You're regurgitating your arguments after I've poked them full of holes.
The lore supports it.
It can be balanced like any other aspect of the game.
If you think it's "a lame idea" and you "don't want it" that's your opinion, but I'm at the point where I believe you're the vocal minority now.
You haven't poked a hole in anything but go ahead and keep thinking that.
Explain to me why everyone has melee weapons on the other team and the lore doesn't support melee on our side?
Explain to me why a javelin that can fire through 10m is balanced yet a biotic sword wouldn't be, and how on earth a blunt weapon makes more sense to you when a bladed weapon doesn't?
You sir, are crazypants.
Exactly why I don't want a powerful melee attack. If there was any challenge getting into melee people might have a balance argument to make it powerful. When you can either easily cloak or teleport there why should you get a cookie. If it's solidly weaker than a shotgun blast at point blank I'm okay with melee balance wise. If you want powerful melee it should actually be on classes that have to work to get into melee, though I still don't think it's setting appropriate.
Swords are still a lame idea for the setting but melee in general when in the right situation can work. If people are actually carrying melee weapons which I still think is lame blunt weapons at least seem more lore friendly for mass effect weapons hitting with absurd force.
If you think Biotic Charge is going to make powerful melee attacks overpowered then you really ought to play ME3 MP on Gold or Platinum difficulty. Simply being in melee range is a massive risk in itself because of the abundance of enemies that can instantly kill you at that range.
Why should a gun with a fairly respectable effective range have better damage than the higher risk melee weapon from a balance standpoint? The Vanguard can charge before using either of those weapons, so the fact that they have a gap closer is completely irrelevant.
Also the codex does actually state "These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair." so it kind of does say fast objects. The biotic barrier that biotic classes have are generated from the user and you'd have more control over what they can block, but that's never been an actual gameplay mechanic.
You say that you don't think melee is setting appropriate, and yet it has been in all 3 Mass Effect games.
Explain to me why everyone has melee weapons on the other team and the lore doesn't support melee on our side?
Explain to me why a javelin that can fire through 10m is balanced yet a biotic sword wouldn't be, and how on earth a blunt weapon makes more sense to you when a bladed weapon doesn't?
You sir, are crazypants.
I already addressed this. I said unless you plan on making it like gold or platnum with the sync kill risk. If you want to make melee a huge risk then high damage balances that. If it's like silver or bronze no it doesn't.If you think Biotic Charge is going to make powerful melee attacks overpowered then you really ought to play ME3 MP on Gold or Platinum difficulty. Simply being in melee range is a massive risk in itself because of the abundance of enemies that can instantly kill you at that range.
s.
I already addressed this. I said unless you plan on making it like gold or platnum with the sync kill risk. If you want to make melee a huge risk then high damage balances that. If it's like silver or bronze no it doesn't.
And. Yes it says fast moving and the only example for not triggering it is sitting down. There is a huge difference in speed between a punch or a knife strike and sitting down. It looks like to me ME2 I they fine tuned it already. Which given today's tech could notice the speed difference between sitting down and striking I think it's fitting. They could roll that gameplay back and it wouldn't break the lore but as is it's not specified.
And yes shotguns have a decent range which is a perk but so does biotic charge. So again not really balanced to put melee with no ammo costs on the same damage scale for classes like that. You want to talk soldier or adept and maybe the balance there would line up.
If it's like Silver or Bronze it doesn't matter because everything is broken and slaughters enemies like they're made out of paper. If anything melee is underpowered at that point because it's not wiping out entire groups of enemies at a time due to the single target nature of it.
My point is that biotic charge works for both shotguns and melee, and even gives a damage boost to shotguns. You're trying to tell me that slicing a Centurion's head off with a melee strike is broken because I can instantly close the gap, but killing them 5 times over with a Claymore is balanced.
Ammo cost is not nearly as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. Not even in SP where you aren't running into an ammo crate every 5 seconds.
If it's like Silver or Bronze it doesn't matter because everything is broken and slaughters enemies like they're made out of paper. If anything melee is underpowered at that point because it's not wiping out entire groups of enemies at a time due to the single target nature of it.
