As I said, if Solas doesn't care about what he did to the elves then why reach out to any of them at all? He would have no reason to do so and that's the point you're missing.
Yes, because people who need pawns to achieve their goals have never reached out to others and pretended to have their best interests at heart.
Yes, because people who need expendable pawns have never reached out to them and pretended to have their best interests at heart.
Wait a minute, that's exactly what Corypheus did to the Venatori, and to others through them and other pawns.
The game makes it quite clear that Solas and Corypheus are not the same person. That makes sense, since it makes Solas a much more interesting character. So this argument falls apart as well.
I definitely think Solas will, as a general, sacrifice some elven lives to achieve the ultimate goal... restoring the elves with the Fade and their former society. But this still involves saving most of the elves, since one cannot have an elven society without elves.
@Almostfaceman: And I disagree with it. *shrugs*
You're seeing what you want to see and claiming it as fact.
I don't see it. I see a being that sees a lot of useful tools to use for his ends.
Solas: You were people, and you deserved better... like all the rest I have used in one hopeless battle after another.
The game makes it quite clear that Solas and Corypheus are not the same person. That makes sense, since it makes Solas a much more interesting character. So this argument falls apart as well.
I definitely think Solas will, as a general, sacrifice some elven lives to achieve the ultimate goal... restoring the elves with the Fade and their former society. But this still involves saving most of the elves, since one cannot have an elven society without elves.
No, it doesn't. It does the opposite and paints Solas as practically a mirror image of Corypheus. Both are men from a different time who awake to see the world they knew is gone and now will do whatever it takes to get it back.
I don't know. Solas and Corypheus were pretty similar. Both wanted into the Fade. Both wanted to restore their lost empires. Both wanted to "correct" the world. Both looked down on others as not even being people. Both had some small level of concern for one or two people close to them, and cared about what they thought. That is, Cory cared a little about Calpernia, and Solas cared about possibly about the female elf but also Flemeth. Both used the ones they cared for to get what they wanted. If Felassan was killed by Solas, then there's another similarity, as Corypheus tries to (or does) kill Avernus for his failure. Both want to claim ultimate power. Both want to rule over their empires. The only obvious difference is that Solas claims to want people to live in blissful ignorance before they die. Corypheus? Not so much.
I think people read too much into the "your people" "my people" phrasings. I think they did this mainly so that the dialogue could be interchangeable between the different races the PC can be.
I don't see much difference between Solas and Corypheus at all....save only that Solas looks better and at least pretends to care about the people he wants to slaughter.
I think people read too much into the "your people" "my people" phrasings. I think they did this mainly so that the dialogue could be interchangeable between the different races the PC can be.
I think people are reading it correctly. That is Solas really doesn't view anyone else save the ancient Elvhan as real INCLUDING modern elves (of all sorts). I note that even Abellas calls the Dalish Qwizzy "flat ear" and Solas says nothing.
No, it doesn't. It does the opposite and paints Solas as practically a mirror image of Corypheus. Both are men from a different time who awake to see the world they knew is gone and now will do whatever it takes to get it back.
How does it paint Solas and Corypheus as a mirror image?
@Almostfaceman: And I disagree with it. *shrugs*
You're seeing what you want to see and claiming it as fact.I don't see it. I see a being that sees a lot of useful tools to use for his ends.
Solas: You were people, and you deserved better... like all the rest I have used in one hopeless battle after another.
Of course he's used people. Leaders, by definition, use people. But that doesn't mean the leader, or general, doesn't care, or can't care about the people they use. To suggest otherwise is a rather juvenile viewpoint.
In real life, there are situations that have nothing but crappy solutions. I'm not sure about in this case... but I tend to think it may have been so when Solas - when presented with the world ending at the hands of the Evanuris - made the decision to raise the Veil over the Fade.
Solas quite clearly grows to care for all the people of Thedas, which makes his decision more interesting and nuanced.
Why do I think he cares? There's a whole host of things he talks about that have nothing to do with maintaining some "cover" about being a modern elf. Plus, we have the Trespasser DLC, where the Inquisitor is put in the position of being totally vulnerable to Solas. Does Solas do the easy thing and kill the Inquisitor? That would be the most logical thing to do, if he were a callous person intent only on maintaining some cover while he works to throw down the Veil. No, he doesn't kill the Inquisitor, because he cares and much of what he reveals about his character... is genuine.
I want to make it clear, that I don't agree with Solas about destroying Thedas. Killing so many people to restore the elves is reprehensible... but Solas has a conscience.
I think we'll be able to use that conscience to bend him away from this genocide, in DA4. This was not something at play, at all, in the case of Corypheus.
I think that "destroy your world" doesn't mean destroy the physical world and all living creatures. I think it means destroying all the present cultures and power structures. Every people group would be starting over from square one, except for the elves. People would probably savagely slaughter each other in their attempts to regain power, like in a post-apocalypse story.
