390 réponses à ce sujet

[The Dank Warden]

why bother with the inquisitor when you have SANDAL!, jk, btw  this is going to turn like one of those HoF posts...

[almasy87]

I also keep reading that everywhere about Hawke, but don't have or don't know of a source to confirm it If anyone does I'd be happy to have a link

But I hope it's true. It means they once considered the possibility of a returning character, and maybe would be willing to consider it once more...

 

[AresKeith]

Another problem I have with the introduction of a new protagonist is that there are already too many legendary, god-like heroes running around at the same time. Why would a random slave/goatherder/whatever need to rise up to that legendary status when you already have the inquisitor still alive, informed of the situation, personally connected, an with previous experience saving the world from crazy ancient wizards? New protagonists work better when separated by time or when the story is smaller scale and important to that specific character. Ex: previous protagonists would have little reason to get involved with a slave uprising in Tevinter but a new protagonist who starts as a Tevinter slave fits that story much better.

 

The Inquisitor can potentially be the only one of those still alive, and your also operating on the assumption that the story will solely be about Solas'. We have zero idea what direction Bioware is going in the next game with Tevinter

[ComedicSociopathy]

The Inquisitor can potentially be the only one of those still alive, and your also operating on the assumption that the story will solely be about Solas'. We have zero idea what direction Bioware is going in the next game with Tevinter

 

Grey Warden Civil War, the return of the griffons, the Tevinter-Qunari War, Valta and the Titans, the origins of the Qunari, Dorian and his new political faction, Sandal.

 

There's a lot of stuff going on beside Solas and all his shenanigans. 

[AresKeith]

Grey Warden Civil War, the return of the griffons, the Tevinter-Qunari War, Valta and the Titans, the origins of the Qunari, Dorian and his new political faction, Sandal.

 

There's a lot of stuff going on beside Solas and all his shenanigans. 

 

And some of those might even come to play until the game after next lol

[sniper_arrow]

Grey Warden Civil War, the return of the griffons, the Tevinter-Qunari War, Valta and the Titans, the origins of the Qunari, Dorian and his new political faction, Sandal.

 

There's a lot of stuff going on beside Solas and all his shenanigans. 

 

We'll have to wait for Magekiller first to see if there will be any new plotlines for DA4.

 

By the way, did Bioware announce any new novels aside from Gaider writing Fenris?

[Nefla]

The Inquisitor can potentially be the only one of those still alive, and your also operating on the assumption that the story will solely be about Solas'. We have zero idea what direction Bioware is going in the next game with Tevinter

I don't think the story will be exclusively about Solas, but I do think that Solas will be the main antagonist and the game will be about finding ways to stop him. Anyway even if you chose to kill both the Warden and Hawke, it's still too many legendary, Earth shattering heroes in too short of a time period. BioWare has said they want DA to be about Thedas but if that's the case, they should be doing smaller scale stories in varied locations with different cultures and make each game personal to that area/culture/etc...that way we can actually learn more about Thedas with each game. They had the opportunity to do so with DA4. The ancient evil guy trying to destroy the world was defeated, the next game could have been about something more interesting but they just had to set Solas up as the next ancient evil guy trying to destroy the world.

 

You're right that we don't know what direction DA4 will take, all we can do is speculate and talk about what we wish would happen. Based on BW's last couple games, my hopes are not high but maybe with Patrick Weekes as lead writer things will be different.

[vbibbi]

I really hope most of those are addressed in the next game and not shuffled off until DA5.

[AresKeith]

I really hope most of those are addressed in the next game and not shuffled off until DA5.

 

Only ones I don't really see happening is the Grey Wardens, and the Valta/Titans 

[ESTAQ99]

I also keep reading that everywhere about Hawke, but don't have or don't know of a source to confirm it If anyone does I'd be happy to have a link

But I hope it's true. It means they once considered the possibility of a returning character, and maybe would be willing to consider it once more...

 

 

Do you mean Hawke returning as the protagonist for DA4!?

 

HO-HOOO!!!! HOORAY!!! Yeeaaah!!!!! YAAAY!!!!