My point is that biotic charge works for both shotguns and melee, and even gives a damage boost to shotguns. You're trying to tell me that slicing a Centurion's head off with a melee strike is broken because I can instantly close the gap, but killing them 5 times over with a Claymore is balanced.
Ammo cost is not nearly as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. Not even in SP where you aren't running into an ammo crate every 5 seconds.
I like each class to be unique and have an impact if not on the story then on the cutscenes. Also it would be awesome to get special armors and weapons for every class, like the N7 armors from MP could be starter/final/customizable sets for each class like Fury for Adept, Slayer for Vanguard, Shadow for Infiltrator and etc. Special abilities like charge and adrenaline rush are already covered.
Ammo cost is just one factor. Speed of strikes, weight of weapon etc all play in to balance. There is something seriously off in a automatic rail gun setting when your better choice is to teleport in and pull a sword. At sliver it was on some classes. It makes the game more sure hero setting than it should be.
They can craft lore to make melee on a human that effective(have a cyberware power on soldier for example)I just think they will rule of cool hand wave **** like shadow strike, they can balance it I just don't think they are competent enough at balance to pull it off.(gun balance is pretty bad IMO for example)
Even the Claymore which is a single shot weapon with a lengthy reload time strikes about as fast as you can with heavy melee attacks, and weight isn't much of an argument given that weapons like the Hurricane and Talon are among the best in the game. Not to mention that with multiple melee weapons to choose from you can add weight to those, or whatever other system they're using in ME:A.
The only reason on Silver why using a sword was better than a gun was because the gun you were using was terrible and needed a buff or you weren't all that great with it. My Typhoon Adrenaline Rush Soldier will mow down groups of mobs much faster than a N7 Slayer will be able to melee them all to death.
If the lore has talked about how armour technology has advanced, then why would it be so hard to believe that melee weapons have also advanced?
Besides at this point, we're all basically wearing power armour anyway. You don't even need cyberware for enhanced physical strength.
Melee weapons did advance when they invented omniblades. Otherwise there isn't much to say. When ranged weapons are as deadly as melee weapons, they would always be favored by anybody with any sense, let alone when they are more deadly.
I'm just mad that Bioware had to go and add ****ing katanas into the game instead of sticking to stuff unique to their own lore. Weeaboos and japanophiles have way too much power in our world.
I'm just mad that Bioware had to go and add ****ing katanas into the game instead of sticking to stuff unique to their own lore. Weeaboos and japanophiles have way too much power in our world.
Weaboo? Lol yeah fuckin right dude, I dont even watch anime or give a **** about that stuff. I just wanted a katana cuz it was bad ass. Idk if you got jumped as a kid by kids wearing naruto headbands or something in middle school. But some people just want swords cuz they're badass.
And you must be a detective, you found out that I'm a Japan loving weaboo just off the fact that I thought the Slayer was a really cool class in ME3 and suggested that it could be even more fun on a next-gen console/PC with a whole new and improved melee system. Good detective work there, Sherlock. If you don't think its a good idea, don't use it if they add it, which they probably wont anyway.
I'm just mad that Bioware had to go and add ****ing katanas into the game instead of sticking to stuff unique to their own lore. Weeaboos and japanophiles have way too much power in our world.
To be honest, even though I am somewhat of a "weeaboo", I completely agree on the the katana point. They're really not very good even by the standards of pre-modern melee weapons, so to see people running around with them in a sci-fi setting - even one in which swords are a viable weapon - annoys me. You've got full access to futuristic science to come up with a melee weapon, and the best you can do is a poorly designed sword?
As an aside, I did love ME3 bayonets - both the physical ones and the omni-blades. Bayonets are great weapons, and ones still used today by some modern armies as a last resort. If I'm going to be in a melee fight, I'd much rather have an assault rifle with a hefty blade attached than a katana.
To be honest, even though I am somewhat of a "weeaboo", I completely agree on the the katana point. They're really not very good even by the standards of pre-modern melee weapons, so to see people running around with them in a sci-fi setting - even one in which swords are a viable weapon - annoys me. You've got full access to futuristic science to come up with a melee weapon, and the best you can do is a poorly designed sword?
