28 réponses à ce sujet

[beancounter501]

Like the title says.  I am curious what everyone's favorite spell line is for crowd control.


Earth:  Earthquake, Petrify
Cold: Winters Grasp, Cold of Cone, Blizard
Debilitating: Paralysis, Mass Paralysis
Hex: Misdirection Hex
Sleep: Horror, Sleep, Walking Nightmare
Telekinesis: Mind Blast, Force Field, Crushing Prison
Glyph: Glyph of Paralysis, Glyph of Repulsion, Glyph Combo
Summoning: Grease

I think that is all of the crowd control spells.  Now I know the cold line is great and the Glyph line is pretty sweet too.  But I have had very little experience with the others.  So lets hear it!

[lightstryker]

Virulent Walking Bomb can take out a lot of enemies if the infected target explodes in group. And it can infect others as well. And if you're worried about friendly fire, its blast radius appears to be smaller for allies than it is for enemies so it works out. Affliction or Death Hex+Death Cloud is pretty powerful, too. And probably the best crowd control spell in the game, Blood Wound. (if you're a Blood Mage) That spell just sets them up for yet more crowd control spells, which means quick deaths!

My favorite though is Grease+Fireball as they slip on the grease then get blasted by fire while they're down or getting up. Destroys most groups quickly and easily (as long as they're not resistant to fire) just dont get your teammates caught in the blast!

Modifié par lightstryker, 28 janvier 2010 - 01:49 .

[Jannamarie]

I like to have my mid level mage fire these off in sequence Petrify, Glyph of Paralysis, Crushing Prison, Paralyze, walking bomb (this is great to use against archers who will explode at a distance from your team members). I always fill out the Telekinesis line early on in order to get crushing prison, and the Cold line to get Petrify.



By the higher levels, I like to add mass paralysis and virulent walking bomb (not for the infecting part, but for same archer control as the lower level).

[stribies]

Fireball, sleep, mass paralyze are my personal favorites.

[x-president]

I really like the Sleep line, all fast casting. 

[dkjestrup]

Blood Wound, Sleep, Paralysis Explosion are my favourite.



Going through the fade, I love Glyph of Repulsion. It would be extremely useful on a caster solo, I'd imagine, as the enemies can't touch you (most of the time).



It's a shame though. I reckon the caster should be immune to the friendly fire of that combo.



Fireball is brilliant for archers though.

[soteria]

Fireball, blood wound, cone of cold, sleep, paralysis explosion. And blood control. Blood wound is stupidly good. Same radius as sleep, but it does damage at the same time and enemies don't wake up when you attack them.

[beancounter501]

Thnks for the comments. I respeced Wynne to have the sleep spell and I was not overly impressed. It just seems like it buys you a couple of seconds to heal up. But invariably someone starts to attack and they wake up. How do you guys find it so useful?



And for Walking Nightmare, to people break the spell once your party attacks them?



Also is Mass Paralysis any good? Does it have a big range or is it party friendly?

[Kaoschizm]

For single target crowd control force field line is probably the best. Crushing prison and force field take two enemies out of the game right there, they are instant cast with no projectile and a long range; crushing prison will likely kill the target. Mind blast is a decent AOE stun but doesn't really last very long, but nice to give you a second to set up a cone of cold or a glyph of repulsion.



For group CC the glyphs are amazing, repulse works so well to keep baddies off your toon, paralysis combo has a huge AOE and is instant, although works better when you have two mages to cast the two glyphs simultaneously. Glyph of paralysis is also a nice single target stun which has a very long duration and can also be used as a trap; it also has a short cooldown.



Cold is great for cone of cold, very short cooldown and great when you're facing melee hordes, blizzard can also be good when you have time to set it up, works well in tandem with glyph of repulsion - block a doorway then throw down a blizzard.



Stone I found underwhelming, petrify is an okay single target crowd control but for a 4th tier skill it's a bit lacking, it has a projectile and a shorter range than glyph of paralysis, which outclasses it in almost every way and is tier 1. Earthquake is very meh, the glyph combo seems to serve the same purpose a lot better. Stone fist is a fairly tame CC but very nice for the shatter combo, and it's okay damage, not bad for a tier 2 skill.



Haven't had much experience with the paralysis or the sleep lines yet so I can't really comment much on those ones.

[soteria]

beancounter501 wrote...

Thnks for the comments. I respeced Wynne to have the sleep spell and I was not overly impressed. It just seems like it buys you a couple of seconds to heal up. But invariably someone starts to attack and they wake up. How do you guys find it so useful?

And for Walking Nightmare, to people break the spell once your party attacks them?

Also is Mass Paralysis any good? Does it have a big range or is it party friendly?

Sleep requires some micro over your party to work properly.  Mainly, make sure everyone is attacking the same target, then cast sleep.  Cast horror on one of the sleeping targets to kill them.  Just kill stuff one by one after using sleep.  Waking Nightmare I'm not a huge fan of, because I focus so heavily on control.  I haven't used it a heck of a lot as a result and I couldn't describe the mechanics to you.

