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Theory: Possible Consequences of the Well Of Mythal Choice


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#1
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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I took a serious break from the forums for a while, and this could easily have come up while I wasn't looking. If it has, I apologize. If not, enjoy.

 

What if when Solas absorbed whatever it was he took from Flemeth, the spirit of Mythal and the associated control of the host of the Well of Sorrows passed to him? And what if when Solas faces whatever PC Bioware assigns to stop him (presumably the hero of DA4) and realizes they have a chance, he decides to use this control to force either Morrigan or the Inquisitor to fight the new PC to the death? What if when you chose between Morrigan drinking from the well and the Inquisitor, you were unknowingly choosing who gets to outlive Solas?

 

Admittedly, we don't know that Solas actually absorbed Mythal. But I don't think that interpretation is a stretch and I know I'm not the only one who interprets the last scene of the main quest that way. For it to work out exactly this way depends on Bioware's willingness to let you kill a past PC, but they're provably willing to do that. For it to be an actual fight in which you could credibly have no choice but to kill the Inquisitor depends on the Inquisitor not being completely useless without their left hand, but that's also not 100% inconceivable. All they need is a weapon they can wield in one hand, or a prosthesis that can be weaponized, or both. Or magic.

 

And of course for a choice like this to happen depends on Bioware being willing put in the work needed to create a game that markedly varies from one World State to another, but depending on whether Kieran has the Old God Soul or not he either lures you into the Fade to meet Flemeth or can't, and the latter forces you to make a trip out of Skyhold you otherwise wouldn't have to. Meanwhile, my understanding is that I skipped having to fight a High Dragon by letting Morrigan drink from the well. Not to mention the different enemies in In Your Heart Shall Burn and different last boss in the Temple of Mythal itself depending on which of the factions you recruited. So, between all that varying content, there's at least a nonzero-chance Bioware's willing to put in a varying boss based on your Inquisitor's race, class, and specialization (all of which is in the Keep, and I listed them in order from most to least relevant if the Inquisitor never has to fight again) which you won't even have to fight if you instead decided last game that the future PC will fight the shapechanging human mage boss.

 

If this seems like a harsh punishment for letting your Inquisitor gain the lost elven knowledge (and keeping this knowledge away from Morrigan, if such was your rationale,) all I can say (apart from "we won't know for sure until we play the game we face Solas in") is that you knew this was coming at the cost of selling your Inquisitor's free will to a being whose motivations you knew or should have known you didn't know.



#2
Dai Grepher

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It's beyond BioWare's pay grade anyway. The option is too unworkable for them. Morrigan has too many connections to other characters, such as the Hero and Kieran. She is also "the Inheritor". Plus, fighting her as a mage would probably be an easy fight. It would also be no different from fighting Solas really. The only way to make it interesting would be to have her transform into a dragon.

 

Then there's the (ex)Inquisitor. He can possibly be a lyrium addicted cripple who can't lift his 2H weapon to save his life.

 

So it would really just come down to Solas using either one as a human shield while he catches his breath or something. Or he could pull something sinister and force you to kill the person in order to complete some important objective.

 

However, I have not seen any evidence that Solas took anything from Flemeth in the closing scene. All her energy passed into the eluvian. At best Solas only gained the opportunity to enter that eluvian. Everything else in that scene looked to be his own power.

 

It's also possible that Flemeth released Morrigan from the compulsion after passing on her knowledge of the dragon form to her.

 

I do like the idea that the (ex)Inquisitor or Morrigan will be used via the compulsion in the future, but I think it will be Mythal who does this, not Solas. Mythal being the female who floated out of the Well of Sorrows and into the eluvian. The DA4 protag would then have to save either of them from the compulsion without killing them. Or maybe the protag has the choice to kill them.



#3
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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It's beyond BioWare's pay grade anyway. The option is too unworkable for them. Morrigan has too many connections to other characters, such as the Hero and Kieran. She is also "the Inheritor".

I'm not sure how any of this means Bioware can't kill her if something happens that would logically cause her death. Fiona knew most of the other movers and shakers too, and she dies if your choices force you to kill her. Nor do I see how anything regarding decisions about a world they own can be "above their pay grade."

 

 

Plus, fighting her as a mage would probably be an easy fight. It would also be no different from fighting Solas really. The only way to make it interesting would be to have her transform into a dragon.

Dragon isn't the only form she has that could be useful. Bear, Giant Spider... heck, there's nothing stopping her from figuring out how to turn into a gurgut or a poisonous snake. If they do this right, it could be a really, really interesting boss fight. Especially if they bring back that Master Shapechanger trick from Origins and give her powers the base animals don't actually have. But even if we assume that she needs to go dragon to be a threat, the fact remains that she can do that.

 

 

Then there's the (ex)Inquisitor. He can possibly be a lyrium addicted cripple who can't lift his 2H weapon to save his life.

