99 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

Also I really hope they put a character in with multiple personalities and one of the personalities becomes an actual person. I would also wouldn't mind a character with randomly half frosted pinkish hair or something.

 

Or like imagine if Boo from Baldur's Gate was transformed into an enormous sentient hamster with a sharp british accent and an addiction to decorum? Can you imagine Boo on the Normandy, recanting the great Hamster purge of 2192 and the fact that it was perpetutated in such poor taste and respect for etiquette?

 

Where's the whimsy Bioware schnikes...

[The Real Pearl #2]

That headcannon.

 

 

Also toothbrush > swords > guns.

Can you like? not? also Space cancer again, Also cutscenes with kai leng are just showcases of his damn plot Armour.

[SentinelMacDeath]

ME2 is really the only game in the series where we get the Cartoon Squad of Ultimate Badasses. How Kaidan even registered at all here jiggers the imagination. He's a low-key, beer-loving Canadian. If not for his biotic power, he'd just be that guy you pass by at a mall in Vancouver. 

 

If you mean "pass" as me staring open mouthed, drooling all over the floor and finding reasons to stalk him throughout the mall until he leaves then yes, by all means he's just the guy you pass at the mall in Vancouver. By the maker he's fine. He's so fine. 

[Dantriges]

That headcannon.

Also toothbrush > swords > guns.

 

Yeah, seems guns are melee range weapons in ME which go pop pop, because everyone engages at point blank range with them. I´m so tired of these scenes where the guy with the gun comes from behind you and closes into arm´s length. Add in some groan points for the guy threatened making a badass face* or saying a witty oneliner before turning around.

 

*or rather looking like they need to go to the bathroom in a hurry.

[Kabooooom]

And if he had a good breakfast of cereal.

Kai Leng is the coolest bad guy ever. He doesn't give a **** that swords are obsolete in a world where you can accelerate pieces of metal the size of a grain of sand to a fraction of the speed of light and shoot them at people. He doesn't care that he has cyborg legs and his knees got all f'd up by Anderson. He still roundhouse kicks with the best of them. He doesn't care about proper skycar safety regulations. He'll ride on the hood, no seat belt for him.

Long live Kai Leng.

[Seraphim24]

Yeah, Super MAC has yet to learn this lesson.

 

I'm not sure who Super MAC is to be honest... but it sounds like you kind of agree with me so that's cool

[Seraphim24]

As usual, I have no idea what the actual complaint here is. Who's creepy? Who's weird? What's a good example of "hateful" humor?

 

Well like your comment for instance, it's unnecessarily insistent on specifics and details, there isn't this faint sense of whimsy and willingness to treat things more abstractly or broadly as Vorcha or Arcian has, it's unnecessarily and overly fixative.

 

Moreover, you don't voluntarily offer anything yourself, you don't whimsically jump into the discussion carefree, there has to be this exact specification and have all these needs required and satisfied before you move or do anything, which is contrary to the idea of proactive fun space adventures with cool characters.

[straykat]

ME2 is really the only game in the series where we get the Cartoon Squad of Ultimate Badasses. How Kaidan even registered at all here jiggers the imagination. He's a low-key, beer-loving Canadian. If not for his biotic power, he'd just be that guy you pass by at a mall in Vancouver. 

 

Cartoon Squad of Ultimate Badasses is all I cared about.

 

To hell with a Space Simulation or military story. Give me Best Assassin, Best Dirty Cop, Best Scientist, Best Krogan, Best Biotic, Best Engineer, Best Geth... Preferably wearing Tights. And let me kill fools by making them choke on their own poison.

 

They also had a good soundtrack.

 

[SentinelMacDeath]

Tights? More Tights plz! 

 

[GoldenGail3]

But.. I love Kaidan. Don't hate on him, he's like the Alistair of the ME unverse (or at least in my oponion he is......)

[straykat]

Kaidan's cool. If I had to pick a fairly toned down character, he's my choice. Notice I didn't mention Jacob in my ME2 fanbom above.. he fills the same sort of role. But he's just not that interesting.

[Seraphim24]

Kaidan's cool. If I had to pick a fairly toned down character, he's my choice. Notice I didn't mention Jacob in my ME2 fanbom above.. he fills the same sort of role. But he's just not that interesting.

 

Jacob was yeah slightly more boring, just not as funny and stuff, but I don't think any of the ME2 characters compared really, Miranda made clear from the get-go we were in uptight land.

