107 réponses à ce sujet

[d1ta]

Well, if you didn't do his quest (like what I did on my 1st PT) after defeating Corypheus he sounded happy and told my Inquisitor that, "It's time to be that Qunari guy again." It sounded like being with the Inquisition is just what he needed to blow off steam and once he's done 'vacationing' (the impression that I got ) he happilly swims back to the Qun (and to the re-educators.. ugh)
His faith, is very central to him. Which makes me think that if he's never being pit in a situation where he has to quickly choose between 'family' or 'duty' he would've never question the wisdom of the Qun. In other words, if you allow him to develop his own path 'naturally' (without Inquisitor's influence) I'd say it's more likely he'd stick with the Qun to the very end, bitter or no.

On my 2nd PT, I did his quest. And upon facing such decision (armed with previous experience) I felt Bull is like 51% of him wanted to satisfy the demands of the Qun. Even so, it aint easy telling the rest of 49% of his heart to sacrifice his family in doing so. That's why he defers to my Inquisitor. I cant help to feel the silent languages being exchanged between him and my Inquisitor as he looked her way, "Please tell me to do the right thing, Boss. (Self reasuring) Inquisition needs all the help it can get to defeat Corypheus, right?" (Although the game would LoL'ed and say 'no' to this reasoning but IQ and Bull doesn't know that )

Here is when I saw my IQ sort of just take the reins from him by firmly planting her vote to save the Chargers. It's more like her way of saying, "I know you like the Qun, but it's not good for you. And yes, the Chargers mattered too."

That's just my personal take on IB, at least. It's like seeing a friend that fell in love head over heels to a 'bad guy' and you can spot it from miles away that he's just bad news for that friend of yours.

Just my 0.02

Edit: spelling

[congokong]

Actually, if Hawke is a Basalit-an by that point the Arishok does ask Hawke what they would do in his position. 

 

lol The arishok asked  the same thing to my Hawke, who at that point certainly was not Basalit-an, having sided with Petrice. But anyway, I think the arishok's question was more rhetorical than anything else. As you see, he chooses to attack Kirkwall no matter what you say or do. Iron Bull on the other hand truly puts the decision on the Inquisitor, which he certainly isn't supposed to do under the qun. And the Inquisitor wasn't Basalit-an either by that point, not that it matters, as evidence shows that title is more likely intended to leave "bas" under a false sense of security (with a few perks) than anything else.

[congokong]

Well, if you didn't do his quest (like what I did on my 1st PT) after defeating Corypheus he sounded happy and told my Inquisitor that, "It's time to be that Qunari guy again." It sounded like being with the Inquisition is just what he needed to blow off steam and once he's done 'vacationing' (the impression that I got ) he happilly swims back to the Qun (and to the re-educators.. ugh)
 

Why didn't you do his quest on the first playthrough? Because you hate the qun or you just couldn't get his approval up? Iron Bull might be the hardest character to keep their approval down. I can't recall a single time where he greatly disapproves of something.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Why didn't you do his quest on the first playthrough? Because you hate the qun or you just couldn't get his approval up? Iron Bull might be the hardest character to keep their approval down. I can't recall a single time where he greatly disapproves of something.

 

I had a bit of trouble with his approval in my Lavellan's playthrough since she conscripted the templars and tended to be rather lenient in judgments.  But literally all you have to do to make up approval hits is punch a few dragons and spill some drinks.

[congokong]

I had a bit of trouble with his approval in my Lavellan's playthrough since she conscripted the templars and tended to be rather lenient in judgments.  But literally all you have to do to make up approval hits is punch a few dragons and spill some drinks.

Things like conscripting the templars are no big deal. Like I said, he seemingly doesn't greatly disapprove of anything. So what? I didn't know this for a long time, but the approval system works as:

 

Slightly approves/disapproves =  +-1

Approves/disapproves =  +-5

Greatly approves/disapproves =  +-20 (!)

 

And without Iron Bull greatly disapproving of anything it's naturally very hard to keep that approval down. One disapproval from conscripting the templars can be remedied by having a single drink with him after killing a dragon for example. If he greatly disapproved it would take four times as many. Much harder.

