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[Chealec]

In a bid for broader inclusivity Bioware today announced that MEA will only be made available for those suffering from priapism.

 

Gives you somewhere to prop the controller up I suppose ...

[In Exile]

I agree with the op. They should make it as uncomfortable as possible.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Invincible is a phenomenal comic.

... That is all.

[Ahglock]

Side note for the evolution debate. With our intelligence we are developing some serious genetic engineering science. In a few generations we may be using it on a mass scale. We very well may begin to evolve at a pace faster than ever seen in earth history by mad science tampering shoving a rocket on to the back of our evolutionary path.

[Getorex]

Their mamby-pamby PC-ness in action: romance scenes done silly in ME2 and then ME3.  Showers or baths taken in underwear to avoid offending those who hate being human.  Love scenes in underwear.  

 

ME1 did it perfectly, if you want to be PG.  You CLEARLY could tell Shepard and LI was getting naked the way REAL people do it but it was "artfully" disclosed.  ME3 they have, for instance, Ashley in her bra and panties the entire time, even waking in the morning in bra and panties (tell me ladies, how many of you are eager to sleep an entire night in your bra?). I fixed all this in my ME3 mods by making showers and baths take place nude, like in real life (Traynor).   Ashley is topless (I could have gone full nude but I really wasn't trying to make a porno here, just correct silly like wearing underwear the entire time like 2 13-year-olds trying to get as close to "doinng the deed" without actually going there).  In the morning you can see no bra so you can THINK she's naked under the covers, the way she really would be, same as Shepard. 

 

So, if you are going to show romance scenes, make them as if they are ADULTS acting with each other, not Disney Channel cartoons.  If you want to avoid full-frontal nudity, then do it artfully: a flash of bare back here, a butt cheek there, bare legs here, etc.  It really isn't hard.

 

Please no 3 or 4 fairly silly conversations and, viola! You've bagged your babe!  And don't plant land-mines either.  I shied away from Cortez conversations because it seemed like it would way too easily go where I did not want it going (taking the meaning of other previous posts).  I got to just writing Cortez off by barely interacting at all and letting him die on Earth (mainly, if I'm on a path to romance a particular character, I don't want to accidentally derail it because my guy tries a convo choice only to find out that, oops, that was flirting and it has torpedoed the romance of character A and made it maybe go to focus on character B instead).  In ME1 after a few playthroughs I had to start skipping convos with Liara (or Ash) so I wouldn't necessarily cause the blow-up confrontation where you have to choose one or the other.  The first few times that was cute but I shied away from convos later to avoid it.  I'd rather not have to.  Don't want 3 or 4 convos that may seem fairly innocuous or shallow on face value only to find that I've started a romance thread by it.  Make it a little more drawn out and THEN make the final step obvious (kinda like real-life - I haven't accidently gotten many women thinking I'm romancing them just because I was in friendly convo with them a few times.  Unless the person's a psycho).

[capn233]

Please Bioware, don't cater to others, cater to me instead.

/thread

 

You really capture the zeitgeist of most of the story subforums in one succinct post.

[Getorex]

Side note for the evolution debate. With our intelligence we are developing some serious genetic engineering science. In a few generations we may be using it on a mass scale. We very well may begin to evolve at a pace faster than ever seen in earth history by mad science tampering shoving a rocket on to the back of our evolutionary path.

 

Check out Neal Asher "Polity" novel series.  Humans using genetic engineering, AI, augs (think somewhat like Deus Ex Human Revolution) to alter themselves.  Humans with all kinds of body types, some purely cosmetic alterations, others genetically adapted for function: low-g, high-g, water, toxic atmosphere.  Some memplanted so if they die, their last mind upload can be downloaded into a Golem (robot body) or even into a newly grown human body and they can continue sans anything that they experienced since the last upload.  AI's aren't the bad guys either, they are the chosen or preferred rulers/governors because they lack greed, self-inflation, have the mental size and depth to be able to track and deal with way more than humans can, leaving humans to live and do.  

[Ahglock]

^ sounds like a cool concept. Thanks for the tip, I'm adding it to my reading list.

Edit to add On the RPG side some of that sounds like eclipse phase. Pretty decent table top RPG. Rules are a bit shaky but it's a cool setting.

