31 réponses à ce sujet

[Rolhir]

I've seen numerous people compare Inquisition to being closer to DAO than DA2 was. I'm apparently missing something because I feel like this is pretty much like DA2. The biggest thing that Bioware talked about was the "tactical camera" which is far clunkier and less useable than DA2 which in turn was not as good as DAO's. I'm not looking to pick a fight about DAO or DA2 being better! I would just like to know what people believe is closer to DAO than DA2 about Inquisition.

[AlanC9]

The environments, typically.

[nightscrawl]

There is also the over-arching plot of a world-ending calamity, whereas DA2 was "here is a story about a guy/gal who tries to hold it all together, but can't." (I actually like DA2 btw.)

 

OP, you only focused on a single thing in your entire post: the tactical camera. So, if you have the feeling that DAI is more like DA2, what else about it is reminiscent of it to you?

[Rolhir]

OP, you only focused on a single thing in your entire post: the tactical camera. So, if you have the feeling that DAI is more like DA2, what else about it is reminiscent of it to you?

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that was the only thing; it was just the only thing I recalled Bioware claiming was from DAO. The combat has the faster combat and is more, for lack of a better word, "punchier." The protagonist is voiced. The plot is still about a bunch of smaller unrelated issues (only the Warden and Orlais quests have anything in common) that are only related through characters. The ability trees are much more similar to DA2. I can keep going if you want....

 

I just don't see anything that makes me think "Oh, this is a callback to DAO's style instead of DA2." I don't think that locations really count as even though the buildings and caves were all the same, DAO didn't really have much more than DA2.

[MaxQuartiroli]

I also find it difficult to find many similarities between  DA2 and DA:I.

Aside from the setting I see 3 games which are totally different from one another.

[vbibbi]

When I've seen the comparisons, it's more in terms of "DAO did this better" or "DAI improved on what DAO did" rather than similarities between them. I think people see DA2 as the stepping stone between the games, as its graphics and a lot of the gameplay (minus tactics) carried over from DA2 to DAI, but DAI carried over some DAO elements like companion approval, larger story focus.

 

I think both DAO and DAI are also more popular than DA2, so it gets pushed to the side when comparing DA games. From these boards, it seems people generally fall into two camps, those who prefer DAO and those who prefer DAI. There are people who like DA2, but rarely do they prefer it to either of the other games.

[AlanC9]

I can see some similarities in the later games' combat, especially by comparison to DA:O. Both games are about finding and exploiting synergies between disparate abilities, both on the individual character and across characters.

And of course, they both have a voiced protagonist.

[CronoDragoon]

It's really a mix of both.

Similarities to DA0:
Companion approval system
Playable world size
Narrative structure
Multiple race protagonist
Large companion cast
Base of operations
Ability to put armor on companions

Similarities to DA2 revolve around a voiced PC, dialogue wheel, and a bunch of combat similarities. Combat in particular is an evolved form of DA2, and the ways in which it is different from DA2 it's also different from Origins (thinking mainly of the action combat, here).

[JWvonGoethe]

It's about as far removed from DA2 as BioWare could have possibly gone while still keeping it as a Dragon Age game.

 

(Spoilers for long post; no actual spoilers)

Spoiler

Dragon Age 2 had very limited exploration, while Inquisition has a vast amount of exploration.

Dragon Age 2 had human only protagonist, whereas Inquisition has even more races than DA:O had.

Dragon Age 2 had a fixed background for the protagonist, whereas Inquisition had multiple backgrounds like DA:O.

Dragon Age 2 was a much smaller scale story, whereas Inquisition is an epic tale about saving the world like DA:O.

Dragon Age 2 was more like a series of loads of side stories where it was sometimes difficult to disentangle the main quest from the side quests, whereas Inquisition has a very clear distinction between what is main story content and what is side content (and probably goes too far with this distinction).

Dragon Age 2 had almost no customisation for the companions, whereas Inquisition has a lot of it.

Dragon Age 2 didn't follow up on many of the main events of DA:O, whereas Inquisition offers a much clearer continuation of past events in the series.

Dragon Age 2 allowed you to romance any companion regardless of your gender, whereas Inquisition returned to and expanded upon the way romance was done in DA:O.

Dragon Age 2 had unique specialisations for each of the companions, whereas in Inquisition the protagonist has access to the same specialisations that the companions have (as in DA:O).

Dragon Age 2 didn't have the tactical camera from DA:O, whereas Inquisition did.

Dragon Age 2 was a framed narrative unlike both Inquisition and DA:O.

