33 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

That is, to break through the stereotype which is so tempting to allow yourself to be limited by.

I'm not looking to subvert it, though. Some people like playing a non-religious, anti tradition elf and that's fine, but that isn't my thing. What I'm looking for is to embrace it but expand beyond that.

A person who does care about such things but could be given a longer description than just "He's Dalish".

Just look at Velanna. Her entire dialogue consists of " humans suck" and general elf related stuff. Oh, and she cares about her sister. Any nameless Dalish npc would act the same way. She doesn't stand out as an individual.

Now, the challenge is that people are shaped by their experiences. What kind of experiences could a Dalish hunter possibly have? They know so little of the world and aren't influenced by politics, economy or any of the concerns that make one's life more complicated.

I'd imagine they tend to be very simple minded people. Very little thought beyond "I need to kill that deer and bring food for the clan". Once a hunter is done with that task, it's a whole day of nothing ahead of him.

[Bolt]

I just started a new Dalish hunter this evening.  For me, the idea was he saw all the people at Haven, the Breach in the sky, and realized the world was bigger than his clan.  I am role-playing him as a fish-out-of-water type (asking Varric if he was part of the Chantry, for example), and a bit grouchy at the shemlen who press-ganged him into service.  But he generally has a good heart and doesn't want people to suffer.  So, he is going to be a very reluctant and cautious Inquisitor.

 

I agree that it is way too easy to fall into the stereotype.  But there's fun to be had in trying to plan out new character arcs.  This is my fourth Dalish hunter. 

[Qun00]

I'd say the fish out of water part is pretty mandatory.

Can't have a Dalish Inquisitor saying "Ohh yes, I find Free Marches politics most fascinating. But my true passion is Antivan cuisine."

[Korva]

They'd have all the experiences of being providers and vanguards for a nomadic people that are shall we say not exactly welcome in many places and that wholly rely on them for survival. Long hours of trying to find prey, tracking it, getting close enough for a good shot. Sometimes they'd miss and go hungry, and the clan with them. Sometimes they'd have to contend with other predators for their kill ... and possibly lose and have to high-tail it outta there, maybe even injured. Then there's scouting for threats (anything from cranky humans to places where the Veil is too thin and hostile spirits tend to roam), safe water sources and campsites. Even if the clan tries to stick to the same general routes, bad weather or hostiles can force significant detours. At the end of the day, there's gear maintenance and such to consider. All in all, they're bound to lead extremely demanding lives and have quite a wide range of skills, just not the sort of skills that a powder-arsed noble would consider worthy of consideration and respect. Little formal education, but lots and lots of hands-on, do-or-die experience related to independent survival.

 

Maybe they're arachnophobic because of that time in their youth when a giant spider jumped them, and instead of letting the spider have the juicy deer they foolishly tried to fight and nearly died before being saved by an older hunter. Maybe they can't look at a fast-flowing river without remembering the aravel (and the half-dozen kids inside it) that got washed away in a bad current when the clan underestimated the spring floods. Maybe they proudly show off the scars of that time a bear got into the camp and they helped fight it off close and personal, being hailed as a hero and treated to choice cuts of the carcass afterwards.

 

Such a hunter might shoulder all that willingly, or they might envy the comparably comfy lives that the crafters and mages lead at their expense. They might look up to mages as special and closer to the vaunted ancestors, or they might resent the notion that a mage gets to call the shots just because of having magic. They might be jaded, simple-minded and intolerant as a result of their hard life, or have the mental agility, craftiness and sense of responsibility for the weak to seize the unique opportunities that land in their lap during the game's story and try to use them to make their people a little safer, and the downtrodden of all races too. And so on, lots of possibilities. I imagine that they could strike up cautious friendships with scouts among the Inquisition, and see their clans struggles reflected in the lives of the many refugees ... and come to feel protective of them as a result.

 

(I considered playing an elf, too, but I just can't stomach the painfully scrawny character model so the idea gets shelved every time.)

Modifié par Korva, 30 novembre 2015 - 04:17 .

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I thinkyou can actually roleplay a dalish hunter who is familiar with human civilization (or at least interested in it) b/c of the more liberal stance of Keeper Deshanna. Its notated in the codex entry about Clan Lavellan, and in the backstory text you get when making a Dalish hunter at the start of the game, that your keeper is interested in human affairs (sends a spy to the conclave) and also has the clan trade with free marcher cities, I believe. I just RP'ed that my Lavellan was of the same mind as her Keeper and was one of the hunters who dealt with outsiders more when trade happened. She got to know a few of their regular trade partners and their goods and developed interests and preferences. Might have even entered a marketplace or two.