[coldwetn0se]

This is meta-gamey of course, but one of the final exchanges on the Storm Coast with Gatt, after saving the Chargers, is also a bit telling.

Gatt: "All these years Hissrad, and you throw it all away. For what? For this? For them?"

If the Inquisitor chooses to respond with, "His name is Iron Bull!", Bull will give you approval. This seems quite significant to me. Names are so important to many outside of the Qun, and he is realizing, that in fact, it matters to him as well.

[Qun00]

The Iron Bull seemed far more broken over the Chargers death. He gets mildly upset for becoming Tal-Vashoth but that's about it.

[Sable Rhapsody]

The Iron Bull seemed far more broken over the Chargers death. He gets mildly upset for becoming Tal-Vashoth but that's about it.

 

From Cole's lines about him and their dialogue, I'd say Bull is more worried and upset about becoming Tal-Vashoth than he lets on to the Inquisitor.  But that's Bull for you.  Playing it cool even when he's conflicted, or guilty, or in pain.

[Arvaarad]

From Cole's lines about him and their dialogue, I'd say Bull is more worried and upset about becoming Tal-Vashoth than he lets on to the Inquisitor. But that's Bull for you. Playing it cool even when he's conflicted, or guilty, or in pain.

He's probably a bit... embarrassed isn't the right word, but something like that. He knows the inquisitor is not Qunari, and probably takes a dim view of the culture. With the possible exception of a Dalish inquisitor, their upbringing could not have been as culturally isolated as his. If he shares his pain with the inquisitor, they're unlikely to understand what he's going through.

When someone grows up in an insular community, leaving is almost unfathomably hard. All your childhood friends are there. Your entire support system is tied into the people from that community. Fundamental aspects of your worldview are based on that community's beliefs. Outsiders have been depicted, since you were tiny, as bad or misguided, and even when they do good things, it's minimized or rationalized away.

Leaving requires severing all those ties and forming new ties in a world you've been taught to believe is hostile and wrong. If that wasn't enough, you're also busy rebuilding your life philosophy from the ground up. It feels like your brain is liquefying and re-forming, but you have to keep living your life like nothing crazy or earth-shattering is happening inside your head.

Often you'll meet people who are close to leaving a community like that, and they'll be completely reasonable. They'll understand/agree with all the arguments against their community's actions or beliefs. Just like Bull acknowledges that a Qunari invasion would be bad. But they haven't left yet, because it requires immense motivation to do so.

By the time someone does leave, they're 1000% convinced that they're making the right choice, rationally. That just makes the crushing sadness more confusing, and even harder to explain to people who haven't had that experience.

Compared to that, "pain over friends' deaths" is something he knows the inquisitor will understand.

[Sable Rhapsody]

He's probably a bit... embarrassed isn't the right word, but something like that. He knows the inquisitor is not Qunari, and probably takes a dim view of the culture. With the possible exception of a Dalish inquisitor, their upbringing could not have been as culturally isolated as his. If he shares his pain with the inquisitor, they're unlikely to understand what he's going through.

When someone grows up in an insular community, leaving is almost unfathomably hard. All your childhood friends are there. Your entire support system is tied into the people from that community. Fundamental aspects of your worldview are based on that community's beliefs. Outsiders have been depicted, since you were tiny, as bad or misguided, and even when they do good things, it's minimized or rationalized away.

Leaving requires severing all those ties and forming new ties in a world you've been taught to believe is hostile and wrong. If that wasn't enough, you're also busy rebuilding your life philosophy from the ground up. It feels like your brain is liquefying and re-forming, but you have to keep living your life like nothing crazy or earth-shattering is happening inside your head.

Often you'll meet people who are close to leaving a community like that, and they'll be completely reasonable. They'll understand/agree with all the arguments against their community's actions or beliefs. Just like Bull acknowledges that a Qunari invasion would be bad. But they haven't left yet, because it requires immense motivation to do so.

By the time someone does leave, they're 1000% convinced that they're making the right choice, rationally. That just makes the crushing sadness more confusing, and even harder to explain to people who haven't had that experience.

Compared to that, "pain over friends' deaths" is something he knows the inquisitor will understand.

 

Yup, all the feels now.  Where is the option to give Bull a big, squishy hug? 

