390 réponses à ce sujet

[vbibbi]

Feeling kind of crappy, being kind of snappy. Sorry in advance 

 

 

Spoiler

That was your interpretation. But I don't think it's logical. They could have easily written the Inquisitor out without killing them, and this wasn't the way to do it. People, including myself, have given ideas about how they could have had Trespasser play out almost exactly how it did without having the Inquisitor involved in any future content. So my impression certainly wasn't that they were writing them out.

 

The other thing, something I've said multiple times, is how the argument that "we need to find people Solas doesn't know" doesn't make much sense. People are taking too much out of that, because it's clear that the Inquisitor and some of their allies are still going to be the ones fighting him, from the shadows or otherwise. If him knowing you was some sort of instant-win button for Solas, the Inquisitor and friends wouldn't be the ones leading the Inquisition against him. They wouldn't even try. But it's not an instant-win button, that's a huge exaggeration. So they are going to try, disadvantage or no. It might make it harder to beat him, but nowhere near impossible. Again, if it was that big of a deal, they wouldn't be plotting in the basement.

 

Which is why I said it was your interpretation of the wording. My impression was that they simply meant they needed to restructure the Inquisition and get some new faces, not give up and ask some random would-be hero to do their job for them. Which also wouldn't make any sense. If the Inquisitor is the one giving orders, then it doesn't matter who's doing the leg-work. Solas knowing them is still a factor. If they're not giving orders and are also not doing the leg-work (playable), then they might as well not be there, so what's the point of all this?

 

1. If the intention was to have the Inquisition oppose Solas without the Inquisitor, why is it you have to be in charge of it no matter the ending? No, the Inquisitor and the Inquisition will fight him. This is stated outright.

 

2. Seriously? ...Seriously?... All of these people talking about how they were neutral about the Inquisitor or even disliked them, about how the connection between hero and villain shouldn't be wasted, and what you get out of it is that "most of the arguments pro-Inquisitor are based more on attachment to them as a PC rather than what rationally makes sense". Okay. Well, I should really stop here, because what you're getting out of what we've been saying for weeks is so skewed that I'm probably wasting my time at this point. But I'm stubborn.

 

This really isn't about emotional attachment to the Inquisitor, at least not to the point where people aren't thinking rationally about it as well. Sure, a lot of the people who want the Inquisitor back like them too, but their reasoning goes far beyond that. And there are also a lot of people who weren't overly fond of the Inquisitor, yet still want them to return for story reasons, not purely emotional ones (for the record, Quizzy is my least favourite protagonist of the 3).

 

3. What are you even trying to say? You're saying that it would extremely resource-intensive to have the Inquisitor in the game, just because of their missing arm, with nothing to back it up, or at least nothing I understood, despite people offering solutions Bioware could use to minimize resource cost, show that it wouldn't actually cost as many resources as you think, or simply encourage Bioware to stop being lazy when it comes to assets so they can make their game more immersive.

 

What specifically do you think would be so hard to achieve? Having 8 character-models? They already did that. And while I'm on about Bioware being lazy, they should really have a lot more than 8. Yes, the PJs sucked. You know why? They were lazy and made one model for the human male, and stretched it over everyone else, just like you said. I guess if your confidence in Bioware being able to properly pull-off a one-armed protagonist is low, I understand, but excusing them from trying because they'd need to step up their game doesn't make sense to me.

 

So they should try. This problem is nowhere near insurmountable. It's barely even a problem. The amount of resources they'd need to move around those supposed obstacles isn't nearly as high as you think. Even if it was, I think it's easily worth it. You don't sacrifice that story just so you don't have to make a few more models or animations.

 

It's not about the Inquisitor or Solas, it's about the connection they have - together - whatever sort of connection that may be. If people just cared about Solas, they wouldn't care who the next protagonist was, since he'd be in either way.

 

Also, you know you can pick your voice, right? And I rather like Sumalee's voice and performance overall. *shrug*

 

You're wrong, twice. In no one's worldstate did the Inquisition do what it was intended to do. It was made to close the Breach, find those responsible, and restore order (with or without anyone's approval). Guess what? You only just now found who was responsible, and he's still very much at large. With that knowledge, you also know that order won't be sticking around for very long, so there's that too. At least you closed the Breach, right? Mission 1/3 accomplished. But hell, that might not stay closed long either! Ha.

 

And then you're wrong about disbanding. No Inquisition disbands, not fully. You only formally disband, but remain with smaller numbers as a shadow organization... because, you know, the Inquisition managed to figure out that its job wasn't over.

Being snappy in reply. The last time we discussed this, you chose to ignore my detailed responses to your points, so I don't feel like responding to any of your latest points.

 

Can one of the people arguing that Solas can predict the Inquisitor and thus the Inquisitor can't be the protagonist, actually post some evidence of this? An example of where Solas correctly predicted something the Inquisitor did? Something unique that a different protagonist wouldn't have done (otherwise it doesn't make sense to argue a new protagonist would be any better...).

 

Last I checked, Solas repeatedly tells you throughout the entire game that you surprise him and are not what he expects. 

 

Whilst I disagree with all the arguments against the Inquisitor, I can understand the logic of where they come from. Just not this one. 

The entirety of Trespasser. Solas was the one who pushed the dying Qunari through the eluvian to the Winter Palace so that we would investigate. He says as much, knowing how we operate and that we would have to chase his trail. Also, he's had spies in the Inquisition for who knows how long, including the elven scout who caught the Qunari spy placing explosives around. Everything in that DLC is set up by Solas to have the Inquisitor stop the Qunari plot. That's the whole point of it.

 

And the Inquisitor, whether they romanced Solas, were friends with him, or not, don't guess his identity until the very end if they've found the right journals. Even seeing a mural of him removing valaslin from former slaves doesn't ring a bell to a romanced Lavellan.

