That doesn't necessarily mean 'literally' more, just that when people start worshipping you, you're not the regular joe you used to be as people start seeing you as something more. Kind of what happened to the Inquisitor.
I do not wanna copy-paste the reply that I already made, so I will just say that he might actually be right... It's possible that by "worship make you more" cole meant "worship makes you more powerful".
Nice post and good read.
Thanks for putting the facts together and for showing us.
A question that came to my mind is; What is a spirit?
Did they exist the same way as they do today when the Fade wasn't there and when the
veil wasn't seperating their world from the rest of Thedas?
I don't think so. Something must've been different than today.
For they are impersonations of feelings (a veeeery simple way to put it), I do think that they
were kind of more connected with non-spirit-beings. When the Fade was created, and the very
essence of magic was locked away behind the veil, they got detached and banned.
So.. is there a possibility that every human/elven/whatever being was part "human" and part
"spirit" and that the veil seperated both parts? Since Solas was already existing before
this seperation came up, he maybe still got both parts connected inside is mind. That could
be the reason why Cole's "You're different, Solas. Sharper. You're in both places".
Nice post and good read.
Thanks for putting the facts together and for showing us.
A question that came to my mind is; What is a spirit?
Did they exist the same way as they do today when the Fade wasn't there and when the
veil wasn't seperating their world from the rest of Thedas?
I don't think so. Something must've been different than today.
For they are impersonations of feelings (a veeeery simple way to put it), I do think that they
were kind of more connected with non-spirit-beings. When the Fade was created, and the very
essence of magic was locked away behind the veil, they got detached and banned.
So.. is there a possibility that every human/elven/whatever being was part "human" and part
"spirit" and that the veil seperated both parts? Since Solas was already existing before
this seperation came up, he maybe still got both parts connected inside is mind. That could
be the reason why Cole's "You're different, Solas. Sharper. You're in both places".
Hmmmmm, I am starting to think that spirits are "people" too. Solas complained that Chantry does not consider spirits people only because they exist without form. Which means they were people before ,and if they were people it is possible they could had been marked with a Vallaslin. Eh, it's all so complicated 
I think you are right on this, I like to think of them as stand-alone individuals too. I'm just going through some ideas of what they were before the Fade existed.
I find it hard to believe that they were ordinary people.
In DA2, Anders said that the (good) spirits are "the maker's first children". This indicates some sort of hierarchy within the creations of the makers. So spirits are some kind of superior beings, for the maker's second children (mages for example) and third (ordinary people maybe) came later OR suffer from some lower form of existence.
Anders repeats what the Chantry says. I would not base my theoy on their beliefs :v
Much of what we have previously been told about spirits came from either Andraste herself or filtered through the Chantry. However, Anders actually had a spirit co-existing with him, so presumably Justice must have been able to give him some insights.
Strangely enough Solas reminds me a lot of Justice/Anders. Anders on his own was a pretty regular sort of guy. He was a bit selfish and self absorbed but his principle specialty was as a spirit healer, which suggests he did care about others. Then Justice suggests that instead of just worrying about his own freedom, he should consider the fate of his fellow mages as well. So they merge and Anders becomes far more focussed and single minded. He still opens a clinic to help the poor of Kirkwall (which the old Anders probably would have done too) but it is the mage situation that really directs his attention, particularly after what happened to Karl. Thereafter he is working towards bringing the Chantry and the Circles down. That is rather like Solas with the evanuris. He seemed content not to take action against them, despite the fact that they were already false gods and slaves suffered under them, until they killed Mythal. That was what focussed his attention.
Then he became obsessed with the fact that raising the Veil didn't have the desired effect and he had freed the elves, only for them to be reduced in power and enslaved again. So now he wants to put things back the way they were, regardless of the affect it will have on so many innocent bystanders. Just as Justice/Anders blew up the Chantry in Kirkwall without thinking about the collateral damage or the implications for the other mages. In fact he says to Orsino "You were dead already", because living inside the Gallows under Meredith was no sort of existence to his mind, just as Solas didn't see the survivors of his actions as real people, but tranquil. It is very much the single minded obsession of a spirit. However, when both draw on their mortal persona, they are able to empathise with their victims; Anders was surprised if you spared him because he fully expected to die for what he had done and I think this may lie behind the whole redeem him or kill him option for Solas.
