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Don´t make this game for softies...


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#26
daveliam

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@Commander RPG:

 

Your attempt is weak.  If there was the option to make skinny and muscular characters, then you'd have a point about not being able to make a fat character.  If there was the option to make white, latino, Arabic, etc characters but not African and Asian characters, then you'd have a point. 

 

But we're talking about a feature where there are choices for some and no choices for others.  When that happens, there's nothing wrong with pointing out that you'd also like to have a choice.

 

Don't try to make it more than it is.


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#27
ironfist1191

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Do what you didn't in ME3

 

- Consistent quests and not "get quest/pick up/return"

- Giving the dialogue system a purpose: if it's there to avoid actual dialogue choices, don't insert dialogue at all. Make it a "Yes or No" game like Final Fantasy classics. Where the "No" doesn't count sheesh.

- Depriving it of any multiplayer crap that doesn't have any rpg value anyway

 

But of course you can't follow these advices because you're targetting the brain-damaged people that The Chart spoke of.

 

I agree for almost all your points, except one; as long as the multiplayer is seperated from the story and does not hinder the games development, eventhough its unusual, thats the way to go.



#28
Commander Rpg

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@Commander RPG:

 

Your attempt is weak.

Not as weak as the effort of games that wink at the homosexual community.



#29
KainD

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The only "good thing left" is the result of the pollution of the past good things.

 

But we know it's not coming back.



#30
SwobyJ

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Yeah, you know what you're in for, posting this here. But I agree.

 

-For the light side of things, I want the concepts of exploration and progress to be prominent. But I don't want it to be constantly shiny. While I don't want as much of 'brutal underworld' ME2 or 'constant war' ME3, I do want MEA to, perhaps even (relatively) suddenly, shock players with the truth that exploration and progress does not come without inevitable and disillusioning cost. While ME3 was 'You're going to lose something', I'd like MEA to be 'We're going to have to leave something behind/take something of others'. Expansion and colonization (even if just the start of it), and some of the nasty things that comes with it.

 

-Yes, I'd rather not have it so no matter what, I get to make the heroic speech and people follow me into the darkness. It would actually be so cool if I could have my character start to try to do it, but because of X factors, I get interrupted by competing voices, and I have to take another route (perhaps through personal convo, something behind the scenes) to make things work well enough to move on. A similar concept is when you're forced to resolve the Jack/Tali and Miranda/Legion conflict and you can do it there and look awesome, but if you fail it, you need to meet a character later in order to regain their Loyalty.

Basically, I don't want to know that I'm definitely going to be the kickass hero of all things at all big times. No longer a Commander, a Spectre, a Savior, a Shepard, I'd like a 'Pathfinder' to have relatively more of a 'weaving around' the politics of his..everyone's mission, and not have it as clearcut as the fight against the Reapers and the basic facts of 'If we don't do X, we die from Y." spurring people/factions into action. I wouldn't mind some characters going "Well so what? Who put you in charge and why does my agenda not matter as much?" and I'd like to even be able to agree that maybe their agenda really is better than what I've thought was the way to go.

Basically, lessen the hero worship. It can be a thing but it doesn't necessarily need to be as high as any other Bioware game of the last decade (except maybe DA2). Let my character breathe.

 

-I would not mind scars and more blood. Not a ton more though.

 

-Hell, I want First Contact War x100. Bring on the hate between peoples, and play the role (optional or not, I dunno) of the 'Council' (person) who gets things settled one way or another.

 

-I'm a gay male. I don't want every LI to be bi/story-sexual. While I don't want this all the time, I do value stories that involve or even (rarely) revolve around the character's orientation. I don't think it was done the most tactfully with characters like Sam (ME3) and Dorian (DAI), but as a thing, I sometimes like it, and stuff like that can't happen if every LI option goes for your PC no matter what. I was one of those supporting DAI for this over DA2.

I just want a couple options. Give me those couple options, and especially have both of them compelling, and great, I have my choice and inclusion and I'm happy and if people want more, they can have fun modding it in.

I was sad about KOTOR and JE (I didn't know about Sky until later).

