29 réponses à ce sujet

[craymond727]

Hello all,

 

I'm completely unfamiliar with 3rd edition rules (have only played BGEEs and IWDEE) and don't know how to go about building a Monk in NWN. I've tried reading through about Str. v Dex v. Wis.-builds, and I've only gotten more lost. For now, I'd like just to focus on the vanilla campaign, and then possibly go through the others afterwards or with an entirely new character. At this point, my biggest questions would be what are the best starting stats, feats, & skills for a pureclass monk, and how should I allocate points at the following level-ups?

[AndrueD]

OC very easy so should experiment.

 

Monk goes either gloves or kamas.  Good gloves in OC, not so much kamas but some are there. Pure monk is best with max of 18 lvls but maybe some fighter for feats monk class miss, rogue for trap skills (lots of traps in OC) and UMD or else SB battle cleric WIS synergy.  Druid polymorph also work nice with some monk but needs to stay LN for whole campaign.  Lotta ways to go really, but best to keep one class high else the build will gimp out. Hard to use prestige classes for short campaign like OC.

 

Whichever you pick (STR, DEX, WIS) put at least 16 there.  Prolly at least CON 14 too.  INT 14 for lots of skills.  STR prolly easiest to build. DEX build needs finesse.  WIS build mainly for monk stunning and AC, most rare monk build to see.

 

Maybe if you have ideas you type them so ppl can help you build them?

[rogueknight333]

If you are not confident you know what you are doing, I suggest going with a DEX-based monk. This will maximize the main advantage of the monk (lots of defense), while STR or WIS monks tend to be more specialized builds. Plausible starting stats would (assuming you are human and have no racial bonuses/penalties to stats) be something like:

 

STR: 12

DEX: 16

CON: 14

INT: 12

WIS: 14

CHA: 8

 

Increase only DEX on level up. These are a rough guideline, not set in stone: You could easily reduce STR, INT, or WIS to increase something else, depending on the exact build or environment. The key decision to guide your build is what weapon you want to go for. There are several good choices here: fighting unarmed or with a kama as monks get bonus attacks with both of these (dual-wielding kamas is a good way to massively increase APR) or using a missile weapon and relying on the Monk's speed bonus for improved kiting.

 

In theory, kamas are better than fists, since if you are using monk gloves for unarmed bonuses you are in effect sacrificing an equipment slot that could give Stat increases or other benefits. However, this can be very dependent on the enviroment: if very powerful magical gloves are available, and the magical kamas on offer are nothing special (which I believe is the case in the OC), fighting with your fists might be the better choice.

 

If you plan to fight with fists crucial feats to get would be Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus & Improved Critical: Unarmed.

 

If you go with kamas, I suggest dual-wielding them, so crucial feats would be Weapon Finesse, Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, and Weapon Focus & Improved Critical: Kama.

 

Some good general feats for a melee-combat oriented PC would be Toughness, Blindfight and Dodge.

 

If you go with missile weapons, good feats to take would be Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus & Improved Critical for the appropriate weapon, Called Shot, and Rapid Reload (if using crossbows) or Rapid Shot (otherwise). You might also want to take Martial Weapon Proficiency to use Longbows (though taking a level in Fighter or some other class providing that proficiency for free would probably be a better way to do that).

 

Note that many of the above feats require a minimum Base Attack Bonus as a pre-requisite, meaning you would not be able to take them at 1st Level, so you might want to take something like Toughness or Dodge as your first feat.

 

Do NOT take the Circle Kick feat: it is bugged and not very useful.

 

As far as skills go, Tumble is the only one that is a must-have: max that out for the armor bonus. What other skills you go with really depends on your playstyle or environment. You could develop Hide & Move Silently to gain the option of scouting out enemies before committing to engaging them, or go for Open Locks, Disarm Traps and Search (as cross-class skills) so you are not completely dependent on a henchman or some other roundabout expedient for dealing with locks and traps, among other possibilities.

[AndrueD]

If you go with kamas, I suggest dual-wielding them, so crucial feats would be Weapon Finesse, Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, and Weapon Focus & Improved Critical: Kama.

 

In OC, only get 8 general feats max as pure human monk so would get many DW feats very late (gen feat 8 @ lvl 18) unless put some fighter levels (or CoT after monk 10), if can get that high (must farm all possible XP & sidequests solo w/o hench). 