Mass Paralysis is good--it has the same radius as fireball, and is party friendly.  Thing is, it's more expensive than paralysis explosion, is more likely to be resisted, and doesn't seem to last as long.  Also, it has a cast time which makes it harder to get off than two glyphs (longer, and you have to get the entire cast off rather than in two separate casts).  Being party friendly is a huge plus, though, since it means your rogue(s) can get off free backstabs on anything.

[Akimb0]

Mass Paralysis is without a doubt my favourite spell in the game. AoE, no FF, enemies don't "wake up/recover" when you hit them. Reasonable duration. Cast that, then Virulent walking bomb, then kill the original target = everything dies in a huge spray of gore.

[x-president]

Sleep + Walking NIghtmare works good on archers.  Those packs of archers that you can't really reach, hit them with sleep, then walking nightmare.  They'll start to attack eac other.  That'll give you some damage and time to dispatch the melee attacks.

It can also give you time to drop another AoE on top of them.


Sleep works good as a corridinated attack.  Each member attacks a seperate enemy once casted.  It gives you the time to setup.  Maybe get an easy shatter setup or time to close in on a mage. 

[Treason1]

Sleep, Blood Wound and Force Field are, in my experience, the best CC spells in the game. No FF. Large radius.

Heck, Force Field all on it's own is obscenely good.

[draxynnus]

I haven't really tried the Paralysis line, but I'd say the Glyphs are probably the most versatile - you can use Glyph of Paralysis as a direct spell or a trap, Repulsion will keep enemies away or block a doorway for you, you can combine them to get Paralysis Explosion, and sometimes you might even find Warding useful (or even Neutralisation, if you bother to pick it up). Just be careful not to set off a Paralysis Explosion accidentally.



Of the others: Earthquake is useful because it doesn't do anything strange with other spells (it'll neither catch alight or douse flames (note that Blizzard grants 50% fire resistance to victims as well as dousing grease fires) or potentially turn into a SotC) and is instant cast. Petrify is, as has been said, an underwhelming 4th-tier choice, but it does mean you can pull off a Shattering just out of a single line, and Stone Fist can be useful when you don't have other options (or you don't want to use them just yet).



Fireball is not to be underestimated as a fire-and-forget knock-em-down spell as well as damage - you can throw it just before the melee goes in without interfering with said melee.



Cold-wise: Winter's Grasp tends to only infict a momentary slowdown, while Cone of Cold is likely to freeze whatever it hits for a moderate time, making it a very useful close-in CC. Blizzard has an advantage over Earthquake and Grease that it'll deal some damage itself, but it interacts in strange ways with a lot of the spells you'd otherwise want to combine with it (most Blizzard-related spell combinations seemed aimed at weakening the combination, although Storm of the Century can still be useful to have in your toolbox) apart from Death Cloud.



Hexes and Sleep I haven't really had enough experience with to comment, except that they do the job...sometimes (but most CC is like that).



Telekinesis is good - Mind Blast'll give you a short-term stun against nearby targets. Crushing Prison is generally best used on spellcasters - any non-spellcaster worth using it on'll probably resist anyway. Force Field is good because it's rarely if ever resisted, and it gives you an emergency option to use if it looks like someone's about to die and there's no other way to prevent it. Shockwave is...not worth using two high-recharge spells on, especially in the PC version where you can't pull that combo on an ally.



Grease, again, I haven't really used. Seems to be basically an Earthquake that pays for its lower position on the tree by no longer serving as a snare if it gets hit by fire damage - although some will say the Grease Fire is a plus rather than a minus (especially if you can combine it with an Earthquake)

[beancounter501]

Lots of good information in here! I have been experimenting with the Paralyze line just now and it is really good.

Also, I gave Fireball another chance. And it is pretty impressive. Just tell the party to stay hold so they don't run into the blast and start the fight with that. Good knockdown effect. Then drop a Glyph of Warding on everyone(I think it is +30 Def with a +30 Def against archers), turn off the hold command and then Mass Paralyze. It made a couple of hard fights super easy. And with the fast recharge on fireball you can start nuking archers. Since I like a melee heavy party the Paralyze/Glyph line are just so effective.

Going the Glyph Line and Paralyze line really gives you some solid spells. Only turd in the whole group is weakness. Yuck. Miasma is pretty good to after you have unloaded a lot of your mana.

I still can not get along with the sleep line as well. Too much micro. Same with the big AoE DoT spells. More trouble they seem worth sometimes. Rather just Mass Paralyze and hack em up.

Edit: I actually can see combining Mind Blast into that combo as well.   Right after the Glyph of Warding cast Mind Blast on the melee critters swarming the party and then Mass Paralyze!  The funny thing is I was respecing Wynne as an Arcane Warrior and she never had to pull out a sword.  Everyone was already dead!

Modifié par beancounter501, 28 janvier 2010 - 03:01 .

[Akimb0]

beancounter501 wrote...

Lots of good information in here! I have been experimenting with the Paralyze line just now and it is really good.

Going the Glyph Line and Paralyze line really gives you some solid spells. Only turd in the whole group is weakness. Yuck. Miasma is pretty good to after you have unloaded a lot of your mana.