If you were rivalled with Anders, tried to find out what he was going to do before he set the bomb off and dissuade him from his plan, Justice comes to the fore and gets very aggressive with you. Clearly he didn't want you getting to the "human" Anders and persuading him otherwise. So it will be interesting to see if a similar sort of thing happens with Solas.
I was reminded by a poster at work yesterday of the old native Amercian story of the two wolves that war in your mind for dominance, one virtuous, humble and kind, the other arrogant, self pitying and destructive, and wondered if the writers drew on this idea for Solas. At the end of the parable the old storyteller says the wolf that wins is the one you feed. That could certainly apply to Solas.
Much of what we have previously been told about spirits came from either Andraste herself or filtered through the Chantry. However, Anders actually had a spirit co-existing with him, so presumably Justice must have been able to give him some insights.
That's what I thought too. I don't think you share a body without - willingly or no - also sharing some information,
ideas and feelings. Because of Justice, Anders has first-hand knowledge of spirits.
I was reminded by a poster at work yesterday of the old native Amercian story of the two wolves that war in your mind for dominance, one virtuous, humble and kind, the other arrogant, self pitying and destructive, and wondered if the writers drew on this idea for Solas. At the end of the parable the old storyteller says the wolf that wins is the one you feed. That could certainly apply to Solas.
I know this story.
It somehow falls into line with what you said: Both, Anders and Solas were able to follow the way of "the kind wolf",
the one with preferably peaceful intentions. The wolf, that got connected with others and was able to see the good
things, the chances. But at the very moment the other wolf got fed (Karl, Mythal) it became more powerful, overcame
the first wolf and went for its very own purposes in a vicious manner.
Both, Solas and Anders, are somehow alike.
I really fall for the tragic idea of doing the wrong thing because of noble and honorable intentions.
Wow, that is a very valid point OP. Cheers for sharing!
I'm really bad at theory-crafting so I don't have much to add, but I look forward to knowing if you were correct iin the future 
Wow, that is a very valid point OP. Cheers for sharing!
I'm really bad at theory-crafting so I don't have much to add, but I look forward to knowing if you were correct iin the future
Hehe, I am making a YouTube vid atm. I found more proves 
! Will send ya the link ?
I think the world ending is because two different paintings can't occupy the same canvas. Maybe Solas has to paint over the current one, or remove the current one to reveal the blank canvas. Or maybe, he has remove the current painting to reveal the original underneath.
My belief is that he must remove the Veil and bring back a merged world of Fade and Real in order for the world he remembers to be restored. The current people of Thedas will likely not be able to understand how this world will operate, and die as a result.
As for what Solas was originally, probably an elvhen, meaning an elf with a spirit. I think he was born and raised an elf with a physical body, and he had a spirit. Now, that spirit could have formed naturally, or it could be a spirit who existed before the body was made. I think the difference is just a matter of how soon Solas started learning things.
The "he didn't want a body" could mean he wanted to exist as a spirit only, or it could mean he was a spirit who did not want to take physical form in one way or another.
I don't think it matters much. The bottom line is that there are spirits and there are spirits who inhabit bodies. Both have their pros and cons. It seems spirits are better at manipulating the Fade and magic. Physical form spirits are better at understanding the physical world. Cole admires Solas because he is good at both manipulating the Fade and understanding the real world.
I think further exploration of this topic would benefit from comparisons to Justice in Kristof's corpse, as well as the comparison to Mythal (in the Well) and Flemeth.
Justice says he doesn't understand the real world all that well. He has memories to help him figure it out. He says the world seems static and not easily changed. The Spirit of Command observes the same thing. Justice also comments on the lyrium ring as singing like the Fade. This might be important.
Solas says in an early Haven dialogue that he grew up in a village to the north, with a low approval inquisitor he states this in a different dialogue again. Someone wrote a dialogue chart here.
