44 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

I don't think there's all that much "small world syndrome" going on in DAI. Most of the returning characters in DAI have logical reasons for showing up, we're not just randomly running into them.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

Morri and/or Keiran definitely have reason to go after Solas. I can think of half a dozen ways to make that plausible.

In fact, I was so pissed-off at Solas after Trespasser (which title applies more to him than to the Qunari) that I would be tempted to ALLY with Tevinter just to bring him down.

[Qun00]

OR it could be a good chance to delve deeper into these characters.

The only issue I have with cameos and such is Grey Warden Alistair in Dragon Age 2. What are the odds that you'd meet him there?

[Aren]

Morri and/or Keiran definitely have reason to go after Solas. I can think of half a dozen ways to make that plausible.

In fact, I was so pissed-off at Solas after Trespasser (which title applies more to him than to the Qunari) that I would be tempted to ALLY with Tevinter just to bring him down.

What reason they have exactly?

Assuming that Kieran exist.......and   Morrigan don't event even know who Solas is since she left the Inquisition long before he revealed anything to the inquisitor.

Aside from all those people around the big map in the last scene of Trespasser   nobody know who Solas is.

[Dai Grepher]

I'll grant you the above point.

 

As for the below point, is Water Breathing magic a known thing in Thedas? Or Slowfall, for that matter? Thedas has done the Never Found the Body thing before, but they usually have some explanation: Anders faked his death by burning another mage's corpse beyond recongition, Morrigan took a gut wound (which takes long enough that she could credibly have had time to treat herself), and Leiliana died in a powerfully magical place that (taken in context with what we learn in Descent) might be right above a Titan. So, I'd grant that Calpernia might have survived, but I'm skeptical until she makes a reappearance.

 

Thanks.

 

Not sure what you mean, but I doubt Calpernia would hit the water hard enough to die from it, and she would resurface afterward and just breathe normally. I would like to add Velanna to your list. People see a wall collapse on her, then when they move the rubble later there is simply no body. Calpernia's "death" is similar to that but reversed. While she isn't as likely to die from her event, no one bothers to look for her body as confirmation.

 

I would be shocked if BioWare put her in the "possibly dead" category.

[Dai Grepher]

The only issue I have with cameos and such is Grey Warden Alistair in Dragon Age 2. What are the odds that you'd meet him there?

 

1 in 5, I think.

[kal_reegar]

I fear the "Lost Effect": to try to explain, justify and connect every aspect of the Lore with new revelations, mysteries, sleeping Gods, ancient subterranean beigns etc.

 

The DA:O Lore is (IMO) very sound, consistent and believable, for an High Fantasy videogame. Is it truly necessary to add new, unexpected elements in every dlc? When there are a lot of things/story to keep on?.

IMO, some things (for example, the lyrium, the veil, the maker and religion in general) should remain shrouded in mysticism, unexpressed....

 

I've seen a lot of good settings becoming baroque and than incoherent because of the attempt to explain everything through new strangenesses and revelations (anyone remember the space child of Me3?)

 

 

So please bioware... caution. Do not overload the lore.

[Lebanese Dude]

This is why they really need to set the next game in Tevinter(sp) and LEAVE EVERYBODY IN THE SOUTH.

 

That's what's going to happen most likely.

 

No need to be concerned.

[Illegitimus]

It at least makes slightly more sense for a previous character to reappear in DA (although still highly unlikely),

 

 

Oh please.  It's not highly unlikely that the most formidable people in the world show up in more than one major crisis.  It's pretty natural unless they've been killed off or are getting too old.  

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Not sure what you mean, but I doubt Calpernia would hit the water hard enough to die from it, and she would resurface afterward and just breathe normally. I would like to add Velanna to your list. People see a wall collapse on her, then when they move the rubble later there is simply no body. Calpernia's "death" is similar to that but reversed. While she isn't as likely to die from her event, no one bothers to look for her body as confirmation.

 

I would be shocked if BioWare put her in the "possibly dead" category.

