunships out of the sky with an assault rifle? Did I just imagine killing Tela Vasir in open combat? Did I just imagine punching out the Shadow Broker? Did I just imagine single-handedly fighting my way through the entirety of the Arrival DLC? Did I just imagine stopping the Cerberus takeover? Did I just imagine reclaiming Omega? Did I just imagine my role in getting Krogans to work with Turians and Quarians to work with Geth? Did I just imagine walking into TIM's base and sitting in his chair? Did I just imagine being told by the Leviathan that Harbinger views me as a threat?

Did I just imagine all of that?

 

This cannot be repeated enough. ME1 was probably the most down to Earth portrayal of Commander Shepard and even that's not saying much considering how often he's praised for his awesomeness. ME2 ups that even more with Shepard's new status as representative of humanity.

 

In general, Bioware games (and most RPG's) pretty frequently portray the protagonist as being a God of Murder/death.

 

When I said Shepard came off as a bumbling idiot, I meant mainly in cut-scenes and dialogue.

[someone puts a gun to Shep's head (that Batarian terrorist)? No problem.

He's just going to ignore it, turn around, throw an awkward punch you can see coming from a mile away,

take the pistol and shoot the guy in the face. I'm still waiting for the explanation of why he didn't get shot in the head.]

 

What you actually do in the game and the number of goons you killed is very nice, but less relevant when it comes to the portrayal of this specific PC,

because every other PC in every other game can do the same as well...

[goishen]

I admit that the Corypheus battle at the end of DAI was a little easier than I expected as I quite often found fighting the High dragons tougher than fighting him. but generally I think Bioware more or less get it right. As I felt the bosses in ME were challenging enough without being overly difficult so as long as the Bosses remain the same in MEA I'd be happy with that.

 

 

I will say that I felt that the dragon battles in DA:I felt just about right.   I mean, it is called Dragon Age.  Harder than the ending boss battle?   Meh.  Yeh, with the number of people that don't even have 30% of a game completed, I'm thinking so.

[Mdizzletr0n]

I felt as if the boss battles in Mass Effect was pretty much 'rinse and repeat.' Pop out of cover kill adds, focus boss, move from point-to-point, repeat.  Boss battles in ME1 was pretty pathetic.  ME2 and ME3, was a little better, some fights you've actually had some mechanics to it, but once you figure it out, it's pretty much easy.
 
Now, do you think in ME:A, we could get boss battles that are actually challenging, or do you think we're in for the same?

Isn't that pretty much how all shooters work though? Rinse and repeat.

[Sylvius the Mad]

But yes, HP is a stupid entirely gamey concept and shouldn't be taken at face value when it comes to a lore discussion.

Any mechanic that can't be taken at face value when it comes to a lore discussion is a bad mechanic.

[Mdizzletr0n]

Shepard seemed like a joke? The game hardly shows Shepard as a force to be reckoned with? What game did I play then? Did I just imagine bulldozing my way through legion after legion of Geth? Did I just imagine killing Saren twice? Did I just imagine opening up countless job positions for Terminus mercs? Did I just imagine blowing who knows how many gunships out of the sky with an assault rifle? Did I just imagine killing Tela Vasir in open combat? Did I just imagine punching out the Shadow Broker? Did I just imagine single-handedly fighting my way through the entirety of the Arrival DLC? Did I just imagine stopping the Cerberus takeover? Did I just imagine reclaiming Omega? Did I just imagine my role in getting Krogans to work with Turians and Quarians to work with Geth? Did I just imagine walking into TIM's base and sitting in his chair? Did I just imagine being told by the Leviathan that Harbinger views me as a threat?
Did I just imagine all of that?

It certainly didn't show Shepard as a force to be reckoned with as a biotic. I mean, it was mentioned maybe once by his stalker.

[afgncaap7]

When I said Shepard came off as a bumbling idiot, I meant mainly in cut-scenes and dialogue.

[someone puts a gun to Shep's head (that Batarian terrorist)? No problem.

He's just going to ignore it, turn around, throw an awkward punch you can see coming from a mile away,

take the pistol and shoot the guy in the face. I'm still waiting for the explanation of why he didn't get shot in the head.]

 

What you actually do in the game and the number of goons you killed is very nice, but less relevant when it comes to the portrayal of this specific PC,

because every other PC in every other game can do the same as well...

Meh, I'll give you that. With all the motion capture you see these days the limited animations BioWare keeps using can be a little......underwhelming.

[afgncaap7]

It certainly didn't show Shepard as a force to be reckoned with as a biotic. I mean, it was mentioned maybe once by his stalker.

 

Indeed...it's a shame that it took all the way until Omega for classes to make a difference in cutscenes. Hopefully that'll change in Andromeda.

[KaiserShep]

Shepard always seemed to me in game as a kind of a joke compared to real Spectres, a politically motivated joke.

The game hardly shows Shepard as a force to be reckoned with (I mean, compare him and someone like Adam Jensen "I never asked for this"...),

most of the time he seems like a bumbling idiot. (I think it's slightly better with Fem!Shep, at least when it comes to VA)

 

But back on topic, She is an Asari with hundreds of years of field experience, and her Biotics while certainly strong, are not unique among Asari.

She probably has access to more funds and better equipment than Shepard because of her work with the Shadow broker.

 

Not everyone can pay a million credits on a specialized suit of armor (just an example), so you should hardly expect to see this kind of toughness on any vanilla thug.

 

But yes, HP is a stupid entirely gamey concept and shouldn't be taken at face value when it comes to a lore discussion.

Just think on it as the integrity of her armor / barriers / other specialized defensive gadgets.

 

 

The funny thing about the "real" Spectres in the game is that they were all fools that ended up paying for their weakness and getting killed. Saren became an indoctrinated pawn, Nihilus was a moron that decided to go off on in a war zone by himself rather than stay with the group he traveled there with, in which there was a potential Spectre candidate that he was supposed to be observing, and Vasir was an idiot that squandered every opportunity to escape by trying to kill people she didn't really have to, since she had what she needed and could have used the disposable Broker squads as a distraction. Then there's Jondam Bau, a Spectre who is overpowered by some random unarmed jerk who can choke him to death. 

[SolNebula]

Vasir was everything wrong with boss battles. So many things but here is someone wounded and on the run who, in the actual fight, can run away and not get hurt up on the roof...but proceeds to keep coming back to fight so she can get killed when winning means nothing to her. SHe is doing things no other foe does, has mounds of hit points and is generally not an exercise in being smart as in doing the same patterns over and over.

 Well I disagree it's a videogame it is not supposed to be realistic but fun. Most videogames are based on the principle of doing the same pattern over and over again. You aren't smart just because you are playing videogames, you are just having fun. If you want to be smart I suggest playing chess.