183 réponses à ce sujet

[N7M]

The Ark(s) could be conjured as preserved artifact(s) of a different Prothean contingency plan or from another precursor civilization. Pathfinder could imply the mission is to find and follow the precursors. There is no reason to have the civilizations of the current cycle build the Ark(s). The ship in the N7 Day video look a little similar to the Collector ships. It's possible that Collector ships are based off a precursor design, either directly or through Reaper influence upon Prothean technology. 

[Drone223]

Umm, you do know that the satellite galaxies are substantially closer than Andromeda, right?

Not really the distance of each satellite galaxy varies. The Canis major dwarf galaxy is 25,000 light years from the solar system while Barnad's galaxy is 1.6 million light years from the solar system.

[Ahriman]

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and nothing will be mentioned about how we got there.... no pont really.

Huh? I don't get people's logic on this one. How many games and films you can list which say that humans originate from Earth, but it's never explained why they are on some Krik-Krek 16?

[spinachdiaper]

Any plot other than 1,000 years after ME3 Destroy ending is bunk to me. No secret project ark survival ship during ME3 that jumps over the whole lore. Heck at the start of ME3 every galactic civilization had it's head in the sand about the reapers but low and behold a weakly excuse of a recton to save the day.

[Laughing_Man]

The whole idea of ME:A is a desperate attempt by EA to save a money making IP after Bioware torched the franchise with the ME3 ending.

 

There is nothing more to it. Don't expect it to make sense beyond some vague handwavings - you will be disappointed if you do.

(this way at best you will be surprised for the better, even if it is rather unlikely)

[Applepie_Svk]

Huh? I don't get people's logic on this one. How many games and films you can list which say that humans originate from Earth, but it's never explained why they are on some Krik-Krek 16?

 

The thing is that people wants an explanation why are we going there if we won a war, so in fact it´s all about end of ME3

[Amirit]

I'm basically making this thread to make some arguments why Mass Effect: Andromeda is a bad idea, mainly from plot perspectives.
 
.....

 

Maybe Andromeda is just another bad idea that wasn't properly killed before having the opportunity to develop into something worse.

 

You are right in every point, yet, can not agree with your conclusion. Vapaa said it all - "I just hope it's a good game, even if it's dumb, after all, the Shepard trilogy was dumb since the beginning, so that's okay." Trilogy was never about science or any kind of logic, "rule of cool" was absolute. And it worked! Like it did for any space-opera before ME. Let's just hope they did not lost that touch and still remember how to make things "cool". 

[Chealec]

Hand-waving is not logic.  Hand-waving is what one is reduced to when logic fails.

 

True - but there's no more hand-waving required to make the trip to Andromeda than there is in anything else in Mass Effect thus far; it's not like we're talking about hard science here any more than we would be with Star Wars.

[Chealec]

No hard evidence? The game is set in a galaxy that the Milky Way species don't have the technology OR the money to reach.

 

Yes they do - because they will.

 

All the hard evidence that it happens is that the game is called Mass Effect Andromeda and it takes place, with humans and Krogans, in Andromeda. Arguing otherwise is like arguing that bumblebees can't fly because their wingspan to body mass ratio is too small.

[Han Shot First]

Much of the tech to get to Andromeda already exists in the lore. FTL travel is a thing, cryosleep tech exists, and space stations like the Citadel are said to have tech that allows them to static discharge while in deep space. The only element missing for the Council species is tech that allows them to make the journey without needing to refuel along the way. The Reapers have it, but as of ME3, the civilizations of the Milky Way don't.

 

I don't think that is an insurmountable obstable for the writers however. There a few routes they could go to get the colonists to Andromeda without it being any more implausible than eezo, biotics, FTL travel, or workable 50,000 year Prothean tech on the Martian surface. We aren't going to get hard science, but it is at least possible to give the colonists a means of getting to Andromeda that fits within the rules of the ME universe.

 

Although I'm looking forward to Andromeda setting more than Arcian is, I do have to say that I like this thread. He raises some valid points, and it beats the umpteen romance threads going. We need more Sci Fi discussions around this place.

