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On red lyrium, taint and it's origins


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#1
werepuffin

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Figures my first post on these forums would be a crazy rant. A LONG, crazy rant. These thoughts have been taking way too much space in my head as I should be concentrating on my own story, not this! Regardless of what I should be doing I'd actually like to share some insight and opinions with you guys. I couldn't find another topic to post this in, though, so I hope it's okay I made a new one. Probably half of this stuff can be discredited by canon/some other source but who cares, here we go;
 
 
WHAT WE KNOW OF THE TAINT
 
  • Red lyrium is lyrium infected with the Taint.
  • Lyrium is Titan's blood. 
  • Instead of the red lyrium crystals we see in DA:I, in Primeval Thaig it's the lyrium veins themselves that are red. Shaped like veins because they're still attached to a Titan or its corpse? A Titan infected by the Taint? 
  • Dissecting a red templar shows red lyrium is parasitic and eats you from the inside out. Regular lyrium goes into your 'veins' but doesn't seem to consume you, as it's possible to cease using lyrium and make a full recovery.
    > if lyrium isn't parasitic, the Taint is?
  • Taint transmits through blood and bodily fluids or objects imbued with Taint (imbued, not infected, suggesting someone imbued Merril's eluvian on purpose)
 
ANCIENT ELVES AND THE TAINT because of course they're connected. everything is connected
 
  • Corypheus claims he and the other magisters contracted Taint in the Black City, "discovered the darkness and claimed it as their own, let it permeate their being". Assumin the Black City was (possibly the Fade-counterpart of) Arlathan, (pre-veil?) Arlathan was infected by the Taint. Infected as a result from some battle, perhaps, or imbued purposely like Merrill's eluvian? Apparently even spirits avoid Black City so they wouldn't be tainted.
  • Primeval Thaig is overgrown by red lyrium and the thaig appears to have worshipped a red lyrium idol well before the darkspawn appeared. > Red lyrium, and thus the Taint, must have existed before the magisters assaulted Black City. 
  • Apparently the Claws of Dumat seen in the Fade during Here Lies the Abyss are indentical to statues found in Primeval Thaig. These as well as smaller winged statues can also be found in Heidrun Thaig, also predating First Blight. 
    > The Primeval Thaig and possibly Heidrun Thaig worshipped an entity that is also identified with Dumat? How does Dumat relate to red lyrium? This could be explained if A) Dumat was a Forgotten One / Old Gods and Forgotten Ones are the same thing and/or  B) They created / are the source of the Taint. C) Old Gods are Evanuris or parts of them, and Dumat is a part of Mythal. I don't personally like this theory, but it's possible.
  • (Why I believe Old Gods are Forgotten Ones and not the same as Evanuris? Fen'harel sealed Old Gods to the Void/Abyss and Evanuris to the Heaven. The Old Gods are not merely sleeping, but imprisoned, deep beneath the earth = abyss. Also, it'd be boring if literally everyone and their mother was an ancient elven god.)
  • We know the elvhen gods invaded the deep roads to mine lyrium. There are statues of Mythal found in the deep roads, so who's to say Dumat never invaded any areas for himself and have statues erected decipting how good he got his nails did.
  • So the ancient elves mined a Titan's body for lyrium, but the codex doesn't outright say the titan(s) was dead, just that Mythal struck it/them down. The elves then collapsed the mines out of fear, so what did they find that was so frightening? The Taint? The Void? And then the lyrium they mined got infected? 
    > what if Titans held something Very Bad in check and by striking them down the elves let that Very Bad loose? (Elgar'nan did throw the "Sun" into the abyss, didn't he? just a though)
  • The elven art found in DAI decipts sagging elven figures walking in line with red paint mixed on them - reminded me of red lyrium instantly (even on my first playthrough without having played any of the previous games). The elves here look eerily ghoulish. There is also a sun-like yellow sphere above them. Elgar'nan is associated with sun, so it could be these are Elgar'nan's slaves possibly infected by red lyrium/taint. He did apparently lead the ancient elves to drive dwarves underground. 
    > the figures are also bald - a trait shared by ancient elvhen in DA art everywhere and also by the elves we meet in person, but then again creatures infected by Taint also manifest hair loss and develope a sickly look - and these poor bastards definitely look sickly.
 
WHERE THE **** DOES IT COME FROM
 
  • Things to do with the Taint often seem to come back to blood. The wardens drink a mixture of darkspawn blood with lyrium and a drop of Archdemon blood to become wardens > they don't become ghouls like those who ingest regular darkspawn blood because archdemon blood is strong enough to have an immediate effect. Just.. shouldn't the lyrium also get infected here? 
    > apparently darkspawn seem to avoid lyrium or Titans - why? 
  • Maybe the Taint is in the blood of the Archdemons / Forgotten Ones / Old Gods?
    > Taint carries magical power. What else does? Lyrium, which is titan's blood. Blood mages also use blood (obviously) to do magic. Only mages born with the ability to tap in to the Fade and it's magicks are the ones who don't use blood? No. The magic and the ability to tap it is literally in their blood.
  • Where did the first darkspawn come though? Taint and ghouls existed before the magisters, but did darkspawn? A darkspawn is a creature born of a female that's force-fed darkspawn flesh and mutated into a broodmother. A ghoul is a person who gets infected by the Taint and doesn't immediately die. The seven magisters were  technically ghouls, not darkspawn.
    > do we know if any of these magisters were women? 
  • It's apparent there's Taint in the Void, whatever either of them actually is. Void can't be an actual void in the actual sense of the world because a strong spirit/mage/god Andruil can traipse there, and apparently so can the Forgotten Ones. Another word used for it is Abyss - an immeasurably deep chasm somewhere far underground?
  • Andruil went bonkers because she hunted Forgotten Ones in the Void - what if instead of the Void infecting her she just got bloodsplatter on her face and like an idiot, ingested it?
  • In any case there's also chance it was Andruil who brough the Taint to her world from the Void. She had an armor made of Void and weapons of darkness and plague ate her lands. A elvhen painting shows a figure in a black armor laced with red and a bunch of elves looking away from it, terrified. 
 