I think people are reading it correctly. That is Solas really doesn't view anyone else save the ancient Elvhan as real INCLUDING modern elves (of all sorts). I note that even Abellas calls the Dalish Qwizzy "flat ear" and Solas says nothing.
I thought that was funny. It does show that these ancient elves were elitist.
I think that "destroy your world" doesn't mean destroy the physical world and all living creatures. I think it means destroying all the present cultures and power structures. Every people group would be starting over from square one, except for the elves. People would probably savagely slaughter each other in their attempts to regain power, like in a post-apocalypse story.
Somehow that doesn't make it any better in my eyes at least.
I think that "destroy your world" doesn't mean destroy the physical world and all living creatures. I think it means destroying all the present cultures and power structures. Every people group would be starting over from square one, except for the elves. People would probably savagely slaughter each other in their attempts to regain power, like in a post-apocalypse story.
Coming soon: Dragon Age: Age of Apocalypse.
.
So...
Solas = Dr. Jekyll
Fen'Harel = Mr. Hyde
?
I think that "destroy your world" doesn't mean destroy the physical world and all living creatures. I think it means destroying all the present cultures and power structures. Every people group would be starting over from square one, except for the elves. People would probably savagely slaughter each other in their attempts to regain power, like in a post-apocalypse story.
I agree. Solas himself makes the distinction in some of his dialogue from Trespasser:
So...
Solas = Dr. Jekyll
Fen'Harel = Mr. Hyde
?
Cool siggy.
Hmm, I say that more depends on point of view. For the elves that "Fen'Harel" freed, they probably looked at him as more of a "man of the people" and "general". "Mr. Hyde" only fits as denizens of the modern world of Thedas will probably come to see Fen'Harel.
We really don't know much about the history of Solas before he was given the "Fen'Harel" moniker by the Evanuris. Other than he is one of the "first of his people" like Mythal... and possibly was a member of the Evanuris. It's odd, he speaks of the Evanuris almost as an outsider, one who watched generals become leaders then gods... not necessarily one who went through the same metamorphis.
I thought that was funny. It does show that these ancient elves were elitist.
I find it interesting that all of the races exhibit elitist attitudes, both to other races and members of their own race. Like the aliens in Mass Effect, all races have their elitist snobby a-holes.
I think that "destroy your world" doesn't mean destroy the physical world and all living creatures. I think it means destroying all the present cultures and power structures. Every people group would be starting over from square one, except for the elves. People would probably savagely slaughter each other in their attempts to regain power, like in a post-apocalypse story.
Depends what the "raw chaos" is that he spoke of. It could be like in the Shattered Library where people will fall into nothingness or be stranded on floating rocks and eventually starve to death. But even if its a matter of reality not making sense and causing buildings to topple and yet humans will survive and grab for power, I still don't think Solas would allow this. He would protect his new world by killing all those who pose a threat to it. In my opinion, Solas thinks that destroying the Veil will in essence clear the "canvas" of all paint. Thus allowing him to paint a new picture.
Coming soon: Dragon Age: Age of Apocalypse.
.
Or, Fallout 5: The Dragon Age.
The thing I find MOST laughable... is that he "claims" to have had a "plan" for the Forgotten Ones AND the Evanuris... which his fool plan will release and who will all very likely join forces to kill him first.
Yeah - right.. you're definitely not the "God of Good Plans" Solas.
And if he was interested in being anything but smug and obtuse... maybe he could explain what he means when he says the Veil was better than ANY other option at the time...and why he thinks taking it down now is a good idea.
Yeah - cause history NEVER repeats itself Solas. In your "new" elven world seven new elves certainly would NEVER gain obscene power - usurp your "benevolent" rule... and become the new Evanuris... slaughter more dwarves... enslave more elves... kill more titans... possibly create more darkspawn...
Well... it wouldn't if you left the Veil up, but you're as backward thinking as the Dalish.
I don't know. Solas and Corypheus were pretty similar. Both wanted into the Fade. Both wanted to restore their lost empires. Both wanted to "correct" the world. Both looked down on others as not even being people. Both had some small level of concern for one or two people close to them, and cared about what they thought. That is, Cory cared a little about Calpernia, and Solas cared about possibly about the female elf but also Flemeth. Both used the ones they cared for to get what they wanted. If Felassan was killed by Solas, then there's another similarity, as Corypheus tries to (or does) kill Avernus for his failure. Both want to claim ultimate power. Both want to rule over their empires. The only obvious difference is that Solas claims to want people to live in blissful ignorance before they die. Corypheus? Not so much.
