99 réponses à ce sujet

[straykat]

I don't even see how she's that edgy. She's not even as Renegade as Miranda, who's more coldly ruthless. And she fits the setting.. just like Zaeed, they're lone humans in the Terminus. What do you expect them to be like? Except she has the added fact of being tortured as a labrat. If it's just the look and anger, it's just inspired by punk stuff. I was the same way. The voice actress herself grew up around the time I did too.. she was a young punk herself apparently. She said she saw herself in Jack. And I think that's why her performance stands out. She knew it by heart. There's a little truth in some of it. Unless you don't meet people like this at all. But that's not a problem of the game.

 

Literary wise, it's about as edgy as Wolverine. In fact, it's exactly like Wolverine. That's all she is. Just replace Weapon X with Cerberus. And Wolverine saving the kids at the mansion with Grissom.

[Seraphim24]

I don't even see how she's that edgy. She fits the setting.. just like Zaeed, they're lone humans in the Terminus. Except she has the added fact of being tortured as a labrat.

 

It's about as edgy as Wolverine. In fact, it's exactly like Wolverine. It's all it is.

 

Jack just strikes me more like a loner character than as ModernAcademicsays a common criminal, her whole story is about how people don't get her or people can't get closer to her or attachment is hard and all that stuff which might as well be Annette Benning's character in American Beauty.

 

The "criminal tatted up" thing just feels superficial as a consequence, when do you ever see Jack's rugged randomly murder someone criminal side? You don't, it's just backstory in her case, in fact the only thing you see going forward is evolution into being a teacher at an academy.

 

As for as this thread and topic goes, she's also just very needy, to put it bluntly.

[straykat]

Jack just strikes me more like a loner character than as ModernAcademicsays a common criminal, her whole story is about how people don't get her or people can't get closer to her or attachment is hard and all that stuff which might as well be Kevin Spacey's character in American Beauty.

 

The "criminal tatted up" thing just feels superficial as a consequence, when do you ever see Jack's rugged randomly murder someone criminal side? You don't, it's just backstory in her case, in fact the only thing you see going forward is evolution into being a teacher at an academy.

 

As for as this thread and topic goes, she's also just very needy, to put it bluntly.

 

She's not that much of a loner. She tells you that at first.. but some of her tats are her "sisters" who were killed. All of her tats tell a story.. It was the artist's favorite character to design apparently (Matt Rhodes). He put thought into it.

 

Anyways, I think you're over analyzing things. Try to have fun. That's all I'm gonna say. That's why I pointed out your avatar. It's that seriousness of western crowds that gets Ninja banned over here. They won't even port their volleyball game now. lol

[Hanako Ikezawa]

when do you ever see Jack's rugged randomly murder someone criminal side?

During her loyalty mission she can murder Aresh. 

[Seraphim24]

She's not that much of a loner. She tells you that at first.. but some of her tats are her "sisters" who were killed. All of her tats tell a story.. It was the artist's favorite character to design apparently (Matt Rhodes). He put thought into it.

 

Anyways, I think you're over analyzing things. Try to have fun. That's all I'm gonna say. That's why I pointed out your avatar. It's that seriousness of western crowds that gets Ninja banned over here. They won't even port their volleyball game now. lol

 

I am actually just started listening to a video about something else entirely outside of ME but realized my analogy was bad because I was thinking of Annette Benning's character from American Beauty, not Kevin Spacey, which I think I'll edit now.

 

As for Team Ninja well America has been censoring games forever (FF6, etc) or just outright not even bringing them over so this whole thing is nothing new at all. Honestly it's arguably way better than ever because of region-free being more of a thing games from Japan (and anime for that matter) are iin many respects much more accessible now than they were some years ago.

[straykat]

Just to add, Jack was never supposed to be a criminal in the truest sense anyways. She talks crap, but she was only in that prison for killing Cerberus. Her reputation inside the prison grew notorious because people ganged up on her and she wasted them. But essentially, her original crime there is no different than Shep going on their Cerberus killing sprees in ME1. In D&D terms, she's more of a chaotic neutral. Part of the point of the character is to see past the bullshit and see that she cares about some things. It contrasts with the more presentable Miranda, who actually reveals more of a cold hearted attitude.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Just to add, Jack was never supposed to be a criminal in the truest sense anyways. She talks crap, but she was only in that prison for killing Cerberus. Her reputation inside the prison grew notorious because people ganged up on her and she wasted them. But essentially, her original crime there is no different than Shep going on their Cerberus killing sprees in ME1. In D&D terms, she's more of a chaotic neutral. Part of the point of the character is to see past the bullshit and see that she cares about some things. It contrasts with the more presentable Miranda, who actually reveals more of a cold hearted attitude.

