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The Fundamentally Flawed Premise(s) of Mass Effect: Andromeda


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#1
Arcian

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I'm basically making this thread to make some arguments why Mass Effect: Andromeda is a bad idea, mainly from plot perspectives.
 
I'm basing this stuff off of leaks, official news, statements, videos and common sense.
 
Premise: Humanity is in need of a new homeworld and decides to hike over to Andromeda to find one.
 
What we know: From the N7 Day teaser, we know for a fact they travel to Andromeda the long way in a ship. I.e, no wormholes or Mass Relay-esque devices. We know that most of the species we've gotten used to came along for the ride, for whatever (similar?) reasons. Given that the trip takes several centuries even at typical Mass Effect FTL speeds, it's logical to presume the ship needs to have viable populations for each of the travelling species to ensure biological diversity. In other words, the ship needs to be fairly big to accomodate for these populations.
 
Question: Why is humanity in the need of a new homeworld? If they are fleeing the Reapers, why did they choose to leave for Andromeda when either of the Magellanic Clouds are only a fraction of the distance away?
 
Because the Reapers somehow can't follow them that far?
 
If the Milky Way species, whose civilization evolved exclusively around the use of Mass Relays, are sufficiently advanced to develop a ship that can travel 2.5 million light years without having to discharge their drives or stop to find rogue planets to mine for power generation resources, what logical reason is there for the Reapers, the more technologically advanced species by far, being unable to follow them?
 
It would not matter how far they run, the Reapers would be able to chase them down no matter where they go.
 
It is because the Magellanic Clouds are close enough to be scanned by the Reapers? Not possible. Based on information provided in the game, the Reapers are roughly 30,000 light years out from the edge of the galaxy at the start of ME1. As we find out in ME1, the Reapers rely on their Vanguard, Sovereign, to scan the galaxy for advanced life. This basically tells us they don't have the capacity to scan for life in a 30,000 light year radius, let alone the 160,000 and 200,000 light years that spans the distance between the Milky Way and the Large Magellanic Cloud and Small Magellanic Cloud, respectively.
 
To conclude, there is no reason the Reapers could find the Ark Ship in the Magellanic Clouds unless they knew it was there.
 
If the "Ark Ship" is fleeing the Reapers, it must have done so during the events of Mass Effect 3. But in Mass Effect 3, the galactic economy was devoted towards building the Crucible, which was considered almost a pyrrhic endeavour from an economic perspective, in a "Building this thing will destroy the economy but if we don't we'll all die." kind of way.
 
So how was the galactic civilization able to fund the construction of the Ark Ship when virtually the entire economy was being funneled into the Crucible Project? Judging from the N7 Day teaser, it's quite massive, possibly on par with the Crucible itself in size, and unlike the Crucible, the Ark Ship's design would have to include technology that wasn't actually invented at that point, for example tech to travel long distances without discharging.
 
But let's presume the Asari Councilor's "continuity of civilization" plan is the Ark Ship. Let's even presume it was built BEFORE the Reaper War. This bypasses the funding issue and potentially the technology issue. The better question is why the Asari would spend a fortune (the kind of spending you couldn't possibly hide) on an intergalactic Ark Ship for the incredibly unlikely eventuality that something or someone causes the downfall of an entire galactic civilization.
 
A more reasonable (and affordable) contingency plan would be the one the Protheans - a race vastly richer and more technologically advanced - went with.
 
Assuming the Ark Ship isn't fleeing the Reapers, it must have made the journey after the Reaper War. This gives them ample of time to rebuild the economy, invent the missing technology and develop a realistic intergalactic mission. However, there is still the premise of humans finding a new homeworld, which implies the Earth has somehow been rendered uninhabitable.
 
So why would they go all the way to Andromeda for a new homeworld when they have a multitude of habitable colonies, and when the galaxy at large is rife with unclaimed garden worlds? What event could possibly have rendered every single life-bearing planet in the entire galaxy barren at the same time? Only the Reapers have the numbers and the technological capacity to carry out this kind of systematic destruction, but it would take hundreds of thousands if not millions of years to achieve - which is beside the point since this premise hinges on the Reapers having been defeated.
 
