82 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

How does 2015 design tie into Ferelden or Orlesian design, pray-tell?

It doesn't. But I was figuring that "mocking" connotation came from someplace. It can't be inherent in primary colors themselves; obviously Prince William wasn't mocking anybody with that uniform. Nor were all the dignitaries at Edward VII's funeral, or the characters in The Prisoner of Zenda.

If that connotation doesn't come from contemporary tastes, then where does it come from? It can't be just a weird personal thing from you since other people have the same problem.

[Lady Luminous]

It doesn't. But I was figuring that "mocking" connotation came from someplace. It can't be inherent in primary colors themselves; obviously Prince William wasn't mocking anybody with that uniform.

If that connotation doesn't come from contemporary tastes, then where does it come from?

I definitely don't think they intended it to be, it wasn't inherent in the design process like "Hey guys, let's make sure Orlais knows we think their fashion is stupid by walking in wearing tomato red!"

Mocking may be a completely incorrect use of terminology or even in my interpretation, but it's because I can't find anywhere in that this red fits that makes it seem flippant.

[roselavellan]

Hmmm... because formal gear in 2015 doesn't use primary colors that way? Yeah, that went out with the Edwardian era. I kind of like that era, myself; particularly in a classic Technicolor movie, which is certainly the look Bio was going for.

 

Lots of red in current fashion, I can assure you.

 

 

With the exception of the formal attire, I haven't seen primary red in Thedas yet, though, have you?

[AlanC9]

OK... now I really don't see what the problem is supposed to be. We're going backwards.

[Lady Luminous]

OK... now I really don't see what the problem is supposed to be. We're going backwards.

The colour fits nowhere in Thedas and looks ridiculous; that's the problem pure and simple.

A colour change fixes the problem completely as shown in prior screenshots.

[AlanC9]

Red fits nowhere in Thedas?

[Lady Luminous]

Red fits nowhere in Thedas?

Not that specific glaringly hideous red, no.

Which is why I agreed with a prior statement that a burgundy or bordeux or a rust would be much more appropriate.

[roselavellan]

Not that specific glaringly hideous red, no.

Which is why I agreed with a prior statement that a burgundy or bordeux or a rust would be much more appropriate.

 

Yeah, Morrigan had maroon with black as her outfit theme, Varric had an orange-red tunic contrasted with a grey sash. Those were great combinations.

[AlanC9]

What's so bad about that red compared to, say, Wynne's starting robes? Not to mention the guy at the Landsmeet wearing the same color except metallic.

All I'm seeing here is personal taste. If that's all it is, we're talking about nothing. Which is kinda my fault, I guess.

[Lady Luminous]

What's so bad about that red compared to, say, Wynne's starting robes? Not to mention the guy at the Landsmeet wearing the same color except metallic.

All I'm seeing here is personal taste. If that's all it is, we're talking about nothing. Which is kinda my fault, I guess.

okay so it may have been in the previous games, but my argument was specifically DA:I related.

Is personal taste and an interest in fashion/styling not a valid point of view? I certainly don't see it as "talking about nothing"!

[Lady Luminous]

Yeah, Morrigan had maroon with black as her outfit theme, Varric had an orange-red tunic contrasted with a grey sash. Those were great combinations.

beautifully done! Varric's tunic was bright and warm without being blinding. Even Sera manages to pull off red with plaideweave because their tones are muted just enough.

[nightscrawl]

As long as it's consistent.

I still don't get the hate for that red. Is this a problem with red in particular, or primary colors in general?

 

For me it's that particular red, and also paired with the blue sash and light gold leather accents. If the default red were a bit darker, and the leather were brown, I wouldn't mind it as much.

 

Even just a slight switch of colors is an improvement. In The Art of Dragon Age: Inquisition there is concept for the Inquisitor's dress uniform with slightly different coloring. One modder replicated that look and even that is an improvement.

 

What's so bad about that red compared to, say, Wynne's starting robes? Not to mention the guy at the Landsmeet wearing the same color except metallic.

All I'm seeing here is personal taste. If that's all it is, we're talking about nothing. Which is kinda my fault, I guess.

 

Well yes... of course it's all personal preference. No one claimed otherwise. Someone else in the thread actually posted that they liked it. Unfortunately for the formal attire, those who choose to post about their dislike on the forums far outweigh those who chose to state that they like it. The same goes with the infamous Skyhold attire, aka "PJs." I don't think the Skyhold attire is that bad, and my own mod has pretty minimal changes.

[almasy87]

Yeah as others have already said. If it was a burgundy or other shades of red it would have been ok..

But primary red is too bright, and it looks almost fake. It does not fit into Thedas at all imho. It is almost never used - only Varric comes to mind and I think it's more of a dark orange, not sure.

But most of all it does not fit at the ball imho..This is like Santa's red...

But I guess it's personal preference

[Lady Luminous]

Yeah as others have already said. If it was a burgundy or other shades of red it would have been ok..

But primary red is too bright, and it looks almost fake. It does not fit into Thedas at all imho. It is almost never used - only Varric comes to mind and I think it's more of a dark orange, not sure.

