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Don´t make this game for softies...


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#576
Hanako Ikezawa

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Anyway lets now go with part two of "Disney does always hold your hands in end!". Because it does! No matter how dark themed story or morbid it is in end it will always hold "hero's" hand regardless of dumb choices protagonists should have payed for(take Ariel as best example). So no matter how once again dark story was in end it always gets same, good guy wins, bad guy loses, good guy lives "happily ever after" bad guy gets short stick of end or in more extreme cases dies....even though let's take Ariel once more as example when you are stupid enough to sign some contract with someone you know is evil you are supposed to suffer penalty for it, not get away with being stupid.

Old Yeller would like to have a word with you. That was made by Disney, and considered one of their all-time best films, and that had little to no singing and definitely didn't have a 'they lived happily ever after' ending.



#577
Daemul

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All I know about Frozen is that it would've been better had this been the plot.

 

Spoiler

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#578
FKA_Servo

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snip

 

It's a very funny comic called Oglaf that you really, really should not look up at work.



#579
SentinelMacDeath

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Oglaf oh my!  :whistle:



#580
Shechinah

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Frozen was popular because Disney didn't have a musical type of movie in a while. The plot was bad but it doesn't matter much to kids since they don't dissect it. 

 

I'll be honest and say that I thought Frozen could have been better including in how they handles some of the things I liked that they tried and it did not amaze me like it did others but I did like some of the things they tried to do like playing with the trope in regards to true love and acknowledging familial love.
 



#581
Shechinah

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...

 

Preface: I know you are uninterested in discussing topic further but since you did continue it by posting this and I remain in disagreement, I'll adress some of your points. This is purely to adress your points and by no means, do I intend for it to be taken to mean that I feel you should feel obligated to return and discuss it.

 

As advice; while you may have not intended to make it about Disney, you did use Disney as a definition by referring to it as the "Disney treatment" and listed what you consider that to exclude such as dark themes, story and consequences. I considered this to be a flawed comparison therefore I disagreed with it and questioned it. I'd have disagreed and questioned it the same if you'd use a different comparison that had nothing to do with Disney but that I considered flawed.

 

It may have been better if you'd not mention Disney at all and had simply listed the things you thought should be there such as dark themes, story, consequences and endings that are not necessarily happy and that you'd prefer either no songs or songs that were skippable.

 

The Big Point

 

While I do believe there are Disney movies where a happy ending as you define it does not occur, I'll have to dig a bit to see if I can find it them because I do not remember them. There do tend to be a happy ending in many Disney films but I consider it to be more important how such an ending comes about it merely existing. If the characters who has it it has earned it rather than simply recieved then I tend to be fine with it. Similarly, if the plot occurs as a result of the actions of the characters and sensible consequences of their actions then I tend to be fine with it as well.  

 

I disagree that in Disney films, the protagonists do not suffer the consequences of their actions;

 

An example from the "Hunchback of Notre Dame"; While Quasimodo and Phoebus had good intentions, they did unwittingly lead Judge Frollo and his men to Court of Miracles which resulted in Esmeralda nearly being burned alive at the stake where she would likely have been followed by some of the other captured gypsies. There was a consequence for well-meaning action that left everyone they intended to help in an even worse situation. 

 

An earlier example in the film could be that Esmeralda's open defiance and mocking of Judge Frollo led to him increasing his persecution of not only her people but almost all citizens of Paris. The film shows how his hunt for her nearly let to the death of an innocent family whose only crime was possibly sheltering gypsies whereas in the prologue, he merely arrested gypsies for later trial which, granted, would likely be a mock trial. His killing of Quasimodo's mother seemed to be spurned by anger and not entirely intentional. That is not to say he cared or had any regrets, of course, he was clearly unbothered by her death and the possibly death of her infant son until either posed a personal danger.  

 

Yes, the protagonists in the film did win to supposedly live happily and the villan did not only lose but also perish but they earned their happy victory and it came about through the consequences and actions of the characters, villains and heroes.... with the exception of Frollo's death since that is either Divine intervention or an accident that Frollo percieved as demonic because of his slipping sanity but by this point, he'd have lost regardless of that since the mob seemed to overtaken his forces by then.

 

Phoebus's action of being is able to rally the Parisians into allying with the gypsies and rioting because of Frollo's actions; "Citizens of Paris! Frollo has persecuted our people, ransacked our city and now he has declared war against Notre Dame herself, will we allow it?" The Parisian citizens do not follow Phoebus because he has the status of protagonist and hero, they follow him because of what Frollo has done which Phoebus uses to motivate them into outright agression against a authoritarian figure not only law but religion.  