[In Exile]

I don't think the story will be exclusively about Solas, but I do think that Solas will be the main antagonist and the game will be about finding ways to stop him. Anyway even if you chose to kill both the Warden and Hawke, it's still too many legendary, Earth shattering heroes in too short of a time period. BioWare has said they want DA to be about Thedas but if that's the case, they should be doing smaller scale stories in varied locations with different cultures and make each game personal to that area/culture/etc...that way we can actually learn more about Thedas with each game. They had the opportunity to do so with DA4. The ancient evil guy trying to destroy the world was defeated, the next game could have been about something more interesting but they just had to set Solas up as the next ancient evil guy trying to destroy the world.

 

You're right that we don't know what direction DA4 will take, all we can do is speculate and talk about what we wish would happen. Based on BW's last couple games, my hopes are not high but maybe with Patrick Weekes as lead writer things will be different.

 

I think you misunderstand how DA:I is about Thedas. It's not about telling stories in the world. It's about that world, and why it is the way it is (i.e., why there is a Veil, or Blights, etc.). 

[vbibbi]

Only ones I don't really see happening is the Grey Wardens, and the Valta/Titans

I think that the Titan plot line needs to be interwoven with the Enuvaris plot line, since they seem to be contemporaries and deal with forgotten ancient powers which could change modern dwarves/elves forever. Whether this also involves Solas or whether he is the precursor to the Enuvaris plot, I don't know.

And I can definitely see the GW plot being a separate game than Tevinter. The only problem is, it's now been hinted to since DAA with no payout. Plus if Hawke survives, s/he returns from Weisshaupt in the Trespasser epilogue, so I honk there needs to be some context for how they survived or what happened between the span of them leaving Adamant and returning to Kirkwall.

Of course, I wouldn't be shocked if the GW plot is just totally ignored in the next game. I still want to know what happened to Nate and Sigrun (and I guess Oghren and Velanna).

[Nefla]

I think you misunderstand how DA:I is about Thedas. It's not about telling stories in the world. It's about that world, and why it is the way it is (i.e., why there is a Veil, or Blights, etc.). 

I understand just fine, it seems you misunderstood my post though. DA:O did a great job of introducing us to the world of Thedas. We learned about the blight, the chantry, Orzammar and the deep roads, the mage circles and templars, the dalish, the role of elves in society, the fade and the dangers of magic, etc...It was fantastic IMO and all that lore and history got me so invested in the world. In subsequent games however (DA:A, DA2 and DA:I) we learned hardly anything new and the world to me became generic, the focus 100% on the characters and whatever (usually boring thing) they were doing and the world and lore building fell by the wayside. One of the reasons I loved Trespasser was because it started to introduce more new and interesting lore.

 

Anyway, if the series were actually about Thedas, then it wouldn't matter if the same protagonist was featured in two games again(it happened with DA:O and DA:A already).

[AresKeith]

I understand just fine, it seems you misunderstood my post though. DA:O did a great job of introducing us to the world of Thedas. We learned about the blight, the chantry, Orzammar and the deep roads, the mage circles and templars, the dalish, the role of elves in society, the fade and the dangers of magic, etc...It was fantastic IMO and all that lore and history got me so invested in the world. In subsequent games however (DA:A, DA2 and DA:I) we learned hardly anything new and the world to me became generic, the focus 100% on the characters and whatever (usually boring thing) they were doing and the world and lore building fell by the wayside. One of the reasons I loved Trespasser was because it started to introduce more new and interesting lore.

 

Anyway, if the series were actually about Thedas, then it wouldn't matter if the same protagonist was featured in two games again(it happened with DA:O and DA:A already).

 

We learned hardly anything new in DAI? 

[robertthebard]

Another problem I have with the introduction of a new protagonist is that there are already too many legendary, god-like heroes running around at the same time. Why would a random slave/goatherder/whatever need to rise up to that legendary status when you already have the inquisitor still alive, informed of the situation, personally connected, an with previous experience saving the world from crazy ancient wizards? New protagonists work better when separated by time or when the story is smaller scale and important to that specific character. Ex: previous protagonists would have little reason to get involved with a slave uprising in Tevinter but a new protagonist who starts as a Tevinter slave fits that story much better.