[Zazzerka]

The only element missing for the Council species is tech that allows them to make the journey without needing to refuel along the way. The Reapers have it, but as of ME3, the civilizations of the Milky Way don't.

 

If they even need to refuel en route. I'm thinking something like a Hail Mary pass on a galactic scale. Space eliminates the need for constant acceleration (as far as I'm aware), so they should be able to launch a ship (using boosters, like our shuttle) out of the Milky Way at a high enough velocity that it escapes our galaxy's gravity well and hits intergalactic space at a speed fast enough to deliver the ship to Andromeda within a few centuries.

 

All that would be needed then would be for an AI to remember to fire some already onboard retrorockets at about the halfway point so that the ship and its crew of ice blocks can end up entering this speculated cluster at a reasonable speed.

[Ahriman]

The thing is that people wants an explanation why are we going there if we won a war, so in fact it´s all about end of ME3

Ah, that thing. Columbus didn't set on his expedition on ship called Ark, did he? First American colonists didn't travel on ship called Ark either, despite being quite religious. We already saw the name and how it looks, so I'm pretty sure we'll hear about it's purpose in next half a year.

[EliotNesss]

If Movie makers can weave a stunning tale of interdimensional time and distance travel to far away galaxies that spans seconds to hundreds of years in an instant out of accepted scientific theory (like the movie "Interstellar"). So too can a game maker like Bioware for Mass Effect Andromeda. It's called science fiction folks. It's make believe. We are supposed to suspend belief and judgment and just enjoy the darn story. The more real scientific theory they can weave into the plot the better. But some of us really need to get a grip on our access to fantasy. And stop judging and holding these things up like they are reality. We accept Superman from Krypton, the phantom zone, Green Lantern, Star Wars, Star Trek and etc for what they are and just enjoy them. Why not Mass Effect Andromeda. I don't want any semblance of reality in Mass Effect Andromeda. I hope the writers and developers fill it with the most wild azzed, insane, mind bending scenarios and theories they can imagine. I don't care if people and creatures can traverse the expanse between galaxies at the unmeasurable speed of a thought. Appear in MW in a flash, then zoom-pow back to Andromeda in an instant. Just let Bioware bring it on without a ton of the strait jackets I've read in some of these opinions. And I am good to go.

 

JMHO. I personally don't know if the premise of ME-A is fundamentally flawed. Especially since we know little to nothing about its premise except where the drama unfolds. So I'm open minded to any and all possibilities. Including the one that they may be fleeing the newly minted "Reaper God" of the Milky Way named Shepard itself!

[Heimdall]

Not really the distance of each satellite galaxy varies. The Canis major dwarf galaxy is 25,000 light years from the solar system while Barnad's galaxy is 1.6 million light years from the solar system.

And the Andromeda Galaxy is 2.5 million light years from the solar system (About a million light years further), while the Magellanic Cloud is only 163 thousand light years away.

[Heimdall]

If they even need to refuel en route. I'm thinking something like a Hail Mary pass on a galactic scale. Space eliminates the need for constant acceleration (as far as I'm aware), so they should be able to launch a ship (using boosters, like our shuttle) out of the Milky Way at a high enough velocity that it escapes our galaxy's gravity well and hits intergalactic space at a speed fast enough to deliver the ship to Andromeda within a few centuries.
 
All that would be needed then would be for an AI to remember to fire some already onboard retrorockets at about the halfway point so that the ship and its crew of ice blocks can end up entering this speculated cluster at a reasonable speed.

The only issue is that Mass Effect FTL (And they would have to be moving at FTL to get there in only a few centuries) requires running an electric charge through element zero to maintain the Mass Effect field, plus the electric discharge issue. Reapers appear to have solved this problem, so we know it can be solved though.

[Iakus]

True - but there's no more hand-waving required to make the trip to Andromeda than there is in anything else in Mass Effect thus far; it's not like we're talking about hard science here any more than we would be with Star Wars.

And those are the weakest points of the series.  

 

I'm not asking for hard science fiction.  I'm asking for the lore to at least be consistent with itself.

 

I mean, seriously is "Magic A Is Magic A" too much to ask for?

