316 réponses à ce sujet

[Panda]

That's a funny thing, right?  People complain when players don't show explicitly talk about their sexuality and/or don't show differences between male & female romance paths.  But then, when they do (like Anders), people get mad that the characters have different standards for male & female PCs.  It's weird.  I understand why people might have thought the LI's in DA2 were "playersexual", but even when provided with proof that it wasn't the case, people still fall back on this moment as 'evidence'.  Personally?  I'm indifferent on the matter.  But it is kind of neat when there are small differences between the male & female romance paths.

 

The difference doesn't make sense to me in the context it was at least, but Anders writers though so I understand why it's in the game.

[Inquisitor_Jonah]

So, h.o.m.o. is censured eh?  Figures '-'

 

Frankly, when men (and some women, too, for that matter) start hitting on my male characters I want to be able to go further than to just 'Turn them down politely'. I  don't people hitting on my protagonist so long as I can respond in satisfactory manner.

And what would be satisfactory to you? Bashing the character just because they expressed their feelings (or attraction)? Just because "NOHOMO?" (or for the girls: I'm not interested so I need to be an ass?) Really? That just proves my point lol

[PCThug]

The "Shep's not gay" thing was basically this:

 

After ME1 was released, people complained a bit that gay male Sheps were the only ones who didn't get any romance options.  Bioware (either Casey or Ray) responded by saying that it was because Shep is a pre-determined character and he's not gay.  People responded that FemShep could be a lesbian and that's when he responded with the ridiculous "Asari aren't female" thing (despite being called an "all female" race in game).  Basically, the argument was that since Liara's species is all-female, it didn't count as a lesbian relationship for FemShep.

 

Then, ME2 came out and FemShep could romance Kelly (even though it didn't count as a full romance).  It was only then (after having no way to explain away FemShepXKelly as not being a f/f relationship) that they reneged on their statement and said that they'd address m/m content in ME3.  All in all, it was embarrassing.

Really embarrassing and disappointing. They designed Shepard to be played a number of different ways and still felt justified in saying character was canonically not gay and Liara's romance didn't count (???). I'm glad they rectified that for ME3 but still...jesus.

[Grieving Natashina]

Really embarrassing and disappointing. They designed Shepard to be played a number of different ways and still felt justified in saying character was canonically not gay and Liara's romance didn't count (???). I'm glad they rectified that for ME3 but still...jesus.

That was my initial reaction as well. Times have changed, thankfully.

[Sarayne]

The "Shep's not gay" thing was basically this:

 

After ME1 was released, people complained a bit that gay male Sheps were the only ones who didn't get any romance options.  Bioware (either Casey or Ray) responded by saying that it was because Shep is a pre-determined character and he's not gay.  People responded that FemShep could be a lesbian and that's when he responded with the ridiculous "Asari aren't female" thing (despite being called an "all female" race in game).  Basically, the argument was that since Liara's species is all-female, it didn't count as a lesbian relationship for FemShep.

 

Then, ME2 came out and FemShep could romance Kelly (even though it didn't count as a full romance).  It was only then (after having no way to explain away FemShepXKelly as not being a f/f relationship) that they reneged on their statement and said that they'd address m/m content in ME3.  All in all, it was embarrassing.

I am just at a lost of words because of how stupid this is...
I mean how could they even think that was a good idea?

[Vapaa]

I am just at a lost of words because of how stupid this is...
I mean how could they even think that was a good idea?

Well you know it was 2007 things were diff...

[remebers MGSV and Halo 4]

Nope nevermind, shitty excuses are still the norm.

[Cyonan]

And what would be satisfactory to you? Bashing the character just because they expressed their feelings (or attraction)? Just because "NOHOMO?" (or for the girls: I'm not interested so I need to be an ass?) Really? That just proves my point lol

 

I did once know a guy who legitimately believed the only reason for a guy to be nice to a girl was because he wanted to bang her.

[straykat]

I did once know a guy who legitimately believed the only reason for a guy to be nice to a girl was because he wanted to bang her.

 

Probably the insecure, jealous type too.. where he projects that on others.

[Cyonan]

Probably the insecure, jealous type too.. where he projects that on others.