[AlanC9]

ME3 they have, for instance, Ashley in her bra and panties the entire time, even waking in the morning in bra and panties (tell me ladies, how many of you are eager to sleep an entire night in your bra?). I fixed all this in my ME3 mods by making showers and baths take place nude, like in real life (Traynor).   Ashley is topless (I could have gone full nude but I really wasn't trying to make a porno here, just correct silly like wearing underwear the entire time like 2 13-year-olds trying to get as close to "doinng the deed" without actually going there).  In the morning you can see no bra so you can THINK she's naked under the covers, the way she really would be, same as Shepard. 

I sometimes wonder if maybe they thought they were going to get approval to use nudity in ME3 the way they did in DA:I, but the idea got shot down too late in development to do anything but reskin with underwear.

[Hiemoth]

Their mamby-pamby PC-ness in action: romance scenes done silly in ME2 and then ME3.  Showers or baths taken in underwear to avoid offending those who hate being human.  Love scenes in underwear.  

 

ME1 did it perfectly, if you want to be PG.  You CLEARLY could tell Shepard and LI was getting naked the way REAL people do it but it was "artfully" disclosed.  ME3 they have, for instance, Ashley in her bra and panties the entire time, even waking in the morning in bra and panties (tell me ladies, how many of you are eager to sleep an entire night in your bra?). I fixed all this in my ME3 mods by making showers and baths take place nude, like in real life (Traynor).   Ashley is topless (I could have gone full nude but I really wasn't trying to make a porno here, just correct silly like wearing underwear the entire time like 2 13-year-olds trying to get as close to "doinng the deed" without actually going there).  In the morning you can see no bra so you can THINK she's naked under the covers, the way she really would be, same as Shepard. 

 

So, if you are going to show romance scenes, make them as if they are ADULTS acting with each other, not Disney Channel cartoons.  If you want to avoid full-frontal nudity, then do it artfully: a flash of bare back here, a butt cheek there, bare legs here, etc.  It really isn't hard.

 

Please no 3 or 4 fairly silly conversations and, viola! You've bagged your babe!  And don't plant land-mines either.  I shied away from Cortez conversations because it seemed like it would way too easily go where I did not want it going (taking the meaning of other previous posts).  I got to just writing Cortez off by barely interacting at all and letting him die on Earth (mainly, if I'm on a path to romance a particular character, I don't want to accidentally derail it because my guy tries a convo choice only to find out that, oops, that was flirting and it has torpedoed the romance of character A and made it maybe go to focus on character B instead).  In ME1 after a few playthroughs I had to start skipping convos with Liara (or Ash) so I wouldn't necessarily cause the blow-up confrontation where you have to choose one or the other.  The first few times that was cute but I shied away from convos later to avoid it.  I'd rather not have to.  Don't want 3 or 4 convos that may seem fairly innocuous or shallow on face value only to find that I've started a romance thread by it.  Make it a little more drawn out and THEN make the final step obvious (kinda like real-life - I haven't accidently gotten many women thinking I'm romancing them just because I was in friendly convo with them a few times.  Unless the person's a psycho).

 

While I agree the shower scene with Traynor was... odd and agree that there were some scenes where it seemed they had written it with a different thought in mind than was executed, I am also always curious that the romance scenes need to have people being naked. Especially in ME2, there really wasn't any questions about what was happening with the sex scenes with Miranda or Jack, to name a few scenes even without the nudity, So how exactly adding nudity for those extra boobies improved the maturity of the scene?

 

And I just want to check that I get the last paragraph right? Did the poster really kill off Cortez because the thought of a gay man hitting on Shepard weirded him out so much? Especially because isn't the Cortez interaction basically one scene where he can really easily be turned down? And isn't avoiding the Liara/Ash romance conflict really simple to avoid in dialogue? And even then, I don't know if I would call the scene that follows a blow-up?

[Getorex]

The adding nudity was done of necessity.  I couldn't change the way the animations of the shower scene (or bathtub scene) for Traynor played out so I had to make do with what was there - and it called for nudity to eliminate the absurdity of showering or bathing in underwear.  As for Ashley, similar deal. Adults don't rub job the way young teens might. A woman certainly isn't going to wear her bra throughout the act and sleep in it and wake up wearing it.  I had to work with what was provided.  