So we're ignoring the fact that she has committed among other things piracy, kidnapping, murder, and "vandalism"? While the reason she went to Purgatory was because of her attacking Cerberus, she is definitely a criminal in the truest sense of the word.

[straykat]

So we're ignoring the fact that she has committed among other things piracy, kidnapping, murder, and "vandalism"? While the reason she went to Purgatory was because of her attacking Cerberus, she is definitely a criminal in the truest sense of the word.

 

I don't know her whole extent of murder. I think she obfuscates, to push people like Shep away. Life is easy that way. And she wants to appear as intimidating as he/she probably is.

 

Her crimes of vandalism are retaliation specifically. They killed her group. She's just acting like every other faction - including Shep. By protecting her own. It has more of a hallmark of war than mere crime or wanton slaughter.

 

Not to say she's a good person or anything. More like, the whole landscape is screwed up. You're an idiot if you don't fight or survive. Not sure what qualifies as as murder here sometimes lol. I would say Kai Leng and Morinth were straight up murderers. Or more like, predators.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't know her whole extent of murder. I think she obfuscates, to push people like Shep away. Life is easy that way.

 

Her crimes of vandalism are retaliation specifically. They killed her group. She's just acting like every other faction - including Shep. By protecting her own. It has more of a hallmark of war than mere crime or wanton slaughter.

 

Not to say she's a good person or anything. More like, the whole landscape is screwed up. Not sure what qualifies as as what here. lol. I would say Kai Leng and Morinth were straight up murderers.

The extent is irrelevant. She has murdered people, thus is a criminal because murder is a crime and a criminal is a person who commits a crime.

 

I'm referring to the "vandalism" of her crashing a space station into one of the Hanar's moons, not her attacking Cerberus. 

[straykat]

The extent is irrelevant. She has murdered people, thus is a criminal because murder is a crime and a criminal is a person who commits a crime.

 

I'm referring to the "vandalism" of her crashing a space station into one of the Hanar's moons, not her attacking Cerberus. 

 

I know what you meant by vandalism. They killed her friends. She responded in kind.

 

I think it's funny, personally. And it was meant to be taken as such.

 

 

As for murder, good luck with that definition here. That'd be quite the burden.

[LemurFromTheId]

So we're ignoring the fact that she has committed among other things piracy, kidnapping, murder, and "vandalism"? While the reason she went to Purgatory was because of her attacking Cerberus, she is definitely a criminal in the truest sense of the word.

 

"Definitely"?

 

Do we actually have any proof that she's committed crimes, aside from her own stories, which could be completely made up?

[straykat]

"Definitely"?

 

Do we actually have any proof that she's committed crimes, aside from her own stories, which could be completely made up?

 

That's what I can never tell. It sounds like she was sincere in searching for somewhere to belong.. and **** kept hitting the fan. That incident with the Hanar was one of those times. It was a group she actually liked.

 

The one thing that sounds true is when you talk to her in the Citadel bathroom. When she got to purgatory, some group gangraped her...sadly. So she killed them individually over time.

 

I don't blame her for relishing it. And I think it's stuff like that built her rep and got her locked up in cryo. Not for being some notorious person in general.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

"Definitely"?

 

Do we actually have any proof that she's committed crimes, aside from her own stories, which could be completely made up?

She commits murder in her own recruitment mission. Her tearing through Purgatory causes several blocks to be exposed to the vacuum of space, killing everyone in that block. That includes people who were not threatening her, thus murder.

[straykat]

No burden at all, actually. The only people who think she isn't one, since she does it in the game, are deluding themselves. 

 

She commits murder in her own recruitment mission. Her tearing through Purgatory causes several blocks to be exposed to the vacuum of space, killing everyone in that block.

 

That place was a shithole. Good riddance. I finished off the rest of the people there too. How can I possibly judge her.

 

I think your option is convert to Amish.. and just not play the game.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That place was a shithole. Good riddance. I finished off the rest of the people there too. How can I possibly judge her.

 

I think your option is convert to Amish.. and just not play the game.

Your opinion of the place or its denizens are irrelevant. She committed murder by definition of the law.

[straykat]

Your opinion of the place is irrelevant. She committed murder by every definition of the term. 

 

It is relevant. I'm playing the same game, aren't I? We're talking about the same thing.

 

I'm just not worried about it. I'd rather laugh about some of these things. It's a lesson you or anyone is going to have to learn in order to even have fun or proceed. It'll be a "burden" as I said, otherwise.

 

I say the whole battlefield and contexts changes definitions. Especially in the Terminus. It's almost constant war. Typical ideas like murder don't make sense, except the more predatory and intimate circumstances.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It is relevant. I'm playing the same game, aren't I? We're talking about the same thing.

 

I'm just not worried about it. I'd rather laugh about some of these things. It's a lesson you or anyone is going to have to learn in order to even have fun or proceed. It'll be a "burden" as I said, otherwise.