This idea is flawed because it stretches the willing suspension of disbelief to the breaking point by forcing the need to invent a threat vastly more destructive than even the Reapers, which exerts its destructive power on a scale the like of which not even supernovas and hypernovas are capable of.
 
If the Ark Ship isn't fleeing the Reapers, and assuming the part in the leaks about finding a homeworld is some kind of error or mistake and actually refers to finding a new colony for humans, why would they go to Andromeda before exhausting the garden planets available in the Milky Way? With only 1% of the Milky Way's stars charted, there is no reason, logical, economic or even practical, why they should skip the Milky Way's habitable systems, both Magellanic Clouds and mount a hugely expensive, hugely dangerous expedition to a galaxy 2.5 million light years away.
 
This idea is flawed because it makes no sense. As a comparison, NASA didn't mount a new space program to go to Alpha Centauri immediately after landing on the moon in the 1960s. There is literally no reason to even consider interstellar missions before the exploration of the solar system has been completed. The same goes for the Milky Way and intergalactic missions to Andromeda.
 
Moreover, this idea requires an explanation of what happned AFTER the Reaper War, which is something BioWare has been adamantly avoiding, in order to justify the move to Andromeda.
 
Premise: Andromeda takes place in a single star cluster called the Helios cluster.
 
Question: A star cluster, by definition, has at most a few thousand stars, and that's the globular type of clusters whose stellar density is prohibitive of the development of life. Open clusters, which are less volatile than globular clusters (and therefore more conducive to the development of life), usually only have a few hundred stars and are usually no larger than 30 light years in diameter.
 
Considering the rarity of habitable planets in the universe, especially planets finely tuned to support human life, why would the Pathfinder restrict his search for a new human homeworld to a single (presumably open) star cluster?
 
I can only assume the Pathfinder isn't the only Pathfinder, and that other clusters are being searched by other human Pathfinders simultaneously. Statistically, there's a fair chance to find a very Earth-like planet every 1000 stars (Earth-like in the sense that it supports life, not necessarily human life, carbon-based life or even multi-cellular life), so spreading out over multiple clusters is a good idea.

This isn't the main problem with the premise, however. The main problem is that because we're limited to a single star cluster, advanced, spacefaring species should be incredibly rare. This introduces a problem of diversity in terms of native alien species.
 
Looking at it this way, let's give Andromeda a generous estimate of around one million spacefaring civilizations existing simultaneously in the time ME:A is set. This means that for every one million stars, there is one planet from which an advanced spacefaring species has sprung. Even if you multiply that by 1000, you have one advanced species per 1000 stars.
 
Statistically, the Pathfinder should consider himself very lucky to encounter even one native spacefaring species in the Helios cluster, unless it is either:
 
1) Heavily colonized by other native Andromedan species, which makes the cluster a poor colonization prospect.
2) Is well-traveled by a lot of other native Andromedan species, which also makes the cluster a poor colonization prospect.
 
The premise is flawed because setting the game in a single cluster restricts the diversity of the Andromedan alien cast, and any means to increase the diversity of alien life in the Helios cluster will be contrived and effectively ruins the colonization aspect of the story.
 
Premise: Mass Effect: Andromeda is about exploring an unknown galaxy.
 
Question: The Milky Way is actually 99% unknown by the Citadel species count, but let's ignore that for the sake of the argument. Andromeda is a similar but slightly larger galaxy than our own. Logically, it should support carbon-based life (or the Ark Ship wouldn't have gone there to begin with), perhaps even human life. It's a rather intriguing exploration and colonization target, one that is popular in fiction.
 
There's just this one hitch, though, where Mass Effect is concerned - Andromeda hasn't been systematically purged of spacefaring life every 50,000 years.
 
The reason the Milky Way has been so "empty" (and why that 99% remains unexplored) is because of the Reapers. After all, BioWare came up with the Reapers as a sort of "solution" to the Fermi paradox. Well, that solution hasn't been working in Andromeda, which means advanced spacefaring life in Andromeda has had 1 billion years to surpass the Milky Way in every way imaginable.
 