 

Melee need Blind Fight bad and not late.  Non-human pure monk only get 7 gen feats (gen feat 7 @ lvl 18) so prolly get Imp 2-wpn fight when campaign ready to end.  Mnk14/Ftr4 still get SR 24 and Imp Evade and only miss 1 monk AC & 10% speed boost so prolly worth 4 ftr lvls after mnk 6.  Fighter 4 give better BAB w/WpnSpecial and CoT give better BAB but not WS.  CoT better saves, tho and no XP pen with non-human/non-halfelf, but CoT only work with kama monk.  Prolly WS will help make DWing dmg much better in any dexer build, DW or not DW.

 

Main difference fists are bludgeon with kama slashing.  Some undead have slash/pierce resist but afaik no undead have bludgeon resist. But some boss might have resist for all physical.

 

But DW best idea if not fisting since monk won't hold shield   a good start for epic dodge toon when play it that long.

[Empyre65]

I suggest 7 levels of Monk, then 4 levels of Fighter, and then all Monk. Take the feats for dual kamas, but fight unarmed anyway until around late chapter 2.

[Nick The Noodle]

If human, and want to be a Kama specialist, you may want to go 12 Monk, 1 Shadow Dancer, 7 Weapon Specialist, and then back to Monk until L40 is reached.  You won't have weapon specialism but can make up with greater stealth.

[AndrueD]

If human, and want to be a Kama specialist, you may want to go 12 Monk, 1 Shadow Dancer, 7 Weapon Specialist, and then back to Monk until L40 is reached.  You won't have weapon specialism but can make up with greater stealth.

 

I think you mean Weapon master (from 7 level you show) not weapon specialist, no?  Human Monk/SD/WM not enough feats to do.  Need fighter so pick either SD or WM not both.

 

OP say plan for vanilla campaign only means max 18 lvl build (maybe 17 if hench used alot for combat XP).  Is a new player so think is trying to learn one class at a time. Prolly multiclass will make hard to learn basic monk in DnD 3.0.  Ftr 4 is ok to get max APR but not needed in easy OC.  It still multiclass which maybe not good for learning old DnD vershun.

 

For dexer mnk/sd/wm DW need at least finesse, WF, imp crit, 2-wpn fight, ambidex, dodge, mobile, expert, spring, ww... that already 10 feat and no blind fight or imp 2-wpn fight on list.  Maybe could wait to do WM in epic but OC not epic.  WM usually best before 20 anyway for better BAB.

[Empyre65]

Here's a build I played with great success in the OC and then the Aribeth's Redemption series, which has lots of action but is also a love story between the PC and Aribeth. You end up at about level 27 or so, similar to HotU, but I extended the build to level 40 so it can be played elsewhere, too. In the other campaign mentioned, ES is The Elder Scrolls, an excellent-but-optional bridge module for between SoU and HotU, and SoF is the Sands of Fate series that will take you all the way to level 40. Like I mentioned before, fight unarmed until you have all three dual-wielding feats, and even then, keep your monk gloves, but wear something else in that slot unless you are fighting unarmed.

 

Spoiler

Dervish (Rogue 19 / Monk 11 / Fighter 10)
Human, Any Lawful
Playable 1 - 40, PvM
for either the OC + follow-up mods OR SoU, ES, HotU, and SoF

Abilities:
STR: 14
DEX: 16 (32)
CON: 12
WIS: 12
INT: 14
CHA: 8

Leveling Guide:
Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Rogue(1): Toughness, Dodge
02: Monk(1): {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist}
03: Rogue(2): Weapon Finesse
04: Fighter(1): DEX+1, Weapon Focus: Kama, (DEX=17)
05: Rogue(3): {Uncanny Dodge I}
06: Rogue(4): Blind Fight
07: Monk(2): {Deflect Arrows}
08: Fighter(2): DEX+1, Two-Weapon Fighting, (DEX=18)
09: Rogue(5): Ambidexterity
10: Fighter(3)
11: Rogue(6)
12: Monk(3): DEX+1, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, (DEX=19)
13: Rogue(7)
14: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization: Kama
15: Rogue(8): Iron Will
16: Monk(4): DEX+1, (DEX=20)
17: Rogue(9)
18: Rogue(10): Improved Critical: Kama, Defensive Roll
19: Fighter(5)
20: Rogue(11): DEX+1, (DEX=21)
21: Monk(5): Epic Weapon Focus: Kama
22: Monk(6): {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown}
23: Fighter(6): Epic Weapon Specialization: Kama
24: Monk(7): DEX+1, Great Dexterity I, (DEX=23)
25: Rogue(12)
26: Fighter(7)
27: Monk(8): Great Dexterity II, (DEX=24)
28: Fighter(8): DEX+1, Armor Skin, (DEX=25)
29: Monk(9): {Improved Evasion}
30: Rogue(13): Great Dexterity III, Epic Dodge, (DEX=26)
31: Rogue(14)
32: Rogue(15): DEX+1, (DEX=27)
33: Rogue(16): Great Dexterity IV, Slippery Mind, (DEX=28)
34: Fighter(9)
35: Fighter(10): Epic Prowess
36: Rogue(17): DEX+1, Great Dexterity V, (DEX=30)
37: Monk(10)
38: Rogue(18)
39: Monk(11): Great Dexterity VI, (DEX=31)
40: Rogue(19): DEX+1, Improved Sneak Attack I, (DEX=32)