 

If I could have CHANGED the animations, I still would have used nude textures but you wouldn't have seen anything but bare backs, maybe a butt, legs...that sort of thing.  Like on normal modern TV.

 

So far, haven't found any way to alter animations or there are plenty more I'd change (the way the female characters walk in their "sexy skirts" in the casino on the Citadel (like dudes instead of like women).  I'd change the way femshep walks and runs to be like a woman rather than just a guy with female skin on him.  I'd go on to change other things that are less head-shaking and just something I'd like to see differently (make Tali turn towards Shepard and smile after she removes her mask on Rannoch, a quick turn and smile, before Shepard steps up to stand next to her. Goes with the full face mod I made for Tali too). 

 

As for Miranda and ME2, it was silly to do her in the engine room. Both Shepard and Miranda had perfectly good, comfortable rooms with perfectly fine beds in them.  Why go for metal grate floor and metal railings leaving marks in your butt and back?  Why where you are likely to be walked in on?  I'd definitely change that.

[Getorex]

While I agree the shower scene with Traynor was... odd and agree that there were some scenes where it seemed they had written it with a different thought in mind than was executed, I am also always curious that the romance scenes need to have people being naked. Especially in ME2, there really wasn't any questions about what was happening with the sex scenes with Miranda or Jack, to name a few scenes even without the nudity, So how exactly adding nudity for those extra boobies improved the maturity of the scene?

 

And I just want to check that I get the last paragraph right? Did the poster really kill off Cortez because the thought of a gay man hitting on Shepard weirded him out so much? Especially because isn't the Cortez interaction basically one scene where he can really easily be turned down? And isn't avoiding the Liara/Ash romance conflict really simple to avoid in dialogue? And even then, I don't know if I would call the scene that follows a blow-up?

 

The GAME killed off Cortez because after the first couple times I got tired of that convo AND I was always wondering if an opaque and SEEMINGLY benign conversation choice to try something different would cause some gay romance thread to start and ruin or throw off the real one.  So, ignore him after that. It doesn't add points to the final readiness/military strength so it's no loss (plus the horrible, "CORTEEEEZ!"  "I'm OK"  "You sure?" when he crashes on earth). Ugh.  

[Fredward]

And I just want to check that I get the last paragraph right? Did the poster really kill off Cortez because the thought of a gay man hitting on Shepard weirded him out so much? Especially because isn't the Cortez interaction basically one scene where he can really easily be turned down? And isn't avoiding the Liara/Ash romance conflict really simple to avoid in dialogue? And even then, I don't know if I would call the scene that follows a blow-up?

 

The GAME killed off Cortez because after the first couple times I got tired of that convo AND I was always wondering if an opaque and SEEMINGLY benign conversation choice to try something different would cause some gay romance thread to start and ruin or throw off the real one.  So, ignore him after that. It doesn't add points to the final readiness/military strength so it's no loss (plus the horrible, "CORTEEEEZ!"  "I'm OK"  "You sure?" when he crashes on earth). Ugh.  

 

So basically, yes.

[Getorex]

First, who cares? No one has to give a crap.  Second, it was about the fairly crude and hamfisted convos that in just a few friendly exchanges means you have a romance thread.  Doesn't have to be that way.  In RL it is NEVER ambiguous if I'm interested in someone and if it's that way for you you're doing it wrong.  They know it because I tell them.  It is ridiculous that just by selecting/electing to be friendly you are on the ramp to a romance with character x.  THAT was my point.  Make it a little more drawn out and then make it simple and clear that your character is directly interested in the target "romantically", rather than 1) you were nice in convo 1, 2) nice in convo 2, 3) nice in convo 3 now character x is making eyes at you and then next convo indicates you are a "thing".  

 

No. And I don't want to have to tell peeps to back off just because I was "nice" to them.  There's no ambiguity in going for someone so no need to hide it in clumsy convo choices.  

[Fredward]

First, who cares? No one has to give a crap.  Second, it was about the fairly crude and hamfisted convos that in just a few friendly exchanges means you have a romance thread.  Doesn't have to be that way.  In RL it is NEVER ambiguous if I'm interested in someone and if it's that way for you you're doing it wrong.  They know it because I tell them.  It is ridiculous that just by selecting/electing to be friendly you are on the ramp to a romance with character x.  THAT was my point.  Make it a little more drawn out and then make it simple and clear that your character is directly interested in the target "romantically", rather than 1) you were nice in convo 1, 2) nice in convo 2, 3) nice in convo 3 now character x is making eyes at you and then next convo indicates you are a "thing".  