Logically, the Ark Ship should arrive in Andromeda to be greeted by a hyper-advanced Kardashev III type civilization - or, if the Catalyst was correct (God forbid) - the ruins of an organic civilization with the Kardashev III civilization of their synthetic, rebellious and extremely hostile creations built on top of it.
 
Ignoring for a moment the poor prospects of doing battle or trying to reason or bargain with species whose potential technological advancement might rival even the Reapers, the biggest problem with exploring a galaxy without Reapers is that the factor that made the Milky Way empty and so perfect for exploration - the Reapers - isn't a factor in Andromeda. Basically, Andromeda should be explored and exploited from one side to the other, leaving nothing for our intrepid Pathfinder to discover and making the Andromeda a considerably more crowded place than the Milky Way his people left behind.
 
Imagine Columbus setting out to discover America but finding what is essentially a 21st century civilization with a population of several hundred million entrenched all over the continent. That's what the Andromeda is without the Reapers.
 
Or something like the Reapers.
 
Which brings me to my next point - the only way to make Andromeda suitably "empty" for exploration is to introduce a Reaper-like element, some kind of solution to the Fermi paradox. Maybe that's what the Remnants are supposed to be? Either way, it would just make Mass Effect: Andromeda feel like a rehash of the original trilogy:
 
"We left the galaxy we came from to evade a galactic threat, but here's a different galactic threat we need to deal with before we can settle down here."
 
... which is the opposite of what BioWare has said they want to do.
 
Conclusion: Looking at the difficulties to reconcile the premise of Mass Effect: Andromeda with the established lore and the scientific principles upon which that lore is built, the choice to move the franchise to our great intergalactic neighbour reads less like "This could make for a good story" and more like "We messed up the Milky Way so now we don't have any choice but to move to Andromeda." Especially when you consider the relative ease with which they could bypass the ending snafu without canonizing any of them.
 
The decision is basically an implicit admission of wrongdoing on their part in the original trilogy. What's truly mindboggling is that the reason for the choice - to avoid invalidating the player's choice through retroactive tampering with the endings - doesn't make much sense for a number of reasons. Very few people actively LIKED the endings - the rest is pretty much split between people who didn't care either way, and people who hated it with the fury of a thousand suns. So when the majority of players are either indifferent or angry about your endings, it makes absolutely no sense to cater to the minority who liked them.
 
What's worse, BioWare has a track record of ignoring player choice in the previous games, particularly ending choices. Remember that ending choice in ME1 where a Renegade Shepard is offered the opportunity to start an all-human council? Yeah, that choice was completely ignored.
 
Or in ME2, when the Collector Base choice was touted as making a massive difference in ME3? The difference? 10 war assets. 10.
 
Not just ending choices. The Rachni? "The presence of the Rachni has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers."
 
Turned out that the "huge consequence" was 100 war assets, and they don't actually show up in the ending.
 
In fact, a majority of the choices made were invalidated in ME3, having no payoff besides an arbitrary number value to get you over the breakpoints for the different endings. So let's not pretend that BioWare considers player agency sacrosanct. I'm more inclined to believe that the endings of ME3 received preferential treatment and retcon immunity because of the people who wrote it, rather than the people they were sold to.
 
After all, said writers made it very clear in post-release interviews that they had COMPLETELY missed the point about why people were so mad over the endings. The way they talked about it, they didn't acknowledge that people legitimately thought their endings were bad, it was more akin to "The endings are good but the fans misunderstood them". which is a really patronising attitude to have against fans with legitimate concerns.
 
Is it as simple that BioWare no longer has any quality control? No peer-review of ideas? After all, they let the Deception novel ship with all its inaccuracies and plot holes, and the aforementioned writers (and some others) even praised it openly on Twitter.

 

Maybe Andromeda is just another bad idea that wasn't properly killed before having the opportunity to develop into something worse.


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#2
Vapaa

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Yeah of course it's a dumb permise, but that's what it is.

I just hope it's a good game, even if it's dumb, after all, the Shepard trilogy was dumb since the beginning, so that's okay.
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#3
straykat

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Yeah of course it's a dumb permise, but that's what it is.