[O'Voutie O'Rooney]

I am not sure what the OP is getting at exactly. If the point is that characters get to be cartoonishly edgy and laden with shock value, then I agree. I actually liked Kaiden in the first ME, even though I never saved him. I liked Jacob also in ME2. There is a fine line between making characters realistic but highly skilled vs. comic book superhero cartoon caricatures of what is believable. I prefer the first, but realize that this is intrinsically difficult in a game setting where there are things like omniblades, biotic powers, mass effect fields, and gigantic squid machines. I think that all entertainment tends to become self-caricature after a while, and there were examples of this that seemed to get more so as the series progressed.

[Seraphim24]

I am not sure what the OP is getting at exactly. If the point is that characters get to be cartoonishly edgy and laden with shock value, then I agree. I actually liked Kaiden in the first ME, even though I never saved him. I liked Jacob also in ME2. There is a fine line between making characters realistic but highly skilled vs. comic book superhero cartoon caricatures of what is believable. I prefer the first, but realize that this is intrinsically difficult in a game setting where there are things like omniblades, biotic powers, mass effect fields, and gigantic squid machines. I think that all entertainment tends to become self-caricature after a while, and there were examples of this that seemed to get more so as the series progressed.

 

For someone claiming not to be getting it, you pretty much got it.

[Seraphim24]

Tights? More Tights plz! 

 

 

That's a good one too!

[straykat]

Jacob was yeah slightly more boring, just not as funny and stuff, but I don't think any of the ME2 characters compared really, Miranda made clear from the get-go we were in uptight land.

 

And yet I know a Miranda (more than one). And a Jack. I might have even been a little bit like Jack once.

 

There's a kernel of truth in these characters, despite the loudness.

 

 

In any case, I just want to have fun. If I want to be put to sleep, I'll play a game about Trains or something.

 

Is that a Team Ninja avatar you have? You should be on my side.

[DeathScepter]

GRAAAAAAAAGH!! AGREE OP! DON'T BE COOL! BE HOT! VORCHA BURN YOU LIKE HABANERO PEPPERS BURN ANUS WHEN POOPING LATER!!!

you make perfectly good sense.

 

 

Vorcha you are pure in your humor. don't change.

[Stakrin]

Kaiden is that "nice guy" who got friendzoned alot in highschool. All kaiden needs is a fedora. He is pathetic but not a bad character either.

I don't think being nice and getting friend zoned makes people pathetic tho. Especially when you have awesome magical powers.

[ModernAcademic]

I think OP means he\she is tired of overpowered characters who seem to be awesome at everything - looks,personality, talents - because...no substantial reason at all.

 

Such characters don't feel real. They end up becoming a lot like super heroes or super villains. In a game of the scifi genre, it doesn't make sense to include them. Scifi is not like fantasy. It tends to be more grounded.

 

If you compare ME1 with its 2 successors, you'll notice ME1 had that scifi feel to it. Characters had a solid background, normal appearance for military personnel, even the aliens had a believable behaviour. The dialogs with Wrex where he shows his downhearted, cynical personality as a seasoned mercenary or with Garrus, the police officer who's concerned bureaucracy will allow criminals to remain free set the tone for an adult fiction in a reasonably believable futuristic galaxy.

 

ME 2 and 3 felt more like an Iron Man or another Marvel/DC type of story, with people wearing collants and bathing suits to fight, being all knowledgeable about complicated stuff and being able to use magical powers (Samara, Jack) with some lame excuse for the existence of their abilities (Ardat Yakshi being powerful, Jack being an engineered biotic warrior).

 

 

 

Really, in all honesty, when I saw Miranda in that outfit and then Samara in that bathing suit, I thought it was ridiculous. Thank God ME2 is a really enjoyable game. (Pity ME3 is not nearly as good as it is. Too much pseudo moralism with that "this is war" speech; everybody has to be strong, everyone knows someone who had their home blown up, everyone's tired of losing people, blah blah blah.) Otherwise, I would have quit right there.

[straykat]

I think OP means he\she is tired of overpowered characters who seem to be awesome at everything - looks,personality, talents - because...no substantial reason at all.

 

Such characters don't feel real. They end up becoming a lot like super heroes or super villains. In a game of the scifi genre, it doesn't make sense to include them. Scifi is not like fantasy. It tends to be more grounded.