 

No. And I don't want to have to tell peeps to back off just because I was "nice" to them.  There's no ambiguity in going for someone so no need to hide it in clumsy convo choices.  

 

That is, in point of fact, exactly what happens with Cortez. There is no ninjamance. There are a few conversations in which mixed signals may or may not be sent depending on your interpretation thereof but there is a point where he straight up ASKS you and you can straight up TELL him that you're not interested and then you go on being bros. Which you would know if you hadn't made up your mind about how the relationship must go before you even bothered to speak to him properly.
 

[daveliam]

That is, in point of fact, exactly what happens with Cortez. There is no ninjamance. There are a few conversations in which mixed signals may or may not be sent depending on your interpretation thereof but there is a point where he straight up ASKS you and you can straight up TELL him that you're not interested and then you go on being bros. Which you would know if you hadn't made up your mind about how the relationship must go before you even bothered to speak to him properly.

Fredward: If you have to convince someone that killing off a character because they are gay and hit on you is a bad thing, it's probably not worth the effort......

[Dantriges]

Migrant Fleet tech implies there are simply resources you cannot craft without proper fabrication and industry. You need a world.

Additional ships, those require hulks made of alloys, ceramics, plastics and etc, electrical components, etc, just expanding the fleet would require shipyards and factories, little lone colonies.

All of this is stuff that by ME3 you are unable to craft without dedicated production, aka you can't just use a omni gel fabricator.

 

The quarians do it all the time. Ok, according to the books, their fleet will probably break down in the next 90 years, after 300 years of usage, but we aren´t close to that yet, their fleest is cobbled together out of everything they could get their hands on and the quarians are rather limited in the choice of worlds. 

 

Shipyards for bigger ships are in orbit. An asteroid would be a better site to put your shipyard close to, because it´s easier to move the stuff. And if the asteroids are similar to the ones in our system, there is a lot to mine.

We were talking about a world with big infrastructure and cities. In order to gain a foothold you probably have to bomb the site, to minimize losses and local resistance or it is a technological backwater. And even then you have the problem of guerilla warfare. Even if your armor makes you invulnerable to their weapons, people don´t wear it all the time. Anyways either you bombed their stuff or it´s so outdated that you would acquire the equivalent of 18th centure steam engines (your stuff is 22nd, theirs is 20th century) which don´t help you at all, probably. Also it´s a good question if you are able to get their manufacturing and resource extracting industry in a state where you can use it, without these pesky locals. It´s probably easier to start from scratch than refitting all of their things while in hostile territory. And depending on the damage you did, could be that you have to build extracors and refineries anyways.

 

I assume that the ARK has some fabrication units that are able to build the stuff you need to build the rest, because flying to another galaxy with the plan "let´s hope we find an inhabited planet which is defenseless but has the infrastructure we need, sound rather dumb."

And the scenario was "do we make this last jump or are we desperate enough  to go to war."

Ok this scenario wouldn´t happen, probably. You can curcumvent jumps into dead ends by reloading and if there is no alternative, it´s no choice at all.

[Getorex]

Fredward: If you have to convince someone that killing off a character because they are gay and hit on you is a bad thing, it's probably not worth the effort......

 

 

 Read into it what you want. I LET him die because I got annoyed with the conversation and interactions and navigating them.  

 

I didn't kill him at all. He is killed simply because I just didn't care one way or another.  He's a side character.  I wouldn't have cried much if Vega bit it either.  I cared more for Garrus, Tali, Liara, and Ash because they were there from ME1.  

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Read into it what you want. I LET him die because I got annoyed with the conversation and interactions and navigating them.

I didn't kill him at all. He is killed simply because I just didn't care one way or another. He's a side character. I wouldn't have cried much if Vega bit it either. I cared more for Garrus, Tali, Liara, and Ash because they were there from ME1.

This confuses me. What's so hard with not choosing the romance options. I played through twice and never had any problems with it.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Fredward: If you have to convince someone that killing off a character because they are gay and hit on you is a bad thing, it's probably not worth the effort......