[Abyss108]

 

The entirety of Trespasser. Solas was the one who pushed the dying Qunari through the eluvian to the Winter Palace so that we would investigate. He says as much, knowing how we operate and that we would have to chase his trail. Also, he's had spies in the Inquisition for who knows how long, including the elven scout who caught the Qunari spy placing explosives around. Everything in that DLC is set up by Solas to have the Inquisitor stop the Qunari plot. That's the whole point of it.

 

And the Inquisitor, whether they romanced Solas, were friends with him, or not, don't guess his identity until the very end if they've found the right journals. Even seeing a mural of him removing valaslin from former slaves doesn't ring a bell to a romanced Lavellan.

 

Yes the Inquisitor followed a dead body. I asked for something a different protagonist wouldn't have done. Every protagonist in every RPG ever made would follow a dead body. That's not a way Solas can uniquely manipulate the Inquisitor. The warden would have investigated, Hawke would have investigated, a new protagonist would have investigated.

 

Solas didn't tell the Inquisitor his identity, but that's not an action he predicted the Inquisitor made.

[vbibbi]

Yes the Inquisitor followed a dead body. I asked for something a different protagonist wouldn't have done. Every protagonist in every RPG ever made would follow a dead body. That's not a way Solas can uniquely manipulate the Inquisitor. The warden would have investigated, Hawke would have investigated, a new protagonist would have investigated.

 

Solas didn't tell the Inquisitor his identity, but that's not an action he predicted the Inquisitor made.

I don't know what to tell you. It seems that unless the game outright said "The Inquisitor is not going to be the next PC" you are going to make everything fit your theory. I think we're at a stalemate; everything I've seen indicates that it'll be a new PC, and everything that you've seen indicates the return of the Inquisitor.

[Iakus]

No thanks.  Commander Shepard has shown what can happen if you keep the same protagonist too long.

 

You get so weighed down by baggage from previous games the character can't function as your own anymore.

[Abyss108]

I don't know what to tell you. It seems that unless the game outright said "The Inquisitor is not going to be the next PC" you are going to make everything fit your theory. I think we're at a stalemate; everything I've seen indicates that it'll be a new PC, and everything that you've seen indicates the return of the Inquisitor.

 

Actually half of what I've seen indicates a return, half indicates a new protagonist. And I think Bioware did that on purpose.

 

It's just this one argument that Solas can predict the Inquisitor that makes no sense to me and I was wondering if I missed something.

[Nefla]

Can one of the people arguing that Solas can predict the Inquisitor and thus the Inquisitor can't be the protagonist, actually post some evidence of this? An example of where Solas correctly predicted something the Inquisitor did? Something unique that a different protagonist wouldn't have done (otherwise it doesn't make sense to argue a new protagonist would be any better...).

 

Last I checked, Solas repeatedly tells you throughout the entire game that you surprise him and are not what he expects. 

 

Whilst I disagree with all the arguments against the Inquisitor, I can understand the logic of where they come from. Just not this one. 

Solas has a horrible track record of being able to predict anything. He's full of himself and so sure that he's right but he just ends up screwing everything up again and again.

 

-"I'll make this veil to save my people from slavery!" (veil's creation kills most elves, utterly destroys their entire society, the survivor's are made tranquil in his eyes and enslaved anyway but by humans)

-"I'll give my super powerful magic orb to this evil ancient darkspawn, he'll die when he uses it. What could possibly go wrong?" (ancient evil darkspawn does not die and instead goes on a world killing rampage thanks to Solas' orb)

-"I'll take the veil back down because that will make everything better for the elves" (because that will totally work and not destroy the planet, release some kind of ancient evil ultra demon or something along those lines)

 

He's even constantly surprised by mundane things such as people other than himself not being complete morons or Cole not being vulnerable when made more "human-like".

 

The entirety of Trespasser. Solas was the one who pushed the dying Qunari through the eluvian to the Winter Palace so that we would investigate. He says as much, knowing how we operate and that we would have to chase his trail. Also, he's had spies in the Inquisition for who knows how long, including the elven scout who caught the Qunari spy placing explosives around. Everything in that DLC is set up by Solas to have the Inquisitor stop the Qunari plot. That's the whole point of it.

 

And the Inquisitor, whether they romanced Solas, were friends with him, or not, don't guess his identity until the very end if they've found the right journals. Even seeing a mural of him removing valaslin from former slaves doesn't ring a bell to a romanced Lavellan.

I'd say by the end of Trespasser the inquisitor knows Solas a lot more than Solas knows the inquisitor. Solas is blinded by pride and keeps making the same mistakes, The inquisitor has not yet had a chance to show what he can do on his own, what strategies he might personally come up with, etc...as the leader of the inquisition all the inquisitor did was listen to his advisors on where he should go and what he should do. When he's no longer this figurehead being constrained by decorum and politics, what is he capable of? What will he do? Solas has yet to show that he's some kind of master manipulator that would warrant the inquisitor and everyone Solas has spent time with to step down. Leaving a dead body and a blood trail does not show that he knows the inquisitor, like Abyss108 said, anyone would have done the same. If the inquisition hadn't been there, the palace guards would have investigated the body. If there had been no palace guards, a curious servant or even some kids might have followed the trail (how many stories have started off with something like that?). Solas wasn't even trying to hide the fact that he was shady as hell. He knew all these things that nobody should have known, and when asked about it such as when had he ever been to a palace ball his excuse is always "um...the fade?" Nobody guessed his true identity because why would anyone guess that about anyone? "Don't be coy Solas, I know you're the thousand year old traitorous god of my people!" lol

 

Saying Solas knows the inner workings of the inquisitor's mind and how he operates based on the fact that he left an obvious corpse and blood trail is like saying you know the inner workings of someone's mind because you stabbed them in the stomach and they went to the hospital so as not to die from it. Anyone would have the same reaction.

 

 

I don't know what to tell you. It seems that unless the game outright said "The Inquisitor is not going to be the next PC" you are going to make everything fit your theory. I think we're at a stalemate; everything I've seen indicates that it'll be a new PC, and everything that you've seen indicates the return of the Inquisitor.