The part that I bolded here? It works both ways. Just as you think you know everything there is to know about Solas and his plans, he knows everything about you, and how you operate. Your mission to save the world will end with you as a statue, just as it did with the Qunari at the Tresspasser. This is exactly why the inner circle stated that they couldn't be the ones to go after him, but would have to get others to do it. So I guess, the answer to your question is, quite simply, they want to succeed.

[NKnight7]

One reason why I like DA so much is because of the new protagonist every game. It's interesting for me at least to see their progression and become the 'hero' or victor of the story by the end. I'd love for the Inquisitor to come back in the fourth game, maybe in some kind of mentor role for the new protagonist.

[Nefla]

We learned hardly anything new in DAI? 

What substantial things did we learn about Thedas in DA:I that we hadn't already known from DA:O and the EU?

[RenAdaar]

I want  the inquisitor to back flip into the next game unannounced and kick solas in the balls.  

[Nefla]

I want  the inquisitor to back flip into the next game unannounced and kick solas in the balls.  

The inquisitor backflips onto the scene out of nowhere, roundhouse kicks Solas in the face which sends him flying across the room and then stomps on his crotch.

[BansheeOwnage]

Feeling kind of crappy, being kind of snappy. Sorry in advance 

 

 

One of the main reasons that the companions around the table talk about not being the ones to go after him is because he knows how they operate, he should, he was in the inner circle from the beginning. They should totally demonstrate that they weren't kidding about that, and there should be a short exposition about it just before it fades out, from Solas himself. It's amazing to me, well, not really, after all the Warden Tuesdays, how much people want to disregard things that are stated in game, unless they support, or, more accurately, seem to support what they want to believe. BioWare did everything but kill the character to demonstrate that they were done, and people still don't get it. So, I sincerely believe that they should kill the character in the prologue, to remove all doubt.

That was your interpretation. But I don't think it's logical. They could have easily written the Inquisitor out without killing them, and this wasn't the way to do it. People, including myself, have given ideas about how they could have had Trespasser play out almost exactly how it did without having the Inquisitor involved in any future content. So my impression certainly wasn't that they were writing them out.

 

The other thing, something I've said multiple times, is how the argument that "we need to find people Solas doesn't know" doesn't make much sense. People are taking too much out of that, because it's clear that the Inquisitor and some of their allies are still going to be the ones fighting him, from the shadows or otherwise. If him knowing you was some sort of instant-win button for Solas, the Inquisitor and friends wouldn't be the ones leading the Inquisition against him. They wouldn't even try. But it's not an instant-win button, that's a huge exaggeration. So they are going to try, disadvantage or no. It might make it harder to beat him, but nowhere near impossible. Again, if it was that big of a deal, they wouldn't be plotting in the basement.

 

Which is why I said it was your interpretation of the wording. My impression was that they simply meant they needed to restructure the Inquisition and get some new faces, not give up and ask some random would-be hero to do their job for them. Which also wouldn't make any sense. If the Inquisitor is the one giving orders, then it doesn't matter who's doing the leg-work. Solas knowing them is still a factor. If they're not giving orders and are also not doing the leg-work (playable), then they might as well not be there, so what's the point of all this?

 

If we're going by semantics, then the game specifically says the Inquisition, not the Inquisitor will stop Solas. Of course the Inquisitor would have a role in that, but it's not evidence that the Inquisitor will directly be responsible for stopping Solas.

 

I get the emotional response people feel about their Inquisitor after Trespasser and I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's emotions or connections to their characters or the story. I just feel that most of the arguments pro-Inquisitor are based more on attachment to them as PC rather than what rationally makes the most sense from a game designer's perspective when creating a new game. Yes, there are many ways around losing an arm and still being in combat. But is it really worth all of the extra resources spent implementing this, when it will only apply to the PC, not to all character models involved in game combat? And if we have multiple races as PC, it will be four or eight times the amount of resources in modeling the characters to use new game mechanics. I use the horrible PJs as evidence that this isn't great; the outfit was clearly designed for a human male and modified for female bodies and other races.