But most of all it does not fit at the ball imho..This is like Santa's red...

But I guess it's personal preference

Even Varric's tunic is a warmer red mixed with orange tones.

You're right; I find it very fake looking.

[SwobyJ]

[Krypplingz]

The ball outfit is maybe more vibrant than most, but there are some red fabrics in Inquisition. A lot of it is in the curtains and rugs, but there are also red sashes and Jennys red bags. So red dye isn't unheard of (or the Chantry would need some new uniforms). 

Spoiler

 

Personally I feel like the Inquisitors red doesn't clash that much with the npc reds. _{(Also, Frederic's butt!)}

Spoiler

 

As for being stuck in it at the ball, I think you can toss it in the trash after you gain access to the Servants quarters in Halamshiral. At least Vedis was stuck in her cozy pajamas when I deleted all the formal outfits since there was no room in the inventory and the game never spawned a new one. She looked quite stunning on the dance floor.  

 

Otherwise you only need to wear it when talking to Giselle (which takes around 7 minutes + maybe 3 minutes it takes to run to the wardobe) and for the final cutscenes which take 8 minutes (being generous). 

So defaulting you the the red formal outfit at the end is probably done so they wouldn't have to create and animate 32 different models for a total of 8 minutes of cutscenes. 

If they did create all the outfits + the colors it would be 104 variations of a character model which was only seen for around 8 minutes. 

[Aquarius]

That Vivian, Dorian, Leliana and Josephine wear this dreadful uniform is out of character. They are too fashion conscious for that.

[cindercatz]

The graphics engine doesn't do velvet (at least not in Inquisition), and that outfit only fits with velvet. It does end up looking like a disney cartoon outfit. Now, if they'd been silk? It does silk pretty well. Also, maybe don't copy real world 17th, 18th century chic that we somehow have gotten stuck with as traditionals. William wore that outfit because it was traditional, the sash denoting his station and all that. But this game's aesthetic is more 15th, 16th century, and it looks much nicer. They should have kept with the slightly fantastic period aesthetic. Maybe even do away with military dress for those events entirely. I suspect they wanted a unisex appearance, and somebody pulled up William and went, 'That'll work, right?' 'Good enough for him, good enough for us.' lol They need to do away with the whole idea of unisex game assets.

[nightscrawl]

So defaulting you the the red formal outfit at the end is probably done so they wouldn't have to create and animate 32 different models for a total of 8 minutes of cutscenes. 
If they did create all the outfits + the colors it would be 104 variations of a character model which was only seen for around 8 minutes.

Actually, I'm not sure why the wardrobe tints can't also be applied to the armless formal attire. There are two model meshes for the formal attire (for each race and gender). One is the standard, the other is armless. They use the same textures for the uniforms themselves, and only the model that the textures "skin" is altered for the armless look. The mesh files for the armless also have tint information written into them, just like the standard version. The wardrobe tints point to a specific model, in this case the formal attire. They would have had to add the armless version to those tints so that it applied to both versions.

 

So it seems to me that the only reason the wardrobe tints don't also apply to the armless version is likely a lack of time to code it in. There might be something else, of course, but from my (admittedly limited) knowledge of how the models and textures work in the game, that is what seems the most likely.

[Elista]

They should have kept with the slightly fantastic period aesthetic. Maybe even do away with military dress for those events entirely. I suspect they wanted a unisex appearance, and somebody pulled up William and went, 'That'll work, right?' 'Good enough for him, good enough for us.' lol They need to do away with the whole idea of unisex game assets.

This. Totally. Unisex is bad. Unisex is evil. For hair, eyebrows, clothes, animations... Maker help us ! V_V
Some orlesian fashions, with the mask, would have been awesome...

[Krypplingz]

Actually, I'm not sure why the wardrobe tints can't also be applied to the armless formal attire. There are two model meshes for the formal attire (for each race and gender). One is the standard, the other is armless. They use the same textures for the uniforms themselves, and only the model that the textures "skin" is altered for the armless look. The mesh files for the armless also have tint information written into them, just like the standard version. The wardrobe tints point to a specific model, in this case the formal attire. They would have had to add the armless version to those tints so that it applied to both versions.

 

So it seems to me that the only reason the wardrobe tints don't also apply to the armless version is likely a lack of time to code it in. There might be something else, of course, but from my (admittedly limited) knowledge of how the models and textures work in the game, that is what seems the most likely.

I don't really understand how the tinting and meshing works so you are probably correct.

But even if they changed the color of the suit if you were wearing it, it's a 4/13 chance that the player will be wearing the formal uniform and the cutscene only takes 8 minutes. They probably figured time was better spent elsewhere.

 

A small rant under the spoilers. Probably wrong, but it makes it easier to accept the red suit for me.

Spoiler

So if the color would only change if you were wearing the formal outfit when the cutscene started. So there would be a 4/13 chance that the player was wearing the outfit. 

So they would have to make 4 tints for each new mesh, so total of 32 tints. Even if you did the red one proper and then just recolored them with layers and overlay it would still take some time. Even if it was a minor thing like just the arm. 