If you're so sure of that, why come into threads like these and debate? If you think we're all a bunch of poor deluded dreamers then let us have our fun

[vbibbi]

Solas has a horrible track record of being able to predict anything. He's full of himself and so sure that he's right but he just ends up screwing everything up again and again.
 
-"I'll make this veil to save my people from slavery!" (veil's creation kills most elves, utterly destroys their entire society, the survivor's are made tranquil in his eyes)
-"I'll give my super powerful magic orb to this evil ancient darkspawn, he'll die when he uses it. What could possibly go wrong?" (ancient evil darkspawn does not die and instead goes on a world killing rampage thanks to Solas' orb)
-"I'll take the veil back down because that will make everything better for the elves" (because that will totally work and not destroy the planet, release some kind of ancient evil ultra demon or something along those lines)
 
He's even constantly surprised by mundane things such as people other than himself not being complete morons or Cole not being vulnerable when made more "human-like".
 
I'd say by the end of Trespasser the inquisitor knows Solas a lot more than Solas knows the inquisitor. Solas is blinded by pride and keeps making the same mistakes, The inquisitor has not yet had a chance to show what he can do on his own, what strategies he might personally come up with, etc...as the leader of the inquisition all the inquisitor did was listen to his advisors on where he should go and what he should do. When he's no longer this figurehead being constrained by decorum and politics, what is he capable of? What will he do? Solas has yet to show that he's some kind of master manipulator that would warrant the inquisitor and everyone Solas has spent time with to step down. Leaving a dead body and a blood trail does not show that he knows the inquisitor, like Abyss108 said, anyone would have done the same. If the inquisition hadn't been there, the palace guards would have investigated the body. If there had been no palace guards, a curious servant or even some kids might have followed the trail (how many stories have started off with something like that?). Solas wasn't even trying to hide the fact that he was shady as hell. He knew all these things that nobody should have known, and when asked about it such as when had he ever been to a palace ball his excuse is always "um...the fade?" Nobody guessed his true identity because why would anyone guess that about anyone? "Don't be coy Solas, I know you're the thousand year old traitorous god of my people!" lol
 
Saying Solas knows the inner workings of the inquisitor's mind and how he operates based on the fact that he left an obvious corpse and blood trail is like saying you know the inner workings of someone's mind because you stabbed them in the stomach and they went to the hospital so as not to die from it. Anyone would have the same reaction.

 I will say this: while I don't agree that the IQ knows more about Solas by the end of Trespasser than he knows about them, I can see how the time span between Trespasser and whenever DA4 begins will allow the Inquisitor to investigate him further. You're right in regards to his pride and short-sightedness. I think he has basically written off a non-romanced* Inquisitor at this point and will not be paying nearly as much attention to the Inquisition as it will be tracking and investigating him. I could see an Inquisitor searching for all historical records of the Dread Wolf, interviewing Dalish tribes, basically trying to learn as much as possible. Solas is so arrogant that he thinks there is no chance of being stopped, so he is okay revealing his basic plans to us.
 

*And for a romanced Inquisitor, he's probably keeping his distance anyway for fear of changing his mind or putting himself through unnecessary anguish.

 

 

ALSO another argument on Solas knowing how the Inquisitor will react: remember, by Trespasser he is gaining control of all extant eluvians. He's taken them away from Briala, and I'm not sure to what degree he is permitting the Qunari to use them in order to expose their plot to the Inquisition. In this manner, he is clearly directing which eluvians will activate and connect locations.

 

If you're so sure of that, why come into threads like these and debate? If you think we're all a bunch of poor deluded dreamers then let us have our fun

Because I enjoy ruining dreams?

[Abyss108]

Interesting that you specified unromanced Inquisitor's being written off by Solas. I felt he wrote off a romanced Lavallan even more than the normal Inquisitor. 

 

If you are a friend he tells you he would be happy if you proved him wrong, so I think he does see a very small chance of that happening. A romanced Lavellan just gets told "I will never forget you" - like she's already dead.

[vbibbi]

Interesting that you specified unromanced Inquisitor's being written off by Solas. I felt he wrote off a romanced Lavallan even more than the normal Inquisitor. 

 

If you are a friend he tells you he would be happy if you proved him wrong, so I think he does see a very small chance of that happening. A romanced Lavellan just gets told "I will never forget you" - like she's already dead.

But there's the epilogue slide where a wolf follows Lavellan in her dreams. So I think it's more that he intentionally distances himself from a romanced Lavellan because he knows how much it will hurt both of them, but can't help himself from checking up on her.

 

But for a friend, he's not as concerned if he encounters them again, as it wouldn't be as painful a reunion. And maybe he's trying to tell a romanced Lavellan to give up on him and live a good life while she has time; he doesn't want her to waste time on what he considers a futile effort of convincing him to stop his plans.

[demonicdivas]

 I will say this: while I don't agree that the IQ knows more about Solas by the end of Trespasser than he knows about them, I can see how the time span between Trespasser and whenever DA4 begins will allow the Inquisitor to investigate him further. You're right in regards to his pride and short-sightedness. I think he has basically written off a non-romanced* Inquisitor at this point and will not be paying nearly as much attention to the Inquisition as it will be tracking and investigating him. I could see an Inquisitor searching for all historical records of the Dread Wolf, interviewing Dalish tribes, basically trying to learn as much as possible. Solas is so arrogant that he thinks there is no chance of being stopped, so he is okay revealing his basic plans to us.
 

*And for a romanced Inquisitor, he's probably keeping his distance anyway for fear of changing his mind or putting himself through unnecessary anguish.

 

 

ALSO another argument on Solas knowing how the Inquisitor will react: remember, by Trespasser he is gaining control of all extant eluvians. He's taken them away from Briala, and I'm not sure to what degree he is permitting the Qunari to use them in order to expose their plot to the Inquisition. In this manner, he is clearly directing which eluvians will activate and connect locations.