 

There's an in-game lore basis that allows for it, is my point.

[Korva]

Much more to the point than my waffling. Basically, yes, a Dalish doesn't have to be closed-off and hostile to outsiders anymore than a Chantry-follower has to be a fire-and-brimstone zealot.

[Shizukai]

Great topic

 

Roleplaying means that you imagine yourself to be someone else. Every person is defined by her/his basic

mindset plus the enviromental influences plus experience. 

 

But you are not only imagening what a person you would be if you had grown up and would live in another

world, surrounded by different people and different problems. When you are roleplaying, you are limiting (or extending) 

things like knowledge and skills. You accept yourself as "one version of a being". And then you try to be another.

Good roleplaying needs empathy, imagination and a comprehension about how different factors and 

influences change a person's mind and therefore her/his actions.

 

I'd imagine they tend to be very simple minded people. Very little thought beyond "I need to kill that deer and bring food for the clan". Once a hunter is done with that task, it's a whole day of nothing ahead of him.

 

This is one approach. A very down-to-earth one.

 

Imagining a character sheet like in pen&paper-roleplaying games (D&D for example) he would have some skills regarding

 

- hunting (practical/theoretical)

- wildlife/animals (within this particular degree of latitude at least, knowing their marks)

- herbs (to heal, to poison, to eat, to feed, to use as a bait)

 

- weapon using (bow/dagger)

- skin animals (for leather and fur)

 

Because a hunter is confronted with the rough face of nature every day he needs to be able to handle himself:

 

- body strength

- agility

- a good immune system (resistance to cold/diseases)

- stealth skills (in order to being able to approach his prey)

 

But he is not only a hunter,he is a Dalish. So there's also some knowledge about

 

- Dalish elves (daily life, how they behave, structure of clans...)

- Dalish language

- Dalish legends/songs

 

At last, there are maybe some personal interests. Nothing fancy. maybe he just likes to

 

- carve little figures out of wood or

- loves to brawl with the othery young man within the clan (this would result in some skills regarding unarmed battle, wrestling)

 

..........

All of this is still not including things as future plans and dreams, fears and weaknesses.

 

Just some ideas to point out, that there is no "very simple character who knows nothing" or something like that.

Each being has it's very own way of existing and surviving, of making it through this day and the next one.

They are not limited to one dimension of their existence. A good rpg-character is like a real life person:

 

They do not stop to exist because you stopped thinking of them.

[Tidus]

The Dalish is a hard people to understand some clans hate Shemlins but, will still trade at small villages as needed while other clans tolerate shemlins to a certain point. You see some Nobels will allow a clan to stay on their lands for months.Having live off the land since birth the Dalish would be a strong muscular people including the females since they may have to carry a boar or deer for miles back to their camp plus the need to chop trees down for fire wood and for a corral for the Halla.

 

As a Dalish  hunter you would have encountered Shemlins on your hunts so,you may be familiar with their ways since not all humans hate the Dalish or city elves.

 

I prefer playing the Dalish hunter in DA:I.

[Wulfram]

The Keeper would logically send someone who is relatively good at dealing with humans to the conclave.

[Qun00]

Much more to the point than my waffling. Basically, yes, a Dalish doesn't have to be closed-off and hostile to outsiders anymore than a Chantry-follower has to be a fire-and-brimstone zealot.

Waffling is fine, it helps a great deal with immersion.

The Keeper would logically send someone who is relatively good at dealing with humans to the conclave.

You are a spy, not an ambassador.

[Gervaise]

I played my Dalish as not just a hunter but also a protector of the clan.   Either way you need to understand your prey/enemies.     He was good at scouting, tracking, studying the landscape to identify dangers or potential prey.     He knew how to deal with different creatures that he encountered and that included other races.    These skills are transferrable.   He didn't need to be experienced in dealing with humans on a regular basis, just adaptable enough to use his abilities to study them and not provoke an attack.   He volunteered for the task of spying on the Conclave because he knew he was the best suited to watching and listening, learning the information he needed to protect is clan in the future.  He had the maturity over other hunters that meant he could be patient and calm rather than rushing to find an answer.   Also he was resilient and experienced in looking after himself in the wild, so capable of surviving in a potentially hostile environment.  

 

I also added in some extra story of my own that the Keeper had a policy of helping travellers they encountered because it was a useful way of gathering information about what was happening in the wider world, which in turn could help them avoid areas of perceived danger.   So my hunter did have some experience of dealing with strangers and encouraging them to talk.     Then I decided that they had helped a party of travellers who were being attacked by bandits, only to discover they were a party of Chantry sisters on the way to the Conclave.   This was how they discovered what was going on and what encouraged the Keeper's interest in the matter.    So the Keeper volunteered his services to help them on their way and that gave him a legitimate reason to be there.  

