53 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

Aside from elves, that is. In all these games we never do meet or hear about an Orlesian who isn't a noble.

Orlais seems like an utopian land.

[vbibbi]

They're in the 99% of Val Royeaux we didn't see. Any the 100% of non wilderness parts of Orlais that we saw.

[Ghost Gal]

I don't know, where are all the elves in the Dales?

 

Elven residents are supposed to vastly outnumber human residents, especially after humans supposedly started fleeing en masse after the civil war started, but in every area we visit in the Dales (Halamshiral, Emprise du Lion, the Emerald Graves, the Exalted Plains, etc), at most we encounter a handful of city elves and the occasional Dalish in an otherwise all-human area.

 

It seems Orlais was just a huge case of "Tell, Don't Show" this game. (We're told most Orlesians are impoverished peasants, yet we only ever encounter filthy rich 1%. We're told the Dales has a very large, very discontent elven population, we're shown an all-human population.)

[vbibbi]

Too bad Fairbanks wasn't an elf. He could have been a direct descendant of some Dales nobility rather than human nobility, and it would give more nuance to why he doesn't want to involve himself in human Orlesian politics.

[ModernAcademic]

Aside from elves, that is. In all these games we never do meet or hear about an Orlesian who isn't a noble.

Orlais seems like an utopian land.

 

I wish we could've walked around all of Val Royeaux and visited the suburbs, the middle class neighbourhoods, visited Orlais' agrarian regions, its small villages and historical sites...

 

Unfortunately, DA:I gave me the impression Orlais is just a small plaza (Val Royeaux) and Halamshiral. It's as if the rest of the country is just the wilderness...

[ThePhoenixKing]

I don't know, where are all the elves in the Dales?

 

Elven residents are supposed to vastly outnumber human residents, especially after humans supposedly started fleeing en masse after the civil war started, but in every area we visit in the Dales (Halamshiral, Emprise du Lion, the Emerald Graves, the Exalted Plains, etc), at most we encounter a handful of city elves and the occasional Dalish in an otherwise all-human area.

 

It seems Orlais was just a huge case of "Tell, Don't Show" this game. (We're told most Orlesians are impoverished peasants, yet we only ever encounter filthy rich 1%. We're told the Dales has a very large, very discontent elven population, we're shown an all-human population.)

 

So much of Inquisition had forgotten "Show, Don't Tell", but you raise a good point. Orlais felt like a backdrop, not a real place, and the lack of Val Royeaux alone was a huge mistake.

[Andromelek]

The poor in Orlais are sent to Ferelden , jokes aside weren't Emprise du Lion dudes poor people?

[thats1evildude]

Besides all the refugees in the Emerald Graves and the citizens of Emprise du Lion?

The poor in Orlais are sent to Ferelden , jokes aside weren't Emprise du Lion dudes poor people?

They were living in shacks and pressed into slavery by the Red Templars, so I would say that counts as poor.

[BioWareM0d13]

They're in the 99% of Val Royeaux we didn't see. Any the 100% of non wilderness parts of Orlais that we saw.

 

This.

 

On that note, Val Royeux was very disappointing. It was a bad decision by the devs to have a gazillion wilderness maps while limiting Val Royeux to one small, disappointing, and largely pointless marketplace. 

 

Hopefully in DA4 Minrathous will be something more along the lines of the Witcher's Novigrad, rather than a repeat of how DA:I handled it's non-Skyhold hub.

[vbibbi]

We don't know if they were poor. Their homes were destroyed and covered in the magically-induced snow. Didn't Imshael create that coldstorm in order to starve out the town and force the woman with the bald head and fugly hat to send citizens to become Red Templars? The houses I saw in that town looked like they would have been nice enough before they were destroyed, they weren't shacks that collapsed under the weight of snow.

 

The Sahrnia quarry was the only location of a certain type of granite, right? So it would have had a lot of income flowing in under normal circumstances.

 

"Sahrnia has fallen into severe economic decline in recent months. Thanks to the War of the Lions, the mining trade has ceased and a large force of Red templars have occupied the the surrounding hills, leaving the town completely isolated. Many of its citizens have been sold by Mistress Poulin and forced to work in the quarries now under control of the Red Templars."

 

 

There's a difference between refugees and poor. The poor would be poor and disenfranchised whether or not a civil war is going on. Refugees can come from many different socioeconomic backgrounds and were forced to flee their homes due to war. There were journals in EP about some rich families abandoning most of their valuables and leaving servants behind to bring things later. They are still refugees even though they're rich.

[Tidus]

The poor is probably like the Castless  in Orzammar out of sight and probably treated the same way as the Brands.

[vbibbi]

The poor is probably like the Castless  in Orzammar out of sight and probably treated the same way as the Brands.

Except we interacted at some length with the casteless and even had a companion (Sigrun) to provide additional depth to that background.

[Gervaise]

The poor are treated in pretty much the same way as children are; you hear about them but on the whole you don't see them.     Obviously numbers were fewer in the Emprise du Lion since many were being used to grow red lyrium, so all those red spikes you see were previously local peasants.    I think you can also assume that every peasant you do see is symbolic of a greater number actually being there.    So one peasant equals ten, or fifty, or a hundred, depending on how big you think the population should be.       When you think about it, Crestwood wasn't exactly crawling with peasants, even allowing for the fact they have been under attack by undead for some considerable time.    Back in Origins, the numbers of peasants in Denerim wasn't that great, nor elves in the alienage.     Ditto in Kirkwall in DA2, although at least there were more than we saw in DAI.      

 

The bit of Val Royeaux we were in was one of the noble areas, which is why we didn't see any peasants there.   The way I understand it, peasants simply would not have been allowed in that part of the city.   The nobles don't want anything inconvenient reminding them of the squalor that the majority of their citizens have to endure.    They are there all right in the poorer districts and Orlais is anything but a utopia    

[Tidus]

Except we interacted at some length with the casteless and even had a companion (Sigrun) to provide additional depth to that background.