I still can not get along with the sleep line as well. Too much micro. Same with the big AoE DoT spells. More trouble they they seem worth sometimes. Rather just Mass Paralyze and hack em up.

I really should try out the Glyph line of spells sometime, I always consider them, but they never seem to make it into my spell list. How many glyph of paralysis can you have set at once? I seem to remember seeing 5 somewhere, but for the life of me can't find it. I can see that it'd be pretty useful if you have time to prepare a battle field. The only problem with that is the 40 second cool down and that it only affects one enemy. Glyph of repulsion however seems like a solid investment.

I don't see what you have against Weakness, I set it as "If self being attacked by Melee - Weakness". The slowdown effect alone allows the caster to then easily kite whatever's attacking them.

As for the sleep line, it's another one I've never tried. I think that's mostly due to the sleep effect wearing off at the first attack. However I can see it's use as a shutdown for archers and the like.

The most important factor for me with CC spells is definitely friendly fire. Cone of cold is great, so is Blizzard, but I almost always run my mages from their tactics settings (Advanced Tactics Mod is great.) so they'd either end up never using them, or hitting my team with FF. Paralyse, Glyphs and Sleep are all FF safe, so they win out for me.

[beancounter501]

The Glyph line is really good. You can only have two glyphes of paralysis up for a short period of time. The first will dispate soon after the second one is cast. But it is party friendly.



Glyph of Warding gives you a +30 defense and an additional +30 defense against archers. (Yikes that is +60 defense against archers. Glyph of Repulsion is awesome and you can combine Paralysis & Replusion for a instant paralysis effect that lasts 20 second in a big area of effect. There is NO save against that other then magic resistance. But watch for friendly fire. If you have dispel magic you can dispel the paralysis effect though. Just make sure your mage gets out of the blast radius! I played around with sending Alistar into a big group and taunting. Then doing the glyph combo right on top of him. Dispel Alistar and butcher everyone. Just brutal.





The last Glyph is decent. It will completely shutdown a mage. It is no Mana Clash, but then you don't have too take three junk spells to get it.

[Random70]

beancounter501 wrote...

The last Glyph is decent. It will completely shutdown a mage. It is no Mana Clash, but then you don't have too take three junk spells to get it.

Agree about the first two, but spell might is far from junk. At high levels it can add more than 20+ to your spell power. Very useful for a party mage and I'd call it vital for a soloist.

Last night did Jarvia. Morrigan cast spell might -> death cloud-> vulnerability hex -> affliction hex-> death hex at her. Death Hex hit for 1000+...

[kasanza]

Yep, glyphs rule. I have Wynne auto cast them. Paraylsis on melee and Repulsion on archers. Sometimes the two overlap and the whole party gets hit, but somehow we can barely get hit during this. It seems the AI gets confused and just runs around clueless. Priceless!

Modifié par kasanza, 28 janvier 2010 - 04:41 .

[beancounter501]

Random70 wrote...

Last night did Jarvia. Morrigan cast spell might -> death cloud-> vulnerability hex -> affliction hex-> death hex at her. Death Hex hit for 1000+...

I would not want to be on the receiving end of that combo!  Glad to hear spell might has some use.  Still I wonder how much spell might added to the total dmg?  Probably more useful to a direct damage mage the a CC mage.

Still, I am loving my new respecced Wynne!  Some healing spells, all of the Paralysis/Glyph lines, Mind Blast and Fire through fireball.  I even dropped of Haste, but the extra crowd control more then makes up for it.  She really compliments my current party of Alistar, a Two Hand Warrior and Shale.  Thinking about dropping Shale though.  He is not really carrying his weight as much anymore.  I may sub in Sten. 

[dkjestrup]

Sub in Zev!

[Random70]

beancounter501 wrote...

I would not want to be on the receiving end of that combo!  Glad to hear spell might has some use.  Still I wonder how much spell might added to the total dmg?  Probably more useful to a direct damage mage the a CC mage.

For the most part though several of the CC spells (crushing prison, cone of cold, etc.) also have a damage component. Additionaly, it will increase the efficacy of your heal spells should you chose to use them.

To answer your original question, glyphs are probably the best pure CC spells you can get. Paralysis Explosion in particular is extremely effective with a huge radius and a full 20 sec. hold. Just watch where you aim it.

The best all-around lines, IMO, are cold and telekinetic. With CC, damage and utility, these two lines offer a little of everything.

[Toryss]

This thread definitely does a good job to sell the glyph spells. I'm another one who rarely used them, may have to put them to use with my evil mage that I'll be playing as next.



Usually not one for self-promotion, but if you're on the PC, and want to play with an AoE silence (and 3 other spells), feel free to try my mod listed in my sig.

[dkjestrup]

Okay, the Glyphs are awesome. All the crowd control you need in the game is the Glyphs + Blood Wound (or sleep, or whatever).



I really wish that Paralysis Explosion didn't affect the caster (or any spell for that matter), the rest of the party, sure, but not me.



It would be great if you could cast a glyph of Repulsion at your feet, then before it runs out, a Glyph or Paralysis.

[x-president]

You should be able to cast Shockwave on yourself.  That's be awesome sense the center doesn't get effected.  The ultimate knock back spell.



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