38 réponses à ce sujet

[Gaaxure]

I'm probably beating a dead horse here. But did anyone else feel like they got screwed over at Thessia? I mean What the actual !#%@ (Im not certain what's the local policy on swearing is and I'm not taking any chances) ... I take down Atlas mechs with this god damn gun. What the hell's that hair made of? I unload 10 shots from the Widow in his greasy head and it didn't even mess up his haircut?! And to add an insult to an injury turns out Shepard has photophobia... I mean OK we lost the catalyst but don't give me this **** & bull story about master assasin. Bring in tanks, gunships(which they had but only used it as a flashlight), overwhelming manpower... whatever. And it's acceptable. Just not a bulletproof assassin, I'm not buying it.

 

 

 

EDIT: Also, say what you want about COD series, but they know how to handle cutscene defeat. MW does it best.

Modifié par Gaaxure, 30 novembre 2015 - 06:18 .

[Dalakaar]

lol

[Vigilance97]

Yeah, his shields are just that strong. Which raises 3 questions:

 

1. Why didn't TIM give Shep access to these shields? Would've been damn useful on the Suicide Mission. I guess he didn't have it back then? Him developing this technology in 6 months is really convenient.

 

2. Why the hell does the guy with the impenetrable shields use a sword when barriers are basically useless against anything slower than a bullet?

 

3. Why doesn't Shepard just stab his ass with the omniblade?

[gothpunkboy89]

There are always 2 set ups going on any game.

 

Story

and

Game Play Mechanics

 

For example game play mechanics is why 3 people can run though hordes of Reaper forces even though every other well trained military can barely hold their own against them.  It isn't just Shep and 2 squad mates. It is the entire team fighting their way though. How ever for game play reasons only 2 other characters come with you.

[Vigilance97]

For example game play mechanics is why 3 people can run though hordes of Reaper forces even though every other well trained military can barely hold their own against them.  It isn't just Shep and 2 squad mates. It is the entire team fighting their way though. How ever for game play reasons only 2 other characters come with you.

IIRC Javik has different comments on the Normandy depending on weather or not you take him on certain missions. Something about Reaper-killing and "I would have liked to have seen it.".

 

The same thing happens in DA:I, very frequently. It's clear in that game that the Companions you take with you are the only ones there, and I think the same is true in Mass Effect.

[BronzTrooper]

2. Why the hell does the guy with the impenetrable shields use a sword when barriers are basically useless against anything slower than a bullet?

 

Same reason why Phantoms can summon a barrier that protects them from abilities like Concussive Shot and Throw, but leaves them completely vulnerable to bullets.

 

Also:

[cap and gown]

Yeah, his shields are just that strong. Which raises 3 questions:

 

1. Why didn't TIM give Shep access to these shields? Would've been damn useful on the Suicide Mission. I guess he didn't have it back then? Him developing this technology in 6 months is really convenient.

 

Well, in ME2 you had a 1 second shield gate, even on insanity. TIM obviously was working on an even better shield gate and finally developed one that can last as long as a set piece battle. The Alliance, OTOH, was still working with old tech.

[The Real Pearl #2]

On the topic of the pansy raiden wannabe Does anyone know if it's possible to gib him? Or at least shoot his head off with a shotgun? Or is his plot armor that strong that he can't be gibbed or mangled in game? 

 

And i agree, His gunship prevented me from ending the fight early, He is weak sauce. Honestly i have never been sync killed by him. Probably the one of the worst boss fights in my opinion. 

[Dantriges]

IIRC someone mentioned here, that he kept lashing the guy for several minutes but doesn´t matter. You have to let him go into the cutscene where he kicks your ass to proceed.

[themikefest]

That whole thing was a joke.

 

I would've just had Kai Leng call for the gunship to fire at the supports after TIM and Shepard finished talking instead of having the waste-of-time-fight-that-amounted-to-nothing.