Stats:
Hitpoints: 382
Skillpoints: 369
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 22/21/33
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +4, Mind Effects: +2, Traps: +4
BAB: 26
AB (max, naked): 41 (melee), 38 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 34/34
Spell Casting:
Alignment Changes: 0

Skills:
Disable Trap 43(47), Discipline 42(44), Lore 33(35), Open Lock 43(54), Search 43(45), Set Trap 5(18), Spellcraft 18(20), Spot 43(44), Tumble 40(51), UMD 41(40)

01: Disable Trap(4), Lore(4), Open Lock(4), Search(4), Set Trap(4), Spellcraft(2), Spot(4), Tumble(4), UMD(4), Save(8)
02: Discipline(5), Lore(1), Tumble(1), Save(8)
03: Disable Trap(2), Lore(1), Open Lock(2), Search(2), Set Trap(1), Spellcraft(1), Spot(2), Tumble(1), UMD(2), Save(4)
04: Discipline(2), Lore(1), Save(6)
05: Disable Trap(2), Lore(1), Open Lock(2), Search(2), Spellcraft(1), Spot(2), Tumble(2), UMD(2), Save(2)
06: Disable Trap(1), Lore(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(6)
07: Discipline(3), Lore(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(6)
08: Discipline(1), Lore(1), Save(9)
09: Disable Trap(3), Lore(1), Open Lock(3), Search(3), Spellcraft(1), Spot(3), Tumble(2), UMD(3)
10: Discipline(2), Save(3)
11: Disable Trap(2), Open Lock(2), Search(2), Spellcraft(1), Spot(2), Tumble(2), UMD(2)
12: Discipline(2), Lore(1), Tumble(1), Save(3)
13: Disable Trap(2), Lore(1), Open Lock(2), Search(2), Spellcraft(1), Spot(2), Tumble(1), UMD(2)
14: Discipline(2), Save(3)
15: Disable Trap(2), Open Lock(2), Search(2), Spellcraft(1), Spot(2), Tumble(2), UMD(2)
16: Discipline(2), Tumble(1), Save(4)
17: Disable Trap(2), Open Lock(2), Search(2), Spellcraft(1), Spot(2), Tumble(1), UMD(2), Save(2)
18: Disable Trap(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1), Save(7)
19: Discipline(3), Spellcraft(1), Save(7)
20: Disable Trap(2), Open Lock(2), Search(2), Spot(2), Tumble(2), UMD(2), Save(6)
21: Discipline(2), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(8)
22: Discipline(1), Tumble(1), Save(13)
23: Discipline(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(15)
24: Discipline(1), Tumble(2), Save(19)
25: Disable Trap(5), Open Lock(5), Search(5), Spellcraft(1), Spot(5), Tumble(1), UMD(5), Save(2)
26: Discipline(2), Save(5)
27: Discipline(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(2), Save(7)
28: Discipline(1), Save(11)
29: Discipline(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(2), Save(13)
30: Disable Trap(5), Open Lock(5), Search(5), Spot(5), Tumble(1), UMD(3)
31: Disable Trap(1), Lore(4), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1)
32: Disable Trap(1), Lore(5), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(1)
33: Disable Trap(1), Open Lock(1), Search(1), Spellcraft(1), Spot(1), Tumble(1), UMD(4)
34: Discipline(5)
35: Discipline(1), Save(4)
36: Disable Trap(3), Open Lock(3), Search(3), Spot(3), Tumble(3)
37: Discipline(2), Lore(4), Tumble(1)
38: Disable Trap(2), Lore(3), Open Lock(2), Search(2), Spot(2)
39: Discipline(2), Lore(3), Save(2)
40: Disable Trap(2), Open Lock(2), Search(2), Spot(2), UMD(5)

Edited to spoiler the build.