I just hope it's a good game, even if it's dumb, after all, the Shepard trilogy was dumb since the beginning, so that's okay.

 

True. ME2 is my favorite game of the series, but probably the dumbest.. right out of the gates.

 

But I think the stars were aligned or something. How could they pull that off twice.


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#4
LinksOcarina

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They can't do both at the same time; explore the Milky Way and Andromeda?

 

Or is that too out there? 



#5
Anvos

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Honestly I get the strong feeling that over the course of ME:A's story were going to find out Andromeda has its own Citadel and we were wrong/misinformed/mislead that the Reapers merely slept out the eons as life redeveloped.  When the only people vaguely hinted at are extinct under mysterious circumstances with various ruins left behind that sounds very similar to the Protheans.

 

Why Andromeda?  Likely because outside our own that is the one with the most name recognition, also sounds a lot better than other one.

 

Plus if it is launched before the ending of ME3 the logic sort of makes sense of if you've taken every precaution in purging the existence of the Ark Fleet and its destination from existence you wouldn't want to send it to the closest Galaxy as that would be where the Reapers if they won would look first if they suspected such a thing happened and your best defense would be hoping you make your journey long enough that by the time the Reapers are done with the Milky Way your far enough out in Dark Space that your lost to their ability to detect you and if they have the ability to check other Galaxies (maybe through safe assumption of possible relay system between galaxies) that they would arrive and find nothing there and leave before you arrive.

 

Edit:  As for the resources for the Ark fleet, beyond the premise of not everybody would put all their eggs in the crucible basket its possible that an Ark fleet was already being constructed, since with the Council's ban on exploring relays that hadn't been activated from the other end due to the Rachni Wars it would make it so the best way to explore the Milkyway and prove a relay was safe to open would be to build a more less self sustaining colony/exploration fleet.



#6
ModernAcademic

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WOW

 

Amazingly comprehensive!

 

 

 

Will read everything more carefully at home tonight.


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#7
Heimdall

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The best justification I can think of is that the Ark was launched during or shortly before the Reaper War as an insurance policy for the preservation of civilization (It's the only justification that really justifies such a drastic move in my view and the Ark may well have been in development as early as the aftermath of the first game or even before, and it has been suggested that they could have adapted the superstructure of a Collector Cruiser to expedite construction), likely incorporating reverse engineered reaper/prothean technology (Thessia beacon, Sovereign's remains) as a means of overcoming the technological hurdles.

 

As to why Andromeda, maybe they suspected that the Reapers also had another vanguard in the nearby Magellanic cloud, or they just wanted to go as far as they could.



#8
straykat

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The best justification I can think of is that the Ark was launched during or shortly before the Reaper War as an insurance policy for the preservation of civilization (It's the only justification that really justifies such a drastic move in my view and the Ark may well have been in development as early as the aftermath of the first game or even before, and it has been suggested that they could have adapted the superstructure of a Collector Cruiser to expedite construction), likely incorporating reverse engineered reaper/prothean technology (Thessia beacon, Sovereign's remains) as a means of overcoming the technological hurdles.

 

As to why Andromeda, maybe they suspected that the Reapers also had another vanguard in the nearby Magellanic cloud, or they just wanted to go as far as they could.

 

The other thing is that Andromeda is a mature galaxy like the Milky Way. Not sure the same can be said about the smaller ones that surround us.



#9
Hanako Ikezawa

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Honestly I get the strong feeling that over the course of ME:A's story were going to find out Andromeda has its own Citadel we were wrong/misinformed/mislead that the Reapers merely slept out the eons as life redeveloped.  When the only people vaguely hinted at are extinct under mysterious circumstances with various ruins left behind that sounds very similar to the Protheans.

Possibly. It's not like they ever established the hibernation as fact to begin with. The only person that proposes the Reapers sleep in between their harvests is Vigil, who admits that he can only hypothesize about the Reapers. Instead of sleeping, maybe they just have a cycle of cycles of the galaxies in the Local Galactic Group.  