Dragon Age 2 had a friendship/rivalry approval system, whereas Inquisition returned to the way DA:O did it.

Dragon Age 2 had no party base unlike Inquisition and Origins.

Dragon Age 2 had dominant personality tones, unlike Inquisition and Origins.

And most importantly, you couldn't randomly kiss your love interest in DA2, whereas you could do this in DA:O and Inquisition.

 

There were some influences from DA2, but even then with most of those features they found a middle ground between DA:O and DA2, eg.: the new elf design landing somewhere inbetween the "humans with pointy ears" of DA:O and the "aliens" of DA2; the combat being faster than DA:O's "Warden shuffle" but slower than the "awesome button-ness" of DA2; retaining the unique companion styles of DA2 while bringing back the companion customisation from DA:O; keeping the voiced protagonist of DA2 while taking multiple steps to bring back the roleplaying freedom of DA:O (for instance by having multiple voice actors per gender, having more opportunities to talk about your background and the voice direction being more neutral overall).

 

I wouldn't say Inquisition is even nearly approaching being a clone of DA:O, but it doesn't have much in common with DA2 beyond being a Dragon Age game and following the general BioWare design philosophy. Inquisition, while broadly remaining within the overall scope of "BioWare RPG", is honestly pretty far removed from both of the previous games in terms of overall design, to the point where it's a common criticism of the series that each game feels so different.

[Rolhir]

Reply to long post

Spoiler

]Dragon Age 2 had very limited exploration, while Inquisition has a vast amount of exploration. -That is true, but DAO wasn't a vast open world either. Random nooks and crannies of areas are in both DA2 and DAI yet absent from DAO in comparison.

Dragon Age 2 had human only protagonist, whereas Inquisition has even more races than DA:O had. -That is mostly a cosmetic difference with a couple lines of dialogue. Mass Effect did too, but that doesn't make the games even remotely similar.

Dragon Age 2 had a fixed background for the protagonist, whereas Inquisition had multiple backgrounds like DA:O. -And those backgrounds come up pretty much never except the War Table and a couple lines of dialogue. Again, a small difference.

Dragon Age 2 was a much smaller scale story, whereas Inquisition is an epic tale about saving the world like DA:O. -Yes, it was a different kind of story, but as I said in an earlier post, it's still close to DA2 as each main quest mostly stands alone unconnected to the rest except through the protagonist and villain (who isn't part of most of them).

Dragon Age 2 was more like a series of loads of side stories where it was sometimes difficult to disentangle the main quest from the side quests, whereas Inquisition has a very clear distinction between what is main story content and what is side content (and probably goes too far with this distinction). -Yep, I agree.

Dragon Age 2 had almost no customisation for the companions, whereas Inquisition has a lot of it. -Cosmetically, mostly. And even then, it's not that much. You got to customize their abilities in every game. As for DAI, the accessories are nice, but that's an entirely new thing that didn't exist in either game previously.

Dragon Age 2 didn't follow up on many of the main events of DA:O, whereas Inquisition offers a much clearer continuation of past events in the series. -DAO didn't follow up on anything....so? Inquisition is a direct follow up to DA2; there is some talk about Blight, but very little in comparison to the mage/templar conflict.

Dragon Age 2 allowed you to romance any companion regardless of your gender, whereas Inquisition returned to and expanded upon the way romance was done in DA:O. -In what way was it expanded upon? I agree that the limited genders/races was closer to DAO, but this is again a small mostly cosmetic difference (DA2 just didn't make you play a new character to romance who you wanted).

Dragon Age 2 had unique specialisations for each of the companions, whereas in Inquisition the protagonist has access to the same specialisations that the companions have (as in DA:O). -Yes, that is the same, but once again, a very small chance. The DA2 specializations weren't some crazy off the wall thing. For instance, Merrill was pretty much a blood mage as far as her ability tree.

Dragon Age 2 didn't have the tactical camera from DA:O, whereas Inquisition did. -I nearly returned DAI because the tactical camera was nothing like DAO whereas playing DA2 felt right at home with the interface. DAO allows you to view the entire area disconnected from a character; DAI gives you control of an invisible character as the camera with a very clunky interface. DAI is not like DAO in this manner; feel free to go look up old threads on this forum at the uproar at launch about the suckiness of the "tactical camera."

Dragon Age 2 was a framed narrative unlike both Inquisition and DA:O. -Ok...very very minor thing. Honestly the time skips are a bigger difference.