 

Because I enjoy ruining dreams?

 

Interesting that you specified unromanced Inquisitor's being written off by Solas. I felt he wrote off a romanced Lavallan even more than the normal Inquisitor. 

 

If you are a friend he tells you he would be happy if you proved him wrong, so I think he does see a very small chance of that happening. A romanced Lavellan just gets told "I will never forget you" - like she's already dead.

 

But there's the epilogue slide where a wolf follows Lavellan in her dreams. So I think it's more that he intentionally distances himself from a romanced Lavellan because he knows how much it will hurt both of them, but can't help himself from checking up on her.

 

But for a friend, he's not as concerned if he encounters them again, as it wouldn't be as painful a reunion. And maybe he's trying to tell a romanced Lavellan to give up on him and live a good life while she has time; he doesn't want her to waste time on what he considers a futile effort of convincing him to stop his plans.

 

 

Doesn't alter the fact that there will be an army of furious Solmancers picketing outside Bioware's offices if they aren't given the chance to deal with Solas themselves    and not with the Inquisitor as an NPC. From the stuff I've read it seems Solas was the second most popular romance after Cullen and the two were pretty close together. You can hate the relationship element or love it, but that's quite a large portion of the fanbase for which the romance was an important part of their gameplay. I wouldn't blame them for getting angry if there is no meaningful closure in the next game (although the uncertainty and continued angst makes me glad my Inquisitor has her Commander husband rather than a wolf stalking her in her dreams!). 

 

Solas might have tried to let a romanced Inquisitor go but that doesn't mean the Inquisitor has let go of Solas. And the same can be said of any Inquisitor. One way or another, the Inquisitor is going after Solas whether he likes it or not. That was made very apparent at the end of Trespasser. The question remains how. And I'm back to my hope that it will be the Inquisitor and Bioware concentrate on consolidating the existing story and finishing it properly rather than rushing off and trying to make something half-baked and new, yet again when there's no real good reason to do so (from a plot perspective).

[Abyss108]

But there's the epilogue slide where a wolf follows Lavellan in her dreams. So I think it's more that he intentionally distances himself from a romanced Lavellan because he knows how much it will hurt both of them, but can't help himself from checking up on her.

 

But for a friend, he's not as concerned if he encounters them again, as it wouldn't be as painful a reunion. And maybe he's trying to tell a romanced Lavellan to give up on him and live a good life while she has time; he doesn't want her to waste time on what he considers a futile effort of convincing him to stop his plans.

 

Oh, I agree he's doing it on purpose because he cares for her, I just don't think his reasoning behind it really matters. At the end of a day, if you're his friend he takes into account that tiny chance he might be wrong and says he will treasure it if you succeed. He acknowledges what you are trying to do. If you are his semi-ex-girlfriend, he just assumes he will never see you again no matter how much you tell him you are going to get through this. Completely dismisses what you say.

 

It's a dick move, it doesn't matter if he's only doing it because he doesn't want to get hurt more. 

 

He's then just creepily stares at you in your dreams without talking for who knows how long... 

[BansheeOwnage]

Having a character with a missing arm wouldn't be that hard actually. They could be given a prosthetic limb, Some of ironbulls concept art had him with a missing arm.

 

Am I the only one who finds the little "or" between the cannonball and the rockets a little amusing? I mean, cannonballs and rockets... Not much difference between those... right? Could go either way!

 

Being snappy in reply. The last time we discussed this, you chose to ignore my detailed responses to your points, so I don't feel like responding to any of your latest points.

Fair enough. Honestly, I'm sorry I never responded to that. I actually have a fair bit of trouble writing and typing. I'm not sure why, but if I do it too long, and it doesn't take long, my hands start to... tense up. Feel uncomfortable. It must be mentally-induced since I don't think they're actually sore from over-use. It's weird and annoying, since I can have a lot to say

 

And part of it may have to do with how much I'll need to type. If I'm going to reply to a wall-of-text with another wall-of-text, it's daunting and my hands don't cooperate. I have to take breaks. It takes me a while to write most of my replies. I type fast enough, but I've also always had trouble translating my thoughts into words, and it almost never works as well as I hope. That's another reason I have trouble responding to walls-of-text. I have too many thoughts to get in order for a response. So sometimes I don't try. Not that anyone shouldn't write them on my account. Walls-of-text are fine.

 

Bleh. Random useless info about me. Maybe it will give context to some of my posts, or lack-thereof. Lacks-thereof? Moving on

 

Can one of the people arguing that Solas can predict the Inquisitor and thus the Inquisitor can't be the protagonist, actually post some evidence of this? An example of where Solas correctly predicted something the Inquisitor did? Something unique that a different protagonist wouldn't have done (otherwise it doesn't make sense to argue a new protagonist would be any better...).

 

Last I checked, Solas repeatedly tells you throughout the entire game that you surprise him and are not what he expects. 

 

Whilst I disagree with all the arguments against the Inquisitor, I can understand the logic of where they come from. Just not this one. 

Thanks for writing that, since I felt like more needed to be said than what I did on the topic. This is what I meant. That people are overestimating how much Solas knowing the Inquisitor really means in terms of advantages and disadvantages. Like you said, he keeps being surprised at how you operate. If you "disband" and run an Inquisition free of any oversight, well, you'll be a force to be reckoned with. Able to steer it wherever and however you like. That will make you even more unpredictable than he already thinks you are.

 

And then of course, you have the same advantage. You know him. Don't those mostly cancel each other out or something?