 

To be honest I have never understood, otherwise, how their clan came to know of the Conclave or why the Keeper would send someone all the way from the Freemarches to attend.  How would they even know where to go?    How would they pay for travel across the sea?    Would security really be so lax that his presence wouldn't be noticed?      My little extra background got over this issue and also allowed for him to pick up a fair bit of information from his fellow travellers on the journey.

[Wulfram]

You are a spy, not an ambassador.

I know, but being a spy still seems like it requires people skills. Sneaking can only go so far, the easiest and best way to get information is to talk to people. I mean, look at the spies in the Inquisition - Iron Bull and Leliana.

Just making the journey alone would be aided by the ability to win a bit of trust.

[Ghost Gal]

Think of them as people first, Dalish second.

 

You'll come up with a richer personality beyond the simplistic, one-note stereotype.

[berelinde]

You could roleplay a Dalish hunter who was tasked with spying on the conclave because he or she was already quite well versed in human customs and culture. Who knows? Maybe he or she really does have a passion for Antivan cuisine, a fondness acquired while negotiating a trade deal in Antiva City. It's unlikely the Dalish would have entered human cities as a group, but there's no reason why merchants might not invite a representative in to trade Dalish goods (Dalish cheese!) for items they don't make themselves. In The Masked Empire, Michel de Chevin watches Dalish children eating peasant bread and it triggers unpleasant memories. The clan he and Celene stumbled across was generally hostile to humans, but even they must trade with them sometimes. You can make bread from acorn or chestunut flour, but without wheat flour to hold it together, it would be too crumbly to spread anything on it. They don't farm, so the only way they'd acquire wheat flour is through trade.

[nightscrawl]

What kind of experiences could a Dalish hunter possibly have? They know so little of the world and aren't influenced by politics, economy or any of the concerns that make one's life more complicated.

I'd imagine they tend to be very simple minded people. Very little thought beyond "I need to kill that deer and bring food for the clan". Once a hunter is done with that task, it's a whole day of nothing ahead of him.

I think you are making the Dalish experience more limiting than it probably is. True, a Dalish will not have much experience with the human world, but that doesn't mean they lead simple lives. And as for politics, every group will have their own small brand of politics, hierarchies, quid pro quos, and so on. If you think that every member of a clan treats every other member with kindness, respect, and love, you are sorely mistaken. Any sort of social animal with any level of intelligence has group structure based around this. But within a Dalish clan these will be based around things that pertain to the clan, or around relations with other clans (yes, I know these are extremely limited, and in some cases non-existent). I rather doubt that the decennial clan meeting is totally devoid of any politics, particularly since we know that they can really differ from one another.

 

Also, regarding participation in human politics and transitioning to dealing with The Game and so on, one doesn't have to be familiar with all the ins and outs (and who is doing the in and outing) of the various nobles in order to be successful, although that helps. All that is needed is the ability to read people, a cynical attitude and realization that most people are only out for themselves, and the ability to keep yourself guarded; the addition of some wit is helpful, but not required. Knowing when to remain silent is sometimes more beneficial than cracking wise. So, you certainly can have a cynical, crafty Dalish who is able to quickly learn the nuances of The Game and play it well.

 

And I say all this as someone who is not really into elves in a general sense, the Dalish in particular, and has no interest in making one.

[Ghost Gal]

Waffling is fine, it helps a great deal with immersion.

You are a spy, not an ambassador.

How do you think most spies get their information? By blending in, passing as part of the local populace, being able to get close enough to hear, interact, and ask questions without letting the other person know it's for an ulterior motive.

Spying is not all hiding in bushes in the distance looking through binoculars; you have to be able to blend in with the people as well as the scenery.

Lavellan has the option to say at one point that their clan often traded with local human villages. Since Hunter Lavellan is specifically stated to have been the clans' sole source of food, you can play it as, since your hunter caught most of the meats and furs the clan traded with villagers, s/he did most of the bartering and haggling since s/he understood their worth. You can look at it as being sent to spy on humans because s/he knew best how to interact with them without rousing suspicion or hostility.

[Qun00]

While I did use the word "spy", there is no such a thing in the Dalish clans and thus it can't be compared to the actual profession.

An elf who's been sent to observe isn't going to use the strategies which an Orlesian bard would.

[Medhia_Nox]

I would be very interested in feedback from anyone who's going to play a Dalish that is going to oppose Solas ideologically.  