 

I say the whole battlefield and contexts changes definitions. Especially in the Terminus.

You know most nations charge people who kill noncombatants on a battlefield for murder too, right? They're called war criminals. 

 

But the fact you laugh at the notion of murdering people shows I'm wasting my time with you. Farewell.

[straykat]

You know most nations charge people who kill noncombatants on a battlefield for murder too, right? They're called war criminals. 

 

But the fact you laugh at the notion of murdering people shows I'm wasting my time with you.

 

I'm just a gamer. Don't be dramatic. If you don't see my main reason for even being in the whole thread, then I'm sorry for you. I'm here to reinforce the gaming and fun factor, most of all. And when I say it's a burden to think like you, I really care. The minute you think about it too much, games like this should drive you nuts. Most of it is awful. You think I'm that unaware?

 

I'll grant you that those were noncombatants in her initial explosion though. So there, she's a murderer. Great. But in Garrus' words, at least she's got style. Or something like that. I forgot what he said now. lol

[Hazegurl]

You know most nations charge people who kill noncombatants on a battlefield for murder too, right? They're called war criminals. 

 

But the fact you laugh at the notion of murdering people shows I'm wasting my time with you. Farewell.

Shepard can also kill noncombatants. Like the helicopter repair guy in Garrus' recruitment mission, and pushing the guy out the window  (I forgot what mission that was for).  But those are renegade actions.  Shepard is an accessory to murder during Thane's recruitment mission no matter if you're paragon or renegade and if you let Garrus kill that dude in his loyalty mission. All noncombatants.

 

And who was killed in that prison aside from murderers, rapists, and slavers?

[LemurFromTheId]

She commits murder in her own recruitment mission. Her tearing through Purgatory causes several blocks to be exposed to the vacuum of space, killing everyone in that block. That includes people who were not threatening her, thus murder.

 

Am I forgetting some key cutscene here or something? I remember her only taking out two guards, and to me, that seemed more like self-defence than anything else, considering that the whole place is operated by a criminal who's not above keeping innocent people in captivity.

[straykat]

Shepard can also kill noncombatants. Like the helicopter repair guy in Garrus' recruitment mission, and pushing the guy out the window  (I forgot what mission that was for).  But those are renegade actions.  Shepard is an accessory to murder during Thane's recruitment mission no matter if you're paragon or renegade and if you let Garrus kill that dude in his loyalty mission. All noncombatants.

 

And who was killed in that prison aside from murderers, rapists, and slavers?

 

I'm sure there's probably one or two innocents there.. so that's why I'll grant him his wish: she's a murderer.

 

I still don't try to analyze it though. That's the way to madness. Just enjoy the music and shoot your way through corridors. It doesn't have to be some big statement. There's a time to take some elements seriously, and a time to not to. I'd just hope people know when that often is.

 

I know it's not exactly popular on BSN, but I stand in defense of a little shallowness and the lowbro.

[GoldenGail3]

 
I know it's not exactly popular on BSN, but I stand in defense of a little shallowness and the lowbro.

I do too, to some extact. I image that if there dislikes, I'd get like hundred each day. I'm not very popular, and I know so. See, I have only 328 likes. Not very many for a person with sort of a lot of comments like i do.

[Linkenski]

Yeah, Super MAC has yet to learn this lesson.

He doesn't listen, so he'll never learn from anything.

[Han Shot First]

Shepard can also kill noncombatants. Like the helicopter repair guy in Garrus' recruitment mission, and pushing the guy out the window  (I forgot what mission that was for).  But those are renegade actions.  Shepard is an accessory to murder during Thane's recruitment mission no matter if you're paragon or renegade and if you let Garrus kill that dude in his loyalty mission. All noncombatants.

 

And who was killed in that prison aside from murderers, rapists, and slavers?

 

I get your basic point, but would disagree with the guy repairing the helicopter being a noncombatant. He was a mercenary and doing maintenance on a war machine that was slated to be used against the target Shepard was sent to rescue. Both make him a legitimate military target. Soldiers don't have to be armed for them to be legally killed, unlike say, criminals being confronted by a police officer.

 

The merc pushed out the window would be much harder to justify. That would basically fall under the definition of torture and murder of an EPW (Shepard threatens to kill him if he doesn't provide intel, and potentially carries out the threat when he doesn't), which would land someone in hot water in anything resembling the real world. Of course as either a Spectre or a Cerberus mook, Shepard a'int got time for that.

[SentinelMacDeath]

Shepard in ME2 isn't a soldier and doesn't operate within military laws so even if he kills the bad guys he's still a murderer. Depending on your choices in ME1 you won't even be a Spectre. If you go out and kill what you presume is a bad guy you're not the hero ... you're a vigilante.