77 réponses à ce sujet

[omgodzilla]

I was pretty disappointed at how tame the Inquisitor was in DAI. Other than a few executions and IB's side misson, there really weren't many options for us to be truly ruthless. I miss the days of ME2 when we could threaten our enemies, push them off windows, set them on fire, snap their necks, electrocute them, torture them, headbutt them, etc. I still think ME2 had the best morality system by far. Sure, it may have been a little inconsistent at times but there was so much more diversity in the things we could do, compared to other BIoware games. 

 

I really hope they go a step further with the renegade/ruthless choices this time around, compared to DAI. It really would add alot to the replay value of the game. 

[Dalakaar]

In a linear game no matter how many choices you have you'll always get funneled. It's a matter of resources. They can't make three separate games.

[Mcfly616]

Renegade shouldn't have ever been "ruthless" or evil just for the hell of it. A renegade option should've been more indicative of an anti-hero. After all, we're not the villain.

[omgodzilla]

Renegade shouldn't have ever been "ruthless" or evil just for the hell of it. A renegade option should've been more indicative of an anti-hero. After all, we're not the villain.

 

Well, when I said ruthless, what I really meant was being the "Results at all costs" and "Ends justifies the means" kind of person. This is what renegade Shepard was supposed to be. 

[Synthetic Turian]

Genocide...again, but this time, with aliens with humanoid faces.

 

There will be images of alien children dying this time as well.

 

You might even have to endure their suffering cries for help.

 

Sorry, I got lost in the evil there for a moment.

 

Nah. Realistically? You'll end up pushing some random faceless merc out of a window again. 

[omgodzilla]

In a linear game no matter how many choices you have you'll always get funneled. It's a matter of resources. They can't make three separate games.

 

I thought that ME2 did feel like a completely different game when you played paragon vs when you played renegade. The personalities were so different. You likely will get funneled but that doesn't mean they can't add a bit of diversity to the morality system. 

[SNascimento]

All they have to do is look to ME2. It nailed renegade options with extreme prejudice. "You're working too hard". 

[Dabrikishaw]

I never had a problem with the Renegade actions we had in the trilogy, but some Renegade outcomes do bug me. The Renegade ending to Project Overlord for example.

[omgodzilla]

Genocide...again, but this time, with aliens with humanoid faces.

 

There will be images of alien children dying this time as well.

 

You might even have to endure their suffering cries for help.

 

Sorry, I got lost in the evil there for a moment.

 

Meh, the genophage sabotage wasn't that bad. There were some very valid reasons to do it. By sabotaging it, you were risking the loss of Krogan support but were guaranteed Salarian support. By not taking the sabotage route, you were guaranteed Krogan support but were also guaranteed the loss of Salarian support. Strategically, it made sense to go with the sabotage route, especially since we were engaged in an apocalyptic, galaxy-ending war. In addition to that, there were also some valid reasons to believe that the Krogan weren't ready for a cure, especially if Wreav was in charge, since he makes it clear that he wants to be a conquerer. It wasn't really an evil choice at all. It was a difficult choice that had to be made (according to some), due to the extreme situation we were placed in. The same could be said to justify America's use of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 

 

Unless you're talking about the Quarian genocide, which wasn't even a renegade option. If you can't do the persuasion, then you have no choice but to kill off one species. That's not really Shepard's fault. The Quarians caused their own mess...

[omgodzilla]

All they have to do is look to ME2. It nailed renegade options with extreme prejudice. "You're working too hard". 

 

This. 

 

ME2 was such a masterpiece. I wanna push more mercs out of windows. 

[Dalakaar]

I felt that ME2 did feel like a completely different game when you played paragon vs when you played renegade. The personalities were so different. You likely will get funneled but that doesn't mean they can't add a bit of diversity to the morality system. 

Actually that kind of drives home what pissed me off the most about those decisions.

 

Basically all of them were trivialized in ME3. It was the middle game where your choices may have felt like they had weight, but they really didn't.

 

My first playthrough is a hardass infiltrator male shep sort of modeled after a roman imperator. I was fully willing to work with cerberus in ME2 because it justified the ends. In ME3 I found out that my choices were locked away and basically made to be pointless I lost interest in the game's "choices". (Which upon reflection paved the way for my ditching SP playthroughs and maxing my manifest in MP now I think about it.)

