316 réponses à ce sujet

[Getorex]

I think Kaidan was always bi but never came out. So hopefully that makes you feel a bit better.

I disagree with the toggle. Kaidan being closeted, but also able to be a bro or a boyfriend is part of who he is, and in a game where we get to fall in love with each character, it would make no sense to change parts of them.

 

They don't have "parts" except in the individual player's mind.  Kaiden isn't gay or bi to me, he's LIKE me.  He doesn't have a secret life I don't know about.  He has a handful of lines and I have a handful of lines with him.  If no toggle, then the DA:I clear conversation choices that make romance initiation unambiguous and NOT accidental or incidental.  

[Getorex]

You know I realized why Kaidan was the right choice to sacrifice, it's simply because his dialogue is more adamant that he be the one to be sacrificed, Ashley more the whole say the right thing, "No, it should be me!" It seems more diplomatic... like she says it because she wants to make sure she said the right things, but is also placing it delicately in a way so that if you go "Ok Ash I'm getting Kaidan cya" she would at least a little bit (crap! I didn't really mean that!)

 

Apparently in the voice files there was an option to save both, which would of been the based if they put that in instead.

 

He was the right choice to die because Ashley. Yummy Ash.  

 

Just because Ashley.

[SentinelMacDeath]

It's an immersion breaking thing.  

 

Think this way:  

 

You and this girl are friends, been friends for a long time, do things together, have a good time.  You have ZERO romantic feelings for her. She's like a sister to you.  One night she flirts/makes a move on you.  Oops. She clearly is into you in a way that you are not into her. That doesn't just turn off.  It's not a switch.  You are not going to remain friends like you were. Impossible. She's embarrassed and perhaps hurt, still pining away for you. You have no interest. 

 

The end.  Works the other way around. I CANNOT be friends with a girl I want but who doesn't want me back. I WANT to make it go romantic, I WANT it to be romantic, she's interested in some other guy.  Can't go on being "buddies" because that is ALWAYS sitting there.  I cannot just switch it off, no one can.  The relationship changes in an instant and cannot recover to what it was.  

 

Doing that with a character in a game where you were otherwise immersed, breaks it.  It's not "realistic" to think you can just say "no" and all's well.  The bag was dropped right there at your feet and cannot undrop.

 

It's a matter of writing and making sure choices are clearer BEFORE you get to points you didn't want.  It's just a game, sure, but while you're playing it, if it is written and graphic'd well, it takes you into it to some extent.  Getting kicked out of it is...not fun.  Is disruptive.  It's survivable, sure, but it isn't necessary.

 

Meh, I've been friends with someone who turned me down and he's one of my best friends still, 6 years later. Life goes on. Sometimes YOU are the problem. If you can't keep a friendship going, well, you'll just have to move on. 

 

I think it's very much realistic when someone develops feelings for you over the course of time and friendship. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Not every love story starts with love at first sight. 

[Chardonney]

The flirt is the ruin right there.

 

 

 

Plus it would be unlikely that suddenly out of the blue he's into you when he wasn't at all in ME1 (besides, he never survives ME1 to go there because Ashley's just better and hotter but, hey).

 

Actually the bottle is and it's your choice to buy it and give it.

 

Kaidan and Ashley were actually originally written to be bi in ME1 but they cut it out.

 

 

On a side note, if any of my friends suddenly confessed their feelings toward me, I would let them down gently but I definitely wouldn't abandon them because of it. That would be cruel and not what a true friend does. Of course, everyone reacts differently.  

[daveliam]

The flirt is the ruin right there.

If I'm buddies with a guy for a long time and suddenly he FLIRTS with me, friendship over. "DUDE! WTF? We've ALWAYS been bros, not hand-holders. Why did you go there? Now I have to think about everything I say wondering if it's going to send the wrong signal and...why the HELL didn't you let me know long ago you were gay? It would have made things SO much easier henceforth because you'd know I'm not and I'd know you are and never the two love lives would meet."