 

I never really talked to him long enough to find out, though it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

 

All I know is that he kept saying I was trying to steal a friend of mine away from her husband, simply based on the fact that I wasn't being an ass to her.

[Inquisitor_Jonah]

I did once know a guy who legitimately believed the only reason for a guy to be nice to a girl was because he wanted to bang her.

I know a lot of guys that are like this, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they started to pee in everything to mark their territory. Seriously most hetero guys are so stupid u.u

[Nattfare]

I know a lot of guys that are like this, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they started to pee in everything to mark their territory. Seriously most hetero guys are so stupid u.u

 

Gives the rest of us a bad name then.

[Inquisitor_Jonah]

Gives the rest of us a bad name then.

I didn't say all of them

[straykat]

I know a lot of guys that are like this, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they started to pee in everything to mark their territory. Seriously most hetero guys are so stupid u.u

 

lol... just when you liked my post.

 

I'm a hetero guy. I'm just not a fool. Big difference. No, seriously....

[Nattfare]

I didn't say all of them

 

I know you didn't.

 

When it is "most" though, the rest will easily be dragged along in that too.

[Inquisitor_Jonah]

I know you didn't.

 

When it is "most" though, the rest will easily be dragged along in that too.

I know, bad choice of words I guess ;P I suffer a lot from generalization too, my apologies xD

 

lol... just when you liked my post.

 

I'm a hetero guy. I'm just not a fool. Big difference. No, seriously....

Like I said, bad choice of words. Most of my bros are straight and we get along very well. But this alpha dog behavior gets in my nerves kkkk

[straykat]

I know, bad choice of words I guess ;P I suffer a lot from generalization too, my apologies xD

 

Like I said, bad choice of words. Most of my bros are straight and we get along very well. But this alpha dog behavior gets in my nerves kkkk

 

I don't think it's alpha or whatever. He's trying too hard.

 

I can understand struggling with a platonic relationship with someone you like, but taken or unavailable.. but to say being nice to all women means you have ulterior motives is ridiculous.

[JosieRevisited]

I am just at a lost of words because of how stupid this is...
I mean how could they even think that was a good idea?

 

It's partly just not thinking, and partly a result of still being fixated on one specific demographic that for whatever reason, reacts really, REALLY strongly to any male homosexual content. Incidentally, it was assumed that no one would call them out on it because their target audience was all heterosexual males that would never even consider Kaidan as a romantic interest and thus would never miss it. It's equal parts of obliviousness, ignorance, dismissal, and erasure. 

 

The reason that Casey (and many others who made this argument) misstepped was the confusion over the word "monogendered" which is how Liara describes her race. The word was often confused with "nongendered" or "genderless", rather than what it actually means - single gendered, and in this case (and in any case where such a species would be successful given what we currently know about reproduction) that gender is female. That gender has to be what we understand as 'female'. Even setting aside her design having all the expected traits of a humanoid female, we know from some animals on our own planet that if a monogendered species would exist, they are going to be girls. 

 

In the end I think it was mostly just a guy with a little residual dudebro in him, who doesn't really understand science all that much putting his foot in his mouth and trampling all over a smarter guy's lore and initial thought process (which was correct). Casey is gone, though, so with any luck this sort of thing will just disappear. 

[Han Shot First]

Wasn't it Priestly who got confused over what monogendered meant, or am I just remembering that wrong? I thought Priestly was the one who gave the excuse that Liara didn't count as a potential same-sex LI rather than Casey Hudson.

[vbibbi]

It's partly just not thinking, and partly a result of still being fixated on one specific demographic that for whatever reason, reacts really, REALLY strongly to any male homosexual content. Incidentally, it was assumed that no one would call them out on it because their target audience was all heterosexual males that would never even consider Kaidan as a romantic interest and thus would never miss it. It's equal parts of obliviousness, ignorance, dismissal, and erasure. 

 

The reason that Casey (and many others who made this argument) misstepped was the confusion over the word "monogendered" which is how Liara describes her race. The word was often confused with "nongendered" or "genderless", rather than what it actually means - single gendered, and in this case (and in any case where such a species would be successful given what we currently know about reproduction) that gender is female. That gender has to be what we understand as 'female'. Even setting aside her design having all the expected traits of a humanoid female, we know from some animals on our own planet that if a monogendered species would exist, they are going to be girls. 