 

My Shepard would never have gone back to earth and relinquished the Normandy. If anything I would've taken control of Cerberus myself, which is what I was hoping for in the renegade side of things. I was always going to be a better TIM than TIM. Their resources, would become my resources.

 

Instead those choices all of a sudden made you look like a complete tool for working within Cerberus.

 

ME2 was the best of the series, but for those choices to have relevance beyond the feeling they give, they had to have impact. And ultimately, beyond seeing a reaper and a line or two about the collector station, they didn't.

 

No matter how "renegade" you get in ME:A, I doubt you'll really see any difference where it matters. And that's simply due to like I said, they can't make three separate games.

 

I'd love to see it done, but I don't think it ever will.

[In Exile]

Meh, the genophage sabotage wasn't that bad. There were some very valid reasons to do it. By sabotaging it, you were risking the loss of Krogan support but were guaranteed Salarian support. By not taking the sabotage route, you were guaranteed Krogan support but were also guaranteed the loss of Salarian support. Strategically, it made sense to go with the sabotage route, especially since we were engaged in an apocalyptic, galaxy-ending war. In addition to that, there were also some valid reasons to believe that the Krogan weren't ready for a cure, especially if Wreav was in charge, since he makes it clear that he wants to be a conquerer. It wasn't really an evil choice at all. It was a difficult choice that had to be made (according to some), due to the extreme situation we were placed in. The same could be said to justify America's use of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 

 

Unless you're talking about the Quarian genocide, which wasn't even a renegade option. If you can't do the persuasion, then you have no choice but to kill off one species. That's not really Shepard's fault. The Quarians caused their own mess...

 

Well, not really, because the Salarian position is rank insanity. If they actually believe the genophage cure is an equal or greater threat to the reapers, then allowing you to cure it at all is beyond stupid. And if they don't, then actively cutting of their nose to spite their face is equally stupid. So it becomes a contrived choice, much like Virmire. 

[omgodzilla]

Actually that kind of drives home what pissed me off the most about those decisions.

 

Basically all of them were trivialized in ME3. It was the middle game where your choices may have felt like they had weight, but they really didn't.

 

My first playthrough is a hardass infiltrator male shep sort of modeled after a roman imperator. I was fully willing to work with cerberus in ME2 because it justified the ends. In ME3 I found out that my choices were locked away and basically made to be pointless I lost interest in the game's "choices". (Which upon reflection paved the way for my ditching SP playthroughs and maxing my manifest in MP now I think about it.)

 

My Shepard would never have gone back to earth and relinquished the Normandy. If anything I would've taken control of Cerberus myself, which is what I was hoping for in the renegade side of things. I was always going to be a better TIM than TIM. Their resources, would become my resources.

 

Instead those choices all of a sudden made you look like a complete tool for working within Cerberus.

 

ME2 was the best of the series, but for those choices to have relevance beyond the feeling they give, they had to have impact. And ultimately, beyond seeing a reaper and a line or two about the collector station, they didn't.

 

No matter how "renegade" you get in ME:A, I doubt you'll really see any difference where it matters. And that's simply due to like I said, they can't make three separate games.

 

I'd love to see it done, but I don't think it ever will.

 

I agree, I also hated how they handled the Cerberus and renegade decisions in ME3. But they don't really have to make another trilogy with ME:A. I think they can pull off a stand alone game, where you decisions matter in the end. DAO pulled it off pretty nicely. They don't have to be huge galaxy changing decisions, but they can still make you feel like your choices had weight by adding some DAO style epilogue slides in the end, detailing what effect your choices had. 

[Synthetic Turian]

Meh, the genophage sabotage wasn't that bad. There were some very valid reasons to do it. By sabotaging it, you were risking the loss of Krogan support but were guaranteed Salarian support. By not taking the sabotage route, you were guaranteed Krogan support but were also guaranteed the loss of Salarian support. Strategically, it made sense to go with the sabotage route, especially since we were engaged in an apocalyptic, galaxy-ending war. In addition to that, there were also some valid reasons to believe that the Krogan weren't ready for a cure, especially if Wreav was in charge, since he makes it clear that he wants to be a conquerer. It wasn't really an evil choice at all. It was a difficult choice that had to be made (according to some), due to the extreme situation we were placed in. The same could be said to justify America's use of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 

 

Unless you're talking about the Quarian genocide, which wasn't even a renegade option. If you can't do the persuasion, then you have no choice but to kill off one species. That's not really Shepard's fault. The Quarians caused their own mess...

