51 réponses à ce sujet

[Bad King]

If the game is set in Tevinter and revolves around a war between the Tevinters and the Qunari, it would be interesting for a change to have a pro-southern Chantry faction who (like the Venatori in Inquisition or the Thalmor in TES) are working to keep the war dragging on in order to weaken both factions and increase the dominance of the southern Chantry over Thedas. With the role of the Venatori and later the Qunari in destabilising the south, I can definitely see there being many willing recruits from southern Thedas in joining such an organisation (out of revenge). 

 

They could be like a medieval knightly order that establishes a presence in many Tevinter towns on the grounds that they're there to aid them against the Qunari, while secretly plotting to give secret aid to the Qunari in cases where a Tevinter victory looks certain. To make them more morally grey, it would be interesting to see such bases dedicated to the protection and treatment of townspeople and refugees (like the infirmaries of the Knights Hospitaller) in order to win the hearts and minds of the local people over to the southern Chantry (while secretly contributing to their misery by prolonging the war). 

[Dancing_Dolphin]

This is an original idea. I'd at least like to meet this fellow. We've been knee deep in Southern chantry lore for 3 games. It's time to hear the other side of the story. I can't imagine why The Black Divine would be inherently evil though....maybe if he was on a mission to convert all of Thedas to the Imperial Chantry and made a deal with "the devil" to do so.

I remember Dorian mentioned something about the Black Devine that made me think he wasn't a very nice person but that isn't saying much, it is Tevinter after all. I imagine for someone to gain such a powerful position in Tevinter it would require large quantities of ruthlessness and brutality.

[Andromelek]

For the "Rogue" villain, I think some opportunistic revolutionary Fog Warrior who gathers Tal-Vashoth and Tevinter slaves under their banner would be great: Their faction could take advantage of the conflict between Qunari and Tevinter to infiltrate on their ranks, sabotage their plans and given the chance kill their leaders

[SwobyJ]

Hawke/Alistair/Loghain/Stroud as a Demonic Boss.

Hawke can be helped back from this state. The others can't.

Ties in to the Nightmare being an even bigger, though different than in DAI, threat.

 

The one to take center stage shared with, or right above or below Solas (if they save Solas for DA5 we riot, right?), should not be a 'mage'.

I'm thinking something like a Titan consciousness.

 

In terms of more 'grounded' mortal villains, I can do with a scheming Tevinter (drat, that's probably a mage!), Qunari manipulator, or some human that fits into the politics of the mid/north Thedas - Nevarra, Anderfels, Antiva.

 

IMO this series is getting more magical/beyond-even-magical no matter what, but I do support major villains that aren't from such status. I think its inevitable that we're getting huge magical enemies in DA4, but I would like to see one villain that doesn't have any magical association whatsoever. Since we got the Champion with Loghain, I could take this villain to instead be of a more Rogue-y variety (combat, thematically).

 

If the game brings in an Old God/Archdemon I wouldn't mind, but I think if it happens, it'll end up as more of a non-enemy character than before. I can imagine a weird scenario like the Wardens imprisoning it for some plan and us attempting to purify it instead of gang up on it.

 

EDIT: Oh right, Black Divine stuff! I could take that in either DA4 or DA5. Whatever DA takes place in Minrathos IMO. I can see Tevinter playing a part in both games really, in different ways and extents.

 

EDIT: I would like Solas related material to take a good 1/4-1/3 of the game, but since so much of his story starts in DAI, I don't consider it fair if it dominates DA4's plot. Instead, I'd like his plan and character and actions to weave around many of the things we see in the game, but rarely take prominence.

Might be cool to see Morrigan in a relatively villainous role, but I could do without her until DA5 tbh.

[ThePhoenixKing]

A couple points.