[Nick The Noodle]

I think you mean Weapon master (from 7 level you show) not weapon specialist, no?  Human Monk/SD/WM not enough feats to do.  Need fighter so pick either SD or WM not both.

 

OP say plan for vanilla campaign only means max 18 lvl build (maybe 17 if hench used alot for combat XP).  Is a new player so think is trying to learn one class at a time. Prolly multiclass will make hard to learn basic monk in DnD 3.0.  Ftr 4 is ok to get max APR but not needed in easy OC.  It still multiclass which maybe not good for learning old DnD vershun.

 

For dexer mnk/sd/wm DW need at least finesse, WF, imp crit, 2-wpn fight, ambidex, dodge, mobile, expert, spring, ww... that already 10 feat and no blind fight or imp 2-wpn fight on list.  Maybe could wait to do WM in epic but OC not epic.  WM usually best before 20 anyway for better BAB.

 

I think you mean Weapon master (from 7 level you show) not weapon specialist, no?  Human Monk/SD/WM not enough feats to do.  Need fighter so pick either SD or WM not both.

 

OP say plan for vanilla campaign only means max 18 lvl build (maybe 17 if hench used alot for combat XP).  Is a new player so think is trying to learn one class at a time. Prolly multiclass will make hard to learn basic monk in DnD 3.0.  Ftr 4 is ok to get max APR but not needed in easy OC.  It still multiclass which maybe not good for learning old DnD vershun.

 

For dexer mnk/sd/wm DW need at least finesse, WF, imp crit, 2-wpn fight, ambidex, dodge, mobile, expert, spring, ww... that already 10 feat and no blind fight or imp 2-wpn fight on list.  Maybe could wait to do WM in epic but OC not epic.  WM usually best before 20 anyway for better BAB.

I did mean Weapon Master, but you can pick up 6 feats by level 12 ie weapon focus, dodge, mobility, spring attack, expertise and whirlwind attack, enough to satisfy the feat requirement for both SD and WM.  That means you can take a level of SD and 7 of WM by level 20.  Also the OP did not mention OC campaign only, but as a focus at first, before going on to other campaigns.

[craymond727]

Hey all, the past week has been crazy, but I appreciate all of your responses. I guess I should have clarified, but I feel I would prefer using fists to kamas, at least for this initial playthrough. It feels more like the characters I've played before, so for RP reasons I'd like to go that route. If using fists, should I go with a Str-based approach, or is a Dex/Wis build more viable?

[Empyre65]

Here's a build I have on-hand, but I haven't played it yet, and I was planning on using it in the Aielund Saga, not the OC: I'll put it in a spoiler to be friendlier.

 

Spoiler

Nimble Fist 2 (Monk 25 / Fighter 10 / Shadowdancer 5)
Human, Any Lawful
Playable 1 - 40

Abilities:
STR: 12
DEX: 17 (32)
CON: 12
WIS: 11 (12)
INT: 14
CHA: 8

Leveling Guide:
Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Monk(1): Blind Fight, Dodge, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist}
02: Monk(2): {Deflect Arrows}
03: Monk(3): Weapon Finesse
04: Monk(4): DEX+1, (DEX=18)
05: Monk(5)
06: Monk(6): Weapon Focus: Unarmed, {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown}
07: Monk(7)
08: Monk(8): DEX+1, (DEX=19)
09: Monk(9): Expertise, {Improved Evasion}
10: Monk(10)
11: Monk(11)
12: Monk(12): DEX+1, Toughness, (DEX=20)
13: Monk(13)
14: Monk(14)
15: Monk(15): Improved Critical: Unarmed
16: Fighter(1): DEX+1, Improved Expertise, (DEX=21)
17: Monk(16)
18: Fighter(2): Iron Will, Mobility
19: Fighter(3)
20: Fighter(4): DEX+1, Weapon Specialization: Unarmed, (DEX=22)
21: Shadowdancer(1): Great Dexterity I, {Hide in Plain Sight}, (DEX=23)
22: Shadowdancer(2): {Darkvision, Uncanny Dodge I}
23: Fighter(5)
24: Fighter(6): DEX+1, Great Dexterity II, Epic Weapon Focus: Unarmed, (DEX=25)
25: Shadowdancer(3)
26: Shadowdancer(4)
27: Shadowdancer(5): Epic Dodge, {Defensive Roll}
28: Fighter(7): DEX+1, (DEX=26)
29: Fighter(8): Epic Weapon Specialization: Unarmed
30: Monk(17): Great Wisdom I, (WIS=12)
31: Monk(18)
32: Monk(19): DEX+1, (DEX=27)
33: Monk(20): Great Dexterity III, (DEX=28)
34: Fighter(9)
35: Fighter(10): Epic Prowess
36: Monk(21): DEX+1, Great Dexterity IV, (DEX=30)
37: Monk(22)
38: Monk(23)
39: Monk(24): Great Dexterity V, (DEX=31)
40: Monk(25): DEX+1, Armor Skin, (DEX=32)

