133 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

It's interesting you mentioned Evil Kanieval because I used to watch a bunch of his things... for the sole purpose of going "That is not something I would ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, want to do, and thank powers I'm here and not watching it." 

 

So yeah if some daredevil stunt person (in theory, not Evil Kanieval or whatever) was like "Hey now you go do this jump now" I'd yeah have to say he's (or she's?) worse than a piece of crap, he would (in that case) be literally a festering maggot of putrid bile. 

 

I mean considering I have no skill at the thing I'd probably crash and die or be mangled so yeah in that specific theoretical instance it's basically akin to extreme physical violence towards whoever or some such. 

[Almostfaceman]

So yeah if some daredevil stunt person (in theory, not Evil Kanieval or whatever) was like "Hey now you go do this jump now" I'd yeah have to say he's (or she's?) worse than a piece of crap, he would (in that case) be literally a festering maggot of putrid bile. 

Yeah, but that wasn't why I was bringing up "Evel" Knievel. Like I just explained in post #125. 

[Macha'Anu]

The fact you call it "adventure" says all I really need to know anyway.  

 

Luke Skywalker is not "thankful" for the Empire... or the war he has to wage... or the fact that his father cuts off his hand... it's precisely because those moments brought him great pain that he grew from them.   You can appreciate that you overcame a struggle without thinking those things are good or that you would happily do them all over again...

 

Which is why so many people say:  "Knowing what I do now... " because if they didn't know they were going to learn from a real struggle, they wouldn't "do it all over again."

 

I'd keep any psycho that prefers "adventure" at arms length... because I've had my fill thanks.  

 

NOTE:  There's also a huge difference between crafting a story with an antagonist and a struggle.... and discussing how I feel about an antagonist and the struggle he causes. 

All life is an adventure even if an uneventful one. why exactly are we being so hostile to the op? I mean honestly the whole OP was well thought out and makes plenty of sense. Seems to me the only reason are being as argumentive as they are is cause "Rawr solas is bad mkay" Most of us understand hes bad. even going to become a monster. He says so. even if he says hes not a monster he eventually says " I cannot have you see what I become" Hes not completely denying it. in fact he kinda contradicts himself at that point i guess. I mean god forbid anyone want to try and redeem someone who's a god himself in a sense.....

What I dont get is how some people who dislike solas can admantly defend some of the atrocities thats happened leading to the templar mage war. like hello abomination tower and how are ya harvester and in loving memory to all those left to die at ostagar..

 

Just like solas, the did what THEY felt was nesassary to survive and to make things right. The goal and I THINK the point of tresspasser, can we show enough compassion to Solas to either change his mind or, stop him at any cost. even the cost of innocent lives. This whole dragon age landscape it seems to me is people going to extremes to try and get some kind of justice or liberty. And yet. As I have been saying. Solas is the only real monster anyone sees. which is odd since I persoanlly seen many monsters through out the franchise, most of whom are excusecd or defended. EVEN Loghain..... Some people wanted to see redeeming qualities in the king killer and a lot of people even myself as a devout mage, want to see reedeeming qualities in those who choose to go dark to win.

 

Some people just would like to hope they can help someone who is obviously lost and shattered, find their pieces and do good again. There is nothing wrong with wanting to save someone. Be they mage, templar, Loghain or even solas.

[Merlin217]

Completely agreed. I especially appreciate your readings into his attempts of reaching out to his kins and that it shows his interpretation of what is to be of 'elven'.

Now that I've finished Trespasser, reading between his lines, I can actually sympathise with his sorrow

[Medhia_Nox]

All life is an adventure even if an uneventful one. why exactly are we being so hostile to the op? I mean honestly the whole OP was well thought out and makes plenty of sense. Seems to me the only reason are being as argumentive as they are is cause "Rawr solas is bad mkay" Most of us understand hes bad. even going to become a monster. He says so. even if he says hes not a monster he eventually says " I cannot have you see what I become" Hes not completely denying it. in fact he kinda contradicts himself at that point i guess. I mean god forbid anyone want to try and redeem someone who's a god himself in a sense.....

What I dont get is how some people who dislike solas can admantly defend some of the atrocities thats happened leading to the templar mage war. like hello abomination tower and how are ya harvester and in loving memory to all those left to die at ostagar..

 

Just like solas, the did what THEY felt was nesassary to survive and to make things right. The goal and I THINK the point of tresspasser, can we show enough compassion to Solas to either change his mind or, stop him at any cost. even the cost of innocent lives. This whole dragon age landscape it seems to me is people going to extremes to try and get some kind of justice or liberty. And yet. As I have been saying. Solas is the only real monster anyone sees. which is odd since I persoanlly seen many monsters through out the franchise, most of whom are excusecd or defended. EVEN Loghain..... Some people wanted to see redeeming qualities in the king killer and a lot of people even myself as a devout mage, want to see reedeeming qualities in those who choose to go dark to win.