I was annoyed by ME1, ME2, and kinda DAO (Zevran is not appealing..) and DA2 (neither were appealing though that's more of a general complaint).

But I was glad at ME3 and DAI, overall. But I considered them still more flawed than they could be.

So yeah, there's room for improvement in the next ME game, and I don't need everyone to be bi/gay/playersexual, but I DO want options, and I DO want inclusion as long as the creators are up for that. That's all. I'd have went for James but he wasn't an option and there was Kaidan and Steve. Got my options. Semi-compelling. I'm mostly happy.

EDIT: While I get the 'this isn't the real world so why care about realism' argument, I still don't enjoy the sense that I turn a corner and see homosexuality. Not homophobia, internal or external, but more an appreciation for statistics, where even if we stretch them, the very most homosexuals one will have in most settings is 1/4ish, if that. Imagine that there's a ship with even 8 LI paths, 4 of them male. I'd.. not raise a storm at it, but I'd laugh my ass off if all 4 of those males flirted with me/I can flirt with them to positive reception and reciprocation. I can take 1 and I'd appreciate 2 for the sake of having choice, but I don't really need more, that's all.


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#31
daveliam

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How did Kaidan force it on you in the lunch?  Seriously, I just watched three different YouTube videos of the scene to see what you are talking about and I didn't see anything at all that was "forced". 

 

ETA:  @ Commander RPG - I'll accept that even weaker reply as your concession to my points given that you failed to even mention them and resorted to a throwaway hyperbolic response instead. 


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#32
ironfist1191

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Okay maybe I should formulate myself better:

I have nothing against people who have a different sexuality, in both real life and in-game but as long as they keep it more private ingame instead of constantly reminding you of it ALL THE TIME, i´m fine with it, if I asked something regarding this, of course no worries.



#33
Battlebloodmage

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Not as weak as the effort of games that wink at the homosexual community.

Bioware senpai noticed me.


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#34
Commander Rpg

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Bioware senpai noticed me.

They also have noticed your wallet.


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#35
ironfist1191

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Yeah, you know what you're in for, posting this here. But I agree.

 

-For the light side of things, I want the concepts of exploration and progress to be prominent. But I don't want it to be constantly shiny. While I don't want as much of 'brutal underworld' ME2 or 'constant war' ME3, I do want MEA to, perhaps even (relatively) suddenly, shock players with the truth that exploration and progress does not come without inevitable and disillusioning cost. While ME3 was 'You're going to lose something', I'd like MEA to be 'We're going to have to leave something behind/take something of others'. Expansion and colonization (even if just the start of it), and some of the nasty things that comes with it.

 

-Yes, I'd rather not have it so no matter what, I get to make the heroic speech and people follow me into the darkness. It would actually be so cool if I could have my character start to try to do it, but because of X factors, I get interrupted by competing voices, and I have to take another route (perhaps through personal convo, something behind the scenes) to make things work well enough to move on. A similar concept is when you're forced to resolve the Jack/Tali and Miranda/Legion conflict and you can do it there and look awesome, but if you fail it, you need to meet a character later in order to regain their Loyalty.

Basically, I don't want to know that I'm definitely going to be the kickass hero of all things at all big times. No longer a Commander, a Spectre, a Savior, a Shepard, I'd like a 'Pathfinder' to have relatively more of a 'weaving around' the politics of his..everyone's mission, and not have it as clearcut as the fight against the Reapers and the basic facts of 'If we don't do X, we die from Y." spurring people/factions into action. I wouldn't mind some characters going "Well so what? Who put you in charge and why does my agenda not matter as much?" and I'd like to even be able to agree that maybe their agenda really is better than what I've thought was the way to go.

Basically, lessen the hero worship. It can be a thing but it doesn't necessarily need to be as high as any other Bioware game of the last decade (except maybe DA2). Let my character breathe.

 

-I would not mind scars and more blood. Not a ton more though.

 

-Hell, I want First Contact War x100. Bring on the hate between peoples, and play the role (optional or not, I dunno) of the 'Council' (person) who gets things settled one way or another.