 

First, have it either be Solas or a brand-new villain. I'm honestly sick at this point of Face Heel Turns: they've become the first option for writers when they want to inject some conflict but are simply too lazy to actually create a worthwhile antagonist. It doesn't matter if its the Grey Wardens or Revan or Cortana or Kael'thas or the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood of Steel, it always comes across as lazy, arbitrary, contrived and disrespectful to the fans. Having our favourite characters suddenly become villains doesn't make things much tragic or dramatic; it just serves to undermine past stories and ultimately ****** people off. So in the future, Bioware needs to start making new foes for us to fight, rather than just recycling past companions/organizations as antagonists.

 

Second, make it a villain we can definitively kill. No more metaphysical mumbo-jumbo, no more technobabble solutions, make the villain someone or something we can put a sword into. On a similar note, decisively end their story as well at the end of the game. Bioware's had a real problem with kicking the proverbial can down the line to future installments (ie: The Mage-Templar War, Solas), and for once, it would be nice to have something be resolved effectively without having to buy DLC or a sequel to see how it ends. (See Starcraft II: Legacy of the Void for an example of how to do it right, or at least better).

 

Third, make the villain's power level reasonable. One of the major problems with Corypheus was how utterly overpowered he was: he had magical abilities "greater than the Maker", his reincarnation ability could work on any Blight-touched entity with no maximum range. This presented two problems: not only did it completely undercut his menace by having this supremely powerful being get foiled time and time again, it also meant, again, that a technobabble solution was required to defeat him (in this case, by shunting his spirit to the Fade using the Orb). You had the same problem with the Reapers too: they were so unbelievably strong that the only way to stop them was with the convenient MacGuffin. That's not to say that you can't have a powerful foe. The Archdemon worked okay because as powerful as it was, it could still be harmed and killed (albeit with great difficulty, and by a Wardent to stop it reincarnating). Loghain too was a credible villain because so much of his power was based in politics, and his reputation as the Hero of River Dane, a power you had to work damned hard to undermine. Making god-like powerful villains never works out.

[Illegitimus]

Considering that you are going to be operating covertly in Tevinter the obvious other enemy is whoever is in charge of stopping spies and rebels in Tevinter.  

[90s Kai]

For me, it would have to be a blood-thirsty villain. Someone with a lot of charisma who can easily manipulate people and get them to do whatever they want without resorting to violence. The kind of person who seems sweet in the outside but in the inside they are cold, calculating and unfeeling. Who would rip Thedosian society with no guilt or remorse and would do it at the drop of a hat if they could.
Also, I want a villain who I love to hate. Like, when they meet their demise, I want it to be bittersweet. Their death will be so satisfying but at the same time you don't want to do it because when you do your taking away a worthy rival, who kept the player on their toes and matched them step for step through the game.
I hope that long rant made sense...

[Medhia_Nox]

Bioware should look to the Origins they created for story ideas that would have, in my opinion, been superior to the overarching fantasy garbage we received (and I actually really love DA).  

 

I like Darkspawn actually - the concept of living pollution fascinated me - then they talked and whatever. 

 

- Loghain and Howe, Bhelen's coupe, Jowan's flight, the Denerim nobles and the City elves, the Carta and the casteless.... all of them are the stories I'd actually like to play.  All of them could have been their own complete games (and honestly should have been).

 

Since they were almost all wasted in Origins... Bioware should resurrect most of them (obviously not the exact same stories) for upcoming games when they're done with these sub-par fantasy tales of uber-magic and boorish pseudo-philosophical metaphysics. 

 

Come to think of it... I would totally play "Extended" versions of those stories that focus on just the Warden and a series of events pertaining to those particular Origins.

[Hinjo]

I would like to see a villain who can unmade some decision we made in previous games or in this one. I'm not saying he or she should destroy/retcon everything we've made in past, but rather show us that we really aren't the centre of universe.

I also hope for a villain whose main weapons aren't swords and magic, but his/her silvery tongue and political intrigues. Someone who is more clever than any of those stupid blokes in Winter Palace (that shouldn't be so hard).... basically someone like Bhelen.