I do agree with you that the former Inquisitor can't lift a two handed weapon to save his life at this point. But you'll note that what weapon style he's been using isn't in the Keep. Probably partially because if he does ever end up fighting again he's going to need to use a style that can work with one hand, which neither of the styles a warrior Quizzy could have used in Inquisition can count under.

 

As for the lyrium addiction, Cullen can be assumed to have recently gotten onto lyrium during Origins. It takes him more than ten years after Origins to give in. So, there's not necessarily any reason for the Inquisitor to give in before Solas has to do this.

 

 


So it would really just come down to Solas using either one as a human shield while he catches his breath or something. Or he could pull something sinister and force you to kill the person in order to complete some important objective.

Not quite what I was picturing, but not entirely inconsistent with it either.

 

 

 

However, I have not seen any evidence that Solas took anything from Flemeth in the closing scene. All her energy passed into the eluvian. At best Solas only gained the opportunity to enter that eluvian. Everything else in that scene looked to be his own power.

I think I remember seeing blue lines of energy flowing into Solas, and I'm sure I remember his eyes and mouth glowing the same color as the energy she was giving off. Nor do I see how he'd gain the power to enter the eluvian without also gaining Mythal's power.

 

 

 

It's also possible that Flemeth released Morrigan from the compulsion after passing on her knowledge of the dragon form to her.

It's possible, but that just seems... cheap. Like there's no reason for there to be a permanent geas on the well at all, narratively speaking of course, if it goes away that easily. Part of the reason my theory seems to me to work is because it provides the sort of grave consequences you're supposed to expect that scene to have from all the buildup.

 

 

I do like the idea that the (ex)Inquisitor or Morrigan will be used via the compulsion in the future, but I think it will be Mythal who does this, not Solas. Mythal being the female who floated out of the Well of Sorrows and into the eluvian. The DA4 protag would then have to save either of them from the compulsion without killing them. Or maybe the protag has the choice to kill them.

Except that Mythal is supposed to be in Flemeth, and also pretty much entirely dead (hence why she's there.) I could also believe that the geas could be broken, but again... it just doesn't seem to fit with the grave consequences that scene impresses on us that the Well is supposed to have.



#4
Gold Dragon

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Assumption:  Morrigan Performed the Dark Ritual.

 

Assumption:  Morrigan drank from the Well.

 

If the Dark Ritual isn't completed, Kieran doesn't exist, and if the (now former) Inquisitor was the one to drink from the well, she doesn't have a dragon form, either, thus weakening her, too.



#5
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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Assumption:  Morrigan Performed the Dark Ritual.

 

Assumption:  Morrigan drank from the Well.

 

If the Dark Ritual isn't completed, Kieran doesn't exist, and if the (now former) Inquisitor was the one to drink from the well, she doesn't have a dragon form, either, thus weakening her, too.

I don't see how either of us made any arguments that specifically require Kieran to exist (even if both of us worded what we said in a way that implied that he did,) and under the scenario I set forth for how Morrigan could be a boss in DA4 it's reasonable to assume she has a dragon form since the scenario I set forth means that she's only a boss if she did drink from the Well.



#6
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It seems a stretch to assume whatever he took would compel disembodied voices to make you or Morrigan want to follow him as the well is pretty much the sum total of the will and knowledge of Mythal's priests and I'm fairly sure they'd question following something that clearly wasn't Mythal.  Taking a god/demigod's power doesn't automatically make their followers yours.

 

Also again this all assumes that the Warden killed DAO Flemmeth and she didn't create another shard of herself between DA2 and the end of Inquistion.



#7
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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It seems a stretch to assume whatever he took would compel disembodied voices to make you or Morrigan want to follow him as the well is pretty much the sum total of the will and knowledge of Mythal's priests and I'm fairly sure they'd question following something that clearly wasn't Mythal.  Taking a god/demigod's power doesn't automatically make their followers yours.

 

Also again this all assumes that the Warden killed DAO Flemmeth and she didn't create another shard of herself between DA2 and the end of Inquistion.

If what he took was Mythal's spirit, I think that answers all of this. If it wasn't my theory isn't even worth the effort to argue against, since that's the assumption I start with.

 

Having Mythal's spirit provably gives Flemeth control over whoever drank from the Well. If that's what Solas took, then I can't think of any reason it should work differently for him. (Unless it's sexist?) And even if Flemeth can resurrect herself the way she did in DA2 without Mythal's spirit, she doesn't have much say over what Solas does with Mythal now that he's absorbed her.



#8
Dai Grepher

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I'm not sure how any of this means Bioware can't kill her if something happens that would logically cause her death. Fiona knew most of the other movers and shakers too, and she dies if your choices force you to kill her. Nor do I see how anything regarding decisions about a world they own can be "above their pay grade."