This would fit to what you assume, that Solas was born and raised but with spirit as he says in Trespasser he was always like that (not like Flemythal).
If Mythal asked him to come and get a body, maybe this means that a spirit does not necessarily manifest as an adult (like Cole) but can be instead be born with a body? Maybe this is why Solas said "You may well become fully human, after all. I never thought to see it." to Cole because Cole got an adult body while Solas may only know of people (elves) who are born with a spirit.
I don't know, just trying to combine what we know. I don't think Solas is lying when he speaks about his childhood in the north. He normally does not try to outright lie about things and he could just not have mentioned it in the first place.
I have also been reminded of Zathrian. He extended his life by binding himself to a spirit. Although that was not his principle aim in doing this, that is what resulted. Then the other Dalish, not knowing about the spell he had cast to bring about the curse, assumed he had discovered the secret of their ancestors concerning immortality. When this link was broken, he died.
I'm wondering if this is another case where the Dalish half got it right. The secret of their ancestors lay in the fact that they were part spirit, part mortal. The raising of the Veil weakened the spirit part within them, so they lost their magical ability (that all spirits have), except those that were particularly strong in magic, where their ability was simply made less powerful, and also lost their immortality. In the end the only trace of what they originally were lay in the magical signature still found in their blood.
Alternatively, every elf once had a "guardian" spirit that they were intrinsically linked to in a sort of shared life. Hence what the evanuris said about the "People and their spirits". Then raising the Veil split them apart.
Whatever the case, I would be very surprised if the answer to dealing with the Solas problem didn't lie in the spirit world.
By the gods, the formatting here is atrocious!
The game does seem to point towards Solas having been a spirit before. We know from Cole that it's possible for spirits to get a physical body. There's also this interesting banter between Solas and Cole:
Solas: You may well become fully human, after all. I never thought to see it.
Cole: When did you see it before?
Solas: I didn't say that I had.
Cole: No you didn't. It's harder to hear sometimes. Sorry.
Solas isn't denying that he's seen it before, just that he never said he did. That's exactly the kind of double-speak he uses throughout he game.
Also I think it's exaggerating to say that the Dalish got everything wrong. Given the timeframe (a few millennia), the fact that they lost access to the Vir'Dirthara where all their written records were and that they were enalaved for a few centuries, they actually got the broad strokes right. They're mostly lacking in details. For example, they view vallaslin as a way to honor the gods, each god as a specific marking attributed to them. And well, all of that is true. In Arlathan it was just restricted to slaves. Another example: they teach that Fen'Harel locked away the gods, which is why they couldn't intervene in their war with the humans. That's correct too.
That Merrill quote is a bit out of context too. She means that there is no such thing as a good spirit and a bad demon, because spirits and demons are the same. That's what Solas says as well.
That banter isn't proof Solas was a spirit. It's proof that spirits becoming corporeal is actually something he's seen before.
Is not that what she said :v ?
I will actually be shocked if Solas isn't a spirit.
I believe there are a LOT of hints that suggest that the at least the Evanuris were all spirits first.
From Solas' subtle commentary to say the he was "Pride" (Solas) before he was Fen'Harel - the Dread Wolf.
To the Evanuris' banishment of the Forbidden Ones for refusing to keep corporeal forms.
I will actually be shocked if Solas isn't a spirit.
I believe there are a LOT of hints that suggest that the at least the Evanuris were all spirits first.
From Solas' subtle commentary to say the he was "Pride" (Solas) before he was Fen'Harel - the Dread Wolf.
To the Evanuris' banishment of the Forbidden Ones for refusing to keep corporeal forms.
You know what, I have not considered that by "I was Solas first" he could actually mean "I was a spirit/demon first". Tbh, I considered "I was Solas first" as a proof he was an elf first, but you it can be a proof for the the other option too. I will definitely add an annotation to the vid. Anyway... It seems that there are more proofs for Solas being a spirit first and a ... "body"... later. Humhum
We have to understand that the elven period of history was far less dualistic and concrete as we understand things. Language like "I was Solas before I was Fen'Harel" can mean both "I was an elven boy" and "I was Pride" and even "I was Wisdom (turned Pride)" at the same time. Their own way of life and communication and magic is a mish-mash of many things happening at once. The Dalish just collect the dregs, just as the Qunari likely collect their own, and the Chantry their own, etc etc.