#10
Killroy

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What we know: From the N7 Day teaser, we know for a fact they travel to Andromeda the long way in a ship. I.e, no wormholes or Mass Relay-esque devices. We know that most of the species we've gotten used to came along for the ride, for whatever (similar?) reasons. Given that the trip takes several centuries even at typical Mass Effect FTL speeds, it's logical to presume the ship needs to have viable populations for each of the travelling species to ensure biological diversity. In other words, the ship needs to be fairly big to accomodate for these populations.


The premise of this thread is flawed since none of those things are confirmed.
The N7 Day teaser was not a trailer or scene from the game, it was fan service. The ship we see at the end of that teaser isn't even traveling at FTL. If we used your faulty assumptions we could surmise that the trip to Andromeda would take millions of years.
We only know that humans and Krogans(and Asari is you count the leak as 100% accurate) are along for the ride. Anything more than that is speculation.
It would actually be highly illogical to have large populations of the included species on board since feeding, sheltering and policing these vast populations adds costs, complications and headaches that would be impossible to justify. The logical solution would be having stores of DNA/reproductive material on hand to make new populations when the Ark finds suitable worlds.
It would also make much less sense to have a massive ship since the undertaking would be much greater. The only reason to have a massive ship with a huge amount of people on board is to tell more interesting stories and have a larger cast of characters to pull from. And that gets to heart of why this thread is actually flawed. You're trying to use bastardized logic to justify your emotional dislike of the game's premise. It has nothing to do with actual logic and everything to do with your very obvious bias. You've been railing against the game nonstop since before this forum was even added. If you were actually this concerned with logic and narrative cohesion you would have dropped video game altogether by now. And pretty much fiction in all forms for that matter.
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#11
Neoleviathan

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I've been thinking about how good a chance we could see some advanced alien species. Also worried how much the crew could really expect to match them at all.

If the Ark ship does encounter some seriously evolved aliens I think one thing the Pathfinder might have going for them is Reaper tech. Sure the Reapers were a lot more advanced then the Citadel races, but at the core of all their tech was Reaper tech. Everything was derived from the Reapers at some level. So the Ark crew might be surprisingly on level with some strong Andromeda races. Reaper tech could be very alien to the races we meet, they might not be able to defend themselves as well. But that could go both ways. Another possibility is element zero & biotics. That was connected to the Reaper tech also, so it would be interesting if biotics were a completely new to Andromeda. That could give Ark crew quite an edge, make them valuable & feared.

Another thing that could save the Ark crew from immediate destruction is if the aliens are more concerned with each other than to bother with some strangers. That we are unknown aliens, who no one should have a grudge against, might make us very valuable. We could freely trade & mediate, without bothering anyone too much. Like Lawrence of Arabia, getting by because you are against no one & no one is offended.

It will be interesting to see just how advanced some of the new races are, & how the Ark crew is able to survive first contact.
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#12
Ahriman

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Which brings me to my next point - the only way to make Andromeda suitably "empty" for exploration is to introduce a Reaper-like element, some kind of solution to the Fermi paradox. Maybe that's what the Remnants are supposed to be? Either way, it would just make Mass Effect: Andromeda feel like a rehash of the original trilogy:

I'll skip the rest if you don't mind. But this part kinda triggered me. "The only way"? Because you said so? Because you define patterns of civilizational evolution on galactic scale? How many millions of years you've observed space faring species?


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#13
Probe Away

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Re the first point - what killroy said. You've made assumptions about the who, why and how of the journey to Andromeda that haven't been confirmed. At all.

Your next point - that the odds of bumping into sentient life in one cluster - was a good one, until you partly answered it with your third point. If there aren't any reapers in andromeda, therefore making it full of advanced life, wouldn't that significantly increase the odds of contact in the cluster?

There are definitely holes in this whole premise that need filling, but I think we should at least give BW a chance to do that before writing it off as fundamentally flawed.
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#14
Wulfram

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The method of getting to Andromeda might only work in Andromeda. Or we might have sent arks to a bunch of nearby galaxies.