Plus it would be unlikely that suddenly out of the blue he's into you when he wasn't at all in ME1 (besides, he never survives ME1 to go there because Ashley's just better and hotter but, hey).

Wow, you are a pretty shitty friend then.

[CuriousArtemis]

If I'm buddies with a guy for a long time and suddenly he FLIRTS with me, friendship over. "DUDE!  WTF?  We've ALWAYS been bros, not hand-holders.  Why did you go there?  Now I have to think about everything I say wondering if it's going to send the wrong signal and...why the HELL didn't you let me know long ago you were gay?  It would have made things SO much easier henceforth because you'd know I'm not and I'd know you are and never the two love lives would meet."

 

Wow you sound like a great person! Just kidding you sound like a real jerk.

 

I'm not saying you are a jerk but that you sound like one. Because the above scenario is clearly illustrating the behavior of a jerk. The guy who confessed his feelings is well rid of him. He probably lives in a basement, doesn't bathe, and has no friends. I'm just basing this off the hypothetical scenario above. Not you. This is not a personal attack. Though if you were like the person in the scenario above, you'd be a real jerk with no real friends. But of course I'm not talking about you.

[CuriousArtemis]

I think it's very much realistic when someone develops feelings for you over the course of time and friendship. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Not every love story starts with love at first sight. 

 

It's the #1 reason why I think M!Shenko is one of the best written romances in all BioWare games A friendship turned romance is such a beautiful thing, and I enjoyed it so much more than "You're hot, let's bang" we get from other games/romances. 

[Belial]

It's an immersion breaking thing.  

 

Think this way:  

 

You and this girl are friends, been friends for a long time, do things together, have a good time.  You have ZERO romantic feelings for her. She's like a sister to you.  One night she flirts/makes a move on you.  Oops. She clearly is into you in a way that you are not into her. That doesn't just turn off.  It's not a switch.  You are not going to remain friends like you were. Impossible. She's embarrassed and perhaps hurt, still pining away for you. You have no interest. 

 

The end.  Works the other way around. I CANNOT be friends with a girl I want but who doesn't want me back. I WANT to make it go romantic, I WANT it to be romantic, she's interested in some other guy.  Can't go on being "buddies" because that is ALWAYS sitting there.  I cannot just switch it off, no one can.  The relationship changes in an instant and cannot recover to what it was.  

 

Doing that with a character in a game where you were otherwise immersed, breaks it.  It's not "realistic" to think you can just say "no" and all's well.  The bag was dropped right there at your feet and cannot undrop.

 

It's a matter of writing and making sure choices are clearer BEFORE you get to points you didn't want.  It's just a game, sure, but while you're playing it, if it is written and graphic'd well, it takes you into it to some extent.  Getting kicked out of it is...not fun.  Is disruptive.  It's survivable, sure, but it isn't necessary.

 

Sorry but dropping a friend because of that is pretty crappy. Unless that friend also wanted to end our friendship of course. I have no reason to be scared away by the other person's feelings.

 

You can't control people in real life so I'm not sure how controlling the characters' behavior would make the game more immersive.

[Getorex]

Wow, you are a pretty shitty friend then.

 

 

No. I know human nature.

 

It royally SUCKS to be the one who wants someone who doesn't want you back. Being NOT a machine, cannot turn that off and forget it.  Every interaction with that person is wanting more from that person but can't have it so...no thanks.  Goes both ways.  

[Getorex]

Sorry but dropping a friend because of that is pretty crappy. Unless that friend also wanted to end our friendship of course. I have no reason to be scared away by the other person's feelings.

 

You can't control people in real life so I'm not sure how controlling the characters' behavior would make the game more immersive.

 

Sure, it's EASY to be the one who doesn't reciprocate. You don't have a problem with always wanting more or hating to see the other with someone not you.  That's for the sap who looks at you with puppy eyes all the time to no avail.

[Stakrin]

No. I know human nature.

It royally SUCKS to be the one who wants someone who doesn't want you back. Being NOT a machine, cannot turn that off and forget it. Every interaction with that person is wanting more from that person but can't have it so...no thanks. Goes both ways.