[Midnight Bliss]

I'm sure there's an element of this too.  Which makes Solas's comment about Tal-Vashoth Bull making the first choice in his life somewhat ironic, since Bull did hand the choice over to the Inquisitor.  Though one could argue that in doing that, he was already defying the Qun.  After all, a truly obedient qunari would pick the dreadnought no question, and certainly wouldn't hand the choice over to a bas, even one who had earned some measure of respect.  It's not like the Arishok asked Hawke's advice before he blew his stack and attacked Kirkwall.

Yeah, I actually remember the first time I heard Solas' comment after Bull became Tal-Vashoth and thought it was a mistake or something like, "What? Didn't I decide to save the Chargers?" But then after I thought about it for a while I realized Solas is actually right because even though the Inquis makes the final choice Bull goes along with it and seeing as the Qun is a Hivemind that's one of the most significant emotional points in his entire story, IMO.

[d1ta]

Why didn't you do his quest on the first playthrough? Because you hate the qun or you just couldn't get his approval up? Iron Bull might be the hardest character to keep their approval down. I can't recall a single time where he greatly disapproves of something.

I didn't do IB's personal quest that time because of 2 things:
1. I don't trust the Qun
2. I don't like to break promises.

I play my canon Dalish First as someone who's honor bound by her words. If she gave her agreement to Bull that fateful morning in Skyhold, "Yes, we will make an alliance with the Qunari," then she will follow through her words even if it means sacrificing some of her men.
Why wouldn't she? Many good inquisition men and women fought bravely and died or scarred based on her decisions in the past: from leading a siege at Adamant, to the daily routine patrol keeping the area safe from bandits and wildlife (like that ambient dialogue in the Western Approach keep). Some of the soldiers will leave and she understands that, but many of them stayed because despite her pragmatism, she will not theow their lives carelessly and for nothing. It's like what Cullen told her when they were rudely knocking on Adamant's gate: that the soldiers are willing to do what it's necessary. They know their job and what risks entails (my impression on his convo, at least)

Hence the 'No'. She's not willing to make that sacrifice.

This is a time before Trespasser.

Knowing what consequences will come for not saving the Chargers, I had to meta game a bit. I want to 'win' IB's loyalty and heart this time, for Dorian.

--
And +1 for everything what Arvaraad said. That is exactly why I find IB's quest, no matter how I swing it, it's difficult.

Since I felt that it's really not my place to tell someone, let alone a friend, to abandon his faith (or taking actions that will lead him to be kicked out from a society/belief where 'he felt that he belonged to'). May or may not agree with the Qun because of 'reasons' but who am I to tell any person that their belief is wrong and you must abandon it now ..

And saving the Chargers would litteraly put the blame on my IQ's shoulders. You said 'yes' to our alliance and now during a critical moment you decided to back off? What if the Qun get offended and decided to invade Southern Thedas because I choose to save a bunch of mercs? Yes they planned to invade anyway, but my IQ might give them more reason to do so and give more fuel in proving their point, "Bas cannot be trusted".

[congokong]

I didn't do IB's personal quest that time because of 2 things:
1. I don't trust the Qun
2. I don't like to break promises.

Regarding #2, it sounds like you knew beforehand what would happen in that quest if that was a factor in not doing it on your first playthrough. How much were you meta-gaming?

[Midnight Bliss]

And saving the Chargers would litteraly put the blame on my IQ's shoulders. You said 'yes' to our alliance and now during a critical moment you decided to back off? What if the Qun get offended and decided to invade Southern Thedas because I choose to save a bunch of mercs? Yes they planned to invade anyway, but my IQ might give them more reason to do so and give more fuel in proving their point, "Bas cannot be trusted".

Alternatively one could argue that choosing the Dreadnaught is the more questionable of the two since the reason the mission falls apart in the first place is because the Ben-Hassrath are too arrogant and underestimate the Venatori. When asked Gatt admits a Venatori surprise attack from the shoreline would devastate the Dreadnaught which bares the question if the Ben-Hassrath know that a Venatori raid from the shore has at the least a plausible likelihood of destroying their Dreadnaught why haven't they taken precautions against it? Why doesn't their plan include a solution or countermasure against something like that? Especially when placing simple ambushes to protect locations of strategic importance is a pretty basic, and, I daresay pretty expected tactic for just about anybody.