[vbibbi]

 

Fair enough. Honestly, I'm sorry I never responded to that. I actually have a fair bit of trouble writing and typing. I'm not sure why, but if I do it too long, and it doesn't take long, my hands start to... tense up. Feel uncomfortable. It must be mentally-induced since I don't think they're actually sore from over-use. It's weird and annoying, since I can have a lot to say

 

And part of it may have to do with how much I'll need to type. If I'm going to reply to a wall-of-text with another wall-of-text, it's daunting and my hands don't cooperate. I have to take breaks. It takes me a while to write most of my replies. I type fast enough, but I've also always had trouble translating my thoughts into words, and it almost never works as well as I hope. That's another reason I have trouble responding to walls-of-text. I have too many thoughts to get in order for a response. So sometimes I don't try. Not that anyone shouldn't write them on my account. Walls-of-text are fine.

 

Bleh. Random useless info about me. Maybe it will give context to some of my posts, or lack-thereof. Lacks-thereof? Moving on

I'm sorry to hear that, that sounds painful and annoying, especially for someone who posts online in their downtime. I hope you're able to find a way of mitigating that!

 

TBH though, I think most people discussing the issue, including myself, can only talk so much with no real information released about DA4 yet. And we're all talking in circles, hoping to convince others to our views or point out holes in logic. At this point, most people have their opinions, have interpreted Trespasser as they see it, and that's as far as we can go

 

People on the pro-Inquistor as PC side have brought up many good points, and from an emotional and narrative viewpoint as regards Solas, I can agree with a lot of what is being said. I don't think anyone is wrong in these discussions. It's just going to be a moot point until we have any further context. Heck, one side could end up correctly predicting how DA4 will turn out, but it could be poorly implemented and we all wish the other side had been right!

 

I am just going to need to wait and see how MEA turns out, and then wait for reviews on the eventual DA4. If both of those factors encourage me, I will buy the game regardless of if the PC is the Inquisitor or someone new.

[greenbrownblue]

No thanks.  Commander Shepard has shown what can happen if you keep the same protagonist too long.

 

You get so weighed down by baggage from previous games the character can't function as your own anymore.

Dude , I can understand that you do not want the Inquis to be the next DA's protagonist, but please DO NOT TALK BULL**** about Shepard. The trilogy would not make sense without Shepard being the protagonist.  ME2 got excellent rates and ME3 was equally good, except for the ending that fans hated.  And what was one of the reasons why it was so bad? OH YES, because Shep dies. DUUUH!
Moreover, If Shepard was not a success, her voice would not be in the Mass Effect Andromeda trailer. People miss her. Personally I had a really hard time getting over the fact that there is gonna be a new protag. And I am sure I was not the only one feeling that way. Best example: gamermd's Shepard farewell vid.

If not for that ridiculous ending, it would be awesome to be Shep once again. Definitely the best protag ever. LEGENDARY!

[greenbrownblue]

I'm sorry to hear that, that sounds painful and annoying, especially for someone who posts online in their downtime. I hope you're able to find a way of mitigating that!

 

TBH though, I think most people discussing the issue, including myself, can only talk so much with no real information released about DA4 yet. And we're all talking in circles, hoping to convince others to our views or point out holes in logic. At this point, most people have their opinions, have interpreted Trespasser as they see it, and that's as far as we can go

 

People on the pro-Inquistor as PC side have brought up many good points, and from an emotional and narrative viewpoint as regards Solas, I can agree with a lot of what is being said. I don't think anyone is wrong in these discussions. It's just going to be a moot point until we have any further context. Heck, one side could end up correctly predicting how DA4 will turn out, but it could be poorly implemented and we all wish the other side had been right!

 

I am just going to need to wait and see how MEA turns out, and then wait for reviews on the eventual DA4. If both of those factors encourage me, I will buy the game regardless of if the PC is the Inquisitor or someone new.

Yup, the whole point of this topic was not for people to debate, but to leave kind posts about wanting the Inquis to be the DA4's protagonist. I clearly stated that my message was not addressed to people who want a completely new protag. 

[greenbrownblue]

 

 

Doesn't alter the fact that there will be an army of furious Solmancers picketing outside Bioware's offices if they aren't given the chance to deal with Solas themselves    and not with the Inquisitor as an NPC. 

 

Lol, yup. If that #BringBackTheInquisitor does not result in at least an expansion with the Inquis, you know where to go, Solmancers! ^^

[robertthebard]

Feeling kind of crappy, being kind of snappy. Sorry in advance 
 
 
That was your interpretation. But I don't think it's logical. They could have easily written the Inquisitor out without killing them, and this wasn't the way to do it. People, including myself, have given ideas about how they could have had Trespasser play out almost exactly how it did without having the Inquisitor involved in any future content. So my impression certainly wasn't that they were writing them out.
 
The other thing, something I've said multiple times, is how the argument that "we need to find people Solas doesn't know" doesn't make much sense. People are taking too much out of that, because it's clear that the Inquisitor and some of their allies are still going to be the ones fighting him, from the shadows or otherwise. If him knowing you was some sort of instant-win button for Solas, the Inquisitor and friends wouldn't be the ones leading the Inquisition against him. They wouldn't even try. But it's not an instant-win button, that's a huge exaggeration. So they are going to try, disadvantage or no. It might make it harder to beat him, but nowhere near impossible. Again, if it was that big of a deal, they wouldn't be plotting in the basement.
 
Which is why I said it was your interpretation of the wording. My impression was that they simply meant they needed to restructure the Inquisition and get some new faces, not give up and ask some random would-be hero to do their job for them. Which also wouldn't make any sense. If the Inquisitor is the one giving orders, then it doesn't matter who's doing the leg-work. Solas knowing them is still a factor. If they're not giving orders and are also not doing the leg-work (playable), then they might as well not be there, so what's the point of all this?
 
1. If the intention was to have the Inquisition oppose Solas without the Inquisitor, why is it you have to be in charge of it no matter the ending? No, the Inquisitor and the Inquisition will fight him. This is stated outright.
 
2. Seriously? ...Seriously?... All of these people talking about how they were neutral about the Inquisitor or even disliked them, about how the connection between hero and villain shouldn't be wasted, and what you get out of it is that "most of the arguments pro-Inquisitor are based more on attachment to them as a PC rather than what rationally makes sense". Okay. Well, I should really stop here, because what you're getting out of what we've been saying for weeks is so skewed that I'm probably wasting my time at this point. But I'm stubborn.
 