Intelligent life in the Mass Effect universe seems to be pretty common. Otherwise the Reapers wouldn't have to come back every 50,000 years or so. And the intelligent life in the Helios Cluster may not be indigenous to the Helios Cleuster.

Imagine Columbus setting out to discover America but finding what is essentially a 21st century civilization with a population of several hundred million entrenched all over the continent. That's what the Andromeda is without the Reapers


To be honest, I'd love it if that was what we got. It'd be a good reversal of the usual expectations
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#15
KaiserShep

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If it makes you feel any better, the plot that's assumed here is no dumber than the reaper cycles idea. 


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#16
BioWareM0d13

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The Magellanic Clouds have a much lower metallicity than the Milky Way and lower dust to gas ratios. The lack of both heavy elements and dust compared to our own galaxy would mean that there would also be less formaton of rocky Earth-like planets in their star systems. The metallicity of Andromeda is more similar to our parent galaxy.

 

I doubt the devs gave it much thought beyond "Andromeda sounds cool," but I think metallicity works as a suitable sciency head canon explanation for why the Council species chose to take a longer intergalactic trip in search of new homes.


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#17
Catastrophy

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I didn't read it - I'm in for the gameplay mostly and in fiction anything goes with a bit of creative writing.



#18
Chealec

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It can be logically reconciled within the ME story though - with a bit of hand-waving;

 

theory:

 

We're going to Andromeda to avoid the end of the Reaper War - the Ark is based around Collector technology (huge and full of stasis pods) gained around the events of ME2. This reduces the overhead at least. Granted this doesn't explain Andromeda rather than the Magellenic Clouds - perhaps they figured a large galaxy is likely to have more habitable worlds.

 

If there are no Reapers in Andromeda that doesn't necessarily mean that the species currently there are hugely more advanced than those in the MW; it took more than 3 billion years for life to evolve on Earth to the point where humanity joined the galactic council. Life may have evolved in the Andromeda galaxy to that point in a billion or 5 billion - nobody knows. We could be millions of years more advanced or millions of years behind - there's nothing that couldn't be resolved within the plot.

 

The game may only be set within a single star cluster for about the same reason that a game about the early British colonisation of North America would only cover the North-Eastern tip of the continent; i.e. that's all the scope that's required within the given story. We know nothing about the eventual aims of the Ark Fleet.

 

 

Basically your objections about the setting can be countered by how BioWare decide to tell the story.


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#19
The Twilight God

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That's a lot of logic being applied to overanalyzing a possible plot from a developer that had Shepard down Control up the last minute and 3 minutes of the game. To have just finished his last Control bashing bout with The Illusive Man and then go and get convinced Control is viable and kill himself in order to make this happen all on the word of the Reapers who are currently trying to wipe out all advanced life in the galaxy. And this is, to this day, never been stated as being an indoctrinated ending along with Synthesis that is even more absurd than Control as Synthesis is a literal physical impossibility.

 

The writers don't care.

They have no pride in their profession.

It's just a paycheck to them.

It doesn't have to make sense.

The masses will shell out their cash no matter what.

 

Bioware can do no wrong. And if they do wrong it's some nameless faceless EA executive's fault. Not the people who actually wrote the script and crafted the plot. Bioware will say they "learned" from the experience and go on to disappoint again. Rinse and repeat. Bioware can do no wrong in the eyes of the Biomaniacs™.


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#20
Dantriges

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If the "Ark Ship" is fleeing the Reapers, it must have done so during the events of Mass Effect 3. But in Mass Effect 3, the galactic economy was devoted towards building the Crucible, which was considered almost a pyrrhic endeavour from an economic perspective, in a "Building this thing will destroy the economy but if we don't we'll all die." kind of way.
 
So how was the galactic civilization able to fund the construction of the Ark Ship when virtually the entire economy was being funneled into the Crucible Project? Judging from the N7 Day teaser, it's quite massive, possibly on par with the Crucible itself in size, and unlike the Crucible, the Ark Ship's design would have to include technology that wasn't actually invented at that point, for example tech to travel long distances without discharging.

 

Nice read. I answer this one.