 

If you compare ME1 with its 2 successors, you'll notice ME1 had that scifi feel to it. Characters had a solid background, normal appearance for military personnel, even the aliens had a believable behaviour. The dialogs with Wrex where he shows his downhearted, cynical personality as a seasoned mercenary or with Garrus, the police officer who's concerned bureaucracy will allow criminals to remain free set the tone for an adult fiction in a reasonably believable futuristic galaxy.

 

ME 2 and 3 felt more like an Iron Man or another Marvel/DC type of story, with people wearing collants and bathing suits to fight, being all knowledgeable about complicated stuff and being able to use magical powers (Samara, Jack) with some lame excuse for the existence of their abilities (Ardat Yakshi being powerful, Jack being an engineered biotic warrior).

 

 

 

Really, in all honesty, when I saw Miranda in that outfit and then Samara in that bathing suit, I thought it was ridiculous. Thank God ME2 is a really enjoyable game. (Pity ME3 is not nearly as good as it is. Too much pseudo moralism with that "this is war" speech; everybody has to be strong, everyone knows someone who had their home blown up, everyone's tired of losing people, blah blah blah.) Otherwise, I would have quit right there.

 

They're not magic powers. It's biotics. Just like the first game, it's telekinesis. Except with Morinth's domination, which isn't necessarily a biotic thing, but an Ardat Yakshi thing. And how is that a lame excuse for Jack? The human biotic and Cerberus novels all provided a good setup. It's only natural that a group like Cerberus tried to tap into the power and make labrats. All of those type of groups were already doing that in ME1 with husks, rachni, creepers, etc.. Even default Akuze Shep is a labrat. Biotics would not be excluded.

[ModernAcademic]

They're not magic powers. It's biotics. Just like the first game, it's telekinesis. Except with Morinth's domination, which isn't necessarily a biotic thing, but an Ardat Yakshi thing. And how is that a lame excuse for Jack? The human biotic and Cerberus novels all provided a good setup. It's only natural that a group like Cerberus tried to tap into the power and make labrats. All of those type of groups were already doing that in ME1 with husks, rachni, creepers, etc.. Even default Akuze Shep is a labrat. Biotics would not be excluded.

 

I KNOW it's biotics, friend. I played the trilogy over and over. And as a fan, I'm someone who's always been interested in learning about the universe of the game and its elements. My criticism refers,amongst other things, to the way some biotic characters were executed in the ME2 and ME3 game. It was poorly done. 

 

You don't associate Kaidan Alenko with him being a ridiculously overpowered character because he was well developed as a biotic soldier. But you do with Jack,for instance. The very fact Jack is the stereotype of a criminal as society pictures them (which is VERY different from being a person who commited crimes) and can knock down several war machines with her powers removes her credibility as a realistic character. There is no counterpart of Jack in the real world. But there are several of Kaidan Alenko and Ash Williams, for example. THAT is the point I am strongly criticising.

 

Samara with that bathing suit is like a super heroine out of a comic book. Do you see a lot of people wearing that kind of clothing while travelling all over the country to apply justice? No. Hence she doesn't convince as an enforcer of the law.

Second, the fact her powers render her able to do super human stuff, such as fly - which is RIDICULOUS in a franchise that has science as a fundamental premise - when no other biotics displayed that ability is what makes it appear to be a supernatural phenomenon. Which is to say: MAGIC. 

 

Jack, with that strap around her breasts and her body exaggeratedly tattoed, along with a 24/7 foul mouth and a rebellious attittude, is like a super bad criminal. Do you see female prisoners tattoo their entire body and act like a rebellious teenager hellbent on murder? No. Actually, women in prison form families and behave like your average women, with an occasional foul mouthing. And no, they don't cover every inch of their bodies with tattoos. Some of them even have no tattos at all. And many of them were once married and have kids.

 

Is Mass Effect a scifi game or a fantasy set in a futuristic scenario? If it's scifi, then why create unbelievable characters in games 2 and 3 who are stereotypes or super heroes, and who better belong in comic books? That is to say, in children's stories, not in an adult setting, such as scifi is supposed to be? Either they keep the ME universe coherent with its original proposal, which is to tell a scifi story (something they DID accomplish with ME1, hence my many compliments to the first installment of the ME series), or anything is possible and you get a fantasy story dressed as scifi, but which - for the attentive and discerning player - fails horribly at being one.

That's my point right there.

[straykat]

There are other biotics who did extreme things like that.. they were in the novels before ME2.