I am not seeing any desire to rule in Solas, but yes, there are some similarities which people should consider. That Solas comes across as more sympathetic for a variety of reasons means that the writers have succeeded in making him trigger different emotions, but if you take a step back - as you should - the similarities become more apparent. One wonders: if you're set to accept the death of millions as a price for realizing your vision of the future, does it really matter that this pains you as well? One would think so, since that would mean you'd change your methods if presented with a better way to get to the same goal, but Corypheus might do the same for reasons of expediency and a better reputation. No matter that my Inquisitor loves Solas, she'll never forget that he was responsible for the death of millions in the past, and may yet be again. His perspective is not necessarily wrong for all that - IMO the human perspective is flawed enough that *it* can be wrong instead, from some quite rational point of view - but those deaths can't be discounted.
I don't know. Solas and Corypheus were pretty similar. Both wanted into the Fade. Both wanted to restore their lost empires. Both wanted to "correct" the world. Both looked down on others as not even being people. Both had some small level of concern for one or two people close to them, and cared about what they thought. That is, Cory cared a little about Calpernia, and Solas cared about possibly about the female elf but also Flemeth. Both used the ones they cared for to get what they wanted. If Felassan was killed by Solas, then there's another similarity, as Corypheus tries to (or does) kill Avernus for his failure. Both want to claim ultimate power. Both want to rule over their empires. The only obvious difference is that Solas claims to want people to live in blissful ignorance before they die. Corypheus? Not so much.
If one goes down the time-travel-into-the-future path in recruiting the mages, a world ruled by Corypheus seems to be a world dying from cancer/Blight. Red lyrium is everywhere. The Fade is bleeding through more rifts and more demons are pouring through. Corypheus has clearly forgotten all about Thedas and is letting it slowly destroy itself. He's really only interested in one thing, gaining more magical power. The more Blight, the more red lyrium, the more his power grows. The more people that are dead on Thedas, the less there are to challenge his power. Corypheus wants to step away from his humanity into godhood. With Corypheus... nothing has a chance to settle down and everybody will probably end up a red crystal lollipop.
On the other hand, we have Solas. If his plan is achieved, the Veil will be gone and Thedas will return to its natural state. No world dying from the cancer of the Blight (red lyrium) and no mass invasion of demons, since demons are a product of the violent transference of spirit from Fade to real world through the rifts. No Veil = no rifts. If Solas's plan to take out the Evanuris is successful, he would probably assume whatever role he had before - which was not "world leader". With Solas, I could see, with time, the races achieving an equilibrium with one another after they settle back into a natural existence (whatever that is like) with the Fade. Solas eschews godhood and values individual freedoms and self-rule. He would resist the establishment of another Evanuris.
Solas probably even tells himself that everyone will be better off in the long run since raising the Veil has essentially tranquil-fied everybody. How are the humans and qunari to evolve naturally with the Fade if the Veil is up? They can't. How many mages and others have died because of the demons created by the Veil and its odd effect on spirits relating with the real world? Seems like lots.
Short term, Solas and Corypheus would kill a lot of people to achieve what they want. After that, their similarities end. Also, Solas is the only one out of the two I see being able to convince to modify their plan so that a lot of people aren't assuming room temperature.
If one goes down the time-travel-into-the-future path in recruiting the mages, a world ruled by Corypheus seems to be a world dying from cancer/Blight. Red lyrium is everywhere. The Fade is bleeding through more rifts and more demons are pouring through. Corypheus has clearly forgotten all about Thedas and is letting it slowly destroy itself. He's really only interested in one thing, gaining more magical power. The more Blight, the more red lyrium, the more his power grows. The more people that are dead on Thedas, the less there are to challenge his power. Corypheus wants to step away from his humanity into godhood. With Corypheus... nothing has a chance to settle down and everybody will probably end up a red crystal lollipop.
On the other hand, we have Solas. If his plan is achieved, the Veil will be gone and Thedas will return to its natural state. No world dying from the cancer of the Blight (red lyrium) and no mass invasion of demons, since demons are a product of the violent transference of spirit from Fade to real world through the rifts. No Veil = no rifts. If Solas's plan to take out the Evanuris is successful, he would probably assume whatever role he had before - which was not "world leader". With Solas, I could see, with time, the races achieving an equilibrium with one another after they settle back into a natural existence (whatever that is like) with the Fade. Solas eschews godhood and values individual freedoms and self-rule. He would resist the establishment of another Evanuris.
Solas probably even tells himself that everyone will be better off in the long run since raising the Veil has essentially tranquil-fied everybody. How are the humans and qunari to evolve naturally with the Fade if the Veil is up? They can't. How many mages and others have died because of the demons created by the Veil and its odd effect on spirits relating with the real world? Seems like lots.
Short term, Solas and Corypheus would kill a lot of people to achieve what they want. After that, their similarities end. Also, Solas is the only one out of the two I see being able to convince to modify their plan so that a lot of people aren't assuming room temperature.
And this assumptions is based on what? Besides Solas telling you so, of course.
And this assumptions is based on what? Besides Solas telling you so, of course.
Bioware is telling a story. "Solas telling us" is the method for telling us Solas's story. The vast amount of what we know about him I consider reliable since it's not necessary for a "cover" identity.
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