 

The amount of resources needed to move around all of the obstacles Bioware has set in place through Trespasser does not seem worth the payout.

1. If the intention was to have the Inquisition oppose Solas without the Inquisitor, why is it you have to be in charge of it no matter the ending? No, the Inquisitor and the Inquisition will fight him. This is stated outright.

 

2. Seriously? ...Seriously?... All of these people talking about how they were neutral about the Inquisitor or even disliked them, about how the connection between hero and villain shouldn't be wasted, and what you get out of it is that "most of the arguments pro-Inquisitor are based more on attachment to them as a PC rather than what rationally makes sense". Okay. Well, I should really stop here, because what you're getting out of what we've been saying for weeks is so skewed that I'm probably wasting my time at this point. But I'm stubborn.

 

This really isn't about emotional attachment to the Inquisitor, at least not to the point where people aren't thinking rationally about it as well. Sure, a lot of the people who want the Inquisitor back like them too, but their reasoning goes far beyond that. And there are also a lot of people who weren't overly fond of the Inquisitor, yet still want them to return for story reasons, not purely emotional ones (for the record, Quizzy is my least favourite protagonist of the 3).

 

3. What are you even trying to say? You're saying that it would extremely resource-intensive to have the Inquisitor in the game, just because of their missing arm, with nothing to back it up, or at least nothing I understood, despite people offering solutions Bioware could use to minimize resource cost, show that it wouldn't actually cost as many resources as you think, or simply encourage Bioware to stop being lazy when it comes to assets so they can make their game more immersive.

 

What specifically do you think would be so hard to achieve? Having 8 character-models? They already did that. And while I'm on about Bioware being lazy, they should really have a lot more than 8. Yes, the PJs sucked. You know why? They were lazy and made one model for the human male, and stretched it over everyone else, just like you said. I guess if your confidence in Bioware being able to properly pull-off a one-armed protagonist is low, I understand, but excusing them from trying because they'd need to step up their game doesn't make sense to me.

 

So they should try. This problem is nowhere near insurmountable. It's barely even a problem. The amount of resources they'd need to move around those supposed obstacles isn't nearly as high as you think. Even if it was, I think it's easily worth it. You don't sacrifice that story just so you don't have to make a few more models or animations.

 

 

And this may be somewhat assumptive on my part, but I got a feeling that more people care about Solas then the Inquisitor, and since were probably only going to directly interact with Solas a handful of times before the conclusion I think that DA4 will likely have the same issues that Inquisition did in that we'll have a somewhat generic PC whose only interesting narrative point is that their friend/lover turned into a supervillain.

 

Plus, female dwarves and qunari will have to use their crappy VA again for their characters which would just be awful. 

It's not about the Inquisitor or Solas, it's about the connection they have - together - whatever sort of connection that may be. If people just cared about Solas, they wouldn't care who the next protagonist was, since he'd be in either way.

 

Also, you know you can pick your voice, right? And I rather like Sumalee's voice and performance overall. *Shrug*

 

There's one problem with your position here: In my world state, the Inquisition did what it intended to do, and disbanded. There is no Inquisition to steer any where. There is nobody to lead something that doesn't exist any more. So here we are, a complete return to the Warden: I didn't kill my Warden, so my decision should be the only one respected. I'm having severe Deja Vu issues here.

You're wrong, twice. In no one's worldstate did the Inquisition do what it was intended to do. It was made to close the Breach, find those responsible, and restore order (with or without anyone's approval). Guess what? You only just now found who was responsible, and he's still very much at large. With that knowledge, you also know that order won't be sticking around for very long, so there's that too. At least you closed the Breach, right? Mission 1/3 accomplished. But hell, that might not stay closed long either! Ha.