 

I don't like elves and will likely not be able to force myself into a playthru - but I am very interested in any dialogue Solas has with an elf who has the audacity not to worship him.

[Gervaise]

I'm going to oppose him ideologically.   I might have started the game as a narrow minded Dalish elf but my guy actually learned to appreciate other races from his interaction with them.    He has nothing but contempt for their rulers but then it turns out the evanuris were no different (according to Solas) so it would appear that being a selfish, self serving, cruel, greedy, manipulative leaders of people, who keep their word when it suits them, isn't restricted to any particular race.      He has serious objections to anyone who would destroy his world as he rather likes the place with all its multitude of landscapes, cultures and creatures.      His clan's experience in Wycome has shown there is potential for the Dalish engaging and working with their neighbours without surrendering their freedoms and actually achieving a better outcome for everyone (except the corrupt nobles).   He got on very well with the Avaar and is quite sure that with the right leadership there are enough wild places they could set up an elven community that could stand as a refuge for those who wanted it; the Arbor Wilds spring to mind since Abelas and his lot have now vacated them but there have to be others.    He's pretty sure that the majority of elves, Dalish and city, don't particularly want to be cavorting around with spirits in the Fade and creating amazing magical structures but simply want a better life than they currently enjoy, without the constant fear of persecution and abuse.   In any case, none of the modern elves are going to survive the dropping of the Veil (in their current form at least); Solas said so.

 

Solas has made it quite clear that his Dalish family and friends will die along with his friends from among the other races and his lover.     So he will fight him tooth and nail.    His biggest challenge as he sees it is to stop the other fools running off to join Solas because he will likely end up having no choice but to kill them too if they get in his way, which he would rather avoid if he can.   He knows how good Solas is at fooling people and convincing them he is on their side.  

 

My regret is that I couldn't respond more strongly to his face when I had the chance (because the writers wouldn't let me).   For example, when he says, "Because I'm not a monster," I very much wanted to scream back at him "YES YOU ARE."    

[straykat]

I prefer the Warden far more for Dalish.. so easy to roleplay (in multiple ways). It's surprising how popular they suddenly are. The Inquisition wasn't very conducive to it...or anything else for that matter. Despite the source of the mark.

[Apo]

I prefer the Warden far more for Dalish.. so easy to roleplay (in multiple ways). It's surprising how popular they suddenly are.

 

Me too, and that's because we had to play the origin so we can walk and talk through the camp with our clan and give.

The dalish inquisitor isn't hard to roleplay I must say, except for the lake of lines in dialogues where we can use elvish language for example, or having suddenly no clue about elven culture (arbor wilds and temple of Mythal).

[Qun00]

While we're at it, I have one more question.

An elf who chooses a certain vallaslin doesn't have to be like the elven god it represents in every way, but there has to be something that draws him/her to that option. Something s/he admires.

I considered going with Elgar'nan, but he is only ever remembered for being ruthless. Nothing else. So, would it be unfitting for a peace loving character?

I'm only in doubt because oh so motherly Ashalle had Elgar'nan's vallaslin. But maybe there were darker shades to the woman and we never knew, ha ha.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I have only played Dalish as a mage, one that was sent to the conclave in hopes that she would find the outside world facinating enough to leave for since she was a spare mage. And, ig the humans killed her, it would not be a great loss to the clan so, she was a good choice. She starts out being unfamiliar with shemlen ways but, she has to be observant and, cunning to survive as a nomad so, it doesn't take her long to catch on and, find herself enjoying the human world.

[Gold Dragon]

While we're at it, I have one more question.

An elf who chooses a certain vallaslin doesn't have to be like the elven god it represents in every way, but there has to be something that draws him/her to that option. Something s/he admires.

I considered going with Elgar'nan, but he is only ever remembered for being ruthless. Nothing else. So, would it be unfitting for a peace loving character?

I'm only in doubt because oh so motherly Ashalle had Elgar'nan's vallaslin. But maybe there were darker shades to the woman and we never knew, ha ha.

 

All things considered, Mythal's or Fen'harel's Vallaslin might be the most provocative....

[Patchwork]

All things considered, Mythal's or Fen'harel's Vallaslin might be the most provocative....

 

If there was ever a Fen'harel vallaslin the Dalish aren't using it. Solas probably destroyed all record of it.

 

But I'm not sure why you think Mythal's would be provocative? The mother protector, dispenser of justice seems like a very common vallaslin.

 

Agreed about Elgar'nan, we don't know anything about him beside the whole vengeance thing so I guess the ones who choose it are either kinda angry or just think the vines look cool.