 

Some people just would like to hope they can help someone who is obviously lost and shattered, find their pieces and do good again. There is nothing wrong with wanting to save someone. Be they mage, templar, Loghain or even solas.

 

If you've ever been an instrument in someone's betterment... you would do well to know that you did not fix them.  You cannot "save" someone - and I'll leave it at "idealism" to think that you can. They used you in a positive way to make a better change for themselves.  This is a good thing, but they made the change, not you.

 

And - if this story was anything more than an "adventure" tale - then it would do better to tell the harder story of a man that won't change regardless of your efforts - because that speaks to reality more.  People with the conviction Solas portrays do not simply see evidence and stop their thinking - that is not how people work - and it is not how people with conviction should be portrayed. 

 

Weak willed people can be easily swayed - but if I give Solas ONE compliment... it is that he is not weak willed.

 

Games are considered for children because they maintain young, idealistic concepts unburdened by the "sometimes" crushing reality of the world of people no longer sheltered.  Everyone can be saved... love conquers all... good always wins... lies all.  Sometimes, people can save themselves - but often they chose not to.  Love conquers the one feeling it, but cannot always conquer the object of affection.  Good often maintains its balance by strategically yielding to evil - but often, in direct contest - good does not win. 

 

It is why we cherish real stories so deeply when our maxims become reality.  When someone saves themselves from iniquity - we are moved.  When love is both felt and returned - we are moved. When good triumphs over evil - we are moved.  It is their rarity that we cherish.  Not so in video games - which present too many victories to even really be considered for children.  In many ways - they are drug like in their delivery of accolades to the player. 

 

Even at their most "gritty" - the protagonist must succeed because a gamer must leave with an endorphin rush because of the "hard earned dollar" they spent on a luxury item.

 

If you ever find a man with the amount of conviction that Solas does in the real world... I would be prepared to kneel or run, because people like Solas in the real world do not abide contest.  People like Solas is presented crush their opponents - convince their proponents to bow in subservience - and cannot be "saved" because to them nothing is wrong.

 

His murder of Felassan was very true to his personality.

 

I would applaud Bioware for being faithful to the being they portrayed... but, I feel they will pander to entertainment over art and certainly not imitate life, but instead send us on an "adventure" to save him from wrong thinking. 

[Macha'Anu]

If you've ever been an instrument in someone's betterment... you would do well to know that you did not fix them. You cannot "save" someone - and I'll leave it at "idealism" to think that you can. They used you in a positive way to make a better change for themselves. This is a good thing, but they made the change, not you.

And - if this story was anything more than an "adventure" tale - then it would do better to tell the harder story of a man that won't change regardless of your efforts - because that speaks to reality more. People with the conviction Solas portrays do not simply see evidence and stop their thinking - that is not how people work - and it is not how people with conviction should be portrayed.

Weak willed people can be easily swayed - but if I give Solas ONE compliment... it is that he is not weak willed.

Games are considered for children because they maintain young, idealistic concepts unburdened by the "sometimes" crushing reality of the world of people no longer sheltered. Everyone can be saved... love conquers all... good always wins... lies all. Sometimes, people can save themselves - but often they chose not to. Love conquers the one feeling it, but cannot always conquer the object of affection. Good often maintains its balance by strategically yielding to evil - but often, in direct contest - good does not win.

It is why we cherish real stories so deeply when our maxims become reality. When someone saves themselves from iniquity - we are moved. When love is both felt and returned - we are moved. When good triumphs over evil - we are moved. It is their rarity that we cherish. Not so in video games - which present too many victories to even really be considered for children. In many ways - they are drug like in their delivery of accolades to the player.

Even at their most "gritty" - the protagonist must succeed because a gamer must leave with an endorphin rush because of the "hard earned dollar" they spent on a luxury item.

If you ever find a man with the amount of conviction that Solas does in the real world... I would be prepared to kneel or run, because people like Solas in the real world do not abide contest. People like Solas is presented crush their opponents - convince their proponents to bow in subservience - and cannot be "saved" because to them nothing is wrong.

His murder of Felassan was very true to his personality.

I would applaud Bioware for being faithful to the being they portrayed... but, I feel they will pander to entertainment over art and certainly not imitate life, but instead send us on an "adventure" to save him from wrong thinking.