[Ghost Gal]

The conservative magisters who resist Dorian's and Maeveris' attempts to reform Tevinter for the better. (The ones who assassinated his father, and other extremists who think like the Venatori, if not the Venatori themselves.) Also the Qunari who've redoubled their efforts to conquer and assimilate Thedas.

 

We already know Fen'Harel and his agents are going to be villains, but I don't want any more elven villains because I don't want elves to be the only villains next game. We all get it; elves deserve slavery, second-class citizenry, poverty and oppression, and any elves who try to change their lot are terrorists and trouble-makers that need to be taken down so the bad elves can be brought to line and the good elves can keep sucking up to their human masters. We just don't need this enforced time and time again by making all the villains are elven and all the good characters magisters and Qunari.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Shiara Lavellan:  I am probably one of the biggest Dalish haters out there... but I've never said the city elves "deserve" anything they've gotten (which is slaver, poverty, second class citizenry and oppression).  

 

My complaint about the City Elves is that they either look backward... or to the Dalish... and I don't admire those traits at all.  

 

I'd like the City Elves to renounce Solas, abandon their victim mentalities and forge a future for themselves in healthier way than screaming, brandishing swords and throwing their lot in with mad schemes.  

[Tidus]

I dunno.. Why not a all new power hungry villain out to enslave  the world with a side quest of a rogue Grey Warden seeking the one that killed his sweetie?

[Reznore57]

I'd like a villain villain.

So far in DA they've been pushing the whole main villain who does bad things because in their mind it's for the greater good.

I have to say it doesn't work for me , because there's so much massacre and chaos I can accept before I have to go "ok this person is nuts.End of the story."

So I'd like a main villain with self awareness who knows he's /she's doing crappy things , and is aware they mostly doing it for their self serving vision.

Bonus point if the villain is mostly chaotic neutral , they can help you if it's good for them , and the next day they turn on you as easily, and they're not making excuses or feeling sorry about it.

Also a villain with a sense of humor , a massive troll.

 

Mostly I'd like something with the Black Divine , because he is supposed to be a man of faith but also super super ruthless.Killing people at parties in front of everyone.Also it's understood after a new Divine is elected , he will go on a murder spree and kill all the potential rivals.

The story of the Black Divine in Asunder was also interesting (not sure if he's the current one) before he was elected his main goal was to get his country free of corruption , blood magic , more power to templars etc...

But once he saw the title of Black Divine was a possibility for him, he turned around , threw his friend under the bus , and changed his politics.

 

 

[Gervaise]

Have to say that I found the current Black Divine an interesting villain because it was a case of power corrupts and he was quite unapologetic about it.    (He is actually the reason I can see why Dorian's greatest fear is temptation).    Still he wasn't obviously evil to the onlooker because he had Lambert fooled for so long.   He just didn't offer any self pitying excuses when found out or tried to justify his actions as being in a noble cause: he'd achieved power and was doing what was necessary to keep it, just like everyone else at the top of the tree in Tevinter.

 

I also rather liked their original villain in Baldurs Gate because he had everyone fooled thinking he was great and our PC was the bad guy (so we were the ones being hunted down), and even managed to have two women simultaneously in love with him and willing to die for him even though they knew about the other one.    That is serious charisma and much more interesting than the straight up, look at me, I'm evil and want to rule the world type of person.  He had a pretty good team of lackeys too that made the final battle with them all a challenging one.   It gives you great satisfaction finally managing to unmask them for the world at large and then being able to kill them. 

 

Unfortunately PW is now lead writer and he has stated that he is far happier writing about conflicted villains than unapologetic bad guys, so I can only hope that someone else on the team is.

[ThePhoenixKing]

I'd like a villain villain.

So far in DA they've been pushing the whole main villain who does bad things because in their mind it's for the greater good.

I have to say it doesn't work for me , because there's so much massacre and chaos I can accept before I have to go "ok this person is nuts.End of the story."

So I'd like a main villain with self awareness who knows he's /she's doing crappy things , and is aware they mostly doing it for their self serving vision.