This really isn't about emotional attachment to the Inquisitor, at least not to the point where people aren't thinking rationally about it as well. Sure, a lot of the people who want the Inquisitor back like them too, but their reasoning goes far beyond that. And there are also a lot of people who weren't overly fond of the Inquisitor, yet still want them to return for story reasons, not purely emotional ones (for the record, Quizzy is my least favourite protagonist of the 3).
 
3. What are you even trying to say? You're saying that it would extremely resource-intensive to have the Inquisitor in the game, just because of their missing arm, with nothing to back it up, or at least nothing I understood, despite people offering solutions Bioware could use to minimize resource cost, show that it wouldn't actually cost as many resources as you think, or simply encourage Bioware to stop being lazy when it comes to assets so they can make their game more immersive.
 
What specifically do you think would be so hard to achieve? Having 8 character-models? They already did that. And while I'm on about Bioware being lazy, they should really have a lot more than 8. Yes, the PJs sucked. You know why? They were lazy and made one model for the human male, and stretched it over everyone else, just like you said. I guess if your confidence in Bioware being able to properly pull-off a one-armed protagonist is low, I understand, but excusing them from trying because they'd need to step up their game doesn't make sense to me.
 
So they should try. This problem is nowhere near insurmountable. It's barely even a problem. The amount of resources they'd need to move around those supposed obstacles isn't nearly as high as you think. Even if it was, I think it's easily worth it. You don't sacrifice that story just so you don't have to make a few more models or animations.
 
It's not about the Inquisitor or Solas, it's about the connection they have - together - whatever sort of connection that may be. If people just cared about Solas, they wouldn't care who the next protagonist was, since he'd be in either way.
 
Also, you know you can pick your voice, right? And I rather like Sumalee's voice and performance overall. *Shrug*
 
You're wrong, twice. In no one's worldstate did the Inquisition do what it was intended to do. It was made to close the Breach, find those responsible, and restore order (with or without anyone's approval). Guess what? You only just now found who was responsible, and he's still very much at large. With that knowledge, you also know that order won't be sticking around for very long, so there's that too. At least you closed the Breach, right? Mission 1/3 accomplished. But hell, that might not stay closed long either! Ha.
 
And then you're wrong about disbanding. No Inquisition disbands, not fully. You only formally disband, but remain with smaller numbers as a shadow organization... because, you know, the Inquisition managed to figure out that its job wasn't over.

Well, that's a whole lot to go through, and splitting quotes will take too much time, so:

Yes, if you're heart is set on the Inquisitor as the next protagonist, you can interpret "We can't be the ones to go after him" as meaning "We'll go after him anyway". It's really not that open to interpretation, but I can understand it from a "I don't know how to let go" angle.

Check list for the Inquisition:

Close the Breach: Check, x2 even.

Find those responsible: Cory, and ultimately Solas. Check, ironically x2 as well.

Restore order: We've evidently restored enough order that the two major powers closest to us are now trying to either disband or leash us. So I'd say that's a big check as well. What other definition of order is there? We did, in fact close the breach, and deal with the one that opened it. We did, in fact, restore order by sealing rifts, closing the breach and dealing with the one that opened it. Those were the things we set out to do, and they were done. Again, I can understand the "but I don't want to let go" angle, but that doesn't change the facts, just how you, and anyone else that's dead set on the Inquisitor as the end all of PCs, feel about them. I've been through this before, and I'm not willing to rewrite the English language to include definitions for terms that reflect how people that can't let go of a protagonist feels. That is, however, what I would have to do in order to agree with the gist of your wall of text.

[Nefla]

What I want out of an Inquisitor led DA4:

 

I really want the inquisitor to acquire a double who stays in Orlais/Ferelden and pretends to do the same old political bowing and scraping, local problem solving, etc...that the real inquisitor had to do in DA:I. I want the real inquisitor to go undercover in Tevinter to find ways (and a new group of companions) to stop Solas. I want to beat Solas by having a brilliant strategy and outsmarting him, using his arrogance against him and maybe even manipulating him into ruining his own plan. I do NOT want to beat him through simple brute force or Solas and his people being hit with the stupid stick.

[Nefla]

Lol, yup. If that #BringBackTheInquisitor does not result in at least an expansion with the Inquis, you know where to go, Solmancers! ^^

Are Solas groin-kickers welcome at this gathering also?

[robertthebard]

Can one of the people arguing that Solas can predict the Inquisitor and thus the Inquisitor can't be the protagonist, actually post some evidence of this? An example of where Solas correctly predicted something the Inquisitor did? Something unique that a different protagonist wouldn't have done (otherwise it doesn't make sense to argue a new protagonist would be any better...).
 
Last I checked, Solas repeatedly tells you throughout the entire game that you surprise him and are not what he expects. 
 
Whilst I disagree with all the arguments against the Inquisitor, I can understand the logic of where they come from. Just not this one.

Were you not paying attention to what Solas had to say? Were you too busy going "but hunny, come home" to actually read/listen to what he was telling you? The Qunari and Solas had so many spies in the Inquisition that they literally, according to Solas, tripped over each other. This on top of being right there for all of your planning; did you think he wouldn't be studying you? Did you think he wouldn't be studying the entirety of the inner circle? Do you think that he wasn't paying attention to how you went about addressing issues? You were deluding yourself.

From the very beginning of the game, you have something that he wants, and yet, you believe he isn't going to try to get "inside your head" to figure a way to get it back? Did you play Tresspasser? Step out of "Woe is me, no Inquisitor" for a minute, and think about what he told you: He totally knew how you'd react to the Qunari invasion, and set it up so you'd come after them, and him, so he could get what he wanted. How's that for a one sentence summation of the plot of Tresspasser? He's such a master manipulator that he not only manipulated your Inquisitor, but he manipulated you, too. He blindsided you so hard with that plot that even out here in the real world, you can't see it, and can't understand that he could easily do it again. This is why they can't be the ones going after him, because he didn't get just a little bit inside their heads, he owns property there.