Dragon Age 2 had a friendship/rivalry approval system, whereas Inquisition returned to the way DA:O did it. -I didn't think about this one. You're right.

Dragon Age 2 had no party base unlike Inquisition and Origins. -Each party member had their own home. It was still a base, just not one instance. I could move more quickly between Hawke's place and any companion's quite a bit faster than I could go between the Inquisitor's quarters and to the tavern to talk to Sera or Cole.

Dragon Age 2 had dominant personality tones, unlike Inquisition and Origins. -While technically true, there are different stances that you can have (pro/anti chantry/mages/templars and such). So this is more similar to DA2 than DAO.

And most importantly, you couldn't randomly kiss your love interest in DA2, whereas you could do this in DA:O and Inquisition. -Yes, you can randomly kiss them if you go back to Haven/Skyhold...with the exact same cutscene. DA2 just opted to not reuse the same cutscene (ironic with the reused buildings/caves)

While I do see some cosmetic and minor similarities to DAO you've listed, none of them are about the core gameplay other than the tactical camera (which as I said twice already is not the same as DAO at all). I just don't see most people looking at DAI and saying "Oh, it's so much more similar to DAO because we can kiss our love interest whenever!"

[Greetsme]

1 - DA2: Now my favourite Dragon age game, only spoiled by it's copy/paste locations and being confined to one city.

2 - DAO: A really fantastic game, but starting to show it's age, thus second place.

3 - DAI:  A good game, but a bloody awful Bioware game.  I can only imagine that this was a experiment to see if they could wrap a dragon age game   around the frostbite engine.  They failed, but needed to recoup the cost of that experiment.

[Abyss108]

Feels much more like Origins to me. 

 

The only thing that seemed more similar to 2 are the voiced protagonist and dialogue wheel. And those are just Bioware staples used in all their games these days, not a specific DA2 feature.

 

(DAI >>> DAO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DA2)

[Panda]

You are focusing on tactical camera, I doubt people who compare DAI to DAO even are thinking of tactical camera.

[Rolhir]

1 - DA2: Now my favourite Dragon age game, only spoiled by it's copy/paste locations and being confined to one city.

2 - DAO: A really fantastic game, but starting to show it's age, thus second place.

3 - DAI:  A good game, but a bloody awful Bioware game.  I can only imagine that this was a experiment to see if they could wrap a dragon age game   around the frostbite engine.  They failed, but needed to recoup the cost of that experiment.

That's almost exactly how I feel. I'd probably put DAI in second just due to the feel of the combat with DAO right behind in 3rd. All good games though.

[WardenBlue]

That's almost exactly how I feel. I'd probably put DAI in second just due to the feel of the combat with DAO right behind in 3rd. All good games though.

You could say the same about DA2, it's mechanics were too fast while DAO's were just slow and clunky on two handed people. Then DAI came along.... It's mechanics were the best of them all. 

[Tidus]

DA:2 reminds me of  FF 10-2 more then DA:O or DA:I.  In short its a stand alone game with some familiar faces.

 

While I like DA:2 I gotta give it 3rd place in the pecking order of the DA series. DA:O still remains #1 on my regularly played RPG list-that saying a lot since it edge out my other two favorite  games FF12 and FF10.

[Cheviot]

DA:I is much closer to DA:O than DA2.  All it's really missing is the race-specific opening mission, and it's arguable that it even needs that, since it's not the focus of the game.  Almost every other aspect has been improved upon.  DA2 was, to me, an expansion of the scale of Awakening that was stretched to be a full game when there wasn't enough there to fill the space. 

[Donquijote and 59 others]

It's really a mix of both.

Similarities to DA0:
Companion approval system
Playable world size
Narrative structure
Multiple race protagonist
Large companion cast
Base of operations
Ability to put armor on companions

Similarities to DA2 revolve around a voiced PC, dialogue wheel, and a bunch of combat similarities. Combat in particular is an evolved form of DA2, and the ways in which it is different from DA2 it's also different from Origins (thinking mainly of the action combat, here).

-Companion approval system?

 From what i grasped the one of DAO was outrageously stupid with the companions  being easily manipulated by the gift system.

 

-Playable world size? 

Did people really care about the world in the first game? It was a lot of identikit forests, plus a capital city that was simply one unpopulated marketplace and the same back alley literally cloned 4 or 5 times. 

 

-Multiple race protagonist?

Multiple race protagonist without an origin.

[vbibbi]

 

-Playable world size? 

