84 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashagar]

The trouble is we don't know much about ancient humanity including what they might have been capable of or not as the all the sites of ancient humanity and likely physical sites fall until two categories, beyond the continent of Thedas or in the north of Thedas in Tevinter to which the southern chantry is hostile towards. Perhaps we will learn more once we go to Tevinter.

[Master Warder Z_]

The trouble is we don't know much about ancient humanity including what they might have been capable of or not as the all the sites of ancient humanity and likely physical sites fall until two categories, beyond the continent of Thedas or in the north of Thedas in Tevinter to which the southern chantry is hostile towards. Perhaps we will learn more once we go to Tevinter.

 

Tempest hints to me at least that humanity were VERY magically capable pre Andraste, pre Imperium even. Of course that's reliant upon the placement of a item in a dungeon so...*shrugs* I just found it interesting that a Fereldan tribesmen stave was found in a Imperium research base, in a desert in Orlais. 

[nightscrawl]

I must admit I find that conversation by Fenris not to be entirely credible because I very much doubt any of the Dalish, even clan Sabrae who are familiar with Fenris, would be discussing an imminent gathering of the clans with an outsider.

I might agree if Fenris had shown any past instances of falsehood during the entire game, even just to goad someone. But he doesn't.

 

 

[edit]

My original post was considerably more aggressive. Suffice to say that I disagree that he is "trolling," and despite the fact that your reasons as to why he might not know being sound, it still relies on the premise that he is lying just to goad her.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 13 décembre 2015 - 04:05 .

[Gervaise]

So Fenris cannot tell a lie?     As I say, the information was inaccurate, even if the clan had spoken with him, because they would not be gathering at Halamshiral. (Although it could be the elves told him a falsehood deliberately so he wouldn't know where they were meeting).   Given all the horrible things he says to Merrill throughout the game, a lie about the elves seems mild by comparison.   (And I'm a Fenris fan).  Also, I seem to recall that he originally meets Hawke through a falsehood that was using them as bait.   

 

Anyway, I'm rather hopeful that since it is strongly hinted we are heading to Tevinter next, the next big lore reveal will be concerning the ancient human civilisations.    We've had the big expose on what really happened with the elves and we have been given new information concerning the origins of the dwarves, so discovering what really happened with the early humans would seem to be the next logical step.    May be a bit more about the qunari too.     The odd thing is that both races seem to have a story about them coming from over the sea and both apparently started off in the north and spread from there.    I'm pretty sure there has to be something in the Tevinter archives that will throw some light on the subject.   

[In Exile]

So Fenris cannot tell a lie?     As I say, the information was inaccurate, even if the clan had spoken with him, because they would not be gathering at Halamshiral. (Although it could be the elves told him a falsehood deliberately so he wouldn't know where they were meeting).   Given all the horrible things he says to Merrill throughout the game, a lie about the elves seems mild by comparison.   (And I'm a Fenris fan).  Also, I seem to recall that he originally meets Hawke through a falsehood that was using them as bait.   

 

Anyway, I'm rather hopeful that since it is strongly hinted we are heading to Tevinter next, the next big lore reveal will be concerning the ancient human civilisations.    We've had the big expose on what really happened with the elves and we have been given new information concerning the origins of the dwarves, so discovering what really happened with the early humans would seem to be the next logical step.    May be a bit more about the qunari too.     The odd thing is that both races seem to have a story about them coming from over the sea and both apparently started off in the north and spread from there.    I'm pretty sure there has to be something in the Tevinter archives that will throw some light on the subject.   

 

If there's an error, it's the writers' meta-error. The point of Merrill's story is the degree to which she's ostracized. With respect to the Dalish, the point is that they're so obsessed with their way that they can't even countenance actually exploring their past in a meaningful way that might lead to a path forward in the future. For Merrill, the story is a cautionary tale about pride and self-importance - she allowed her entire clan to fall because she couldn't, even for a moment, conceive that maybe she wasn't the all that important, and that Audacity was just using her to get to Marethari. 

 

But anyway, that banter is just meant to show how isolated Merrill has become, for no good reason apart from the Dalish's own arrogance. The writers tend to be a bit inconsistent with how over-the-top racist Dalish elves are re: city elves, so talking to the marked-up Fenris (remember, Merril remarks how his lyrium marks look like vassalin) is not unreasonable. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Ah Fenris and Merrill by far my favorite dynamic in DA2.

 

With such gems as.

 

Merrill: Pol...What was he thinking?...He acted like I was a monster...

Fenris: You are a monster.

Isabela: You aren't helping.

Fenris: Good.

[Gervaise]

I'm not stupid, I know full well why they put in that speech but it was out of place. I also think it wasn't necessarily designed to illustrate how isolated she was but actually as a rather poor attempt at humour.   I seem to recall it was part of the MoA DLC.

 

The Dalish regard elves not of their ranks as inferior and not "true" elves.   Whilst not all clans are like the one in Masked Empire concerning welcoming city elves to join them, that essentially is what makes the difference.   A city elf who is asking to join has recognised that the previous existence was subservient to humans and they are better off trying to make their way in the wilds, however hard that life might be.    They have joined the ranks of the last of the elvhen who will never again submit.  Now they might respect Fenris because he had escaped from a life of slavery and would no doubt welcome him if he wished to join the Dalish but I really can't see them sharing information about what the clans are planning unless he had actually joined their ranks.  Until he did so, he would still be regarded as an outsider, particularly as he continued to live within the city of Kirkwall.

 

Fenris' previous experience of them clearly was negative because he mentions how they consider themselves superior.   So clearly they didn't put him on a par with themselves simply because he was an escaped slave.   Merrill says his tattoos are similar to vallaslin, but no Dalish would actually mistake them for such.    The daft part about that conversation is that you can play MoA anytime during DA2, so potentially this could be after  you had wiped out her clan, in which case, who are the elves that Fenris was talking to?    There were no other Dalish in the area.     The reason Merrill was ostracised by her clan was that she rejected the advice of her Keeper and was consorting with demons, which the clan as a whole were understandably anxious about.   That had nothing to do with Dalish arrogance, but common sense (as Felassan points out in Masked Empire).   If Merrill had abandoned her dangerous way of doing things, she would have been welcomed back (at least she would have done before the death of Marethari).   

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Dalish regard elves not of their ranks as inferior and not "true" elves. 

 

Not every single individual one of them though. Is it so hard to believe that at least one Dalish spoke to Fenris about it once? He might not even have laerned it directly from a Dalish, maybe one of them spoke to one in the alienage and he learned it from them.

[Ashagar]

Yes many dalish elves look down on the city elves who also look down on the dalish. They are both proud people however we should keep in mind there are exchanges between the city elves and dalish elves, some city elves go off to join the dalish and some dalish elves end up joining the city elves for various reasons.

 

Its quite possible Fenris could have learned information from a dalish elf that joined the city elves.

[Master Warder Z_]

Not every single individual one of them though.