 

Although The Chargers aren't technically Inquisition troops they're still under your employ, loyal to you and as such your forces. Up to approximate moment in time Demands of the Qun takes place The Chargers have already proven themselves by tracking and destroying Envy (Or infiltrating Redcliff Castle and disrupting a ritual whilst taking a live prisoner for interrogation), rescuing stranded refugees in the now destroyed Haven and what we can confidently assume are enough other contributions to the Inquisition to make them worth their expensive fee. We're given no reason to doubt them or what they could contribute in the future, unlike the Ben-Hassrath whose military strategems apparently don't include a countermeasure for something so basic as a enemy protecting their supply lines.

 

With all that said I think the assertion that sacrificing your own reliable soliders to cover for a arrogant and ill prepared potential ally who you really don't know very much about, or if they'll even be trustworthy or of any value in the long run shows by far the more questionable judgement and leadership of the two choices.

[DarkSun09]

Everything you learn about Bull, either through speaking with him or speaking to Krem about him, tells you that he is a warm, honorable, and decent man. He collected misfits and outcasts from every race and social background and made a little family for them within the chargers. He even sacrificed his eye to defend Krem from an attack once. Bull would not want you to sacrifice the chargers, but he is conflicted because the Qun brainwashes people into obedience. Their ideology is in opposition to who Bull is, but if you don't give him that little push in the right direction, he will fall in line with the Qun because he is afraid being Tal-Vashoth will lead to savagery and madness, his greatest fear. Do for Bull what he did for his men and give him a place in the Inquisition where he doesn't have to be afraid of who he is or who he might become if he is allowed to think for himself.

[d1ta]

Regarding #2, it sounds like you knew beforehand what would happen in that quest if that was a factor in not doing it on your first playthrough. How much were you meta-gaming?

Lets just say when IB kinda wavers a bit (talking that about how weird it feels having the Qun here) and not being much of a 'salesman' for the Qun.. idk why, suddenly it gave me virmire flashbacks ^^'
And I just 'noped' the hell out of it and firmly avoid storm coast. I'm a chicken, you see despite many Orlesian sees me as a rabbit (omg, been hanging around too long in the pun thread. Sorry 'bout that)

After a while spoilers are invading the forums so it's difficult to not know what that mission is all about.

[d1ta]

Alternatively one could argue that choosing the Dreadnaught is the more questionable of the two since the reason the mission falls apart in the first place is because the Ben-Hassrath are too arrogant and underestimate the Venatori. When asked Gatt admits a Venatori surprise attack from the shoreline would devastate the Dreadnaught which bares the question if the Ben-Hassrath know that a Venatori raid from the shore has at the least a plausible likelihood of destroying their Dreadnaught why haven't they taken precautions against it? Why doesn't their plan include a solution or countermasure against something like that? Especially when placing simple ambushes to protect locations of strategic importance is a pretty basic, and, I daresay pretty expected tactic for just about anybody.

Although The Chargers aren't technically Inquisition troops they're still under your employ, loyal to you and as such your forces. Up to approximate moment in time Demands of the Qun takes place The Chargers have already proven themselves by tracking and destroying Envy (Or infiltrating Redcliff Castle and disrupting a ritual whilst taking a live prisoner for interrogation), rescuing stranded refugees in the now destroyed Haven and what we can confidently assume are enough other contributions to the Inquisition to make them worth their expensive fee. We're given no reason to doubt them or what they could contribute in the future, unlike the Ben-Hassrath whose military strategems apparently don't include a countermeasure for something so basic as a enemy protecting their supply lines.

With all that said I think the assertion that sacrificing your own reliable soliders to cover for a arrogant and ill prepared potential ally who you really don't know very much about, or if they'll even be trustworthy or of any value in the long run shows by far the more questionable judgement and leadership of the two choices.

There are a lot of reasons why one should save the chargers or save the dreadnoughts. Every inquisitor has their own mindsets and reasoning as well as their own little story. Like say, that of my Adaar as opposed to my Lavellan. I wouldn't say that one particular reason is 'wrong' and the other one is 'right'. Some might agree to his/her stance while others don't.

