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[vbibbi]

I know it's already been mentioned, but you can definitely add Val Royeaux to that list. We barely scratched the surface even area wise. Even less in terms of interesting things to do there. I miss cities. Hopefully DA4 has impressive ones.

Wait, is that what happened? I got that it got cold really fast, which was suspicious, but I never found out why in-game. Also, in case you wanted to know, she's called Mistress Poulin.

Thanks yeah I couldn't remember her name or title!

I'm not certain the weather was due to Imshael but I think it's strongly suggested. I think Harding mentions how this isn't a normal cold spell, as the river froze while boats were traveling on it. Everything froze immediately and the people were unable to leave to get help. That made it easier for the Templars to prey on the miners without anyone coming to investigate.

At least that is what I got from piecing together what we learned in EdL. It's never explicitly stated anywhere.

[Master Warder Z_]

._. How did the Templars get there if the river froze

[vbibbi]

They were already there. They came along with Imshael, and he was the one who brought the flash freeze (to my understanding). And then they converted the locals into more templars.

[thats1evildude]

A Codex in Suledin Keep makes it clear that the Red Templars at first appeared as benefactors to the region, which was facing economic ruination due to the war (not much need for fine granite). They re-opened the quarry and offered to employ people. They did this to keep the secret of what they were doing (sowing Emprise du Lion with red lyrium) as long as possible.

 

When the pretense had to be dropped, the river froze and the Fade Rifts appeared. Between them and the Red Templars, the people of Sahrnia were trapped.

[Master Warder Z_]

No I mean, where they did literally come from, the river to my knowledge is the only way into and out of the Emprise...

 

._.

[thats1evildude]

Well, when the river wasn't frozen, they probably boated there. Note that the Templars arrived before the deep freeze.

[Master Warder Z_]

Well, when the river wasn't frozen, they probably boated there. Note that the Templars arrived before the deep freeze.

 

Obviously, but you figure a bunch of Templars would be noted as arriving, you figure some would note the odd hundred or so of them.

 

Just saying.

[thats1evildude]

Like I said, the people of Sahrnia were facing the prospect of being a Dying Town with all their workers heading on to the cities to find employment. When the Templars came throwing money around and promising to provide employment, the Sahrnians didn't look too closely at their benefactors, and the Orlesian crown was occupied elsewhere.

 

It was the same mistake that the Freemen of the Dales made, believing that the Red Templars were acting in their common interest and offering them gold and supplies. It was only later that they realized the Red Templars were monsters.

[Master Warder Z_]

Like I said, the people of Sahrnia were facing the prospect of being a Dying Town with all their workers heading on to the cities to find employment. When the Templars came throwing money around and promising to provide employment, the Sahrnians didn't look too closely at their benefactors, and the Orlesian crown was occupied elsewhere.

 

It was the same mistake that the Freemen of the Dales made, believing that the Red Templars were acting in their common interest and offering them gold and supplies. It was only later that they realized the Red Templars were monsters.

 

I think they could have just explained the situation better, you figure that Templars-those who aren't part of the Inquisition or dead for that matter by this point would be note worthy.

[Carmen_Willow]

Origins did the best job with Denerim. You saw the market, the palace, and the alienage (And it was a much better representation of a ghetto than Kirkwall's - I always thought that a Denerim elf would have considered Kirkwall's alienage heaven.) You saw back alley's and warehouses. Much better job. Val Royeaux was disappointing.

[ThePhoenixKing]

Origins did the best job with Denerim. You saw the market, the palace, and the alienage (And it was a much better representation of a ghetto than Kirkwall's - I always thought that a Denerim elf would have considered Kirkwall's alienage heaven.) You saw back alley's and warehouses. Much better job. Val Royeaux was disappointing.

 

Indeed, Denerim (and Ferelden in general) felt like a real, actualized place, and one worth fighting for. Not having that sense of place in Inquisition was a big misstep, no matter how pretty the environments were.

[Master Warder Z_]

Indeed, Denerim (and Ferelden in general) felt like a real, actualized place, and one worth fighting for. Not having that sense of place in Inquisition was a big misstep, no matter how pretty the environments were.

 

I still say Jade Empire had prettier environments 

[BansheeOwnage]

Thanks yeah I couldn't remember her name or title!

I'm not certain the weather was due to Imshael but I think it's strongly suggested. I think Harding mentions how this isn't a normal cold spell, as the river froze while boats were traveling on it. Everything froze immediately and the people were unable to leave to get help. That made it easier for the Templars to prey on the miners without anyone coming to investigate.

At least that is what I got from piecing together what we learned in EdL. It's never explicitly stated anywhere.

You're welcome! Haha, "weather". I see what you did there Hmm, okay. Well, that's certainly the best (and only) explanation I've heard about how it froze.

 

Edit: My bad, I misread the "weather" part. I speed-read "I'm not certain weather (whether) it was due" instead of "I'm not certain the weather was due". Oh well.

 

Origins did the best job with Denerim. You saw the market, the palace, and the alienage (And it was a much better representation of a ghetto than Kirkwall's - I always thought that a Denerim elf would have considered Kirkwall's alienage heaven.) You saw back alley's and warehouses. Much better job. Val Royeaux was disappointing.

I really miss Orzammar, too. I hoped we'd get to go back there in Descent, or Kal-Sharok. Heck, I though we'd revisit Orzammar in the base game

[Bad King]

We didn't get to see the squalor and slums like we did in Origins and ][ - Inquisition is a lot more colourful and high fantasy-esque than its more dark fantasy predecessors. As well as only seeing the colourful, quaint, wealthy areas of Orlais, we were also exposed to bright Sahara style deserts and vivid sub-tropical rainforest - completely different to the landscapes of the previous two games despite being on a similar latitude.