#582
KaiserShep

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All I know about Frozen is that it would've been better had this been the plot.

 

Spoiler

 

Oh Oglaf, you sexy funny beast of a comic. 



#583
ironfist1191

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So you ARE a homophobe I see.

 

Sorry but I am fine with people being gay just so long as they keep it private is you being a bigot. People express their sexuality ALL the fraking time, by commenting on who they find attractive talking about romantic troubles or commenting on their spouses or romantic partners. The DIFFERENCE is you find it perfectly acceptable when it is heterosexual but if it is homosexual it is 'being force' upon you.

 

Grow a pair and man up. There isn't a SINGLE Bioware character in all of their games that forces their sexuality upon the player. Your insecurity about your own sexuality doesn't in fact make Bioware's fictional characters force their sexuality upon anyone. Be it Anders so called aggressive come on to Kaiden having lunch with you. The 'gay' penis isn't as powerful as you fear, it can't actually make you gay because it is eluded to in your video games. I don't understand why so many of my fellow straight gamers feel so threaten by pixel 'gayness.' Frankly YOUR insecurities should in no way prohibit other gamers from enjoying aspects of the game. If a Quaker came on the boards and complained that Bioware games should not include violence, I'd feel the same way, their insecurities about fake violence should in no way inhibit other players from enjoying this aspect of a game. MAN UP.

 

And to the idiots that cage Bioware for not being bold to include gay characters, this is just horseshit, sure it isn't brave or bold NOW to include LGBT characters in a game but Bioware was the FIRST AAA RPG studio to do so and when they did so it was brave because NO one was doing it.

Oh my! The great lord Gothfather! He has returned to prove his almighty gift of seeing through me by the web and knowing more about my sexuality than myself! How is this possible? will you share your secret?

 

So sir Psycological, lets try your logic out shall we?

A single character that doesn´t force a romance upon the player? Liara and Kaidan in me3 presidium? 

Once again i have nothing against having any kind of unique sexual prference for each char. in the game, but now lets try to look this from a another more developed perspective, instead of your jumping-to-the-rascism-homophobic-sjw logic.

 

First off, this is a military ship, alright? Not sure that romances in general are looked up upon, and preferably kept away, as this can create feelings which may cause trouble, and eventually jeopordize teamwork and missions.

My point? Try to be more closed off from all sexual feelings to your character, or at least make it an option, as you are the commander/captain/admiral whatever, and you should decide how to run the ship.

I´m not critizing the inclusion of homosexual, bisexual romances or heterosexual too, but rather it being more discreet, than the really open nature about it in the past games, of course your choies maybe during the intro and the later part of game gives you once again the option to change this to a more open speech, like in the Normandy.

 

This can also open several different RP scenarios, such as a commander being a hardass and following strict protocol, or one that is more loose with his crew, and gives them more freedom. (Maybe more loyalty, but less efficiency in return-game-mechanic?)

 

I am NOT against any form of sexuality, I really don´t give a damn what their preferences are, all i proposed, was to create a more choice driven enviroment for the characters around you and the ship.

 

If you want to ask more, please do, and don´t run around throwing accusations such as homophobia around, they are serious, and if you want to have that talk, please be more open minded and let me explain the points more in depth.



#584
straykat

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I'll try to help and say Cortez can still be appreciated as just as continuation of things you saw in ME2. That's how I see both Sam and Cortez. "Fight for the Lost". I can empathize because they're additional colonist stories. Has nothing to do with sexuality.

 

Without the writers giving much of a damn about ME2 squadmates, this is the best I got :D


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#585
AlanC9

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A single character that doesn´t force a romance upon the player? Liara and Kaidan in me3 presidium? 


Huh? Nothing's forced on anyone in those scenes.

As for the rest, they're good ideas, but I'm not sure they'd pass an ROI test. Done right you'd burn an awful lot of wordcount.
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#586
ironfist1191

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Huh? Nothing's forced on anyone in those scenes.

As for the rest, they're good ideas, but I'm not sure they'd pass an ROI test. Done right you'd burn an awful lot of wordcount.

 

By this scene its either a yes or no answer, to their request, no matter how you have treated them, before, a romance or not a romance, nothing inbetween.

 

nonetheless a stupid thing to really argue about, but still they should consider another approach I believe.

(I did enjoy, those scenes, but the last part of them just threw me off.)



#587
Lady Artifice

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By this scene its either a yes or no answer, to their request, no matter how you have treated them, before, a romance or not a romance, nothing inbetween.
 
nonetheless a stupid thing to really argue about, but still they should consider another approach I believe.
(I did enjoy, those scenes, but the last part of them just threw me off.)