As an aside, I did love ME3 bayonets - both the physical ones and the omni-blades. Bayonets are great weapons, and ones still used today by some modern armies as a last resort. If I'm going to be in a melee fight, I'd much rather have an assault rifle with a hefty blade attached than a katana.
You have a valid point, but that's sort of the reason it stood out to me in the first place. You're the main character of a video game that endures and survives crazy **** that would kill someone else ten times over. Its not suppose to make sense anyway, its a video game, your imagination is the limits. If I saw someone choppin everyone in half, biotic teleporting around everywhere i'd find that a whole hell of a lot scarier than someone with a sci-fi gun. Realistic and practical? Hello No! Crazy stupid, reckless, and awesome? Hell yeah! Plus if this game was realistic, through the first 3 games, after every mission we would have to spend 1-2 hours sitting at our desks filling out after action reports, mission details, etc. But that wouldn't be fun, would it? Not to mention the Lazarus Project? Because bringing someones dead charred remains back to life after they plummeted to the ground from the atmosphere/space is totally possible, but hey that was awesome too, so.
And you must be a detective, you found out that I'm a Japan loving weaboo just off the fact that I thought the Slayer was a really cool class in ME3 and suggested that it could be even more fun on a next-gen console/PC with a whole new and improved melee system. Good detective work there, Sherlock. If you don't think its a good idea, don't use it if they add it, which they probably wont anyway.
Wait, what?
I wasn't referring to you but our western society in general. There's way too much obsession about katanas as if they were the pinnacle of swordsmithing, even though there's nothing unique or special about them at all.
If Bioware wanted to emphasize melee combat in the game, it'd been the perfect opportunity to come up with something new and unique that's based on the lore of the ME universe (like the omni-blade itself, obviously), but instead they went for the most unimaginative solution of all - katanas.
If Bioware wanted to emphasize melee combat in the game, it'd been the perfect opportunity to come up with something new and unique that's based on the lore of the ME universe (like the omni-blade itself, obviously), but instead they went for the most unimaginative solution of all - katanas.
If only the vast majority of kits in the game actually used the omni-blade. Then maybe you could have 2 of them that still use a sword.
Wait, what?
I wasn't referring to you but our western society in general. There's way too much obsession about katanas as if they were the pinnacle of swordsmithing, even though there's nothing unique or special about them at all.
If Bioware wanted to emphasize melee combat in the game, it'd been the perfect opportunity to come up with something new and unique that's based on the lore of the ME universe (like the omni-blade itself, obviously), but instead they went for the most unimaginative solution of all - katanas.
My apologies then, I thought you were calling me out personally for making this thread and stating something I really likes from ME3 multiplayer. I personally really enjoyed it, it was new to me and nothing i've seen in a game like mass effect before. It doesn't have to be a katana, I never said that, An omni-sword or something would also be cool. I only stated that I liked the design and profile of the Slayer/Shadow, slim physique, agile, and near impossible to catch. So many people like these huge bulky heavily armored soldiers just tearing through everyone with shear firepower, but that just isn't a playstyle I like. And of course when I imagine this, its not someone sprinting towards heavily armed soldiers with a sword drawn, it would only be for close combat or some scenario where the enemy is in your face. I would have a hard time running through Insanity with only a sword, or "omni-sword", blade, whatever.
My apologies then, I thought you were calling me out personally for making this thread and stating something I really likes from ME3 multiplayer. I personally really enjoyed it, it was new to me and nothing i've seen in a game like mass effect before. It doesn't have to be a katana, I never said that, An omni-sword or something would also be cool. I only stated that I liked the design and profile of the Slayer/Shadow, slim physique, agile, and near impossible to catch. So many people like these huge bulky heavily armored soldiers just tearing through everyone with shear firepower, but that just isn't a playstyle I like. And of course when I imagine this, its not someone sprinting towards heavily armed soldiers with a sword drawn, it would only be for close combat or some scenario where the enemy is in your face. I would have a hard time running through Insanity with only a sword, or "omni-sword", blade, whatever.
I can totally respect that. 