Nah. I've been there. It was awkward but our friendship worked out fine ultimately. We just never talked about it again.

[vbibbi]

... I have no problem with Cortez before all these pro homosexual people start flaming me in this thread, he was a bad ass. ..

Phew, I'm glad us pro-homosexual types can see that you pro heterosexual types have nothing against the homosexuals. Yes indeed, the pro homosexuals can tell that you are not in any way uncomfortable.

 

You know I realized why Kaidan was the right choice to sacrifice, it's simply because his dialogue is more adamant that he be the one to be sacrificed, Ashley more the whole say the right thing, "No, it should be me!" It seems more diplomatic... like she says it because she wants to make sure she said the right things, but is also placing it delicately in a way so that if you go "Ok Ash I'm getting Kaidan cya" she would at least a little bit (crap! I didn't really mean that!)

 

Apparently in the voice files there was an option to save both, which would of been the based if they put that in instead.

Do their ranks have any importance with priorities? I don't know how the military works, but does an officer have a more likely chance of being rescued than a soldier, if the estimated chances of survival are 50/50? I always assign Kaidan to the bomb, as his class makes more sense than Ash, so I always have that as my priority to save.

 

I'm pretty sure that Artifice has it right. You have to buy him the bottle of booze and deliver the 'gets better with age' line and then he flirts with you. I guess I can kind of see how someone might mistakenly flirt with him, but the 'gets better with age' line is kinda obviously flirty, no?

Either way, that's as far wait goes unless you continue to flirt with him, though. Basically, stop delivering flirty lines to the bisexual guy if you don't want said guy to flirt with you. It's not terribly difficult to avoid and then you can definitely go the 'bro' route with him. It's not only 'lovers' or 'by the books platonic co-worker'. There is a middle ground.

But what if the heterosexual says something that could be interpreted as flirty to his bro, but loses his nerve and freaks out when his bro reciprocates? It's clearly his bro's fault for responding!

 

It's not like he's throwing himself at you naked every time you turn a corner (I wouldn't mind that) 

Where can I download this mod?

[Belial]

Sure, it's EASY to be the one who doesn't reciprocate. You don't have a problem with always wanting more or hating to see the other with someone not you.  That's for the sap who looks at you with puppy eyes all the time to no avail.

 
It's not always like that. If I make it clear I'm not interested and that person wants to remain friends then they'll obviously have to get over those feelings.

 

Going back on topic, Kaidan doesn't look at you with puppy eyes or get mad if you start another romance. It's just you projecting your feelings on a character among a bunch of others that confess to you over the trilogy.

[daveliam]

No. I know human nature.

 

It royally SUCKS to be the one who wants someone who doesn't want you back. Being NOT a machine, cannot turn that off and forget it.  Every interaction with that person is wanting more from that person but can't have it so...no thanks.  Goes both ways.  

 

Meh.  I've been on both sides of this multiple times and have never let that get in the way of a friendship.  Sure, some of those friendships fizzled because the attraction was the primary thing spurring it on.  But it never became an awkward situation where the friendship had to be cut off altogether.

 

I'm not saying that your experience is wrong.  You feel how you feel.  But recognize that your feeling is far from the only way it can happen.  I don't think Bioware should institute that god awful toggle idea because of it.

 

That being said, I do like the idea of a romance indicator (like the heart icon in DA) that let's you know that you are 'flirting'.  I know some people find it unnecessary and, frankly, I kind of do as well.  But it seems like a nice middle ground to stop ninjamancing.  I hated getting ninjamanced by Ashley, Liara, and Leliana, so I'm fine with seeing it implemented. 

[Chardonney]

No. I know human nature.

 

It royally SUCKS to be the one who wants someone who doesn't want you back. Being NOT a machine, cannot turn that off and forget it.  Every interaction with that person is wanting more from that person but can't have it so...no thanks.  Goes both ways.  