What additional option, other than yes or no, would you like to see?

#588
General TSAR

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But seriously Diversity brings in more gamers, more gamers means more money, more money grows the industry. A larger industry means more companies and projects making games. More games means I have greater selection and a greater chance of innovations improving the games I buy in the future. Diversity makes my gaming experience better in the long run.

More like good/interesting writing and/or gameplay bring in more gamers than some arbitrary quota. 


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#589
prosthetic soul

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Please Bioware, don't cater to others, cater to me instead.

/thread

The fact that such a gargantuan strawman post got this many likes (against a well thought out, nicely put thread to boot) is just....staggering.  And soul crushing.  Mein gott people are so quick to place judgement. 

 

Any who, I agree with the thread creator 100%.  The problem with recent Bioware games of late is that they deal in many choices but almost always leave the consequences to sequels or make them have no impact whatsoever (Dragon Age Inquisition and Mass Effect 3 respectively  *cough*)  At other times, there should clearly be choices where there are none.  Liara comes up to Shepard when he's about to land on the Asari home planet and demands to come with him.  *****, I am the captain of this ship, I decide who comes with me or not.  Don't like it?  GET THE HELL OFF MY SHIP.  Would have been a perfect opportunity for some tension there between Liara and Shepard.  Would have also been a good opportunity for a tough decision like the TC mentioned.

 

Maybe it would lead to some discomfort or hostility later down the line between the two characters. But nope.  You're railroaded into taking her along because Bioware keeps forgetting this is half an RPG.  

 

And for the love of God, that I think about it there were no tough choices in Mass Effect 3.  Why in the hell did they cut out the decision to save either Liara or the love interest on Thessia?  That would have been quintessentially a tough decision.   Bioware drops the ball for the umpteenth time by making the WRONG CHOICE.  Don't even get me started on the ending.  Such a hard decision.  How should I commit suicide?  Hmm.....

 

While I'm not so sure about the scar thing (because that would probably not be very plausible to implement) every thing else the TC mentioned is spot on.  The world shouldn't be some utopia where everyone is accepted regardless of race, species, or home planet.  That's not treating your own work seriously.  If video games want to be taken seriously as real life or movies, they need to deal with the same problems as real life and/or movies. 



#590
Puddi III

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The fact that a gargantuan strawman post got this many likes (against a well thought out, nicely put thread to boot) is just....staggering.  And soul crushing.  Mein gott people are so quick to place judgement. 

 

I think that was mainly a response to the part of the OP's post that he deleted about the icky gays.


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#591
AlanC9

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By this scene its either a yes or no answer, to their request, no matter how you have treated them, before, a romance or not a romance, nothing inbetween.
 


What sort of in-between option could there be? I can't see Bio adding, say, a friends-with-benefits option.
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#592
Master Warder Z_

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Frozen was popular because Disney didn't have a musical type of movie in a while. The plot was bad but it doesn't matter much to kids since they don't dissect it. 

 



#593
AlanC9

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.  The problem with recent Bioware games of late is that they deal in many choices but almost always leave the consequences to sequels or make them have no impact whatsoever


Only recent games?
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#594
Iakus

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Only recent games?

I'd say since 2007...



#595
Master Warder Z_

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I'd say since 2007...

 

Throne of Bhaal



#596
Iakus

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Throne of Bhaal

True.  But they never advertised that our choices would matter across games then. 



#597
ironfist1191

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What additional option, other than yes or no, would you like to see?


Changing the subject? Maybe going a more middleroaded? Need time to think answer?
(For both Liara and Kaidan)

#598
Nattfare

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Idk what country you are talking about but the one I visited in Japan which is Tokyo before 4 years ago had almost their bouncers to throw my a** out when i started to do my "karaoke" instead of supposed icecream lol

 
You didn't look like this by any chance?
 
xzrvj6erem8a.jpg
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#599
ironfist1191

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I think that was mainly a response to the part of the OP's post that he deleted about the icky gays.


I once again tried to explain this further, in this page I have a response to talk about that subject more, as some people would continue wanting to talk about it, read that one.
And maybe it would help him if he actually tried to give some arguements for his opinion than just saying a strawman then going away.

#600
AlanC9

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I once again tried to explain this further, in this page I have a response to talk about that subject more, as some people would continue wanting to talk about it, read that one.


We did. It didn't make much sense.

Incidentally, since you're posting again about how you're not going to post anymore about the topic, aren't you actually still posting about the topic?