[Heimdall]

Actually half of what I've seen indicates a return, half indicates a new protagonist. And I think Bioware did that on purpose.

 

It's just this one argument that Solas can predict the Inquisitor that makes no sense to me and I was wondering if I missed something.

The problem is that Solas might very well be able to predict the inquisitor... but Bioware can't actually write a story like that because the Inquisitor is the PC and thus inherently variable.  That is why the dead Qunari plot seems like "something any protagonist would do".  It had to be, so they could fit all Inquisitors.  Solas was able to manipulate the Inquisitor though, and the Inquisitor is a known quantity to him.

 

While the Inquisitor and friends will continue to fight from the shadows, I suspect they would give the new PC more or less a free hand in how they handle things, only supporting them with resources and information.  In that way the new PC would have a chance to blindside Solas' operation while he still sees the Inquisitor as the primary threat.  (This is partly why I posit a dual protagonist approach, with a Geralt-Ciri like approach to the New PC-Inquisitor dynamic.  New PC is primary, but the Inquisitor has several important plot sequences)

[Heimdall]

Dude , I can understand that you do not want the Inquis to be the next DA's protagonist, but please DO NOT TALK BULL**** about Shepard. The trilogy would not make sense without Shepard being the protagonist.  ME2 got excellent rates and ME3 was equally good, except for the ending that fans hated.  And what was one of the reasons why it was so bad? OH YES, because Shep dies. DUUUH!
Moreover, If Shepard was not a success, her voice would not be in the Mass Effect Andromeda trailer. People miss her. Personally I had a really hard time getting over the fact that there is gonna be a new protag. And I am sure I was not the only one feeling that way. Best example: gamermd's Shepard farewell vid.

If not for that ridiculous ending, it would be awesome to be Shep once again. Definitely the best protag ever. LEGENDARY!

The trilogy wouldn't have made sense without Shepard, sure, but he has a valid point.  Carrying the same protagonist throughout made the mounting baggage of variable choices very difficult to deal with and reflect.  That's why they resorted to doing most of it with the war asset system in ME3.

[vbibbi]

The problem is that Solas might very well be able to predict the inquisitor... but Bioware can't actually write a story like that because the Inquisitor is the PC and thus inherently variable.  That is why the dead Qunari plot seems like "something any protagonist would do".  It had to be, so they could fit all Inquisitors.  Solas was able to manipulate the Inquisitor though, and the Inquisitor is a known quantity to him.
 
While the Inquisitor and friends will continue to fight from the shadows, I suspect they would give the new PC more or less a free hand in how they handle things, only supporting them with resources and information.  In that way the new PC would have a chance to blindside Solas' operation while he still sees the Inquisitor as the primary threat.  (This is partly why I posit a dual protagonist approach, with a Geralt-Ciri like approach to the New PC-Inquisitor dynamic.  New PC is primary, but the Inquisitor has several important plot sequences)

I want a spin off of "Inquisitor and friends," Muppet Baby style.

[Abyss108]

Were you not paying attention to what Solas had to say? Were you too busy going "but hunny, come home" to actually read/listen to what he was telling you? The Qunari and Solas had so many spies in the Inquisition that they literally, according to Solas, tripped over each other. This on top of being right there for all of your planning; did you think he wouldn't be studying you? Did you think he wouldn't be studying the entirety of the inner circle? Do you think that he wasn't paying attention to how you went about addressing issues? You were deluding yourself.

From the very beginning of the game, you have something that he wants, and yet, you believe he isn't going to try to get "inside your head" to figure a way to get it back? Did you play Tresspasser? Step out of "Woe is me, no Inquisitor" for a minute, and think about what he told you: He totally knew how you'd react to the Qunari invasion, and set it up so you'd come after them, and him, so he could get what he wanted. How's that for a one sentence summation of the plot of Tresspasser? He's such a master manipulator that he not only manipulated your Inquisitor, but he manipulated you, too. He blindsided you so hard with that plot that even out here in the real world, you can't see it, and can't understand that he could easily do it again. This is why they can't be the ones going after him, because he didn't get just a little bit inside their heads, he owns property there.

 

This is a lot or words to say "that dead body was masterful manipulation" which has already been said. If you have a way he manipulated the Inquisitor that wouldn't have worked for a different protagonist, please post it.

 

Also, your argument about him manipulating the player makes no sense in terms of a protagonist argument, because I'm pretty sure it's still gonna be the same player if we get a new character!

 

The only thing I agree with is that he wanted to get inside your head. He just completely failed.

 

The problem is that Solas might very well be able to predict the inquisitor... but Bioware can't actually write a story like that because the Inquisitor is the PC and thus inherently variable.  That is why the dead Qunari plot seems like "something any protagonist would do".  It had to be, so they could fit all Inquisitors.  Solas was able to manipulate the Inquisitor though, and the Inquisitor is a known quantity to him.

 

While the Inquisitor and friends will continue to fight from the shadows, I suspect they would give the new PC more or less a free hand in how they handle things, only supporting them with resources and information.  In that way the new PC would have a chance to blindside Solas' operation while he still sees the Inquisitor as the primary threat.  (This is partly why I posit a dual protagonist approach, with a Geralt-Ciri like approach to the New PC-Inquisitor dynamic.  New PC is primary, but the Inquisitor has several important plot sequences)

 

If Bioware can't write that story, then Bioware can't write that story. They can't just say "you know this thing that never happened once to your character? It totally happened. A ton". If I read a book, I don't expect the sequel to tell me the first book was wrong and I should just believe something completely different happened (unless its an unreliable narrator, or was an illusion, etc). 