Reminds me of the Inquisitor Is A Spirit theory. http://webcache.goog...n&ct=clnk&gl=ca
So that once we learn what's up with all this, that's the cue for the Inquisitor to understand what they themselves are, and their story finally concludes.
Anyway, great thread!! Provided some possible insights to wtf is going on with Solas.
The spirits were the first creations, even as mortals were the first 'people'. Solas' story technically beginning as a spirit (more or less) would fit this mythological framework.
In some sense we may learn, mortals could be the mirrors of spirits, instead of the other way around.
I rushed through the Old Temple in Jaws of Hakkon last night, and after beating Gurd I went to collect the first memory hovering around the statue of Haron and Orinna. The memory says something about Ameridan consulting his spirit companion, and it assured him of something I don't remember. But I just thought it odd that he mentioned a spirit companion. Was this spirit inside him, or beside him? Could this be the explanation for his ability to stop time or put him and the dragon in suspended animation?
I do not wanna copy-paste the reply that I already made, so I will just say that he might actually be right... It's possible that by "worship make you more" cole meant "worship makes you more powerful".
That's kinda what I am thinking too. And that's why the Evanuris were obsessed with worship. Something about how the more dreamers/ people entering the dominion of a spirit/demon the more powerful they become
Ameridan was from the old Inquisition where they devised the method of ensuring you become immune to possession and blood magic control of the mind that the Seekers use. This involves the intervention of a faith spirit. Whilst it is suggested this is a very risky thing to do with a mage, because of the risk of tranquillity, I assume that may be Ameridan did undergo the process, or something similar, to render him immune to possession and blood mages. At the very least he was a spirit medium, which is what Rhys is said to be, and this gives them a greater affinity with spirits than your average mage, So the spirit that Ameridan consulted with was probably a faith spirit with which he had a close connection and thus protected him. No doubt he could also consult with it when it might have a better insight than he would.
Of course it is also possible that he had made a connection with a spirit that previously interacted with the ancient elves and was attracted to him because of the fact that he was elven (the special magical signature in his blood). After all, not all spirits may share the view of Solas and Abelas that the modern elves aren't real People.
As for him stopping time, there were other instances of mages playing with time in the main game and time seemed to have been frozen in that old Tevinter ruin in the Western Approach. It seems to require drawing large amounts of power from the Fade. The Tevinter mages probably used blood magic to achieve this but faith spirits are said to be the most powerful of spirits and will work with mages they favour without the need of blood magic, so it is highly likely that it was Ameridan's faith spirit that helped him stop time.
It may be that utilising the knowledge and skills of faith spirits is going to be the key to stopping Solas. The problem is they seem pretty fickle themselves and don't aid just anyone. Also spirits do seem to get on really well with Solas but if nothing else they may be able to give some insight into how his mind works.
Spirits can grant bonuses to various attributes. Maybe venerating spirits works the same way. The dragon cultists worshiped the high dragon, and it seemed to have an understanding with them to where it would not kill them. I think this may have been how the old gods gained sentience. Gurd Haroffson channels Hakkon into himself and even a portion of that spirit transforms him into a revenant. And of course we have Anders and Justice. So it seems likely that Solas is the type who is a mage physically, but also has a powerful spirit merged with him. Or else the spirit is just his own, and that spirit is ancient and experienced in magic.
@Gervaise Your explanation of American seems correct to me.
I rushed through the Old Temple in Jaws of Hakkon last night, and after beating Gurd I went to collect the first memory hovering around the statue of Haron and Orinna. The memory says something about Ameridan consulting his spirit companion, and it assured him of something I don't remember. But I just thought it odd that he mentioned a spirit companion. Was this spirit inside him, or beside him? Could this be the explanation for his ability to stop time or put him and the dragon in suspended animation?
Oh , right. His companion spirit assured Ameridan that it was possible to seal the dragon away... Sounds a lot like a spirit of wisdom...
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