Bonus point if the villain is mostly chaotic neutral , they can help you if it's good for them , and the next day they turn on you as easily, and they're not making excuses or feeling sorry about it.

Also a villain with a sense of humor , a massive troll.

 

Mostly I'd like something with the Black Divine , because he is supposed to be a man of faith but also super super ruthless.Killing people at parties in front of everyone.Also it's understood after a new Divine is elected , he will go on a murder spree and kill all the potential rivals.

The story of the Black Divine in Asunder was also interesting (not sure if he's the current one) before he was elected his main goal was to get his country free of corruption , blood magic , more power to templars etc...

But once he saw the title of Black Divine was a possibility for him, he turned around , threw his friend under the bus , and changed his politics.

 

That's not a bad idea. If nothing else, it'd make a nice change from the self-indulgent, "Oh, why won't people accept that I didn't want to blow up that orphanage, but I had to for the right reasons!" drivel that too many villains spout these days. Maybe they could have someone like Alarak from Starcraft II: Legacy of the Void, a guy who's worldview is utterly antithetical to that of the heroes, has no desire to change who he is or justify himself to anyone, and is perfectly content to oppose them.

[Ashagar]

Well the people beyond the Sea could show up and go Assyrian, Hunic or Mongolian Empire on Northern Thedas in the name of unrepentedly evil villain out to take over the world for their own personal glory. Bonus points points if they take out the Qunari the great boogy man first just to show how powerful they are.

[Nimlowyn]

I am looking forward to some grey, grey villains with Weekes in charge. Fen'Harel, the Evunaris, Tevinter vs. the Qunari, someone else I can't think of, I'm ready. Though someone who mostly sucks would be welcome too. I would totally kick Viddasala's ashes, eff her.

[Andromelek]

I am looking forward to some grey, grey villains with Weekes in charge. Fen'Harel, the Evunaris, Tevinter vs. the Qunari, someone else I can't think of, I'm ready. Though someone who mostly sucks would be welcome too. I would totally kick Viddasala's ashes, eff her.

With someone that sucks you mean some dude like the one that Sera killed or someone like Grievous (after the destruction of the EU)?

[Lady Artifice]

Rendon Howe. Vaugh. I wish they knew each, I'm sure they'd come up with a horrible plan that ends up with my Cousland killing them. Yeah. Go get me some pigs, will you? I need power hungry Pigs to kill, cause they deserve it!

 

It seems likely that they did know each other. They're both wealthy Ferelden nobles, and in most origins playthroughs (non-city elf), Howe keeps Vaughn in a dungeon after he takes over his family's Castle. Howe knows of him, at least.

 

Thankfully though, they weren't allies. Just imagine the air in a room where those two conversed together. I'm sure it would turn noxious and vile in a matter of minutes.

[Nimlowyn]

With someone that sucks you mean some dude like the one that Sera killed or someone like Grievous (after the destruction of the EU)?

Not all that familiar with Star Wars, but I can tell you that adversaries like Lord Harmond and Viddasala are what I mean. You can see their motivations (or, at least with Harmond, the kind of society that creates a douche like him) but, at least for me, I don't care because I strongly disagree with them and they're assholes.  

[GoldenGail3]

It seems likely that they did know each other. They're both wealthy Ferelden nobles, and in most origins playthroughs (non-city elf), Howe keeps Vaughn in a dungeon after he takes over his family's Castle. Howe knows of him, at least.

 

Thankfully though, they weren't allies. Just imagine the air in a room where those two conversed together. I'm sure it would turn noxious and vile in a matter of minutes.

 

Oh, my.GOSH. IF THEY WERE ALLIES, I'D.... 

[Ardent Blossom]

[snip]

 

Second, make it a villain we can definitively kill. No more metaphysical mumbo-jumbo, no more technobabble solutions, make the villain someone or something we can put a sword into. On a similar note, decisively end their story as well at the end of the game. Bioware's had a real problem with kicking the proverbial can down the line to future installments (ie: The Mage-Templar War, Solas), and for once, it would be nice to have something be resolved effectively without having to buy DLC or a sequel to see how it ends. (See Starcraft II: Legacy of the Void for an example of how to do it right, or at least better).