Yes but here's is the awesome thing about fantasy and video games. How we see fit to see them play them and approach them is our buisness. You don't agree I'm all for that but darling, you got no place to tell me how to play a game. It's my story to unfold. One thing everyone needs to remember. It's a video game. It's not that super serious.
You support who you want we support who we want but the constant throat shoving of how we should see things or play the game is getting tiring. As I said if we look at the world almost everyone we love in that game is guilty of some kinda sin, or murdered or whatever.
Hero's, true Hero's in thedas are slim pickins by your standards.
Mages and templars that killed dozens of people to survive  or out of ignorance or arrogance. And who knows who else.(
Cullen may have hunted and killed mages who were relatively innocent but orders are orders
How many HoF killed needlessly?
Loghain killed how many and attempted to kill how many?
Alistair may have killed loghain
Leliana.... Yeah she's killed how many.
All these people had the potential to murder someone at some point and yet. They are well loved. Because reasons. But there apparently isn't reason enough to love Solas cause murder. And genocide. It confuses me truly.
This is a dark fantasy. It doesn't have rainbows and unicorns try as we might. It's dark, murderous and gritty. That's how dark fantasy works.
And if a fantasy rpg can't be called an adventure anymore we might as well stop making them. Good grief.

[Macha'Anu]

Btw I'm a domestic violence survivor I've been an instrument of someone's betterment and manipulation. I at least tried for a few years to save him. He just happen to have been true evil. So yes I do well know some people can't be saved. Doesn't mean I cannot make the personal choice to try. But there was a few men I saved from their own self destruction. So try as you might. Sometimes they most certainly can be saved. That's actual reality.

[Almostfaceman]

Btw I'm a domestic violence survivor I've been an instrument of someone's betterment and manipulation. I at least tried for a few years to save him. He just happen to have been true evil. So yes I do well know some people can't be saved. Doesn't mean I cannot make the personal choice to try. But there was a few men I saved from their own self destruction. So try as you might. Sometimes they most certainly can be saved. That's actual reality.

 

I'm glad you made it through your tough situations and I wish you all the best. God bless. 

[Xerrai]

If you've ever been an instrument in someone's betterment... you would do well to know that you did not fix them.  You cannot "save" someone - and I'll leave it at "idealism" to think that you can. They used you in a positive way to make a better change for themselves.  This is a good thing, but they made the change, not you.

Sure, I think in the end it is up to each individual person to take that step toward change. But that doesn't mean they have to do it alone. Friends, loved ones, comrades--all can help pave the way, so to speak, to show/demonstrate/suggest alternatives that help that individual on his way.

 

Just like how Divine Justinia 'saved' Leliana, even though the Divine constantly reminds her that she saved herself.

It is a compelling thing to see or even hear of such uplifting stories of self-betterment.

 

And - if this story was anything more than an "adventure" tale - then it would do better to tell the harder story of a man that won't change regardless of your efforts - because that speaks to reality more.  People with the conviction Solas portrays do not simply see evidence and stop their thinking - that is not how people work - and it is not how people with conviction should be portrayed. 

Actually, I think it would be better if they stuck to an "adventure" tale model than deviating so abruptly. This game has already extended Solas' character by demonstrating that no matter his history with you, he still intends on going about his quest (horrible as it may be). But as always, there is a hope. A hope for something better.

 

And that is a beautiful story (imo).

Now don't get me wrong, I think its quite quaint that you want a more "realistic" (darker) story. But ultimately it is just an opinion of tastes.

 

I'm sure some games (Witcher maybe?)) can deliver on your preferred style of dark fantasy, but the precise reason I'm playing a game instead of participating in life more is because games are more compelling that reality ever could be. Or at least, that's how it is for us in first world countries with a stable family life. Lawful, business as usual, organized routine, etc. Pretty dull really (until riots or something breaks out). Nothing wrong idyllic lifestyle either, it just, you know....real life.

 

I go to games for my compelling experiences, and story-driven games like Dragon Age, Witcher and Elder Scrolls deliver.

 

Just because games have a higher rate of "good" outcomes is not in itself a bad thing. With certain games, maybe, but the dragon age franchise is far from being the typical kiddie 'sunshine and rainbows' game. It has grey areas, it has conflicts with no obvious good/bad side, it has magical tyrants, etc.

 

I would applaud Bioware for being faithful to the being they portrayed... but, I feel they will pander to entertainment over art and certainly not imitate life, but instead send us on an "adventure" to save him from wrong thinking. 

Yeah.....no. This may be true for you but it is certainly not true for a ton of other people. Probably isn't even true when it comes to the developer's views on the matter.

 

If they allow him to be 'saved'--then that itself is being faithful tot he character they portrayed. Maybe not to you, but to several people (and likely the developers), Solas has the potential to be 'saved' and it is totally ok if they go that route. Even if that potential salvation will never be realized, Solas is anything but ecstatic about what he feels he must do in order to right past wrongs.

 

To a friend he says "I would cherish the chance to be wrong". Just about any (I think your approval has to be above 0?) player can choose weather or not they will have the conviction to try and stop Solas. There is no 'absolute enemy' in this case like Corypheaus. We were given no choice with him, and he was created in such a way that it was expected that he would perish. But not Solas. 

 

And I, for one, would be glad if we could indeed 'save' Solas by showing him a better way. Call it pandering if you wish, but I would rather they pander to the likes of me and my ilk rather than die hard "grittier-is-better" crowd.