 

The other thing is if you're going to label the guy as an assassin, then make him an assassin. Instead of sticking his sword in the ground, he should've stabbed Liara, who again showed why she shouldn't be a squadmate, killing her instead of throwing her across the screen. I will admit I found it funny watching her fly through the air like a sack of potatoes

Spoiler

 

The other thing is in ME2, Shepard and squad are able to destroy, I believe one, might be two gunships, but in ME3 Shepard can't do that. Yeah I know the thing was firing at Shepard's position, but why couldn't the squadmates fire at the gunship? And no the light has no effect. Just shoot the light and that problem is solved.

[themikefest]

IIRC someone mentioned here, that he kept lashing the guy for several minutes but doesn´t matter. You have to let him go into the cutscene where he kicks your ass to proceed.

Yep. I did that on Thessia and had to reload because he got stuck behind one of the benches and couldn't cry to his mommy that he needed to recharge.

 

On Chronos, using lash too much will prevent him from recharging 3 times. I killed him, but nothing happened. When I reloaded, I let him do his recharge 3 times, then lashed the clown to death. He's nothing but a punk with a sword.

[Gaaxure]

There are always 2 set ups going on any game.

 

Story

and

Game Play Mechanics

 

For example game play mechanics is why 3 people can run though hordes of Reaper forces even though every other well trained military can barely hold their own against them.  It isn't just Shep and 2 squad mates. It is the entire team fighting their way though. How ever for game play reasons only 2 other characters come with you.

It doesn't make sense in either respect.

Story-wise it's absurd because: Why would you even let this douche talk?! To borrow Shepard's own words He's "surrounded by Geth and pointing a gun at us...SHOOT HER"(him actually, but whatever, you get the point). At this point in the game it's an established fact that Kai is an assassin and all around bad guy. Since when has Hackett updated the RoE to "return fire only". This isn't Mogadishu in 93, we're in a war for galactic survival goddamnit. And in in-game universe it's pretty clear that shields or no, bullets kill people.

 

As for game mechanics, It makes even less sense. When I was talking about not even making a dent, I meant story wise, If that cutscene hasn't intervened Illusive man would have to fund another project Lazarus. Kai wasn't winning that fight, he was all but dead. How does that fit into coherent gameplay? Also, about Shepard mowing down hordes of enemies. If you consider that on the insanity 3-4 direct hits means you're dead, and that Were it more realistic *any* competent officer would dispatch at least a platoon sized unit to carry out the tasks Shep and his team handle. I think combat balances itself out.

[BronzTrooper]

It doesn't make sense in either respect.

 

In this case, that is definitely true.

 

As for the squad-size thing, first, the vast majority of the forces in the galaxy are engaged with the Reapers or preparing to engage them, so there's not exactly a lot of spare troops running around.  Second, Shep is a Spectre, and a N7, meaning that s/he's a highly skilled commando, which can also be said for most of Shep's crew despite them not having the same titles as Shep (barring Ashley/Kaidan, since they both become Spectres).  As a military asset, the Normandy crew can be worth a platoon on their own.

 

I agree that it's not the best thing to do, but it is better than sending a bunch of raw recruits after hardened Cerberus troops/Reaper-controlled Geth/Reaper ground forces.

[Gaaxure]

In this case, that is definitely true.

 

As for the squad-size thing, first, the vast majority of the forces in the galaxy are engaged with the Reapers or preparing to engage them, so there's not exactly a lot of spare troops running around.  Second, Shep is a Spectre, and a N7, meaning that s/he's a highly skilled commando, which can also be said for most of Shep's crew despite them not having the same titles as Shep (barring Ashley/Kaidan, since they both become Spectres).  As a military asset, the Normandy crew can be worth a platoon on their own.

 

I agree that it's not the best thing to do, but it is better than sending a bunch of raw recruits after hardened Cerberus troops/Reaper-controlled Geth/Reaper ground forces.