Stats:
Hitpoints: 420
Skillpoints: 291
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 25/24/32
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +4, Mind Effects: +2, Traps: +1
BAB: 26
AB (max, naked): 41 (melee), 38 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 37/37
Spell Casting:
Alignment Changes: 0

Skills:
Discipline 43(44), Heal 22(23), Hide 43(54), Listen 43(44), Lore 21(23), Move Silently 43(54), Spellcraft 18(20), Tumble 40(51)

01: Discipline(4), Hide(4), Listen(4), Lore(4), Move Silently(4), Spellcraft(2), Tumble(4)
02: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Lore(1), Move Silently(1), Tumble(1)
03: Discipline(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Move Silently(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1)
04: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Lore(1), Move Silently(1), Tumble(1)
05: Discipline(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Move Silently(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1)
06: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Lore(1), Move Silently(1), Tumble(1)
07: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Lore(1), Move Silently(1), Tumble(1)
08: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Lore(1), Move Silently(1), Tumble(1)
09: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Lore(1), Move Silently(1), Tumble(1)
10: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Lore(1), Move Silently(1), Tumble(1)
11: Discipline(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Move Silently(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1)
12: Discipline(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Move Silently(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1)
13: Discipline(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Move Silently(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1)
14: Discipline(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Move Silently(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1)
15: Discipline(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Move Silently(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1)
16: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Lore(1), Save(2)
17: Discipline(1), Hide(2), Listen(2), Move Silently(2), Tumble(2)
18: Discipline(1), Heal(2), Lore(1), Save(1)
19: Discipline(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(3)
20: Discipline(1), Save(7)
21: Hide(4), Listen(4), Move Silently(4), Tumble(4)
22: Hide(1), Listen(1), Move Silently(1), Spellcraft(2), Tumble(1), Save(1)
23: Discipline(3), Spellcraft(1), Save(1)
24: Discipline(1), Save(5)
25: Hide(3), Listen(3), Move Silently(3), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(3)
26: Heal(3), Hide(1), Listen(1), Lore(2), Move Silently(1), Tumble(1)
27: Heal(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Lore(1), Move Silently(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(1)
28: Discipline(4), Save(2)
29: Discipline(1), Save(6)
30: Discipline(1), Hide(3), Listen(3), Move Silently(3), Tumble(3)
31: Discipline(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Move Silently(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1)
32: Discipline(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Move Silently(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1)
33: Discipline(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Move Silently(1), Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1)
34: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Lore(1), Save(2)
35: Discipline(1), Save(6)
36: Discipline(1), Hide(3), Listen(3), Move Silently(3), Tumble(3)
37: Discipline(1), Heal(1), Hide(1), Listen(1), Lore(1), Move Silently(1), Tumble(1)
38: Discipline(1), Heal(2), Hide(1), Listen(1), Lore(1), Move Silently(1)
39: Discipline(1), Heal(2), Hide(1), Listen(1), Lore(1), Move Silently(1)
40: Discipline(1), Heal(2), Hide(1), Listen(1), Lore(1), Move Silently(1)

[AndrueD]

I guess I should have clarified, but I feel I would prefer using fists to kamas, at least for this initial playthrough. It feels more like the characters I've played before, so for RP reasons I'd like to go that route. If using fists, should I go with a Str-based approach, or is a Dex/Wis build more viable?

 

STR fister highest damage from d20 base @monk 16 plus STR-modifier but lowest AC of 3 kinds.