To be fair, he didn't kill off anyone. He simply didn't talk to him. He apparently dies at the end of the game. Long after any confusing flirt options happened.

[Getorex]

To be fair, he didn't kill off anyone. He simply didn't talk to him. He apparently dies at the end of the game. Long after any confusing flirt options happened.

 

 

Indeed. I ASSUMED after the fact that it is because I didn't spend all the time talking with him.  I dont' go out of my way there.  I skip most convos with Allers too.  Whether it would have gotten her killed or not is a big "who cares?" as well.  I wouldn't chat her up just to save her.

[Getorex]

This confuses me. What's so hard with not choosing the romance options. I played through twice and never had any problems with it.

 

 

Because it can be done BETTER and without ANY clumsyness or mistakes.  DA:I does it right.  There is NO POINT to doing it the typical ME way of try this or that conversation option and...oops...that set off events I never wanted or foresaw.  

 

It really isn't that hard or complex to understand.

[Hiemoth]

Because it can be done BETTER and without ANY clumsyness or mistakes.  DA:I does it right.  There is NO POINT to doing it the typical ME way of try this or that conversation option and...oops...that set off events I never wanted or foresaw.  

 

It really isn't that hard or complex to understand.

 

Partially because they removed all attempts by the companions to start the romance, probably due to the weird Anders backslash from DA2. But even looking past that, what is really so bad about the fact that you have to turn someone down? It doesn't affect the relationship afterwards, it doesn't stop any other relationships because locking in a relationship requires a very, very specific choice that is really underlined when it happens. Based on what is discusses here I would assume nobody ever turns anyone down in real life because body language, people.

[Pasquale1234]

That is, in point of fact, exactly what happens with Cortez. There is no ninjamance. There are a few conversations in which mixed signals may or may not be sent depending on your interpretation thereof but there is a point where he straight up ASKS you and you can straight up TELL him that you're not interested and then you go on being bros. Which you would know if you hadn't made up your mind about how the relationship must go before you even bothered to speak to him properly.

Both ME1 and ME2 set some precedence in the way you could not talk to some characters without some presumption of romantic interest.

In ME1, Liara always questions Shepard about Kaidan, even if Shepard never actually talks to him. I found it difficult to conduct any friendly conversations with Kaidan without ending up in some weird triangle where Shepard had to choose between Liara and Kaidan.

In ME2, I learned pretty quickly not to try to have any friendly conversations with Jacob. Shepard immediately goes into flirt mode, and there is no indication whatsoever on the dialogue wheel that that would happen. Likewise, in DAO, I learned not to talk to Alistair beyond a certain approval level, lest I end up with a rose stuck in my inventory and Wynne lecturing me about him versus Leliana.

ME3 produced a couple of uncomfortable moments with Vega. At the end of the cabin chat when he asks Shepard's opinion about him joining the N7 program, Shepard makes some comment about the bed being harder than it looks, and he puts up his hands and says he'll take her word for it, as if he is turning down a proposition. If she goes to talk to him when he's getting a tattoo, the conversation ends with her asking him if he's ever gonna make good on his flirting. I don't believe there's any way to avoid either of those.

I didn't talk to Traynor at all during my first couple of playthroughs of ME3 for fear that I might inadvertently trigger something. My characters wanted to continue their relationships with Liara.

Garrus was much better written, in that Shepard had to specifically choose an obvious dialogue option to start a romance with him. Otherwise, he was a bff and bro to the end.

So there's quite a bit of room for improvement in allowing players to choose when their character will flirt and with whom.

[daveliam]

Partially because they removed all attempts by the companions to start the romance, probably due to the weird Anders backslash from DA2. But even looking past that, what is really so bad about the fact that you have to turn someone down? It doesn't affect the relationship afterwards, it doesn't stop any other relationships because locking in a relationship requires a very, very specific choice that is really underlined when it happens. Based on what is discusses here I would assume nobody ever turns anyone down in real life because body language, people.

 

That's exactly why.  The devs confirmed that they wouldn't go with that approach after the backlash from Anders.

[Hadeedak]

That's exactly why.  The devs confirmed that they wouldn't go with that approach after the backlash from Anders.

 

Yet another thing to blame Anders for.

 

Damnit, Anders.