 

Very true.. When I use a dwarf  I use a Brand.. Also in DA:A we see the Brands was left behind to fight the Darkspawn.

[vbibbi]

It's just such a missed opportunity to show more of Orlais. We should have seen the awful VR alienage and understand what Briala was fighting for. Show Sera fighting for the little people she mentions but we never see. What we see of Orlais isn't any more than what we learned from MotA or ME. We got a detailed look into Fereldan in DAO but DAI treats Orlais as a shallow joke. It's never given any real substance.

[ComedicSociopathy]

It's just such a missed opportunity to show more of Orlais. We should have seen the awful VR alienage and understand what Briala was fighting for. Show Sera fighting for the little people she mentions but we never see. What we see of Orlais isn't any more than what we learned from MotA or ME. We got a detailed look into Fereldan in DAO but DAI treats Orlais as a shallow joke. It's never given any real substance.

 

To be fair, most Orlesian are quite shallow. At least the nobles are anyway. 

[vbibbi]

To be fair, most Orlesian are quite shallow. At least the nobles are anyway.

But that's exactly the point! Nothing we learn in DAI challenges the stereotypes presented by the first two games. Good writing would not treat an entire nation like a joke, especially if it's supposed to be the most powerful nation in the world, good writing would turn our assumptions about Orlais upside down by revealing actual depth and nuance to a nation. Instead, it remains a thin expy of French stereotypes

[ComedicSociopathy]

But that's exactly the point! Nothing we learn in DAI challenges the stereotypes presented by the first two games. Good writing would not treat an entire nation like a joke, especially if it's supposed to be the most powerful nation in the world, good writing would turn our assumptions about Orlais upside down by revealing actual depth and nuance to a nation. Instead, it remains a thin expy of French stereotypes

 

Yeah, but Vivienne was at least culturally Orlesian and she was...

 

Uh...well...

 

Alright you have a point, most Orlasians in DA:I are snotty, fashionistas and obsessed with their Game of Douchebaggery. 

 

Then again, Sera is technically a immigrant to Orlais just as much as Vivienne is. So there you go, a character that doesn't play up to stereotypes of Orlesians. 

[vbibbi]

Yeah, but Vivienne was at least culturally Orlesian and she was...
 
Uh...well...
 
Alright you have a point, most Orlasians in DA:I are snotty, fashionistas and obsessed with their Game of Douchebaggery. 
 
Then again, Sera is technically a immigrant to Orlais just as much as Vivienne is. So there you go, a character that doesn't play up to stereotypes of Orlesians. 

Did Sera identify as Orlesian? I don't think she did, she identified as being from here and there, growing up in Denerim and then traveling between cities with the Jennies. She just happened to lately be in VR.

Vivienne was as much of the Orlais stereotype as we needed in the game. We needed more anti-Vivienne perspective.

[Ashagar]

Apparently the game is central to Oralisan identity to the point its like trying to divorce dogs from the Ferelden identity or getting more than one free march city to work together.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Did Sera identify as Orlesian? I don't think she did, she identified as being from here and there, growing up in Denerim and then traveling between cities with the Jennies. She just happened to lately be in VR.

Vivienne was as much of the Orlais stereotype as we needed in the game. We needed more anti-Vivienne perspective.

 

No, she most definitely did not. I'd imagine that if she forced to answer she'd say she was a Ferelden, but since she plays a game with Dorian called "My people are sh*t" and constantly avoids mentioning that she's Ferelden I think she quite honestly doesn't give a damn about her Ferelden heritage. Sera's doesn't really identify as an elf, Ferelden or Orlesian. She's cultural nothing and I think that both satisfies her and makes her afraid. 

 

Anyways, if I really had to give an example of someone was anti-Vivienne in terms of Orlesian stereotypes I'd say Michel is candidate. 

[Andromelek]

Anyways, if I really had to give an example of someone was anti-Vivienne in terms of Orlesian stereotypes I'd say Michel is candidate.

Prosper and Cyril (Trespasser) weren't on the stereotypical picture of the Orlesians either.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Prosper and Cyril (Trespasser) weren't on the stereotypical picture of the Orlesians either.

 

Never played the DLC with Prosper, but Cyril had the Orlesian trait of being a political player using flattery and niceness to, as Dorian puts it, put the Inquisition on a leash and collar. 

[BansheeOwnage]

I don't know, where are all the elves in the Dales?

 

Elven residents are supposed to vastly outnumber human residents, especially after humans supposedly started fleeing en masse after the civil war started, but in every area we visit in the Dales (Halamshiral, Emprise du Lion, the Emerald Graves, the Exalted Plains, etc), at most we encounter a handful of city elves and the occasional Dalish in an otherwise all-human area.

 

It seems Orlais was just a huge case of "Tell, Don't Show" this game. (We're told most Orlesians are impoverished peasants, yet we only ever encounter filthy rich 1%. We're told the Dales has a very large, very discontent elven population, we're shown an all-human population.)

I know it's already been mentioned, but you can definitely add Val Royeaux to that list. We barely scratched the surface even area-wise. Even less in terms of interesting things to do there. I miss cities. Hopefully DA4 has impressive ones.

 

We don't know if they were poor. Their homes were destroyed and covered in the magically-induced snow. Didn't Imshael create that coldstorm in order to starve out the town and force the woman with the bald head and fugly hat to send citizens to become Red Templars?

Wait, is that what happened?    I got that it got cold really fast, which was suspicious, but I never found out why in-game. Also, in case you wanted to know, she's called Mistress Poulin.

[Master Warder Z_]

Mistress of Poutine huh