I would not be shocked if she is possibly dead, though as far as being flat-out dead I agree that the thing where Cory is surprised to see you is a good indication that Calpernia didn't run into him on her way out. (Probably redundant to point it out again, but hey.)

 

I haven't played that quest since before I rolled my second character (who is almost to it himself) but I think the pool Calpernia lands in was several stories below the battlefield, or thereabouts? That can be surprisingly lethal. We're really not built to take long falls, and while water softens them up it's less than you'd think. If someone dies by accidentally driving off a bridge and falling into water, you can't automatically assume they drowned. And that assumes the water is deep enough to help at all. If she hits rock despite it, she probably dies.

 

And since I haven't gotten this scene yet (my first Inquisitor "sided with the mages" in that he basically put them into a Circle-lite lifestyle, and as previously stated I haven't gotten there with my second) I need to ask: how does she fall? If she falls feetfirst, that helps. But if she falls headfirst, she either wasn't going to die from that situation at all or found a way to make sure she dies and make sure it's quick. Those no diving signs they have at swimming pools? Those are there for a reason.

 

Edit: I only just now realized that I'd forgotten the possibility that she knows Slowfall. Though how much that helps if she fell headfirst I couldn't tell you. And again: do we even know if mages know how to do that in this setting? Sure, they can, since apparently there's no actual rules to magic in this setting, but the setting has mages not have the slightest idea how to use their power to the fullest as a feature rather than a bug because otherwise stuff like distance and death (and possibly by extension falling several stories) wouldn't have very serious consequences.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Yes, for three games and and an entire novel (Asunder) we have been bludgeoned with the way mages work in southern Thedas. IMO it's time to see how the "evil" Tevinter ones conduct themselves.

There was a Noodle Incident kind of thing Dorian brings up about flying cows over Minrathous while he's touching upon the rumors southerners tell. "Okay, well, that one's actually true. But the cows didn't have wings." I want to see if Bioware shows us what that's supposed to mean.

 

Maybe it's some form of magically empowered Extreme Cow Tipping?

 

But I don't know that the quotation marks around "evil" were called for. Dorian really does seem to confirm a lot of the worst of it in his descriptions of the place even as he proves that's not all there is to it. Most of the new stuff we learn from him is nuance and rule-proving exceptions.

[shortbreadspacer]

As much as I like Varric, his appearance in DA:I felt very forced to me. Cass and Leliana pretty much had to be there as others have pointed out, and I could easily picture Cassandra in Kirkwall thinking "damn, we need a military guy", look to Cullen and think "he'll do." 

 

I think Hawke could have served his/her purpose via correspondence with the Inquisition rather than appearing in person.

 

One thing that pissed me off was - I had Alistair, Morrigan and Leliana at Skyhold and never got even just one scene of them interacting. I know about the Kieran conversation Alistair and Morrigan can have but I couldn't get it to trigger. If you're going to bring the gang back, at least let them talk.

[Lebanese Dude]

 

 

One thing that pissed me off was - I had Alistair, Morrigan and Leliana at Skyhold and never got even just one scene of them interacting. I know about the Kieran conversation Alistair and Morrigan can have but I couldn't get it to trigger. If you're going to bring the gang back, at least let them talk.

 

Why would they talk in front of you? You're not the Warden. Their relationship is none of your business either way.

 

Besides, they're not exactly friends. 

[Ashagar]

There was a Noodle Incident kind of thing Dorian brings up about flying cows over Minrathous while he's touching upon the rumors southerners tell. "Okay, well, that one's actually true. But the cows didn't have wings." I want to see if Bioware shows us what that's supposed to mean.

 

Maybe it's some form of magically empowered Extreme Cow Tipping?

 

But I don't know that the quotation marks around "evil" were called for. Dorian really does seem to confirm a lot of the worst of it in his descriptions of the place even as he proves that's not all there is to it. Most of the new stuff we learn from him is nuance and rule-proving exceptions.

 

True though that's also dealing with the most elite of the elite nobles of a ancient empire so its not that surprising that many of them are  either a self serving or be varying degrees of evil though admittedly being evil doesn't mean treacherous or disloyal to Tevinter.