As it turns out, it wasn´t the construction of the Crucible that strained the economy so much but building two projects at the same time or rather the start of a new project "Crucible" during the Ark project. I would even propose that this was the reason that the other council races were reluctant at first because they actually saw no hope to win, but seems that humanity spearheaded this project too, of course. :rolleyes:


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#21
Applepie_Svk

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It would be funny if we the game started with that, the Crucible with Citadel are some kind of massive dark energy generator that is created to increase the speed of decay of stars, like that Haestrom star thing. However I don´t believe that Crucible was designed by any cycle, it´s most likely that it was add to cycles by Leviathans following their goals. I still don´t think that conflict betwen the organics and synthetics is inevitable or rather said an eternal, ME3 tried to push into it, but Leviathans seems most likely to be too much arrogant to admit that they missed their puppets. It´s quite possible that first organic-synthetic conflict happened not because synthetics are inevitably evil, but just because Leviathans couldn´t control the synthetics and these synthetics could see through the fact that organics were nothing more than puppets.

 

So far ME:A brought more questions than answers, I don´t think that we ever find of what happened with Milky Way, because BioWare just don´t want to adress it, the confusion and admiting that they screwed terribly in both possibile explanations. If IT is true, which is unlikely, than we have no end at all, only the words of Stargazer and if the literal version is true which most likely is, than there is still lot of plotholes.

 

Still, Asari in council said after the Thessia that there are plans to preserve society, so I doubt that Crucible was the only option that was worked on. Thing is that we have upper hand in comparison to the previous cycles, because the relay network is still working and we have species fighting back with atleast some form of co-peration. Even Protheans proved that they were working on many projects during their war such as the Ilos, Crucible, beacons, Eden Prime etc. 

 

It´s just most likely that Arc has been sent out after the ME2 to avoid the STUFF :D...



#22
Ahglock

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That was incredibly long but I didn't see anything that made it a fundamentally flawed premise.

Why andromeda. Sure they could have picked other galaxies but that doesn't mean they couldn't pick andromeda.

Why a ark vs other options like cryo. Maybe they had enough evidence that never worked so they went with this, but again having a option you think makes more sense doesn't make someone making a different choice fundamentally flawed.

Funding. I doubt all the galaxies or even most the galaxies resources went to the crucible. The secret nature of it actually reduces how many resources can be devoted to it by a huge margin so a second huge secret project is easily in the budget.

Cluster and alien life. Low odds does not make something fundamentally flawed. Rare things do occur and they can design in some reasons to make it more likely. Uplifted species, genetic tampering etc.


Tech level. With how low the odds are that life even occurs and then has the opportunity to evolve at all you can give them any tech level and it works. Maybe any viable life at all took billions of more years in this galaxy. There are other options than reaper like for a tech drop. They can go a environmental route or other self destruction, global warming is a in story now. with the Khet being a multi species civ like Protheans it's fall may mean the only existing civilizations are the lower tech ones that had been ignored by the Khets and they are now around are level.

They could have ignored the endings and stayed in the MIlky Way. Sure but that doesn't mean they should have.

I'm not sure id call anything on your list even a flaw much less a fundamental one. Unless flaw is just short have for I don't like this.
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#23
pkypereira

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I agree with all who have said that all we know right now is speculation and unconfirmed leaks. We can't assume that we are the only Ark that was sent and that it was sent to Andromeda. For all we know there was also an Ark sent to the Magellanic Cloud and possibly other arks sent to other galaxies. We really don't know how big the Ark Project is and if it was already underway when the Asari Councilor mentions it to Shepard.

 

Also, we don't know if we do meet advanced civilizations or not. Maybe we do meet advanced aliens and they tell us to go to the Helios Cluster because it is largely unexplored and can possibly sustain life. We also don't know if they even help us set up the colonies. BioWare could introduce new alien squadmates and crewmates into the game this way.

 

The only confirmed info we know is that the story we are in is the Andromeda, there will be no characters from the original trilogy, the Mako will be used and the game takes place long in the future. It's premature to find the flaws in the game if we still know virtually nothing about it. 