[Iakus]

It's called science fiction folks. It's make believe. We are supposed to suspend belief and judgment and just enjoy the darn story.

Yes.  It's science fiction.  Not fantasy.  

 

And yes we' need to suspend disbelief.  But it's one thing to suspend disbelief.  IT's quite another to hang it by the neck until it's dead.

[Belial]

I think people are forgetting Mass Effect has never been particularly hard sci-fi. It has never gone into much detail on the scientific stuff beyond semi-plausible explanations or sometimes no explanations whatsoever. Even ME1 which is considered by many to be the most realistic game of the trilogy contains a lot of unrealistic or unexplained things (for example the lore about how humans developed FTL is as much a handwave as is the trasition to Andromeda). I get that some people might not like softer sci-fi but it makes me wonder how you managed to play through the trilogy in the first place.

[Iakus]

I think people are forgetting Mass Effect has never been particularly hard sci-fi. It has never gone into much detail on the scientific stuff beyond semi-plausible explanations or sometimes no explanations whatsoever. Even ME1 which is considered by many to be the most realistic game of the trilogy contains a lot of unrealistic or unexplained things (for example the lore about how humans developed FTL is as much a handwave as is the trasition to Andromeda). I get that some people might not like softer sci-fi but it makes me wonder how you managed to play through the trilogy in the first place.

It's not a matter of "hard" vs "soft" scifi.  It's a matter of consistency.  

 

Okay, these magic rocks make ftl possible.  But they have limits.  They can do x but not y.  They can do z but it takes special preparations, etc.  Consistency.  You know what to expect from the magic.  And if you have to do something it's not meant to do, you have to find a way around that limitation.

 

But if stuff that's supposedly outright impossible gets handwaved away because the setting got written into a corner by a truly poorly thought-out and implemented ending to the last game, how are we supposed to take the story seriously at all?  Why should our characters accept anything is impossible when , "Oops!  Forget what we just told you.  This is what's real now!"  What's interesting about a setting where reality shifts whenever the writer needs a solution to an unexpected problem?  Why should we care about a problem when the answer is "resources" rather than doing something interesting with the lore we already have?

 

Let me tell you, playing through the second game got hard with the Lazarus Project nonsense.  And ME3 nearly impossible with the Catalyst (who am I kidding, no "nearly" about it!).  And now I can't even go back to ME1 thanks to the latter two plus other loose ends that were left dangling.  And now will never be answered

[Lady Artifice]

This thread is mostly built on assumption. We don't have any of the information we need to make this kind of judgement.

[Dantriges]

Ah the, "they have x so why not everything else" argument. Had that argument in fantasy forums. You have one or two things that are not realistic and it´s like opening the floodgates. Like they have elves, why not have volcanoes spontaneously erupting from the ground and covering everything in magma. Don´t care if the setting´s magic is defined as low key telepathy only, I wanna volcano and flying ships and space travel.

 

 

We accept Superman from Krypton, the phantom zone, Green Lantern, Star Wars, Star Trek and etc for what they are and just enjoy them.

 

Yeah in their respective franchises and If I think, Superman is silly or superheroes in general, I can avoid them (actually I don´t).  I don´t want them in my Star Wars even when it´s fantasy in space.

If everything goes, how about Shepard FTLing through space yelling up up and away or using a reindeer sled yeliling HO HO HO.

[Sartoz]

And those are the weakest points of the series.  

 

I'm not asking for hard science fiction.  I'm asking for the lore to at least be consistent with itself.

 

I mean, seriously is "Magic A Is Magic A" too much to ask for?

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"...I'm asking for the lore to at least be consistent with itself...."

IMO,  any adherence to Lore just trips up the Andromeda story. Forget Lore and just enjoy the story of the Pathfinder because you can't fix a broken Lore.. Dragone Age is a perfect example of this impossible task.

 

Bio writers, directors and managers failed to think that far ahead.  Shep's universe was to be a trilogy. Once done... it's over, finished.... the end.