 

Honestly I think will like the Tevinter far better than the Orlaisians though that might be because of the heavy Roman overtones they have to their culture, political and social structure.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

True though that's also dealing with the most elite of the elite nobles of a ancient empire so its not that surprising that many of them are  either a self serving or be varying degrees of evil though admittedly being evil doesn't mean treacherous or disloyal to Tevinter.

 

Honestly I think will like the Tevinter far better than the Orlaisians though that might be because of the heavy Roman overtones they have to their culture, political and social structure.

While they're probably the worst of this setting's nobility, if only because they have Orlesian tendencies backed up with blood magic and with homophobia thrown into the mix, I think I'll like them too. Like I said, if nothing else I'll bet we'll see some cool crap.

 

Cooler thing than flying cows that I wished I hadn't forgotten: the capital of Tevinter is apparently guarded by large golems. I suppose we don't know anything more specific than that they're large golems, let alone that they're large by golem standards, but somehow I can't stop picturing megazords.

[Dai Grepher]

I would not be shocked if she is possibly dead, though as far as being flat-out dead I agree that the thing where Cory is surprised to see you is a good indication that Calpernia didn't run into him on her way out. (Probably redundant to point it out again, but hey.)

 

I haven't played that quest since before I rolled my second character (who is almost to it himself) but I think the pool Calpernia lands in was several stories below the battlefield, or thereabouts? That can be surprisingly lethal. We're really not built to take long falls, and while water softens them up it's less than you'd think. If someone dies by accidentally driving off a bridge and falling into water, you can't automatically assume they drowned. And that assumes the water is deep enough to help at all. If she hits rock despite it, she probably dies.

 

And since I haven't gotten this scene yet (my first Inquisitor "sided with the mages" in that he basically put them into a Circle-lite lifestyle, and as previously stated I haven't gotten there with my second) I need to ask: how does she fall? If she falls feetfirst, that helps. But if she falls headfirst, she either wasn't going to die from that situation at all or found a way to make sure she dies and make sure it's quick. Those no diving signs they have at swimming pools? Those are there for a reason.

 

Edit: I only just now realized that I'd forgotten the possibility that she knows Slowfall. Though how much that helps if she fell headfirst I couldn't tell you. And again: do we even know if mages know how to do that in this setting? Sure, they can, since apparently there's no actual rules to magic in this setting, but the setting has mages not have the slightest idea how to use their power to the fullest as a feature rather than a bug because otherwise stuff like distance and death (and possibly by extension falling several stories) wouldn't have very serious consequences.

 

Well here's the thing. I agree that she may have died from that fall, especially if the pool she landed in was like, a yard deep. What I'm saying is the fact that BioWare had her teleport up there, give her little speech, and then jump into the unknown, makes me think that this was an out-of-game, real world indication that BioWare wants her to return no matter what. And the fact they did it this way, with no confirmed death, means they learned their lesson from Leliana in the Temple of Sacred Ashes.

 

Hard to say. She kind of does a flip. Ironically adding to the mystery of whether she lives or not? I guess you could say she falls carelessly. Leaving it to chance.

 

Still, my reasons for thinking she lives are real world examples (story preferences of BioWare), and also some meta-knowledge. The new comic features Marius, her former lover. Also, in your worldstate where you sided with mages, Calpernia just sort of drops out of the storyline. It can then be assumed that she returns to Tevinter after the defeat of her master. So she definately lives in those cases, and her fate is unknown in just that one.

 

I don't know if she cast any spell to slow her descent. This was after a battle, so she was probably pretty drained.

[Typhrus]

Oh please.  It's not highly unlikely that the most formidable people in the world show up in more than one major crisis.  It's pretty natural unless they've been killed off or are getting too old.  

  Thanks for cherry picking an incomplete sentence (as you quoted) from my post and misunderstanding the rest of it.