There are various reasons to save chargers based not on selfish reasons and you just named a few. I'll add one more:
Especially for my Adaar, he'll purposely sank the dreadnought to p!ss off the Qun to weed off any suspicion that he's not one of 'them' (heathen oxmen) and he's one of 'us' (to gain the trust of the nobles and the Andrastrian flock). Putting a horned giant as the Herald and Inquisitor might be pushing things a bit already and an alliance with the Qun can break the trust and stability my Addar has fought so hard to accomplish.

My Lavellan certainly don't think that way. Once her word is given then she'll try her best to follow through it. You can say that the optimum decision for my Lavellan is not deciding at all at IB's mission ^^'. No trust Qun, no promises, no storm coast meeting. But I care for the big lug and doesn't have the heart to see him turn out like the way he did in trespasser. So Chargers it is.
She doesn't like it, but she could get by the idea of Dorian and IB being happy together.

[Arvaarad]

You can say that the optimum decision for my Lavellan is not deciding at all at IB's mission ^^'. No trust Qun, no promises, no storm coast meeting. But I care for the big lug and doesn't have the heart to see him turn out like the way he did in trespasser. So Chargers it is.

I mean, technically, the optimal decision is never recruiting Bull. In that case, Bull survives, the Chargers survive, and the crew of the dreadnought survives.

But yeah, it's always weird having the inquisitor skip content.

That said, my favorite HoF missed out/lost over half his companions because of various fumbles. It ended up giving him a clearer personality. Maybe I should be more judicious about who I recruit and who I leave behind.

[TK514]

Just adding my voice to those who have said "Deep down, Bull just wants to be told what to do".

[congokong]

Lets just say when IB kinda wavers a bit (talking that about how weird it feels having the Qun here) and not being much of a 'salesman' for the Qun.. idk why, suddenly it gave me virmire flashbacks ^^'
And I just 'noped' the hell out of it and firmly avoid storm coast. I'm a chicken, you see despite many Orlesian sees me as a rabbit (omg, been hanging around too long in the pun thread. Sorry 'bout that)

After a while spoilers are invading the forums so it's difficult to not know what that mission is all about.

That's some precognitive abilities you have. lol  Did you also foresee another Virmire situation in the fade at Adamant?

[congokong]

Alternatively one could argue that choosing the Dreadnaught is the more questionable of the two since the reason the mission falls apart in the first place is because the Ben-Hassrath are too arrogant and underestimate the Venatori. When asked Gatt admits a Venatori surprise attack from the shoreline would devastate the Dreadnaught which bares the question if the Ben-Hassrath know that a Venatori raid from the shore has at the least a plausible likelihood of destroying their Dreadnaught why haven't they taken precautions against it? Why doesn't their plan include a solution or countermasure against something like that? Especially when placing simple ambushes to protect locations of strategic importance is a pretty basic, and, I daresay pretty expected tactic for just about anybody.

 

Although The Chargers aren't technically Inquisition troops they're still under your employ, loyal to you and as such your forces. Up to approximate moment in time Demands of the Qun takes place The Chargers have already proven themselves by tracking and destroying Envy (Or infiltrating Redcliff Castle and disrupting a ritual whilst taking a live prisoner for interrogation), rescuing stranded refugees in the now destroyed Haven and what we can confidently assume are enough other contributions to the Inquisition to make them worth their expensive fee. We're given no reason to doubt them or what they could contribute in the future, unlike the Ben-Hassrath whose military strategems apparently don't include a countermeasure for something so basic as a enemy protecting their supply lines.

 

With all that said I think the assertion that sacrificing your own reliable soliders to cover for a arrogant and ill prepared potential ally who you really don't know very much about, or if they'll even be trustworthy or of any value in the long run shows by far the more questionable judgement and leadership of the two choices.

I figured this would get into a "which choice is better" debate eventually. To me, tactics-wise it's a no-brainer. Whether or not the Ben-Hassrath should have had the foresight to avoid all possible negative outcomes or whatever on the Storm Coast, their aid is far more vital than one single mercenary company. Yes, they're not trustworthy (outside of fighting Corypheus), which is why they're kept at arms-reach when aiding the Inquisition, but their help would be undeniably instrumental in stopping a threat that could consume the world (meta-gaming it of course doesn't matter but whatever). Throughout history major powers have united against common enemies many times despite not trusting each other.