 

Unortunately, the series was a massive success (pun intended).  The IP is big enough to have room for many other stories. These, though, must be in the ME Universe, which can be written (in my view) without mentioning ME1-3. The key is to develop a video game that the fans can instantly see it is a Mass Effect game (the stupid N7 and Mako just gives fans that unwanted and incomplete linkage to Shep+MW).

 

Bio can start the game in the same time period as that last ME3 sequence where the boy said "..tell me more about the Shepard". Here, Shep and the MW are legends... fairy like stories to tell children.  I have no problems if the Pathfinder starts at this point in time and that the MW galaxy is relegated to the dustbin of history.

 

I'm looking forward to Andromeda and a new story and engaging characters, good banter, combat and game play replayability, especially if the devs throw in some random paths (ie: missions), that can influence critical choices down the road.

[Iakus]

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"...I'm asking for the lore to at least be consistent with itself...."

IMO,  any adherence to Lore just trips up the Andromeda story. Forget Lore and just enjoy the story of the Pathfinder because you can't fix a broken Lore.. Dragone Age is a perfect example of this impossible task.

 

Then why is this being advertised as a "Mass Effect" game if we're just supposed to forget the lore?

 

Honestly it's like the marketing for ME3:  "Who cares about what happened in a game nearly a decade ago?  THIS IS THE SUPER BOWL!"

 

 

 

Bio writers, directors and managers failed to think that far ahead.  Shep's universe was to be a trilogy. Once done... it's over, finished.... the end.

Unortunately, the series was a massive success (pun intended).  The IP is big enough to have room for many other stories. These, though, must be in the ME Universe, which can be written (in my view) without mentioning ME1-3. The key is to develop a video game that the fans can instantly see it is a Mass Effect game (the stupid N7 and Mako just gives fans that unwanted and incomplete linkage to Shep+MW).

I don't think "Cash grab" is a very good excuse, myself

 

 

 

Bio can start the game in the same time period as that last ME3 sequence where the boy said "..tell me more about the Shepard". Here, Shep and the MW are legends... fairy like stories to tell children.  I have no problems if the Pathfinder starts at this point in time and that the MW galaxy is relegated to the dustbin of history.
I'm looking forward to Andromeda and a new story and engaging characters, good banter, combat and game play replayability, especially if the devs throw in some random paths (ie: missions), that can influence critical choices down the road.

Hey, if everything that happened in the trilogy is rendered a non-canon collection of stories like the Star Wars EU (Mass Effect Legends?), then all is well as far as I'm concerned.  

 

But somehow I doubt that will be the case.

[Beerfish]

Any plot other than 1,000 years after ME3 Destroy ending is bunk to me. No secret project ark survival ship during ME3 that jumps over the whole lore. Heck at the start of ME3 every galactic civilization had it's head in the sand about the reapers but low and behold a weakly excuse of a recton to save the day.

Eh?  You are falling into the same trap as others.  That you as shepard or via game cutscense knew 100% everything that was happening in the galaxy despite running around willy nilly on missions to save us.

 

They actually set up a few possibilities like the speech by the Asari, talking about rich volus industrialists etc.  There are tons of totally reasonable possibilities for someone, somewhere to create a plan B.

 

It will all be in the concept and writing as to whether we shake our heads and think it is unrealistic or not.  (When I say we i mean the majority of the fan base, not the ones that have already made up their minds on the issue.)

[Beerfish]

Then why is this being advertised as a "Mass Effect" game if we're just supposed to forget the lore?

 

What is 'lore'?  From what I've seen in both these forums and the Dragon age ones, the only time that is brought up is when someone has a weak beef about a story concept.  Lore is always used in place of this is what we know now and we are going to assume that everything we know now will not and should not change.  Very different than 'Lore'

 

ME3 lore suggests:

- FTL travel has been used in the game world.

- Large infrastructure projects can be built in a short time with the right resources.

- Alien races will cooperate when faced with possible extinction

- The current version of the Reaper purge has been delayed and taken longer than previous ones.

- Small parts of a populations can successfully hide from the Reapers.

- Governments and races can keep things a big fat secret from others.

 

All of that 'lore' leads to the Ark project being 100% logical.