DEX fister need finesse so that extra feat must take but high AC & reflex save. Much lower damage, too.

WIS fister is stunner.  WIS's STR & DEX not real high so AB and damage is not either.  This main kind used for anti-mage stealth build to sneak up fast and stun 3 rnds.  It also have very high AC, tho and AC cannot drop when flank or flatfeet happen like DEX can.  Prolly hardest kind of monk to play.

 

DEX good for AB when needing to go range vs. damage shields or crossing gaps.  WIS range need Zen for AB so that another feat.  Range never use monk attack progression, tho.

 

It depend what you think biggest factor for how you play.  If pull mobs apart, donna need much AC.  If like to get flanked, need huge AC. GrtCleave and WW toon like to be flanked.

 

This still a plan for only OC to get used to monk class or also use same toon later for other CC?  You say before this only for OC but maybe change mind.

 

Make a difference cuz for 18 level should make max build happen before 18.  For later use, could suffer some in early build if it make later build much stronger.  For 18 should keep monk near pure but could exploit some class for feat or skill dumps.  Like a DEX stealth could do HiPS or even death attack if evil.  If not dwing kamas, your toon has enough feats to do other things.

 

Keep in mind two things about monk attack- one) added attacks only drop by 3BAB compare to by 5BAB for all other class atttack, and two) highest APR so any adder (like from STR mod, elemental or sneaks) will add to every hit.  Highest APR is highest damage if gloves can get past DR (not always easy to do).

[Adeph]

Empyre, I'm curious about why you take spot and listen in your builds as I always thought they were more or less pvp skills. Are they useful in the single player modules? I've never taken them so I'm wondering if I've been missing out.

[AndrueD]

Empyre, I'm curious about why you take spot and listen in your builds as I always thought they were more or less pvp skills. Are they useful in the single player modules? I've never taken them so I'm wondering if I've been missing out.

Empyre will answer for his building but I know that any server or module that use lotta auto-stealth AI with monsters need detect in build very bad or toon get mobbed too easy.  Most hard CC use auto-stealth AI in default so depend if module built to be hard or not.  Only reason not going detect skills is if can be True Seer.  But even True Seer not hearing stealth monster outside LOS without high listen.

 

OC easy modules, tho, so not need detect except maybe Search.

[Empyre65]

Having a good score in Listen or Spot makes it harder for enemies to sneak up on you. In many modules, the AI enemies will try to sneak up on you, and sneak attacks hurt. It's a good habit to get into, even if it proves to be unnecessary in the OC.

[Adeph]

Interesting, I haven't played many modules created by the community so that's useful to know. Thanks for the replies.

[Mystery X]

This is a late reply, probably too late to be helpful to the original poster.  But I am playing through the OC now after haven't looked at it for many years, and playing a Monk.  It is a very powerful character.

 

I started with Human with STR 12, DEX 16, WIS 16, all other abilities 10.  Ability increases have been in Dexterity.  Feats so far have been (1) Dodge, Luck of Heroes, (3) Weapon Finesse, (6) Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, (9) Blind Fight, (12) Improved Critical: Unarmed Strike.  Skills have been Discipline, Heal, Listen, Persuade, Tumble.

 

(I took Heal to use Healing Kits in combat without provoking attacks of opportunity.  However, I think that using them leaves me flat-footed, which is very bad.  So if I had it to do over again, I'd take something besides Heal.)

 

Right now I'm at level 14.  Throughout the game, AC has been so high that even bosses have trouble hitting.  I keep a stock of potions of Cat's Grace/Owl's Wisdom/Barkskin for the bosses, but in most cases that is overkill.  CON 10 has been fine; with the high AC I don't need the extra hit points, and the Monk's defensive feats make Fortitude saves an infrequent occurrence.

 

I went with fists rather than Kama to make use of Stunning Fist.  I haven't multi-classed, to maximize the DC on Stunning Fist and Diamond Soul.

 

My attack and damage are quite sufficient without adding in Fighter levels.  I don't think it worthwhile to dilute Diamond Soul, which has had a huge impact.  Though I carry Tomi around as a henchman, to detect traps and such, he is more of a liability than a help in combat, and gets a Stand Your Ground whenever I spot a tough looking enemy.

 

The only problem with the character is that Monk Speed is often more of a curse than a blessing.  I have to be careful not to outrun Tomi's range for detecting traps.  At one point I dumped Tomi to bring along Sharwyn, but it was too easy to run out of her Bard Song radius when battle starts.  (i don't want henchman who are going to fight in melee- my Monk is such a good tanking character that I don't want henchmen unnecessarily drawing attacks away from me.)