 

I was actually referring to the Rachni. But, wow, I'm glad that you refreshed my mind on those other two. 

[omgodzilla]

Well, not really, because the Salarian position is rank insanity. If they actually believe the genophage cure is an equal or greater threat to the reapers, then allowing you to cure it at all is beyond stupid. And if they don't, then actively cutting of their nose to spite their face is equally stupid. So it becomes a contrived choice, much like Virmire. 

 

Well the Salarians made their position with the assumption that everyone would survive the Reaper war. They were essentially planning for the post-Reaper future. They had valid reasons to be concerned. The Krogan have a ridiculously high birth rate and can survive war torn conditions better than any other species. They also have a history of aggressively expanding into the territory of other species and acting like assholes. Plus, the Krogan aren't exactly unified. Even in ME2, you saw that there were clans out there who didn't agree with Wrex and actively opposed him. What if some of these clans were to break off and start causing havoc? And that's with Wrex in charge. What if Wreav were there instead? He explicitly states that he wants to be a conquerer. Having him in charge of a rapidly growing population of Krogan is a disaster for everyone. Also, the Salarians had a pretty legit plan in making sure that the Krogan wouldn't find out what they were doing. I think they make a pretty strong case to join their side. If we tell them to **** off, we lose the support of one of the major powers in the galaxy. Salarian support likely played a crucial role in developing the crucible, seeing as how they are one of the most tech-savvy species out there. I still think its a more pragmatic decision to side with them instead of curing the genophage. 

[omgodzilla]

I was actually referring to the Rachni. But, wow, I'm glad that you refreshed my mind on those other two. 

 

Is that really genocide though? I thought it was just some bloody murder. Yeah, it does lead to extinction of the species but I was under the assumption that it only counts as genocide if it involves the deaths of large numbers of individuals. Then again, I'm not really an expert in these matters. 

[Synthetic Turian]

Is that really genocide though? I thought it was just some bloody murder. Yeah, it does lead to extinction of the species but I was under the assumption that it only counts as genocide if it involves the deaths of large numbers of individuals. Then again, I'm not really an expert in these matters. 

 

I assumed that when the queen died in ME1, she, and no more Rachnai would reappear in ME2/3. 

 

Spoiler

I was somewhat wrong, as the Reapers just make another one themselves.  

[omgodzilla]

I assumed that when the queen died in ME1, she, and no more Rachnai would reappear in ME2/3. 

 

Spoiler

I was somewhat wrong, as the Reapers just make another one.  

 

Yeah, that was some major bullshit right there. But it did reaffirm my notion that it was risky to let the Rachni Queen go.

[Tiina]

Hope they will go as far as it is possible

[In Exile]

Well the Salarians made their position with the assumption that everyone would survive the Reaper war. They were essentially planning for the post-Reaper future. They had valid reasons to be concerned. The Krogan have a ridiculously high birth rate and can survive war torn conditions better than any other species. They also have a history of aggressively expanding into the territory of other species and acting like assholes. Plus, the Krogan aren't exactly unified. Even in ME2, you saw that there were clans out there who didn't agree with Wrex and actively opposed him. What if some of these clans were to break off and start causing havoc? And that's with Wrex in charge. What if Wreav were there instead? He explicitly states that he wants to be a conquerer. Having him in charge of a rapidly growing population of Krogan is a disaster for everyone. Also, the Salarians had a pretty legit plan in making sure that the Krogan wouldn't find out what they were doing. I think they make a pretty strong case to join their side. If we tell them to **** off, we lose the support of one of the major powers in the galaxy. Salarian support likely played a crucial role in developing the crucible, seeing as how they are one of the most tech-savvy species out there. I still think its a more pragmatic decision to side with them instead of curing the genophage. 