Then you would have to code it in. If the code was -> IF Qunari_Male wearing Orange_1 THEN Qunari_Male wearing Orange_2. Probably nowhere close to the real code, but still. Then you need to write atleast 32 lines of code. (The 8 for the red suit would also detect if you were wearing a different armor). Then you would have to test each line of code to see if the game read it properly and if the textures looked okay in game. 

So there would be 24 tint alterations, 24 lines of new code, 24 more playtests for 8 minutes cutscene that there was a 4 out of 13 chance that the player was seeing. 

Or they could focus the man power into fixing some glitches that 100% of players would see if they played the DLC. 

[nightscrawl]

^ I don't understand your 4/13 chance remark. The player is always going to be wearing the formal attire in that scene because that is the only armless model in the game.

 

Here is how the tinting works... For the normal default formal attire the tint colors are coded directly into the model mesh. Only three things are able to be tinted: the jacket, the sash, and the metallic trim. The wardrobe has a default option, and it just loads the basic model mesh. For the Trespasser scene, we have the armless model mesh with that same tint color information coded directly into the model mesh.

 

So, lets bring in the wardrobe tints. There are three additional tints provided by the wardrobe. What these do is overlay the formal attire model with different materials, just like the tint table does. The file lists the different materials -- primary cloth, secondary cloth, leather, metal -- and points to the item to be tinted, in this case the formal attire. There are NOT different tints for each race and gender. Those same tints cover everyone, just as the same textures cover everyone. The only things that exist with different variations for each race and gender are the model meshes. So, whatever extra stuff you do with the tints, you only need to edit those three additional files, not 32.

 

If I wanted to alter one of the tints to be all light colors -- silk, cotton, dragon, silverite -- I can just change out the materials in one file and make a mod with those changes. Everyone of all races and genders would be able to use the mod. It's not the same as the Skyhold attire (aka PJ) mods that were released. Those edit the textures directly, and each race and gender has their own variation, which is why selection is restrictive and limited.

 

 

EquipItemAppearance : [ItemAppearance] da3/equipment/appearances/armors/item_app_armor_formal_wear

 

For the armless formal attire, the problem comes in that there is NOT a corresponding item_app_armor_formal_wear_armless, because that is not an actual item in the game you can have. You can have a standard formal attire item, which is what is in your inventory at the ball during Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts.

 

Now, all of these tint files only have one EquipItemAppearance assignment listed. I can only assume that in order for them to have had the wardrobe tint the armless version as well, the tint file would have needed to be altered with an additional EquipItemAppearance. But as mentioned, there is no item_app file for the armless version. The only thing that exists for the armless version is the model mesh, which is what we see in that scene.

 

Now, you can edit the tint colors on both the standard and armless formal model meshes and make mods. I have done this and was successful with the standard version. But I have yet to test the armless version because I don't want to play Trespasser again.

 

-----

 

So... now that I've written all this out I can see why it might have been problematic for them to have the wardrobe tint the armless version. It's still a bummer though. As far as I know, the formal attire texture mods still cause an infinite loading screen when you attempt to load Trespasser. If this can eventually be fixed on the Mod Maker or Mod Manager side of things we should be all set with our armless version color-wise.

[Krypplingz]

^ I don't understand your 4/13 chance remark. The player is always going to be wearing the formal attire in that scene because that is the only armless model in the game.

 

4/13 is because your under armor doesn't change until you enter the chamber with your book. So if you were wearing the blue formal armor when you met Solas the next scene would have you in an armless blue outfit. That would be consistent. If you were wearing beige pajamas the game should default to the red one. 

Because how would the game pick one of the three other colors? Popup between scenes would kind of kill the mood they were going for and having you tick an option in the wardobe before the scene would give the surprise away. There is probably another more clever way. Maybe you modders can find it (and you probably will because you are a crafty bunch) but I figure the game designers wanted to spend their energy fixing other bugs. 

 

But the tinting process looks handy and thank you for the explanation

[Maiden Ty One]

I wasn't making any assumptions when I made my post. And I certainly didn't ask for your mod life story. The point of my post was bioware isn't going to do anything as the last patch was the last patch, so you'll have to rely on the modding community. I am well aware those mods don't work in Trespasser. The post below mine explains why. Sorry, just gotta deal with it.

 

Lol, what an ass you are. You absolutely were making an assumption; you assumed Zerican was playing on console, and made a pathetic remark about why PC gaming is 'superior'. Zerican told you she's actually playing on PC, and those mods don't work, and rather than go "Oh, I see...", you arrogantly stick to your guns like a petulant child and post an arrogant reply 'explaining' (rationalizing) why your original comment was not unfounded.

 

Dude, your comment was baseless and off the mark. you gotta deal with that. What is it with people like you who just can't admit when you're off about something? The sad thing is you're actually convincing yourselves more than anyone else...

[AlanC9]

The graphics engine doesn't do velvet (at least not in Inquisition), and that outfit only fits with velvet.

Why velvet? The RW counterparts of those uniforms weren't velvet.