 

In the end I think it was mostly just a guy with a little residual dudebro in him, who doesn't really understand science all that much putting his foot in his mouth and trampling all over a smarter guy's lore and initial thought process (which was correct). Casey is gone, though, so with any luck this sort of thing will just disappear. 

Bioware really really needs to get better PR people. I don't know if they have any in house or they use EA's people, but they have never seemed to do well in communicating to fans, verbally or in writing. I'm flashing back to the drop of old gen systems for DAI DLC as "good news!"

[SardaukarElite]

Bioware really really needs to get better PR people. I don't know if they have any in house or they use EA's people, but they have never seemed to do well in communicating to fans, verbally or in writing. I'm flashing back to the drop of old gen systems for DAI DLC as "good news!"

 

If we're talking about ME1 then that was originally published by Microsoft. At any rate BioWare seems to handle direct communication (forums, letters, twitter) with their community managers and various lead developers. I assume EA handles the trailers and bigger markety things though. 

[daveliam]

Wasn't it Priestly who got confused over what monogendered meant, or am I just remembering that wrong? I thought Priestly was the one who gave the excuse that Liara didn't count as a potential same-sex LI rather than Casey Hudson.

 

It might have been.  To be honest, I can't remember if it was Casey, Chris, or Ray who made those statements.  It might have been one of them or some combination.  My initial thought was that it was Casey who made the "asari aren't females" statement and Ray who made the "Shep isn't gay" statement, but it might have been Chris who made the first one.

[PCThug]

It's partly just not thinking, and partly a result of still being fixated on one specific demographic that for whatever reason, reacts really, REALLY strongly to any male homosexual content. Incidentally, it was assumed that no one would call them out on it because their target audience was all heterosexual males that would never even consider Kaidan as a romantic interest and thus would never miss it. It's equal parts of obliviousness, ignorance, dismissal, and erasure. 

 

<snip>

This is a very fair interpretation of events and is probably close to what happened.

 

If anything, BW's initial response is a good reminder to all that sometimes it's better to say "We overlooked that. We'll do better going forward," then to dig your heels in and insult the intelligence of your players while you're at it.

[straykat]

I think it's funny that people are glad Casey is gone. Mass Effect wouldn't even have existed without him.

[Getorex]

I think it's funny that people are glad Casey is gone. Mass Effect wouldn't even have existed without him.

 

That fact may actually come back to bite since, as you say, it wouldn't have existed at all without him.  You could get something worse, or more hopefully, something even better...

 

Wait and see. 

[Getorex]

It might have been.  To be honest, I can't remember if it was Casey, Chris, or Ray who made those statements.  It might have been one of them or some combination.  My initial thought was that it was Casey who made the "asari aren't females" statement and Ray who made the "Shep isn't gay" statement, but it might have been Chris who made the first one.

 

They AREN'T gendered.  Earthworms aren't gendered yet they self-mate.  Bacteria aren't gendered but they can replicate directly via fission, OR they can share some genetic material with some other bacteria and produce a mixed off-spring bacteria from there.  The only reason most people THINK Liara and the others are female is because the modelers gave them boobs and womanly curves.  They could just as well have made them look like Hanar and with a voice of no identifiable gender.  You wouldn't then be able to claim "they're all females because they only have one gender and it makes babies directly".  Not how it works.  Gender only works as a label when there is another gender to differentiate it from. 

 

Suppose a trinary alien species:  they mate via genetic sharing of information in threes.  Two offer up genetic material to the third and it is the third that carries fertilized eggs that develop into offspring. They LOOK identical otherwise but the third is younger.  Thing is, they all go through a period of being that third recipient member but then all become the donor member type as they age.  You couldn't call them male or female.  The two donors may be roughly analogous to Male while the third is roughly analogous to Female but that would be a fairly meaningless label.  They are identical in all ways, going through the same development process and all developing the same secondary characteristics. 

 

A mono-gendered species isn't really gendered at all except as analogy.