 

And then you're wrong about disbanding. No Inquisition disbands, not fully. You only formally disband, but remain with smaller numbers as a shadow organization... because, you know, the Inquisition managed to figure out that its job wasn't over.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

I also keep seeing this thing that Hawke was meant to be the Inquisitor but was dropped for being too unpopular? Is that actually confirmed as true or urban myth? 

I'm honestly not sure if it was confirmed, but quite a few people came to the conclusion that it was likely planned at some point either way, myself included. The short story is it's just a feeling. We see ways in which it makes sense and things that point towards that being Bioware's intention. That Hawke was going to be the Shepard of Dragon Age, who would be in at least 2 games, probably a trilogy. DA2 was a great origin story, after all. It felt like Hawke was just getting started to me. The long story is an assembly of the exact reasons we think so.

[RenAdaar]

Having a character with a missing arm wouldn't be that hard actually. They could be given a prosthetic limb, Some of ironbulls concept art had him with a missing arm. 

 

 

[Nefla]

Having a character with a missing arm wouldn't be that hard actually. They could be given a prosthetic limb, Some of ironbulls concept art had him with a missing arm. 

Spoiler

 

 

Glorious See this is the kind of thing I'd want. Not a magically regrown arm (and definitely not the inquisitor being a helpless invalid after losing half of one arm) but a clever and cool attachment that could be different for each class while still having emotional impact and play into the story.

 

Feeling kind of crappy, being kind of snappy. Sorry in advance 

 

Spoiler

That was your interpretation. But I don't think it's logical. They could have easily written the Inquisitor out without killing them, and this wasn't the way to do it. People, including myself, have given ideas about how they could have had Trespasser play out almost exactly how it did without having the Inquisitor involved in any future content. So my impression certainly wasn't that they were writing them out.

 

The other thing, something I've said multiple times, is how the argument that "we need to find people Solas doesn't know" doesn't make much sense. People are taking too much out of that, because it's clear that the Inquisitor and some of their allies are still going to be the ones fighting him, from the shadows or otherwise. If him knowing you was some sort of instant-win button for Solas, the Inquisitor and friends wouldn't be the ones leading the Inquisition against him. They wouldn't even try. But it's not an instant-win button, that's a huge exaggeration. So they are going to try, disadvantage or no. It might make it harder to beat him, but nowhere near impossible. Again, if it was that big of a deal, they wouldn't be plotting in the basement.

 

Which is why I said it was your interpretation of the wording. My impression was that they simply meant they needed to restructure the Inquisition and get some new faces, not give up and ask some random would-be hero to do their job for them. Which also wouldn't make any sense. If the Inquisitor is the one giving orders, then it doesn't matter who's doing the leg-work. Solas knowing them is still a factor. If they're not giving orders and are also not doing the leg-work (playable), then they might as well not be there, so what's the point of all this?

 

1. If the intention was to have the Inquisition oppose Solas without the Inquisitor, why is it you have to be in charge of it no matter the ending? No, the Inquisitor and the Inquisition will fight him. This is stated outright.

 

2. Seriously? ...Seriously?... All of these people talking about how they were neutral about the Inquisitor or even disliked them, about how the connection between hero and villain shouldn't be wasted, and what you get out of it is that "most of the arguments pro-Inquisitor are based more on attachment to them as a PC rather than what rationally makes sense". Okay. Well, I should really stop here, because what you're getting out of what we've been saying for weeks is so skewed that I'm probably wasting my time at this point. But I'm stubborn.

 

This really isn't about emotional attachment to the Inquisitor, at least not to the point where people aren't thinking rationally about it as well. Sure, a lot of the people who want the Inquisitor back like them too, but their reasoning goes far beyond that. And there are also a lot of people who weren't overly fond of the Inquisitor, yet still want them to return for story reasons, not purely emotional ones (for the record, Quizzy is my least favourite protagonist of the 3).

 

3. What are you even trying to say? You're saying that it would extremely resource-intensive to have the Inquisitor in the game, just because of their missing arm, with nothing to back it up, or at least nothing I understood, despite people offering solutions Bioware could use to minimize resource cost, show that it wouldn't actually cost as many resources as you think, or simply encourage Bioware to stop being lazy when it comes to assets so they can make their game more immersive.