[AndrueD]

This is a late reply, probably too late to be helpful to the original poster.  But I am playing through the OC now after haven't looked at it for many years, and playing a Monk.  It is a very powerful character.

Still on list so still help anyone. Posting is good.

I started with Human with STR 12, DEX 16, WIS 16, all other abilities 10.  Ability increases have been in Dexterity.  Feats so far have been (1) Dodge, Luck of Heroes, (3) Weapon Finesse, (6) Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, (9) Blind Fight, (12) Improved Critical: Unarmed Strike.  Skills have been Discipline, Heal, Listen, Persuade, Tumble.

Only use Listen/Spot in module you know has NPCs that use stealth or else wasted skill.

(I took Heal to use Healing Kits in combat without provoking attacks of opportunity.  However, I think that using them leaves me flat-footed, which is very bad.  So if I had it to do over again, I'd take something besides Heal.)

Skill still better than pots in battle cuz pot cause AoOs and can heal hench w/o them stop attacking for round to get their own AoO.

Right now I'm at level 14.  Throughout the game, AC has been so high that even bosses have trouble hitting.  I keep a stock of potions of Cat's Grace/Owl's Wisdom/Barkskin for the bosses, but in most cases that is overkill.  CON 10 has been fine; with the high AC I don't need the extra hit points, and the Monk's defensive feats make Fortitude saves an infrequent occurrence.
 
I went with fists rather than Kama to make use of Stunning Fist.  I haven't multi-classed, to maximize the DC on Stunning Fist and Diamond Soul.

If nice gloves in module it good choice. Fist do better dmg to skels than kama anyway.

StF DC have nothing to do with class lvl. DC is for character lvl so if go fighter 4 lvls, DC the same and get higher APR. Owl pots help DC, too. Main reason taking monk/ftr4 is feats and extra APR, but like you say, not need for OC.

My attack and damage are quite sufficient without adding in Fighter levels.  I don't think it worthwhile to dilute Diamond Soul, which has had a huge impact.  Though I carry Tomi around as a henchman, to detect traps and such, he is more of a liability than a help in combat, and gets a Stand Your Ground whenever I spot a tough looking enemy.

Try install that TonyK Hench AI for next time. Work much better but prolly need install from new game. Dunno for sure. Can use hench inventory in OC if you want, too, but don't have to. Yah, monk SR is nice to have... very nice.

The only problem with the character is that Monk Speed is often more of a curse than a blessing.  I have to be careful not to outrun Tomi's range for detecting traps.  At one point I dumped Tomi to bring along Sharwyn, but it was too easy to run out of her Bard Song radius when battle starts.  (i don't want henchman who are going to fight in melee- my Monk is such a good tanking character that I don't want henchmen unnecessarily drawing attacks away from me.)

Yah, speed sometime hard to control. Easy way just do detect mode when have haste robe or boots. Then see traps pretty fast. Or put many point to Search so don't need so many rolls to see them. Think dice rolls per 6 secs not in detect but per 3 secs in detect plus distance when dice start to roll is double in detect so that what a fast monk need to see trap.

Maybe try Glinkle if toon good tank. He stay back far enough. But spend lot of his time buffing. Still, should try all for a little time just to see what work best with tanker monk. Some archer work but when  I play fast monk in OC I always lose Sharwyn and need to reload so she come back to me. 

Dex build good for monk cuz when it see Mestil or Element sheath can switch to sling with high AB still. No monk APR with sling but also no dying from hitting too much acid dmg in one round. Or just wait til dmg shield expire if you will wait around.  Slaad make bad Mestil dmg usually.

[Mystery X]

Only use Listen/Spot in module you know has NPCs that use stealth or else wasted skill.

 

I went with Listen because, according to the Wiki, a character who hears an enemy and has Blind Fight will not be caught flat-footed by a hidden melee attacker.  I don't know whether it is actually helping or not.

 

Try install that TonyK Hench AI for next time. Work much better but prolly need install from new game. Dunno for sure. Can use hench inventory in OC if you want, too, but don't have to.

 

Despite the fact that the henchman AI for the OC is awful and annoying, I wouldn't upgrade it with a mod.  A combat-competent henchman would make the OC too easy.  The ability to equip a henchman would make it way too easy.  Plus I view it as something of a challenge to figure out ways to keep Tomi alive despite the AI.