 

 

Dragon isn't the only form she has that could be useful. Bear, Giant Spider... heck, there's nothing stopping her from figuring out how to turn into a gurgut or a poisonous snake. If they do this right, it could be a really, really interesting boss fight. Especially if they bring back that Master Shapechanger trick from Origins and give her powers the base animals don't actually have. But even if we assume that she needs to go dragon to be a threat, the fact remains that she can do that.

 

 

I do agree with you that the former Inquisitor can't lift a two handed weapon to save his life at this point. But you'll note that what weapon style he's been using isn't in the Keep. Probably partially because if he does ever end up fighting again he's going to need to use a style that can work with one hand, which neither of the styles a warrior Quizzy could have used in Inquisition can count under.

 

As for the lyrium addiction, Cullen can be assumed to have recently gotten onto lyrium during Origins. It takes him more than ten years after Origins to give in. So, there's not necessarily any reason for the Inquisitor to give in before Solas has to do this.

 

 

Not quite what I was picturing, but not entirely inconsistent with it either.

 

 

I think I remember seeing blue lines of energy flowing into Solas, and I'm sure I remember his eyes and mouth glowing the same color as the energy she was giving off. Nor do I see how he'd gain the power to enter the eluvian without also gaining Mythal's power.

 

 

It's possible, but that just seems... cheap. Like there's no reason for there to be a permanent geas on the well at all, narratively speaking of course, if it goes away that easily. Part of the reason my theory seems to me to work is because it provides the sort of grave consequences you're supposed to expect that scene to have from all the buildup.

 

 

Except that Mythal is supposed to be in Flemeth, and also pretty much entirely dead (hence why she's there.) I could also believe that the geas could be broken, but again... it just doesn't seem to fit with the grave consequences that scene impresses on us that the Well is supposed to have.

 

It isn't that they can't kill her off, it's that doing so will cause too many variants for BioWare to account for. Fiona was a book character that most people didn't know about until DA:I. And even if you side with mages, she plays little to no role in the game. She's easy to account for. Morrigan on the other hand would require some more major storyline alterations, all for an option that might not even be chosen. It's the reason why stabbing her in Witch Hunt doesn't result in her death. Accounting for all the worldstate combos tied to Morrigan is above their pay grade because when you start talking about multiple variables in the storyline, beads of sweat start to form on the brows of BioWare's programmers and developers. They would rather wrap up every possible version of Morrigan with one or two outcomes. Killing her means accounting for many different characters and plots that she's tied to. And for what? The segment of players who had her drink from the Well? Meaning she could still be alive, thus still tied to the other characters and plots. It's too much for BioWare to account for. At best, we would only get a battle where the opponent is knocked out at the end.

 

Yeah, I doubt a generic animal would make for an interesting boss fight. The only thing that would make that interesting is quick changes from one form to another, which the games have implied isn't possible. But I suppose an exception could be made.

 

It's not in Keep, but players still know what style their character used. Logically, that character should be worse off, even if that character focuses solely on S&S training in the time between the end of DA:I and the next game. A character who was S&S the whole time shouldn't have that much trouble adapting, but a 2H should.

 

Well that's lyrium... Alzheimer's, dementia, or whatever. Lyrium addiction happens soon after becoming a templar. Meaning, the (x)Inquiz will need lyrium in order to avoid the effects of lyrium withdrawal. Cullen was experiencing the symptoms because he had chosen to stop taking lyrium at that point. But Alistair confirms that the addiction sets in soon after becoming a templar. According to Alistair, he was only started out on lyrium when he was conscripted into the Wardens, so he hadn't received enough doses to become addicted.

 

All the blue energy flows into the eluvian, which is where that Well spirit is now, I would imagine. Solas' eyes glow as Abelas' can in the scenario where Morrigan stabs him. However, this could just be a trait that the evanuris or even the elvhen display in general. It might not be unique to Mythal, which, now that I think about it, did Flemeth display this glowing eye ability? I don't remember that being the case. As for using the eluvian, the Qunari seemed to have no trouble using them without Mythal's powers.

 

It might seem that way, but even if this is the case, the main point of the geas threat is the whole risk/reward aspect. Do you go for ancient knowledge that might benefit you greatly at the risk of possible mind control? But yes, it would be cheap to drop the plotline of future consequences simply because there is a new "villain". However, I think there actually is a way to have Flemeth remove the compulsion over the Inquisitor. I only saw it in a video, and it required specific circumstances, namely Kieran must have Urthemiel's soul and give it over to Flemeth, and I think the Inquisitor had to inquire about the compulsion, then Flemeth agrees to remove it. Or maybe I'm imagining things, but that's what it looked like to me. I'll search YouTube later.