I think you got me wrong. What I was trying to say was that due to game mechanics it's perfectly acceptable that 3 man team takes down roughly company size unit on every mission. It doesn't ruin immersion at all cause realistically you'd have your whole squad there. And team that size and competence will have little problem carving through legion of mooks. So AI's poor tactics are balanced out with your small numbers.

[gothpunkboy89]

IIRC Javik has different comments on the Normandy depending on weather or not you take him on certain missions. Something about Reaper-killing and "I would have liked to have seen it.".

 

The same thing happens in DA:I, very frequently. It's clear in that game that the Companions you take with you are the only ones there, and I think the same is true in Mass Effect.

 

 

And yet for some reason the entire much larger crew decides to cram into 1 shuttle thus allowing the Collectors to capture the crew besides Joker in ME2.

 

Which would mean logically that every mission you do even though you take only 2 people with you they all cram into the shuttle and wait?

[gothpunkboy89]

It doesn't make sense in either respect.

Story-wise it's absurd because: Why would you even let this douche talk?! To borrow Shepard's own words He's "surrounded by Geth and pointing a gun at us...SHOOT HER"(him actually, but whatever, you get the point). At this point in the game it's an established fact that Kai is an assassin and all around bad guy. Since when has Hackett updated the RoE to "return fire only". This isn't Mogadishu in 93, we're in a war for galactic survival goddamnit. And in in-game universe it's pretty clear that shields or no, bullets kill people.

 

As for game mechanics, It makes even less sense. When I was talking about not even making a dent, I meant story wise, If that cutscene hasn't intervened Illusive man would have to fund another project Lazarus. Kai wasn't winning that fight, he was all but dead. How does that fit into coherent gameplay? Also, about Shepard mowing down hordes of enemies. If you consider that on the insanity 3-4 direct hits means you're dead, and that Were it more realistic *any* competent officer would dispatch at least a platoon sized unit to carry out the tasks Shep and his team handle. I think combat balances itself out.

 

He let him talk because the Illusive Man wanted to talk to him. Which is the story element in it. Giving the player yet another chance to try and stop him from his current path that fails.

 

Because you have to beat him to progress game play wise. Story wise how ever he was able to hold his own against Shepard though not very well. Hence the calling in of the air support. Realistically the fight would end after that first airship is called in. How ever game play reasons that would be extremely boring to have happen. So you get him recharging his shield a couple of times and hiding from air ship a couple of times.

 

The speed at which things are killed on any given difficult are irrelevant to the story. Those are game play mechanics introduced to allow players to have a harder more challenging play though.

 

And that is my point. While it doesn't show it in game each time you go on a mission you take your entire team with you. That is the only reason why you would be able to pull off any of the things you manage to. Ripping into a reaper invading Thessia in a way that even all the highly skilled, highly biotic Asari Commando's can't even do. Doesn't make any sense for just 3 people.

 

Suicide mission in ME2 I think gives best set up of what actually happens on missions.

[fraggle]

And yet for some reason the entire much larger crew decides to cram into 1 shuttle thus allowing the Collectors to capture the crew besides Joker in ME2.

 

That was likely only to advance the plot to have only the crew abducted, not the squad mates, because they had to be available to the player afterwards.

In ME3 you can always see it's just the 2 people with Shepard you picked in the shuttle, and as Vigilance97 said, Javik comments on this, as well as James. Their comments can change depending on whether you brought them to missions or not.

[Dantriges]

Miranda said before the fake "mission" before the collector attack, everyone can hop into the shuttle so Shep can choose on site whom to take on the mission. Yeah it´s stupid, but it seems that you chose two squaddies  and the rest just sat in the shuttle. Seems that the usual routine is, that you pick two guys, the rest chills on the Normandy, which they couldn´t this time, as the Normandy was far away and Shep wanted the luxury to bench the rest at the mission site.