 

You're missing my point. If the Salarians assume they'll survive the war, allowing you to cure the genophage is complete insanity. They should be actively sabotaging you and opposing you. The conversation, from this POV is like this:

 

1. Salarians: Curing the genophage is an absolute disaster that will cost the lives of billions. Only a madman would do it. Don't.

2. Shepard: Totes will do it. 

3. Salarians: Ok. We will do absolutely nothing to stop you even though we think this is worse (or as bad) as the army of genocidal robots currently running death camps on a scale actually incomprehensible. Laterz! 

[themikefest]

I like to see more renegade choices. Too bad ME3 didn't have more renegade in the game

ME2 wasn't bad.

[Synthetic Turian]

Yeah, that was some major bullshit right there. But it did reaffirm my notion that it was risky to let the Rachni Queen go.

 

Once I saw that, I immediately got a bad feeling about the ending. I thought: "Damn, it's like my decision didn't even matter. They better matter in the ending." 

 

And, well, the rest was depressing history.

 

Thank God for multiplayer, it took my mind off of my overwhelming depression.

 

Multiplayer! 

 

Spoiler

Multiplayer.

[omgodzilla]

You're missing my point. If the Salarians assume they'll survive the war, allowing you to cure the genophage is complete insanity. They should be actively sabotaging you and opposing you. The conversation, from this POV is like this:

 

1. Salarians: Curing the genophage is an absolute disaster that will cost the lives of billions. Only a madman would do it. Don't.

2. Shepard: Totes will do it. 

3. Salarians: Ok. We will do absolutely nothing to stop you even though we think this is worse (or as bad) as the army of genocidal robots currently running death camps on a scale actually incomprehensible. Laterz! 

 

Okay, yeah I agree that a bit more resistance from the Salarian would've been nice to see. They do sabotage you in a sense that they remove all of their support. I guess that's just an issue of BIoware not having enough resources to add in that extra bit of sabotage from the Salarians. I'm not really sure how they would've done it. Maybe, they could've sent in some STG guys to try and assassinate Mordin, or Padok, etc. 

[In Exile]

Okay, yeah I agree that a bit more resistance from the Salarian would've been nice to see. They do sabotage you in a sense that they remove all of their support. I guess that's just an issue of BIoware not having enough resources to add in that extra bit of sabotage from the Salarians. I'm not really sure how they would've done it. Maybe, they could've sent in some STG guys to try and assassinate Mordin, or Padok, etc. 

 

That's exactly it. That gives weight to the choice. Though personally, I think it should have been Mordin they send to kill it. I disagree with PW on this view of the genophage and the thematically correct outcome. But anyway, my issue is that it's all a bit of a false dillema. It's not get our troops or not. This is usually what I dislike about the renegade choice - it's always constructed around this kind of strange nonsense logic or scenario. The choice itself can, on the right facts, be defensible, but Bioware goes out of their way to often create totally screwy facts. 

[Giantdeathrobot]

Well, not really, because the Salarian position is rank insanity. If they actually believe the genophage cure is an equal or greater threat to the reapers, then allowing you to cure it at all is beyond stupid. And if they don't, then actively cutting of their nose to spite their face is equally stupid. So it becomes a contrived choice, much like Virmire. 

 

Yeah, that was a beef for me too. The Salarians seem more spiteful than anything. If they truly believed that the Krogans were such a threat that they outranked the giant space monsters currently, and literally, exterminating the galaxy, wouldn't they do more than just throw harsh words at Shepard?

 

And the Salarian thinking everyone will survive the war would be less inane if, you know, they actually did anything to achieve that. But they are one of the least active races against the Reapers; only the STG seems willing to make a stand, and by disobeying orders no less. It's mostly why I cured the Genophage; while I am concerned of the future Krogan's behavior and needs, at least they don't act like passive-aggressive prima donnas about it all and are willing to fight the damn Reapers which is what I need right now.

 

As for the topic, I think ME2 did Renegade the best; ruthless in the pursuit of their goal, but also kinda funny. ME1 Renegade was a racist douche, and ME3 Renegade was an overly edgy scumbag. I mean, shooting Samara's daughter after allowing her mom to suicide? What kind of heartless sociopath does such a thing, seriously.