You have a valid point, but that's sort of the reason it stood out to me in the first place. You're the main character of a video game that endures and survives crazy **** that would kill someone else ten times over. Its not suppose to make sense anyway, its a video game, your imagination is the limits. If I saw someone choppin everyone in half, biotic teleporting around everywhere i'd find that a whole hell of a lot scarier than someone with a sci-fi gun. Realistic and practical? Hello No! Crazy stupid, reckless, and awesome? Hell yeah! Plus if this game was realistic, through the first 3 games, after every mission we would have to spend 1-2 hours sitting at our desks filling out after action reports, mission details, etc. But that wouldn't be fun, would it? Not to mention the Lazarus Project? Because bringing someones dead charred remains back to life after they plummeted to the ground from the atmosphere/space is totally possible, but hey that was awesome too, so.
Yeah, rule of cool is great. But katanas aren't cool. They're boring. I can live with melee weapons. But make them good melee weapons. Not poorly designed and comically overused ones.
I already addressed this.
Like I said before, you're regurgitating the same arguments that don't make any sense when you take a step back at look at how narrow and based on personal opinion they are. You didn't "address" anything when your argument has no logical merit outside personal distaste. It can be balanced, and the whole galaxy is full of melee weapons already providing your lore.
You've basically said the same thing five times in slightly different ways and had two people try and show you how you're wrong. If you're not willing to look outside the box then this is the point where, "agree to disagree" comes in for me and I walk away smh.
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Yeah, rule of cool is great. But katanas aren't cool. They're boring. I can live with melee weapons. But make them good melee weapons. Not poorly designed and comically overused ones.
Melee weapons I want?
Not Katanas... =/ Maybe on one kit, if someone likes em.
I want a big bloody omni-claymore. A real claymore. With nice slow brutal animations that hits like a biotech truck.
A 2h-maul like the Krolord's in MP. (2h for us puny humies)
A Sword Spear could be interesting on a Drell. Fast whirling animations, lighter damage.
But my favourite would be a krogan dual wielding single blade hand-axes.
As far as vorcha go, just leave them with their omni-claws. I love those things. Vorcha light melee chains and over cover grabs are amongst the best visuals in ME3MP.
Sure, as long as bringing a knife to a gunfight applies.
This.
I'm okay with some rule of cool, but swords in a futuristic setting where high powered fire arms exist and magic does not stretches my suspension of disbelief beyond the breaking point. Swords are obsolete weapons and that isn't going to change, even in a setting with shields that deflect high powered rounds but are vulnerable to melee attacks.
The problem with swords, even beyond the severe range disadvantage versus firearms, is that they monopolize the use of your hands. In order to use a sword, you have either have to be without a firearm entirely or replace a firearm with it. That's just clumsy and completely impractical for military use in anything even remotely resembling the real world.
I'd prefer melee attacks were limited to the omni tool blades or butt strokes and the like. Neither would require the protagonist to swap out his or her assault rifle for a goofy anachronistic blade on their back, and I think either fits any action movie rule of cool requirements just as much as a sword. Imagine for example doing a vanguard charge in a hostile enviroment, cracking an enemy's face plate with a butt stroke, and then seeing that character suffocate as their oxygen vents into the vacuum. Or on a low gravity enviroment, say like the surface of an asteroid, the enemy getting his or her magboots knocked off the surface and tumbling off into space.
I'd be against swords and the like even being an optional spec/loadout for the protagonist, because I'd fear that if it exists for the protagonist Bioware would also make banzai-charging swordsmen for enemies and/or a squadmate or two. It would most likely be impossible to avoid, even if the player character was a pure shooter.
I think a good middle ground would be replacing actual swords or katanas with omni-swords. They would serve the same purpose without having to be carried around or grabbed to perform attacks. I'm not sure why they didn't do that in the first place really. We even have omni-crossbows.
I'd be against swords and the like even being an optional spec/loadout for the protagonist, because I'd fear that if it exists for the protagonist Bioware would also make banzai-charging swordsmen for enemies and/or a squadmate or two. It would most likely be impossible to avoid, even if the player character was a pure shooter.
Isn't it a little late for that?
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