IN CONCLUSION, I FEEL CRAZY AND DONT HAVE A CONCLUSION
 
  • THEORY: (The Old Gods were like Hakkon, spirits bound to dragons, and) the masterminds behind the Taint used their blood to try and control people. Control the Old God/Archdemon and you'll control the darkspawn/ghouls. Why create a weapon like that? Darkspawn function as a hivemind so it sounds like a rather convenient way for a God facing a rebellion to make sure their slaves/subjects/enemies are easily controlled. 
  • THEORY: YOOOOOO WHAT IF the elves were so freaked out they had to collapse their lyrium mines because they found a Titan Tainted by an Forgotten One? And then the tainted lyrium infected some of the miners who maybe got a lil'bit cannibalistic, ate their friends and mutated... and started giving birth to Tainted parasite-babies, also known as darkspawn!
    > OR they found the dwarves they had driven underground, who had then come across said Tainted Titan, got infected and then some. And then the elves collapsed the mines, only awhile later Andruil did done fucked up and spread the infection anyway. As I understand it was Mythal whose mines were collapsed, for other gods it's not clear - who's to say someone like Elgar'nan or the Mad Scientist Ghilan'nain didn't think the Taint a bad thing, but rather something to useful to amass as a weapon?
    > How did the Titan get tainted by the Forgotten One, you say? Maybe some pissbag like Dumat kicked some titan ass and got some blood on it's corpse? Who knows. Or the other way around. In any case I don't think it's the darkspawn that corrupt the Old God they're looking for, the dragons are already corrupted and the darkspawn are maybe just waking them up.

 

 

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#2
Dai Grepher

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I think the red lyrium idol was regular lyrium at first, and then it was corrupted when the Magisters returned to the real world.

 

I think the red paint on the elvhen depictions is an indication of blood magic, not red lyrium.

 

I don't think any of the old gods are corrected with the evanuris beyond being rivals, like the Forbidden Ones  and Forgotten Ones were. I think the old gods predate the evanuris. Kieran shows knowledge of the titans if he has Urthemiel's soul.

 

Still, good work on posting all of this. I know it takes a lot of effort to present a complex theory.



#3
Feral'Hen

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- (About Grey Wardens) Grey like the Stone. Guardians against the darkness. - Ruck (DA: Origins)

- The Stone has a will that surrounds and directs; she guides even when we are willfully blind to her influence. But she is not pure. The Stone bears a corruption as old as balance. - Codex entry: The Gangue Shade

"Gangue" carved into walls. Could be translated from old dwarven as "Stone waste" or "Impure-spirit-of-the-stone". Dwarven superstition saw demons as "impure" spirits of rock? - Codex entry: Demons fo the Stone

- "The runes say the Evanuris fought the Titans. They mined their bodies for lyrium and... something else. It's not clear." - Inquisitor (DA: The Descent)

- "They made bodies from the earth. And the earth was afraid.It fought back. But they made it forget." - Cole (DA: Trespasser)

- "What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all." - Codex entry: Veilfire Runes in the Deep Roads

- "He broke the dreams to stop the old dreams from waking. The wolf chews its leg off to escape the trap." - Cole (DA: Trespasser)

- We know that darkspawn come from broodmothers. Perhaps at the very heart of our world sits a queen, the first mother. - Codex entry: The Eternal Battle: Darkspawn

- Mother's song leaks out of me. Liquid fire spills from my eyes, mouth and ears. I give her everything and become a verse in her chorus. I am finally complete. It was never about the words, only the song. - Codex entry: Klog's Journal

- It is widely believed that the Grim Anatomy's focus is on demonic possession, specifically how a demon, itself a tangible being, can enter into the mind of another and manipulate it. Here, the author observes the motor skills of a possessed wyvern. "It is not wearing the creature's skin," the notes read. "It has become the creature: its mind, its senses... its blood." - The World of Thedas vol.2

 

I think the Titans kept The Stone (whatever it is) pure protecting it from its own dark side, but then the elves came, war happened, the Titans died, and the Evanuris messed with The Stone to produce expendable soulless workers. Then **** happened, elves ran screaming like little girls, and Solas created the Veil to avoid the inevitable doom. When elven empire fell, whatever the elves awoke started to whisper dirty things to humanity, and then you know the story... so, long story short: the taint is demonic blood, and red lyrium is the blood of a possessed Titan/Stone.