Did people really care about the world in the first game? It was a lot of identikit forests, plus a capital city that was simply one unpopulated marketplace and the same back alley literally cloned 4 or 5 times.

And yet Denerim, ostensibly a backwater city even though it's the capital, is larger and more immersive than what we get of Val Royeaux in DAI. I really wish we could have seen a worthwhile Val Royeaux. I would have given up the Hissing Wastes, Oasis, and Fallow Mire in order to get an actual city.

[AlanC9]

And yet Denerim, ostensibly a backwater city even though it's the capital, is larger and more immersive than what we get of Val Royeaux in DAI. I really wish we could have seen a worthwhile Val Royeaux. I would have given up the Hissing Wastes, Oasis, and Fallow Mire in order to get an actual city.

You'd also need a plot rewrite. DA:I isn't really about what goes on in Val Royeaux, whereas DA:O is about what goes on in Denerim. But I suppose WEWH could have been expanded easily enough.

But I gotta go with Giovanni here. The areas of Denerim that aren't main-quest-only aren't any better than what we got of Val Royeaux.

[CronoDragoon]

 

-Companion approval system?

 From what i grasped the one of DAO was outrageously stupid with the companions  being easily manipulated by the gift system.

 

-Playable world size? 

Did people really care about the world in the first game? It was a lot of identikit forests, plus a capital city that was simply one unpopulated marketplace and the same back alley literally cloned 4 or 5 times. 

 

-Multiple race protagonist?

Multiple race protagonist without an origin.

 

 

1. Yep. But the structure of the approval system in DA: I is still closer to DA: O than DA2. High approval <----> Low approval (which can lead to someone leaving) compared to Friendship vs. Rivalry (the only time people leave is if they are indifferent, in the middle)

 

2. I didn't, but nevertheless this is a place where they are at least slightly more similar. Perhaps it's closer to say that DAO and DAI are more similar in the variety of environments they show you, which people certainly do care about in reference to DA2.

 

3. DAI's protagonists all have origins, albeit text ones. Still closer to DAO than than DA2.

[Ghost Gal]

 

-Companion approval system?

 From what i grasped the one of DAO was outrageously stupid with the companions  being easily manipulated by the gift system.

 

And in DA2 you can treat them like utter garbage all the time and commit countless atrocities right in front of them and it just makes them more loyal to you instead of repulsed by or wanting to leave you, so in that the two games even out.

 

-Playable world size? 

Did people really care about the world in the first game? It was a lot of identikit forests, plus a capital city that was simply one unpopulated marketplace and the same back alley literally cloned 4 or 5 times.

 

People cared that DA2 was just one city with the same alley and building designs over and over and over again, plus the surrounding beach with the cave and the Deep Road systems that have the same exact cave layout over and over and over again.

 

I personally think DAI went overboard with all the MASSIVE open worlds (I think they could have spent more time on characters, central story, and interact-able quests than just filling vast open spaces with yet more landscapes, monsters, and MMO-style fetch quests), but based on the feedback it seems most people are just happy to have bigger exploitable worlds than one prison of a city and the surrounding beach and caves.

 

-Multiple race protagonist?

Multiple race protagonist without an origin.

 

So? The human protagonist doesn't have a playable origin either. (And was never intended to have one; from the very beginning they were going to make the protagonist's backgrounds text-based just like Shepard from Mass Effect.)

 

I'm personally okay with the text-based backgrounds because I don't need to be spoon-fed my dwarf's, elf's, or vashoth's life to imagine living it, any more than most human players need to be spoon-fed what Shepard's life was like as a street rat/military brat/former slave, Hawke's life as part of a blended former noble/apostate Ferelden farmer family, Trevelyan's life as a noble turned Circle mage or Chantry member in order to imagine and roleplay it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

You are focusing on tactical camera, I doubt people who compare DAI to DAO even are thinking of tactical camera.

I'm playing some DAO right now (played Leliana's Song for the first time yesterday), and I find I miss the mobility of DAI's camera.

I said when DAI came out that the camera was an improvement in DAO's, and I stand by that.

[Panda]

I'm playing some DAO right now (played Leliana's Song for the first time yesterday), and I find I miss the mobility of DAI's camera.

I said when DAI came out that the camera was an improvement in DAO's, and I stand by that.

 

Tactical camera creates so much lag on PS3's battles that I didn't use it really ^^;

[Sylvius the Mad]

Tactical camera creates so much lag on PS3's battles that I didn't use it really ^^;

On consoles the improvement is even clearer; DAO didn't even have the tactical camera on consoles.