 

What specifically do you think would be so hard to achieve? Having 8 character-models? They already did that. And while I'm on about Bioware being lazy, they should really have a lot more than 8. Yes, the PJs sucked. You know why? They were lazy and made one model for the human male, and stretched it over everyone else, just like you said. I guess if your confidence in Bioware being able to properly pull-off a one-armed protagonist is low, I understand, but excusing them from trying because they'd need to step up their game doesn't make sense to me.

 

So they should try. This problem is nowhere near insurmountable. It's barely even a problem. The amount of resources they'd need to move around those supposed obstacles isn't nearly as high as you think. Even if it was, I think it's easily worth it. You don't sacrifice that story just so you don't have to make a few more models or animations.

 

It's not about the Inquisitor or Solas, it's about the connection they have - together - whatever sort of connection that may be. If people just cared about Solas, they wouldn't care who the next protagonist was, since he'd be in either way.

 

Also, you know you can pick your voice, right? And I rather like Sumalee's voice and performance overall. *shrug*

 

You're wrong, twice. In no one's worldstate did the Inquisition do what it was intended to do. It was made to close the Breach, find those responsible, and restore order (with or without anyone's approval). Guess what? You only just now found who was responsible, and he's still very much at large. With that knowledge, you also know that order won't be sticking around for very long, so there's that too. At least you closed the Breach, right? Mission 1/3 accomplished. But hell, that might not stay closed long either! Ha.

 

And then you're wrong about disbanding. No Inquisition disbands, not fully. You only formally disband, but remain with smaller numbers as a shadow organization... because, you know, the Inquisition managed to figure out that its job wasn't over.

I like this human, she understands!

[Abyss108]

Can one of the people arguing that Solas can predict the Inquisitor and thus the Inquisitor can't be the protagonist, actually post some evidence of this? An example of where Solas correctly predicted something the Inquisitor did? Something unique that a different protagonist wouldn't have done (otherwise it doesn't make sense to argue a new protagonist would be any better...).

 

Last I checked, Solas repeatedly tells you throughout the entire game that you surprise him and are not what he expects. 

 

Whilst I disagree with all the arguments against the Inquisitor, I can understand the logic of where they come from. Just not this one. 

[demonicdivas]

I'm honestly not sure if it was confirmed, but quite a few people came to the conclusion that it was likely planned at some point either way, myself included. The short story is it's just a feeling. We see ways in which it makes sense and things that point towards that being Bioware's intention. That Hawke was going to be the Shepard of Dragon Age, who would be in at least 2 games, probably a trilogy. DA2 was a great origin story, after all. It felt like Hawke was just getting started to me. The long story is an assembly of the exact reasons we think so.

 

Ah ok thank you - probably not something they would admit to as it does blow the whole 'we only use one protagonist per game' thing out of the water! But it does make sense  - Hawke's story ended so abruptly.

 

Can one of the people arguing that Solas can predict the Inquisitor and thus the Inquisitor can't be the protagonist, actually post some evidence of this? An example of where Solas correctly predicted something the Inquisitor did? Something unique that a different protagonist wouldn't have done (otherwise it doesn't make sense to argue a new protagonist would be any better...).

 

Last I checked, Solas repeatedly tells you throughout the entire game that you surprise him and are not what he expects. 

 

Whilst I disagree with all the arguments against the Inquisitor, I can understand the logic of where they come from. Just not this one. 

 

This is a really good point. I ranted earlier about that line from Leliana being the most stupid thing I've heard as a reason for the Inquisitor not to return and if that is the justification for the next game then I will not be buying it. Shoddy storytelling in the extreme. But your rationale is far better put 

 

why bother with the inquisitor when you have SANDAL!, jk, btw  this is going to turn like one of those HoF posts...

 

Except the Inquisitor and the HoF/DAO and DA:I cannot even be compared as the same type of characters/game. There is a legitimate, viable argument to return the Inquisitor given the way Trespasser ended that doesn't exist with the HoF - especially for those like me whose Wardens died. You don't get much more closure than that.