[cap and gown]

I have posted this elsewhere, but I think I will repeat it here: the story and the game play could have been better integrated in this scene and in a number of other scenes throughout the series.

 

In this case, the story point is to make Shepard feel defeated. Yet the lameness of Kai Leng makes it hard to feel that sense of defeat. So how can we ensure Shepard is defeated through game play so that it fits with the story?

 

One way might involve an infinite stream of mooks dropping in to support Leng. If the cover was destructable, then having the gunship blow away all the cover positions might be another way. No matter what, though, Leng is going to have to have plot armor. It just needs to be less obvious by creating additional problems for Shepard besides only dealing with Leng; you need to distract the player so he/she isn't as conscious of the plot armor.

[Gaaxure]

The speed at which things are killed on any given difficult are irrelevant to the story.

That's why I listed it under gameplay.

 

 

 

He let him talk because the Illusive Man wanted to talk to him. Which is the story element in it. Giving the player yet another chance to try and stop him from his current path that fails.

 

Because you have to beat him to progress game play wise. Story wise how ever he was able to hold his own against Shepard though not very well. Hence the calling in of the air support. Realistically the fight would end after that first airship is called in. How ever game play reasons that would be extremely boring to have happen. So you get him recharging his shield a couple of times and hiding from air ship a couple of times.

There was literally zero reasons to let him talk aside from "plot needs to progress somehow".  And you're mixing the gameplay into story and vice-versa. The whole episode was handled poorly. There's bunch of ways they could have handled this in a way that made more sense for gameplay and for story.

 

1) Make Kai virtually unbeatable opponent, when your medi-gel supply runs dry and health-bar hits certain(low) point cue the cutscene where he beats your ass and takes the catalyst.

 

2) Cerberus has small army, you're running out of ammo. You have to run or they'll slaughter you. Cue the cutscene where Garrus and James have to drag you away from combat.

 

3) Kai isn't tough, he's sneaky, while you were distracted mowing down countless hordes of Cerberus mooks he snuck behind you and stole the catalyst. Cue the cutscene of him standing on the altar, gloating as gunship daringly wades into the temple spiriting the sneaky bastard away, and shooting the pillars on the way out, thus trapping you.

 

These three I came up with off the top of my head, in 10 minutes or so. Writers had 2 years, you do the math.

[gothpunkboy89]

Yea and there are about a thousand other ways the game could have handled set ups since game one. If you are going to nit pick one specific part of him talking rather then shooting him then I'd like to go back to Virmire were a trained solider who just slaughtered his way though Saren's keep couldn't shoot him off a hover board.  Or if you want to stay in the same game. Why couldn't he shoot Kai while he was on the Cit?  Grenades exist and one thrown on the elevator would have ended him.

 

Instant healing is exactly what he did. Though rather then medi gel it was shield. The fight sequence was literally damage him to X point. He calls in air ship forcing you to take cover as he medi gels and shield recovers then repeat. You just described the exact fight that existed.

 

 

Cerberus with a small army would have been stopped not only by the Reapers but by the Asari as well. He sent only 1 maybe 2 people in specifically because a large army would provoke attack from all sides.

 

Kai is tough and sneaky. The problem is a well to do player by that point in the game has or should have best weapons in game. So any difficulty of his fight is severely reduced.

[Gaaxure]

Yea and there are about a thousand other ways the game could have handled set ups since game one. If you are going to nit pick one specific part of him talking rather then shooting him then I'd like to go back to Virmire were a trained solider who just slaughtered his way though Saren's keep couldn't shoot him off a hover board.  Or if you want to stay in the same game. Why couldn't he shoot Kai while he was on the Cit?  Grenades exist and one thrown on the elevator would have ended him.

 

Instant healing is exactly what he did. Though rather then medi gel it was shield. The fight sequence was literally damage him to X point. He calls in air ship forcing you to take cover as he medi gels and shield recovers then repeat. You just described the exact fight that existed.