 

But they could have written that story anyway. Bioware has forced choices before. They could have written something based off the choices you wrote in the main game. They could have written a multiple choice, but that whichever one you picked would change the plot so Solas was behind it.

 

What they can't do is "The Inquisitor is a super specially predictable protagonist because they followed a blood trail and killed the baddies at the end, unlike every other protagonist in every other RPG ever made. Wow, look at how amazing Solas is to know this!" 

[demonicdivas]

Well, that's a whole lot to go through, and splitting quotes will take too much time, so:

Yes, if you're heart is set on the Inquisitor as the next protagonist, you can interpret "We can't be the ones to go after him" as meaning "We'll go after him anyway". It's really not that open to interpretation, but I can understand it from a "I don't know how to let go" angle.

Check list for the Inquisition:

Close the Breach: Check, x2 even.

Find those responsible: Cory, and ultimately Solas. Check, ironically x2 as well.

Restore order: We've evidently restored enough order that the two major powers closest to us are now trying to either disband or leash us. So I'd say that's a big check as well. What other definition of order is there? We did, in fact close the breach, and deal with the one that opened it. We did, in fact, restore order by sealing rifts, closing the breach and dealing with the one that opened it. Those were the things we set out to do, and they were done. Again, I can understand the "but I don't want to let go" angle, but that doesn't change the facts, just how you, and anyone else that's dead set on the Inquisitor as the end all of PCs, feel about them. I've been through this before, and I'm not willing to rewrite the English language to include definitions for terms that reflect how people that can't let go of a protagonist feels. That is, however, what I would have to do in order to agree with the gist of your wall of text.

 

Were you not paying attention to what Solas had to say? Were you too busy going "but hunny, come home" to actually read/listen to what he was telling you? The Qunari and Solas had so many spies in the Inquisition that they literally, according to Solas, tripped over each other. This on top of being right there for all of your planning; did you think he wouldn't be studying you? Did you think he wouldn't be studying the entirety of the inner circle? Do you think that he wasn't paying attention to how you went about addressing issues? You were deluding yourself.

From the very beginning of the game, you have something that he wants, and yet, you believe he isn't going to try to get "inside your head" to figure a way to get it back? Did you play Tresspasser? Step out of "Woe is me, no Inquisitor" for a minute, and think about what he told you: He totally knew how you'd react to the Qunari invasion, and set it up so you'd come after them, and him, so he could get what he wanted. How's that for a one sentence summation of the plot of Tresspasser? He's such a master manipulator that he not only manipulated your Inquisitor, but he manipulated you, too. He blindsided you so hard with that plot that even out here in the real world, you can't see it, and can't understand that he could easily do it again. This is why they can't be the ones going after him, because he didn't get just a little bit inside their heads, he owns property there.

 

What utter rubbish. You're painting way too simplistic a picture of an incredibly complex character and relationship between him and the Inquisitor - probably one of the best Bioware have written.

 

Did you play Trespasser? Did you, indeed, play the entire game? If you'd forgotten, Solas, and the responses you receive, changes from the start of Inquisition to the end of  Trespasser depending on your approval rating for starters. If you have high approval he takes the mark away because he wants you to spend a few years in peace, revealed the Qunari plot from within the Inquisition ranks to save you as his friend, not just because he wants his magical green light back. Of course he knows your Inner Circle. He's been studying them for however many months it took whilst he was right there, in the Inquisition firsthand! So what's new in Trespasser? He's getting second-hand information? Big deal. And if you disband the Inquisition, that becomes a moot point anyway.

 

And yes, I've sat through every single YouTube video with every single outcome - Solas is deeply conflicted if you have a high approval rating and even wants to be proven wrong? Who's going to do that then? Some random who he doesn't know? You as the Inquisitor alone hold that power. 

 

Even if you hate Solas that much, you're seriously suggesting an Inquisitor with a low approval rating wouldn't want to be sure they'd removed the threat that is Solas once and for all in person? Really?? With all the knowledge they have now? And he won't manipulate an entirely new character? Who doesn't know diddly squat about Solas or how he functions and could spend half the game running around the open world of Tevinter like a headless chicken - just as Solas intends - making no headway whatsoever aside from picking elfroot for the herb garden, getting his/her mind bent at the same time? And Solas is not going to figure out this superhero protagonist until the end of the game and go 'oh no how foolish of me to have missed who you were' as you chop his head off?

 

As for your very last paragraph, it doesn't even make sense. Aside from the fact that you're dismissing Solas is a megalomaniac psychopath with the emotional empathy of a nug. 

 

Oh as for your check list - you haven't actually found Solas. He wandered off into an eluvian whilst your arm was disintegrating. That's quite a large omission in the list of finding those responsible. 

 

Restoring order - with Tevinter and the Qunari going to war with each other and the potential for destabilaisation across Thedas as a result? The world is hardly at order, is it? 

 

Why will the Inquisitor be manipulated again? Is the Inquisitor, along with the combined brainpower of the Inquisition, stupid? You managed to outsmart an ancient magister, in a way that felt all too easy, who caused the Blight and turned the Golden City Black. Corypheus arguably had almost as much power, and certainly matched the intelligence and arrogance of Solas. So what, you can't do the same again? 

 

I too favour the dual protagonist approach as a good way to end the role of Inquisitor by the end of the next game (although I'd prefer a 50-50 split) as well as having my Inquisitor as sole protagonist. Either works for me. I'll put my faith in Bioware's ability to build on their characters in a meaningful way and take on board the feedback from both sides of the fanbase as they've frequently shown they can do. If they come up with a plot, however, that puts the Inquisitor/new protagonist in such a passive role and treated like idiots as we were in Trespasser then that's a different story entirely.

 

They already knew way back anyway where they were going with this before they released Inquisition so it is pure conjecture. There's plenty of space for healthy, engaged debate on both sides and I can understand the arguments for having a new protag too - I just think the ones for our Inquisitor are stronger. Yet why you should vilify those of us who want our Inquisitors to return I have absolutely no idea.