 

-I'm a gay male. I don't want every LI to be bi/story-sexual. While I don't want this all the time, I do value stories that involve or even (rarely) revolve around the character's orientation. I don't think it was done the most tactfully with characters like Sam (ME3) and Dorian (DAI), but as a thing, I sometimes like it, and stuff like that can't happen if every LI option goes for your PC no matter what. I was one of those supporting DAI for this over DA2.

I just want a couple options. Give me those couple options, and especially have both of them compelling, and great, I have my choice and inclusion and I'm happy and if people want more, they can have fun modding it in.

I was sad about KOTOR and JE (I didn't know about Sky until later).

I was annoyed by ME1, ME2, and kinda DAO (Zevran is not appealing..) and DA2 (neither were appealing though that's more of a general complaint).

But I was glad at ME3 and DAI, overall. But I considered them still more flawed than they could be.

So yeah, there's room for improvement in the next ME game, and I don't need everyone to be bi/gay/playersexual, but I DO want options, and I DO want inclusion as long as the creators are up for that. That's all. I'd have went for James but he wasn't an option and there was Kaidan and Steve. Got my options. Semi-compelling. I'm mostly happy.

Yeah, here is a really good point, instead of increasing the amount of characters and forwarding their sexuality, maybe they can try to make every character as interesting as possible? for both sexualities?

 

*edit* wouldnt it be cool if your character was a scientist or an engineer? maybe you could be given a choice rather than being appointed commander?



#36
KainD

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Okay maybe I should formulate myself better:

I have nothing against people who have a different sexuality, in both real life and in-game but as long as they keep it more private ingame instead of constantly reminding you of it ALL THE TIME, i´m fine with it, if I asked something regarding this, of course no worries.

 

I'm sure you keep your sexuality private all the time. 


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#37
SwobyJ

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Me3- citadel, lunch with Kaidan, very forced.

 

Me3- Shuttle pilot, don´t get me wrong but he was a really cool guy, but trying to help felt...weird...

 

Me2- Kelly, really open about it

 

a few examples from the top of my head.

 

Cortez was weird for me too and I like guys and I'm open about that.

 

Had a 'straight trying to write gay' feel to it..I dunno.

 

Kelly was just silly and I don't give it a second thought after "Why Bioware why"

 

Kaidan was a lil clunky but okay overall for what it was. I'd have handled it a bit differently.

 

Cortez is cool with me AFTER his initial few scenes, sadly. And I outright enjoyed him in Leviathan and Citadel, LI content included (I didn't do it but I watched it online).



#38
daveliam

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Look, ironfist, I totally agree with your other points, but you are really barking up the wrong tree in the wrong place with your other comments.  Simply acknowledging your sexuality is not forcing it on anyone.  Literally not a single character has brought up their sexuality "all the time".  You aren't comfortable with it.  Okay, fine.  But understand that it's not the stance that Bioware takes and that you are going to have to expect to encounter characters who aren't straight and it will be mentioned in the game.  It's something that the company supports and it's not going anywhere anytime soon. 

 

To be honest, you're much better off just sticking to the other points because those are definitely going to get a better response and also be much less likely to bring in the mods.

 

On that note, in Fallout 4, I really like that the three factions are all flawed in major ways and the game forces you to side with one of them to complete the main questline.  It's much more satisfying to really think about my choices and consequences and try to pick the 'least evil' of the group.  It also gives me some really interesting ideas for new PCs to play as in order to side with the others as well.  I'd like to see something like this in ME: A.


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#39
ironfist1191

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Cortez was weird for me too and I like guys and I'm open about that.

 

Had a 'straight trying to write gay' feel to it..I dunno.

 

Kelly was just silly and I don't give it a second thought after "Why Bioware why"

 

Kaidan was a lil clunky but okay overall for what it was. I'd have handled it a bit differently.

 

Cortez is cool with me AFTER his initial few scenes, sadly. And I outright enjoyed him in Leviathan and Citadel, LI content included (I didn't do it but I watched it online).

 

Perscisely, nvm I found Kaidan good as a character, and I really do not have much against him, but the romance part just felt..weird in a way you know? 



#40
United Servo Academy Choir

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*edit* wouldnt it be cool if your character was a scientist or an engineer? maybe you could be given a choice rather than being appointed commander?

 

See, now this is a great idea.