 

And Kaidan isn't all that impressive anyways. 1) He's an early L2 biotic and 2) he's a sentinel. He says himself in ME3 that he can't levitate like Samara. It's his skill level. Not that he's more realistic. And he's kind of like a kid when he talks about learning Reave. He's still growing. The floating and moving big vehicles is matriarch level stuff. Something Jack is capable of too to a smaller extent (she can levitate in some LotSB clips and Grissom, but it's sketchy).

 

Other than that, fewer people want to play some 2001 space odyssey simulator. Or walk around in bulky astronaut suits. Or whatever it is hardcore sci-fi is supposed to be. Few people want to overthink it. We're ****** shallow -- and happy about it On a technical level though, this opens up room for artists. Which is good. I guess this is always going to be a clash between design vs technicalities. I think they strike a fun balance myself.

 

I wouldn't say it's against sci-fi in general though. Miranda's look in particular has been around since Buck Rogers and Frank Frazetta paintings. Jack's look is common in apocalyptic or cyberpunk.

[Greetsme]

Ion bull spots the dragon on the beach and says 'Now that's bad arse'.  It was so out of place that I really dislike him now.

 

After ME1 I keep Kaidan around for one reason, and that is hoping for the opportunity to smack the smug little b*****d in the face.

[Seraphim24]

I KNOW it's biotics, friend. I played the trilogy over and over. And as a fan, I'm someone who's always been interested in learning about the universe of the game and its elements. My criticism refers,amongst other things, to the way some biotic characters were executed in the ME2 and ME3 game. It was poorly done. 

 

You don't associate Kaidan Alenko with him being a ridiculously overpowered character because he was well developed as a biotic soldier. But you do with Jack,for instance. The very fact Jack is the stereotype of a criminal as society pictures them (which is VERY different from being a person who commited crimes) and can knock down several war machines with her powers removes her credibility as a realistic character. There is no counterpart of Jack in the real world. But there are several of Kaidan Alenko and Ash Williams, for example. THAT is the point I am strongly criticising.

 

Samara with that bathing suit is like a super heroine out of a comic book. Do you see a lot of people wearing that kind of clothing while travelling all over the country to apply justice? No. Hence she doesn't convince as an enforcer of the law.

Second, the fact her powers render her able to do super human stuff, such as fly - which is RIDICULOUS in a franchise that has science as a fundamental premise - when no other biotics displayed that ability is what makes it appear to be a supernatural phenomenon. Which is to say: MAGIC. 

 

Jack, with that strap around her breasts and her body exaggeratedly tattoed, along with a 24/7 foul mouth and a rebellious attittude, is like a super bad criminal. Do you see female prisoners tattoo their entire body and act like a rebellious teenager hellbent on murder? No. Actually, women in prison form families and behave like your average women, with an occasional foul mouthing. And no, they don't cover every inch of their bodies with tattoos. Some of them even have no tattos at all. And many of them were once married and have kids.

 

Is Mass Effect a scifi game or a fantasy set in a futuristic scenario? If it's scifi, then why create unbelievable characters in games 2 and 3 who are stereotypes or super heroes, and who better belong in comic books? That is to say, in children's stories, not in an adult setting, such as scifi is supposed to be? Either they keep the ME universe coherent with its original proposal, which is to tell a scifi story (something they DID accomplish with ME1, hence my many compliments to the first installment of the ME series), or anything is possible and you get a fantasy story dressed as scifi, but which - for the attentive and discerning player - fails horribly at being one.

That's my point right there.

 

To  be honest, I was (and kind of am) still just thinking of the absence of men in tights style hilarity and whimsy in the ME universe, being gradually displaced by increasingly taught high drama and super edgy characters (Jack being kind of the highpoint of that)

 

I just like to have fun in games I don't want it to be so clausterphobic and obsessive all the time, maybe that's kind of related to a point about realism though. Most people everywhere aren't just super-robotic complete this do that, next phase kind of thing that Shepard is in ME2 and ME3.

[Seraphim24]

I was also thinking about this but what happened to the IT passionate nerd character concept? I feel like there used to be this kind of ecstatic character that would regale you with how your computer synchronizes it's clock with sattelie rays from outer orbit or something just obscure and fanciful, or just lots of random factoids.

 

Those characters were pretty cool, but it seems like a witch hunt for that kind of personality, like they've all graduated to driving posh corvettes down dark streets with their model girlfriends, but it's like um wait wasn't that what the whole thing was opposed to in the first place?

 

Either that or they try and jam ultra unrealistic fantasy laden stereotypes like Jack down your throat and blame you for not "getting it."