[MagicalMaster]

(I took Heal to use Healing Kits in combat without provoking attacks of opportunity.  However, I think that using them leaves me flat-footed, which is very bad.  So if I had it to do over again, I'd take something besides Heal.)

It doesn't leave you flat-footed. It totally does leave you flat footed, just doesn't break Stealth or trigger and AoO. Whether Heal is useful entirely depends on the module -- the more healing available, the less valuable it is. In the OC you'll be swimming in full Heal potions (always heals to max HP) in Chapter 2 and beyond at a minimum so the Heal skill isn't so great. But in modules that have more limited potions and cash, it can be extremely efficient in terms of cost of healing AND in terms of healing per round.
 

CON 10 has been fine; with the high AC I don't need the extra hit points, and the Monk's defensive feats make Fortitude saves an infrequent occurrence.

Yeah, past the first few levels Con has severely diminishing benefits in most modules, especially since most healing is either a flat amount (so more raw HP doesn't mean much) or is massively plentiful (so you can freely splurge healing supplies).
 

The only problem with the character is that Monk Speed is often more of a curse than a blessing.  I have to be careful not to outrun Tomi's range for detecting traps.  At one point I dumped Tomi to bring along Sharwyn, but it was too easy to run out of her Bard Song radius when battle starts.  (i don't want henchman who are going to fight in melee- my Monk is such a good tanking character that I don't want henchmen unnecessarily drawing attacks away from me.)

You can tell them to use ranged weapons all the time via dialogue, which will help keep them out of melee.

[AndrueD]

Despite the fact that the henchman AI for the OC is awful and annoying, I wouldn't upgrade it with a mod.  A combat-competent henchman would make the OC too easy.  The ability to equip a henchman would make it way too easy.  Plus I view it as something of a challenge to figure out ways to keep Tomi alive despite the AI.

Yah, the gear is fine way it is. But if you try using caster or singer, it almost impossible to get them to follow leader's plan in OC so the convo menu like HotU make it not so "awful and annoying". Melee hench easy to control mostly. So it just a choice. Lots like the way the tweak make their play time more controlled instead of chaos. Makes no matter for my playing cuz my toon alway solo for max XP on highest diff

[Mystery X]

You can tell them to use ranged weapons all the time via dialogue, which will help keep them out of melee.

 

Tomi frequently runs into melee range despite using his bow.  If he doesn't have perfect line of sight on a target, he will run right up to it.  He will choose targets he knows are there but doesn't have a line of sight.  If a target moves a little he may run up to it.  If he moves to get into range, he will not stop at the edge of range, but move right up to his target.  And there are times when he runs up beside my character during combat for reasons I can't figure out.  Add to that that enemies will randomly disengage from my character to run and attack Tomi, and he has no switch-to-melee AI and no Point Blank feat.

[Mystery X]

It doesn't leave you flat-footed. Whether Heal is useful entirely depends on the module -- the more healing available, the less valuable it is. In the OC you'll be swimming in full Heal potions (always heals to max HP) in Chapter 2 and beyond at a minimum so the Heal skill isn't so great. But in modules that have more limited potions and cash, it can be extremely efficient in terms of cost of healing AND in terms of healing per round.

 

Early in the game, I faced enemies who were visible and directly in front of me who suddenly started getting off sneak attacks, and hitting a lot, whenever I used a healing kit.  The only explanation that came to mind is that I must have suddenly become flat-footed.

 

ETA: I just tested it.  With an AC of 40, I used a healing kit in battle, I was hit twice on rolls of 36 and 26 from an enemy.  I'd be effectively AC 23 flat-footed.

[MagicalMaster]

Well I'll be damned. It doesn't break Stealth or provoke an Attack of Opportunity but it does in fact leave you flat footed. That definitely makes it look worse given that a potion doesn't leave you flat footed and the Mobility 4 AC applies to it...

[Empyre65]

Despite the fact that the henchman AI for the OC is awful and annoying, I wouldn't upgrade it with a mod.  A combat-competent henchman would make the OC too easy.  The ability to equip a henchman would make it way too easy.  Plus I view it as something of a challenge to figure out ways to keep Tomi alive despite the AI.

I've never used it myself, but as I understand it, TonyK's AI makes your enemies smarter, too, so it makes the game harder, not easier.