 

It's a shame really, I enjoyed the gritty, dark fantasy aspects of Origins - particularly the squalor of the city elves. It would have been nice to have seen more of the harsh realities of life for most Orlesians (living in putrid slums at the mercy of the chevaliers who were free to do whatever they wanted to peasant people) to give us a better perspective of the totality of Orlesian culture. I feel that this might have influenced people's decisions more with regard to the Halamshiral quest in which we saw the excessive wealth and corruption of the upper echelons of Orlais.

[Ashagar]

I will agree inquisition is generally more colorful though it does have its dark moments but neither origins or II were remotely anything like dark fantasy, they simply had some dark tones and invoked that tired old unrealistic trope of brown being 'real'.

[Bad King]

I will agree inquisition is generally more colorful though it does have its dark moments but neither origins or II were remotely anything like dark fantasy, they simply had some dark tones and invoked that tired old unrealistic trope of brown being 'real'.

 

Origins was a very compartmentalised game - there were some very horrific and dark aspects in certain quest lines (particularly the Alienage and the Deep Roads) while other areas felt more high fantasy (such as the Brecilian Forest with its living trees and its crazy magical hermit).

 

On the whole however, it's much closer to the dark fantasy side of the continuum than Inquisition is - even ignoring the colour aspect, I don't remember there being a great deal of explicit horror, oppression or dread in any of Inquisition's quests, the only exception being the mage quest.

[Ashagar]

There was the nightmare and its realm and the envy's dream world both of which were far more disturbing than anything that was in the previous games, there is that manor in the Emerald Graves with its undead and dark backstory, that mining town region with the red lyrium growing everywhere with the towns people being used as slaves to mine and grow Red Lyrium by the red Templars.

[Bad King]

There was the nightmare and its realm and the envy's dream world both of which were far more disturbing than anything that was in the previous games, there is that manor in the Emerald Graves with its undead and dark backstory, that mining town region with the red lyrium growing everywhere with the towns people being used as slaves to mine and grow Red Lyrium by the red Templars.

 

I personally didn't Nightmare that frightening - its design was horrific and well done, but to me it was more of an interesting concept than something disturbing: its realm looked much like any other part of the fade, albeit with some horror creatures running around (manifested as spiders) on top of the usual demons. Envy's projection was interesting too, but as it was completely conjectural, I didn't feel that it carried anything near the same weight as the alternative future seen in the mage quest. The other examples that you gave are in my view too peripheral to the narrative, and though disturbing are only very minor aspects of the game and not experienced very personally.

 

In DA:O meanwhile, almost every Origin story ended in some horrific manner and we as players experienced every part of that. The human noble's family, house and allies wiped out, the dwarf noble betrayed and then ostracised by his/her society, the dalish elf losing his/her best friend then later seeing him as a grotesque, twisted creature, the city elf's experience of the rape and murder of family and friends by a noble etc. But worst of all for me was the broodmother reveal (in regard to how the darkspawn reproduce) which in my view is the most disturbing thing ever written in any Dragon Age game or literature. Other dark aspects of the main narrative would be the entire Redcliffe arc and the mage tower quest. 

 

Ultimately, what we decide is disturbing is going to be very subjective, but I do feel that DA:O had a lot more dark fantasy aspects at its core and furthermore did overall feel more realistic than the more flamboyant Inquisition (in its culture, architecture and depiction of society and class: as this thread demonstrates). The styles of the two games are markedly different, and I see Inquisition's style as much closer to high fantasy than to dark fantasy (in relation to Origins).

[Ashagar]

Such things are indeed objective though orgins walked the lines between low and high fantasy but it was hardly dark fantasy to me, of course when I think Dark Fantasy I think of works like thief's world and the black company.

[Aimi]

As well as only seeing the colourful, quaint, wealthy areas of Orlais, [...]

Emerald Graves, Exalted Plains, Emprise du Lion?

It would have been nice to have seen more of the harsh realities of life for most Orlesians (living in putrid slums at the mercy of the chevaliers who were free to do whatever they wanted to peasant people)

most Orlesians don't live in urban settings because factories and railroads and refrigeration don't exist yet

so most Orlesians don't live in putrid slums

[BloodKaiden]

Bahaha, its Orlais. They don't have poor.

[Carmen_Willow]

You're welcome! Haha, "weather". I see what you did there Hmm, okay. Well, that's certainly the best (and only) explanation I've heard about how it froze.

 

Edit: My bad, I misread the "weather" part. I speed-read "I'm not certain weather (whether) it was due" instead of "I'm not certain the weather was due". Oh well.

 

I really miss Orzammar, too. I hoped we'd get to go back there in Descent, or Kal-Sharok. Heck, I though we'd revisit Orzammar in the base game

I still think Origins Deep Roads were fantastic.  My first few times playing the game, it really felt like I was miles below the surface of the earth in a lost world, crumbling slowly to dust.

[ThePhoenixKing]

I still think Origins Deep Roads were fantastic.  My first few times playing the game, it really felt like I was miles below the surface of the earth in a lost world, crumbling slowly to dust.

 

Yeah, there was this looming sense of dread present in the Origins Deep Roads, the understanding that we were knee-deep in enemy territory and danger was lurking all around. And of course, add in the Broodmother, the Archdemon's little rally and Hespith's poem, and you have a great recipe for a lot of tension.

[vbibbi]

The Descent was obviously more gorgeous and gave a sense of the magnitude of the Deep Roads. But Hespith and the BM are some of the most disturbing scenes from the entire DA universe. The maps weren't always the most interesting but there was some chilling scenes to it.

[thats1evildude]

Oh, I like the section with the Sha-Brytol's first appearance. Those glowing eyes in the dark ...