 

Not being forced into a military role in the next ME is an enduring dream of mine.


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#41
SwobyJ

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Groups don't have to adhere perfectly to real world, modern demographics. You can have groups in real life that are radically imbalanced, like one all male or all female group. I don't think 5/12 major Inquisition characters being nonheterosexual strains the suspension of disbelief too much.

 

Its not.

 

But it is a little.

 

Like its a little weird.

 

I mean yeah.

 

Kinda weird.



#42
ironfist1191

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Yeah you know what guys/gals? lets just drop the sex thingie alright? sorry if I made any feel offended in any way... I will delete that part of the post so we can stick to a the other discussion.



#43
Vortex13

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I don't want ME:A to be made for "softies" either. 

 

Mass Effect has by and large, been depicted just like all the other science fiction settings out there. A place where everything conforms to our human standards, where every alien species we meet is just a human in a rubber suit, a place were social topics, and daddy issues reign supreme.

 

I want to see the "hard" science fiction. I don't care about who this person is attracted to to or how this person wasn't hugged enough as a child, I want to go explore that accretion disk surrounding that black hole, or go and try to establish contact with an alien species that operates on a subconscious level, etc. 

 

If there's any element to the Mass Effect franchise that has been overlooked its the 'alien' ones.


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#44
daveliam

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I disagree Swobyj.  You've never been in a group of friends and have about 40% of them (or more) be gay?  Hell, at my job, which is not related to my sexuality at all, there are 10 men and 4 of us are gay.  Sometimes it happens and it's not weird at all.


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#45
X Equestris

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See, now this is a great idea.
 
Not being forced into a military role in the next ME is an enduring dream of mine.


It'd be nice, though with the way Bioware tends to right their plots I won't hold my breath.

#46
SwobyJ

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Okay maybe I should formulate myself better:

I have nothing against people who have a different sexuality, in both real life and in-game but as long as they keep it more private ingame instead of constantly reminding you of it ALL THE TIME, i´m fine with it, if I asked something regarding this, of course no worries.

 

For Kaidan I don't think he constantly reminds you all the time. In fact, I'm pretty sure he 'almost never' lets you know it in ME3.

 

Steve was crying over his exhusband and that was weird (Collectors? Now? I need us to get to work. Stop it. Reapers are killing billions. I love my partner too but...Reapers. Wake up.) but after that the only thing I recall is if you're friends, go to the club, and he makes a pass.

 

TBH if you're friends with me and you're attractive I just might make a flirt. Your fragile sensibilities will have to take it.


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#47
SwobyJ

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They also have noticed your wallet.

 

Damn right I want that gay romance if they want my preorder.


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#48
ironfist1191

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Oh boy...Imagine being a human N7 Mordin... oh god missin this game already...



#49
SwobyJ

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I disagree Swobyj.  You've never been in a group of friends and have about 40% of them (or more) be gay?  Hell, at my job, which is not related to my sexuality at all, there are 10 men and 4 of us are gay.  Sometimes it happens and it's not weird at all.

 

I've been in a large group of friends and they're 100% gay.

 

But for sake of inclusion and equality, I'd rather not have 100% gay in a NPC group of companions, some of which romancable.

 

I like a sense of proportionality, in a very general sense.

 

Keep in mind that I'm not complaining about DAI. But I would consider its proportions a slight bit off.

 

Reducing it by 1-2 would be more fair to heterosexual oriented gamers.

 

Good thing I'm not super concerned about heterosexual oriented gamers getting everything they want at all times though.



#50
SwobyJ

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It'd be nice, though with the way Bioware tends to right their plots I won't hold my breath.

 

I like to hope MEA is a test of prominent aspects of non-military.

 

And stuff like ME3's DLCs were interesting in that any military role of Shepard was more of a backdrop, not a focus.

 

So I see a direction, I just... think Bioware, if they're taking that direction, is going REALLLYYYYY SLOWWWW with it.

 

In another sense, I see DAI moving away from being a fighter-identity.

 

Its hard for these games to do this sort of thing because the big bucks is in stuff with lots of fighting and armies and hoo rah and COD and GOW and Halo and KILL ALIENS.


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