 

  One, I was comparing ME and DA in relation to how many previous characters appeared over the course of their respective three games. Two, I'm actually arguing it makes more sense for said characters to have appeared because in DA we have so far been restricted to Southern Thedas. Primarily being concerned with Orlais and Ferelden, with a jaunt up into the Free Marches for DA2. Simply put, we were much more likely to run recurring characters in DA:O-DA:I because the three games were set in a relatively small geographic place, compared to the three Mass Effect games which are on a galactic scale (or 1% of that....but that is still massive in comparison). So yes, in Southern Thedas it makes sense for 'formidable people' it constantly appear in major crises because they're either in a position of power or significantly allied to people in power. This doesn't necessarily hold true for setting the next game in Tevinter

  My point was leading into the second paragraph where it is less likely that we will see some of the older characters from DA:O-DA:I in DA4 if it is indeed set in Tevinter. The notable exceptions would be whoever is the White Divine (so: Cassandra, Leliana and Viv), whoever is ruler of Orlais and Dorian. Solas will probably appear somewhere, Morrigan might, but I'm not so sure on that...depends on if she drank from the Well of Sorrows or not I guess. Other than those characters, I'm struggling to see what other characters would 'fit' into the storyline, but I don't mind if they are given a strong reason for being there.

In a much less sarcastic tone from the intro sentence, I should thank you for actually forcing me to articulate and expand upon my argument more clearly. It was clear to me what I meant, but not soo much to others.

[Akiza]

Oh please.  It's not highly unlikely that the most formidable people in the world 

The most formidable people in the world?

Have you met each person in Thedas in order to claim your statement as the truth?

How do we know at how many heroes are out there?

Certainly i don't need this over abuse on reusing of characters.

[Addictress]

I am so facking excited for Tevinter it's not even funny

[Marshal Moriarty]

I just don't see how moving to an isolationist country, who go out of their way to avoid contact with other countries will be so wonderful. Especially as they are dyed in the wool enemies with the Qunari, which pretty much dooms the Par Vollen hornheads to be the villains of the piece yet again, even more so than they have before (for like... the 3rd time, and considering it was done so excellently in DA2, it would be pure folly to go there again). And reopening the already insufferably overused arguments about mage rights and how religion should fit in with governance, the issues of slavery etc (which was covered in painstaking, endless detail by Fenris in DA2, but which would necessarily have to be a big focus in a Tevinter set game, considering huge swathes of the population belong to the slave caste)... The games have already picked over all this - just coming at it from a new perspective doesn't change the fact that its the same old issues. 

 

The fact is that the Imperium has not covered itself in glory by its actions, refusing to get involved in any of the big events that have been happening, prosecuting what is largely seen as a pointless war against the Qunari (and having nothing to show for it), as well as constantly being the source of trouble on the occasions they do show up. They refused to act in DA:I, even when the villain openly blasphemed, mocked and denied the existance of Andraste and Maker, and was working to establish his own religion devoted to himself. This is the worst kind of heresy imaginable, and what did the Imperial Chantry do? Jack all - they aren't even mentioned in the whole game, nor is the Black Divine, who apparently has no opinion on all this! It was a terrible storytelling blunder by Bioware, because it completely undermines the faith of those in the Imperial Chantry. Were none of them willing to take a stand for their beliefs?! None of them at all?! Especialy since the Imperial and Southern Chantries have acted together in the past, when the faith itself was threatened. Only not this time, it seems.

 

So frankly, you'll forgive me for not caring very much what Tevinter is up to after the shennigans they've pulled. Much less want to play as them, and support them. And particularly not because Bioware will probably make your Archon in the first 30 minutes, and have you completely reform their entire centuries old culture, so they are the most liberal, inclusive, altrustic people ever etc.

 

You may have detected some bitterness here lol! And I admit that Bioware's stock is very low with me at the moment. Setting the game anywhere is technically no problem so long as the game is good. Because that's the only thing that *actually* matters in the final analysis. But I want them to truly return to form, surprise us. Just moving the chairs around a bit and conducting business as usual in the IMO mediocre by their old standards way, isn't going to be enough.