 

 

Cerberus with a small army would have been stopped not only by the Reapers but by the Asari as well. He sent only 1 maybe 2 people in specifically because a large army would provoke attack from all sides.

 

Kai is tough and sneaky. The problem is a well to do player by that point in the game has or should have best weapons in game. So any difficulty of his fight is severely reduced.

 

 

How does discussing a major plot-hole in a pivotal moment of a story qualify as nitpicking? To put this in a perspective not shooting your sworn enemy on sight is about as stupid as "Send everyone police officer into the sewers" order, and yeah I have a problem with that. Asari and Reapers have their hands full with each other. to sneak couple platoons of well armed/trained Cerberus troops in the chaos of battle would be no problem. The battle that comes after that makes it 10 times worse. Guy is clearly inferior in every respect, yet he shines a flashlight into your eyes and suddenly it's over? Really? That's the best the writing staff came up with?

[gothpunkboy89]

How does discussing a major plot-hole in a pivotal moment of a story qualify as nitpicking? To put this in a perspective not shooting your sworn enemy on sight is about as stupid as "Send everyone police officer into the sewers" order, and yeah I have a problem with that. Asari and Reapers have their hands full with each other. to sneak couple platoons of well armed/trained Cerberus troops in the chaos of battle would be no problem. The battle that comes after that makes it 10 times worse. Guy is clearly inferior in every respect, yet he shines a flashlight into your eyes and suddenly it's over? Really? That's the best the writing staff came up with?

 

Reapers really didn't have their hands full with anything. Asari maybe but only because they are idiots for not listening to Liara's father.

 

But besides that point of Illusive man wanting a covert mission thus only sending a handful of people rather then a small army that would attract more attention. There was no reason for Kai to enter the way he did in a blinding light. He already was there and already killed the asari scientists.  There is absolutly no reason why he shouldn't have been hiding up in the rafters some were and as soon as you found the Prothean computer dropped down and killed your ass assassin's creed style. 

 

You should be dead at that point in the game. Now maybe your companions kill him in responds. But by all logical set ups you should be dead.  So remember that before you complain.

[rossler]

I'm probably beating a dead horse here. But did anyone else feel like they got screwed over at Thessia? I mean What the actual !#%@ (Im not certain what's the local policy on swearing is and I'm not taking any chances) ... I take down Atlas mechs with this god damn gun. What the hell's that hair made of? I unload 10 shots from the Widow in his greasy head and it didn't even mess up his haircut?!

 

Tela Vasir from LOTSB had a lot of health too.

 

Kai Leng is essentially a boss mob, while the Cerberus troopers are normal mobs and an atlas or phantom is an elite mob, speaking from an RPG perspective. Normal mobs don't have much health. Elite mobs have more health and shields/barriers. Boss mobs have a ton of health and shields/barriers as well as some adds to back them up, depending on the boss. Not all of them bring friends.

 

Much like the Shadow Broker or Human Reaper from ME2 were boss mobs. Or Matriarch Benezia and Saren from ME1.

 

The Reapers themselves are boss mobs. Every single one of them.

[Gaaxure]

Tela Vasir from LOTSB had a lot of health too.

 

Kai Leng is essentially a boss mob, while the Cerberus troopers are normal mobs and an atlas or phantom is an elite mob, speaking from an RPG perspective. Normal mobs don't have much health. Elite mobs have more health and shields/barriers. Boss mobs have a ton of health and shields/barriers. 

 

Much like the Shadow Broker or Human Reaper from ME2 were boss mobs.

The difference being Fight with Tela Vasir was actually tough, presented a challenge and most importantly when you overcame the challenge presented by gameplay your victory actually carried over into story. What would your reaction be if after finally grinding her down to last HPs suddenly cutscene came along: She makes an angry face, third-rate-anime runs at Liara kills her and flies away on biotic lightnings. Game, set & match.