 

Remember what Iron Bull says when first discussing needing an Inquisitor? "We choose those who can make the hard decisions, and live with the consequences." And as Inquisitor you should be able to make the hard decisions.

 

...Now... that doesn't mean I always sacrificed the Chargers. When role-playing characters who hated the qun, they let their biases cause them to make a military blunder by saving the Chargers. And after Trespasser that choice is far easier to make. After all, we see what happens to Iron Bull after losing his family. We don't ever see those 100 dead qunari on the dreadnought or those left on Pal-Vollen grieving for them. And we also see that the qunari attack the south two years later regardless of what you do while the Chargers remain loyal. That makes allying with the qunari knowing what's coming harder. It's all emotions and meta-gaming influencing your choices.

 

Side-note: Speaking of qunari being untrustworthy, in Trespasser it once again shows Leliana's incompetence as a spymaster for just dismissing Iron Bull of not knowing anything about the qunari because he said so. I figured he either was kept in the dark for fear Leliana was actually thorough enough to interrogate him, or he was lying. It turned out to be the latter. Hell, his name is "liar."

[Gervaise]

Leliana was incompetent on checking the backgrounds of a number of people and not checking up on elves joining the Inquisition.    Hawke discovered the extent to which the Qun had infiltrated the ranks of poor humans and elves when helping Tallis and even if the nobles preferred not to believe them, Leliana should have done.    Cassandra got the whole story during her interrogation of Varric and then the actions of the elves during the Arishok's attempted take over of Kirkwall corroborated the story.    Plus we met up with Gaatt and he said the same.    After we find out about the barrels of explosive, it takes Leliana only a short time to discover the connection, so why not before?    I rather think the Qun were being particularly cute in telling Iron Bull to make contact with the Inquisition as it meant everyone was looking at him and so missing the others.    Plus Iron Bull is always pointing out how good he is at spotting enemy agents or other strange occurrences, yet apparently he completely missed the Qunari agents in the Inquisition?     The Qun apparently decided they needed to start taking action against the south the moment the Rift appeared in the sky, so they would have started planting their agents in strategic locations immediately after.     It seems we constantly owe our survival to future antagonists; first Cory stops Solas, then Solas stops the Qun.    Without them we'd already be dead.    I'm hoping our spy network will be more efficient in the future.

 

I do think that Iron Bull was torn over the decision but would have preferred that the writers let him make it for himself.    As it is, when I saved the Chargers it made me laugh when Krem says they knew Bull had their backs, when I know he didn't.   He did seem calmer over the loss of the Chargers than he was over being made Tal Vashoth but that was probably only because of the stigma attached to the word.    I think people may be right that the loss of the Chargers had broken his spirit.   On the face of it he seemed the same but deep down the Iron Bull had gone.

 

What I do find odd is that they have the Inquisitor saying how shocked they are that Bull betrayed them after they had been together so many years; apparently forgetting that Bull allowed the Inquisitor to sacrifice the Chargers when he had known them for twice as long.    I would have been more surprised if Bull hadn't betrayed the Inquisitor when he was still part of the Qun.    As Blackwall says, Bull never hid what he was.

[d1ta]

That's some precognitive abilities you have. lol Did you also foresee another Virmire situation in the fade at Adamant?

A lot of quests I kinda skipped because I had a bad vibe about it on first run XD mostly war table missions.
Almost didn't want to recruit IB because of that 'bad mojo' vibe, but I have another weaknesses that I cannot not recruit a companion.
("I'm a Qunari spy..." ^^' .. yeah.. )

It's easy for me to 'feel bad' irl and that kinda shows in how I play my game going in blind. I guess decision making or the fear of upsetting pixel people gets the better of me XD (Lord help me).
Getting my clan killed was kinda
As for the Fade thing, lets just say I felt like I've dodge a bullet there since mostly I man up Alistair and put him on the throne back in DAO ("oh shut up and put on the crown, shem! Stop running from your responsibility" )

PS: I usually equate "bad feeling about this" in game to "virmire flashbacks". It was the first time that a gaming decision litterally made me leave the computer for a while due to gut punching feeling. I was just so heart breaking for me that I just up n quit for a while. And that emotional memory, seemed to stick.