 

Been there, very much so. He's a soldier, married now and even has a child but you know what, we're still good friends and will remain so. It all depends how both parties choose to handle the situation. So no, I don't think you know human nature because everyone's different; you only know your nature.  

 

But back on topic... I do like how they used the heart icon in DAI. That would definitely make things easier for many players.

[Gileadan]

That being said, I do like the idea of a romance indicator (like the heart icon in DA) that let's you know that you are 'flirting'.  I know some people find it unnecessary and, frankly, I kind of do as well.  But it seems like a nice middle ground to stop ninjamancing.  I hated getting ninjamanced by Ashley, Liara, and Leliana, so I'm fine with seeing it implemented. 

In retrospect, I have maybe gotten ninjamanced once or twice in my entire gaming career, but now that those heart icons are in, I found myself thinking less about dialogue options before I pick them. When all we had was the paraphrase of the replies we could select, I'd pause and ponder every time something looked like a potential flirt, and that generally worked fine for me. Nowadays I pay a bit less attention, sadly. There's an icon that tells me what a reply is about... like the dialogue version of quest GPS.

 

I'm not sure I like this realisation. 

[SentinelMacDeath]

 

Where can I download this mod?

 

Right? I need it too.. for science ...

[Ahglock]

This thread is NSFW. You end up laughing at people too loudly.

[Seraphim24]

Realy? Aw too bad they cut this out. If I had the option to save both, I would have done it at least once, even if I despise Ashley. I like to do at least one super paragon playtrough. I just cant sacrifice Kaidan to take her, but if I have the option, It would be a nice way to se her character develop.

 

So there was a way around the terribly contrived choice at Virmire. A shame they cut it. 

 

[Seraphim24]

 
It's not always like that. If I make it clear I'm not interested and that person wants to remain friends then they'll obviously have to get over those feelings.

 

Going back on topic, Kaidan doesn't look at you with puppy eyes or get mad if you start another romance. It's just you projecting your feelings on a character among a bunch of others that confess to you over the trilogy.

 

Taeyeon!

 

Spoiler

 

Hm the rest of this thread got a bit contentious so I guess I'm going to er, pass on all that..

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Aw man, that sounds like it would have been awesome. 

 

Also lol at the Garrus thing at the end. 

[Chardonney]

 

Oh, I love Garrus in the end. So cute. I wish I could download that into my cross-trainer, so he could say that after each workout. I think I'll just add it into my iPod, instead.

[Ahglock]

Aw man, that sounds like it would have been awesome.

Also lol at the Garrus thing at the end.

I'm glad they cut it. The everything always works out no matter how big you go is a much bigger problem than the so called contrived death of one of them. It one one of the few duality choices that one made sense and two had a cost.

[In Exile]

That being said, I do like the idea of a romance indicator (like the heart icon in DA) that let's you know that you are 'flirting'.  I know some people find it unnecessary and, frankly, I kind of do as well.  But it seems like a nice middle ground to stop ninjamancing.  I hated getting ninjamanced by Ashley, Liara, and Leliana, so I'm fine with seeing it implemented. 

I think it's more important for helping us sort out what the developers consider flirty. I've been often accused of being too flirty for my own good. Apparently my default mode of social interaction is "flirt", and lots of things I thought were totally innocent actually were interpreted as being flirty. So I can sort of understand the need for a symbol in games. But even for someone like me, I tend to think games are pretty obvious about their flirting. 

 

But I come right back to my "comical levels of sexual tension" point re: Kaiden and M!Shep in ME1-ME2. There are lots of situations where a come-on might be a bit out of the blue. But this is Alistair "licking a lampost in winter" levels of overt flirtation. Followed by his casual chat about being a virgin. 

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Sure, it's EASY to be the one who doesn't reciprocate. You don't have a problem with always wanting more or hating to see the other with someone not you.  That's for the sap who looks at you with puppy eyes all the time to no avail.

 

Has this ever actually happened to you?

 

Exactly one guy has hit on me.I didn't know him, so no awkwardness and I simply told him I wasn't interested. I saw him around university occasionally and didnt feel any particular awkwardness.