 

[snip]

 

I am with you on this 100%. Open endedness is one thing, but getting players invested in a plot or character and then never really delivering on a conclusion (like sending the Warden off on a quest to cure the taint when they could have wrapped up that story years ago) is just getting old. In terms of having to buy a DLC to wrap up loose ends...I loved Trespasser, but it really didn't resolve anything. Half of the fans aren't even convinced the Inquisitor's story is over, and poor Ellana Lavellan is still pining over her eggheaded boyfriend in her dreams. Nice wrapping up there BioWare. The original Mass Effect, despite the lurking reaper threat, had a decently buttoned up ending but since then? LIMBO. Let my hero sacrifice herself while permakilling the big baddie or let her permakill the big baddie and live happily ever after, please.

[Asdrubael Vect]

The villian with who i can side if i consider this more good for my hero and others for who he is really care/like, and for who i am not forced to care like when i would rather kill those and have many reasons for this

 

I was support Anders actions agains Orlais Chantry and Templars and my Hawke rather by himself kill them, he even have nobles support to get rid of them, the whole Kirkwall hate them..always hate that we must kill Orsino and that we can kill Meredith but we cant kill Cullen who was do what Meredith do

 

I really hate than we not have option to side or just not stoping Solas, especially if we are elf or dwarf(after dlc about titans and connection with magic) protag...it makes much sence to not

 

And that i must have Celine or Gaspair on throne for no reason(and we know that they will betray us and try to force us to be their puppet what even Treespasser show us) when i would kill them both and after brialla to replace with elven rebellion leaders

 

I am not even talk about Herald of Andraste thing and Chantry support and that i need a divine for them who would rule over me who do all work

[JDALFONSO]

I'd love to see Yavana, Morigan's evil sister, as a potential antagonist, or Sten/ the new Arishok leading a Qunari army against the main protagonist.  Another area they might draw from are the forgotten ones. In the Elven legend surrounding Solas, he was considered both a member of the elven gods and a forgotten race of gods that i believe predate the Old gods who become Arch Demons. So it would be awesome to see him begin his war on Thedas by unveiling a group ridiculously powerful ancient Elven Mages who were once feared by the world.

[Bad King]

The conservative magisters who resist Dorian's and Maeveris' attempts to reform Tevinter for the better. (The ones who assassinated his father, and other extremists who think like the Venatori, if not the Venatori themselves.) Also the Qunari who've redoubled their efforts to conquer and assimilate Thedas.

 

The problem is that this limits roleplaying. If both the Qunari and the Tevinter nationalists are antagonists, then pretty much the only people we'd be able to side with would be the Tevinter moderates. I think it would be great if we were able to side with the more extreme factions if we wanted to, for example, it would be great to roleplay a former elven slave who was brutalised and dehumanised by his/her Tevinter masters and who is now loyal to the Qunari cause as a means of striking back against the oppressors and liberating the rest of the slaves. 

 

Unfortunately, DA:I moved away from giving the ability to the player to control radical characters. The warden in Origins could make some really radical choices throughout the game including committing the Right of Annulment, massacring the werewolves or Dalish, killing Connor to ensure that the demon within him was defeated, abandoning Redcliffe to its fate, making a deal with Caladrius or sacrificing the elves in a blood ritual, preserving an anvil that could turn people into powerful soldiers devoid of free will etc. etc.  Of course, one still (usually) had the choice of selecting more moderate decisions in Origins, but in Inquisition, almost all of the choices made had to be moderate. The most extreme that the Inquisitor could get was arguing for mage freedom and making a deal with Imshael. The Inquisition was (bizarrely) basically an organisation of religious moderates with very little in terms of extreme elements: all of the extremists in the game were lumped together as antagonists.