[d1ta]

I mean, technically, the optimal decision is never recruiting Bull. In that case, Bull survives, the Chargers survive, and the crew of the dreadnought survives.

But yeah, it's always weird having the inquisitor skip content.

That said, my favorite HoF missed out/lost over half his companions because of various fumbles. It ended up giving him a clearer personality. Maybe I should be more judicious about who I recruit and who I leave behind.

.. You have no idea how long it is for me to decide wether to recruit him or not (same here with Sera and Cole.. and Dorian to an extent.. ^^')
But my mentality is geared towards to 'recruit everyone' and 'be nice to everyone'.
But if I were to be the inquisitor (instead of adaar or lavellan) you can bet that I wont be recruiting IB, Cole and be at arms length with Dorian and Sera.
Thedas should be grateful that I didn't become their IQs too much paranoia and not willing to take risks.

But this question does make me kinda wonder, how many people are out there who would actually recruit a self confessed spy from another nation into their military ranks?
IF you are a breathing and living Inquisitor in Thedas, would you really trust him enough to be part of your inner circle?

[Arvaarad]

I figured this would get into a "which choice is better" debate eventually. To me, tactics-wise it's a no-brainer. Whether or not the Ben-Hassrath should have had the foresight to avoid all possible negative outcomes or whatever on the Storm Coast, their aid is far more vital than one single mercenary company. Yes, they're not trustworthy (outside of fighting Corypheus), which is why they're kept at arms-reach when aiding the Inquisition, but their help would be undeniably instrumental in stopping a threat that could consume the world (meta-gaming it of course doesn't matter but whatever). Throughout history major powers have united against common enemies many times despite not trusting each other.

Remember what Iron Bull says when first discussing needing an Inquisitor? "We choose those who can make the hard decisions, and live with the consequences." And as Inquisitor you should be able to make the hard decisions.

...Now... that doesn't mean I always sacrificed the Chargers. When role-playing characters who hated the qun, they let their biases cause them to make a military blunder by saving the Chargers. And after Trespasser that choice is far easier to make. After all, we see what happens to Iron Bull after losing his family. We don't ever see those 100 dead qunari on the dreadnought or those left on Pal-Vollen grieving for them. And we also see that the qunari attack the south two years later regardless of what you do while the Chargers remain loyal. That makes allying with the qunari knowing what's coming harder. It's all emotions and meta-gaming influencing your choices.

Side-note: Speaking of qunari being untrustworthy, in Trespasser it once again shows Leliana's incompetence as a spymaster for just dismissing Iron Bull of not knowing anything about the qunari because he said so. I figured he either was kept in the dark for fear Leliana was actually thorough enough to interrogate him, or he was lying. It turned out to be the latter. Hell, his name is "liar."

Leliana isn't incompetent. She's working for a more powerful employer.

The visions, the entire DLC focused on her, the fact that the titans (or whoever is ultimately behind lyrium's song) think she's important enough to raise from the dead. She's almost certainly a double agent. Possibly an unknowing one, but a double agent nonetheless.

If killed-in-Origins-Leliana had been raised by a faith spirit, I'd say it was just luck she came back. But lyrium's song raised her, and gave her a job to do.

What could that job be, but influencing the inquisition? And what better way to influence an organization than by planting its spymaster, the person who vets everyone else? Who's in charge of screening her? Who checks whether she's intentionally skipping over people? No one.

She says "I must have missed X, Y, and Z shifty-looking people", and we believe her. We look at this Orlesian bard who grew up soaked in the Game, and we totally buy it.

Yes, you must have made a mistake, silly you!

Oh, another mistake, how clumsy!

Our entire organization is riddled with Ben-Hassrath and agents of Fen'Harel? Pish-tosh, these things happen from time to time.

Ah, I see you turned into a flock of birds and flew away, saying your work here is done? My, my, how quirky and adorable and completely unsuspicious!