#24
Steelcan

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I have no confidence in their ability to write a story that is consistent with prior lore. Expect retcons and hand waves galore


Also cerberus
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#25
Arcian

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The Magellanic Clouds have a much lower metallicity than the Milky Way and lower dust to gas ratios. The lack of both heavy elements and dust compared to our own galaxy would mean that there would also be less formaton of rocky Earth-like planets in their star systems. The metallicity of Andromeda is more similar to our parent galaxy.
 
I doubt the devs gave it much thought beyond "Andromeda sounds cool," but I think metallicity works as a suitable sciency head canon explanation for why the Council species chose to take a longer intergalactic trip in search of new homes.

I like this argument, but you still have to ask, is the metallicity low enough that it warrants a journey that's almost 16 times longer? A trip to the Magellanic Clouds would be more feasible than a trip to Andromeda given the limited resources the galaxy had available during the Reaper War, but it still isn't feasible and requires a lot of handwaving to justify.
 

It can be logically reconciled within the ME story though - with a bit of hand-waving;

Handwaving is a really lazy and crude writing tool and should only be used as a last resort, not in the frivolous manner BioWare has been using it lately.
 

theory:
 
We're going to Andromeda to avoid the end of the Reaper War - the Ark is based around Collector technology (huge and full of stasis pods) gained around the events of ME2. This reduces the overhead at least.

Gained where? The Normandy destroyed the only Collector ship known to exist at the time, and there's nothing to suggest any other Collector vessels have been successfully captured by galactic forces. Moreover, it's not guaranteed the Collector pods suspends aging. They certainly wouldn't need to, since the Collectors have no interest in keeping their victims alive for a prolonged amount of time.
 

Granted this doesn't explain Andromeda rather than the Magellenic Clouds - perhaps they figured a large galaxy is likely to have more habitable worlds.

Han Shot First offered a good explanation for this, though it's debatable whether it's enough to justify the longer, more difficult trip.
 

If there are no Reapers in Andromeda that doesn't necessarily mean that the species currently there are hugely more advanced than those in the MW; it took more than 3 billion years for life to evolve on Earth to the point where humanity joined the galactic council. Life may have evolved in the Andromeda galaxy to that point in a billion or 5 billion - nobody knows. We could be millions of years more advanced or millions of years behind - there's nothing that couldn't be resolved within the plot.

Andromeda has over a trillion stars, the odds of none of them producing a spacefaring species utilising Mass Effect FTL in the 1 billion year timespan between the Reapers first harvest and the events of Mass Effect 1-3 is virtually zero.

Even without Mass Relays, it would not take very long for a spacefaring species to establish themselves galaxy-wide. Hell, we've even made calculations how long it would take for us humans to populate the entire Milky Way at sublight speeds, and the estimate was around a million years. With FTL, it would just be a tiny fraction of that.
 

The game may only be set within a single star cluster for about the same reason that a game about the early British colonisation of North America would only cover the North-Eastern tip of the continent; i.e. that's all the scope that's required within the given story. We know nothing about the eventual aims of the Ark Fleet.

I get at WHY they want to set it in a single star cluster, I'm just saying the idea doesn't make sense because on an astronomical scale star clusters aren't actually that large. The larger ones with thousands of stars - globular clusters - are unsuitable for life because the stars are so close together that they have a tendency to pull planets out of each other's orbits. The smaller ones with just a few hundred stars - open clusters - aren't large enough to host the number of habitable planets we can expect to find in the game, and they're still not as suitable for life as non-clustered stars. Not only that, open clusters are 30 light years in diameter at their biggest, which is 2.5 days of FTL travel. Wouldn't be a very big game world, certainly not 4 times larger than Mass Effect 3's galaxy map, as recent news has touted.
 

Basically your objections about the setting can be countered by how BioWare decide to tell the story.

Yeah but a story has to be internally consistent, you can't just set up strict story limitations (like the limits of FTL without Mass Relays) and then ignore all those limitations because the direction you're taking the story in wouldn't work otherwise. What's the point of even having a story if BioWare's going to ignore or rewrite its lore whenever it's convenient for them? Might as well ditch singleplayer and make it a strictly multiplayer game if that's the case.


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