 

The main idea of the geas can still be presented even if the consequences are negated in the future. The point is the possibility for grave consequences exists. But DA:I didn't handle the consequences properly even in the game. If the Inquisitor drinks, he can say to Vivienne that he's terrified about being controlled, and she will say that she will do everything in her power to help the Inquisitor break free from the binding (even promising Circle resources). But this is never touched on again. Trespasser even assumes you stayed as the head of the Inquisition even though your mind has been compromised. So it seems BioWare is no good at these alternate possibilities anyway. They have their story in mind, and they will pull you into it no matter how much you may want to deviate from it.

 

As for Flemeth, I think it's safe to assume that she has multiple clones of herself. The Shrine has a clone lying in wait. She put a clone into the amulet she gave Hawke. I'm sure that was a clone in the Fade if Kieran carried the old god soul. Her bodies are basically containers for souls, as well as proxies she can use to communicate. The one Solas wrecked at the eluvian was probably just another clone.

 

And Mythal seems to have only given Flemeth a part of her power. If the woman in the Well is Mythal, then it seems her main consciousness had been regenerating in the Well since her murder, and she only offered the original Flemeth part of her power in order to push world events toward her eventual release from the Well and into the eluvian network. Nabbing Urthemiel's soul was probably meant to be a bonus in restoring Mythal to her original power.



#9
vbibbi

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I am interested in how the Well of Souls choice will be resolved, if at all. If the Inquisitor does come into DA4 in some form, I would hope that drinking from the Well would have some consequence. This would strongly indicate that an appearance by the Inquisitor could not be the PC in the next game, as being controlled by the antagonist would be an instant-failure scenario. Or if not instant failure, what would replace this scenario if the Inquisitor hadn't drank from the Well?

 

It also depends on whether we'll spend the majority of the next game in Tevinter or in additional locations. I don't know why, but I don't see Morrigan doing well in Tevinter. She's fairly unique as an ancient historian dedicated to preserving lost arcane knowledge in Southern Thedas, but I think she'll be surrounded by others with the same interests in Tevinter. And Morrigan doesn't like being on equal footing as others.


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#10
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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It isn't that they can't kill her off, it's that doing so will cause too many variants for BioWare to account for. Fiona was a book character that most people didn't know about until DA:I. And even if you side with mages, she plays little to no role in the game. She's easy to account for. Morrigan on the other hand would require some more major storyline alterations, all for an option that might not even be chosen. It's the reason why stabbing her in Witch Hunt doesn't result in her death. Accounting for all the worldstate combos tied to Morrigan is above their pay grade because when you start talking about multiple variables in the storyline, beads of sweat start to form on the brows of BioWare's programmers and developers. They would rather wrap up every possible version of Morrigan with one or two outcomes. Killing her means accounting for many different characters and plots that she's tied to. And for what? The segment of players who had her drink from the Well? Meaning she could still be alive, thus still tied to the other characters and plots. It's too much for BioWare to account for. At best, we would only get a battle where the opponent is knocked out at the end.

The problem is that I think I could probably have said much of what you're arguing about Morrigan about Hawke or Loghain before Inquisition came out.

 

Or Alistair. Especially Alistair. By the end of Inquisition he could have died in one of three different ways, or become the de facto highest ranking Warden in the region of Orlais and Ferelden (which may or may not also mean he has to lead their withdrawal from that region,) or could be King (plus or minus a wife,) or could be an alcoholic Teagan retrieved from Kirkwall. Oh, and he might have a bastard. Clearly Bioware's okay with having a lot of variables tied to one character.

 

 

Yeah, I doubt a generic animal would make for an interesting boss fight. The only thing that would make that interesting is quick changes from one form to another, which the games have implied isn't possible. But I suppose an exception could be made.

Have they implied that? I remember that according to game mechanics it takes a while to take a new form (probably in a misguided attempt to nerf a spec that didn't at all need it,) but we watch Morrigan change in the blink of an eye in cutscenes. And I don't think we see any decent evidence that she needs to wait for a cooldown to end before switching from one animal to human to another animal. Or even that she needs to return to human form before becoming another animal.

 

 

 And It's not in Keep, but players still know what style their character used. Logically, that character should be worse off, even if that character focuses solely on S&S training in the time between the end of DA:I and the next game. A character who was S&S the whole time shouldn't have that much trouble adapting, but a 2H should.

My point in saying that the Keep doesn't track fighting styles is that it means the game probably doesn't know. Either the question is never going to come up (most likely) or the player picks during the course of gameplay (which there's no reason to do with a situation that could easily be handled by a button press in the Keep; we designed Hawke's face in Inquisition because that's not simply a matter of picking an option from a list.) And the two possibilities for why it doesn't matter are either that the Inquisitor never fights again (which I'm not arguing is impossible) or that they all use a generic one-handed style depending on their class (which I'm trying to say isn't impossible.)

 

As for the former Inquisitor having trouble adapting, that's not entirely wrong, but since the Inquisitor can use either dual daggers or a S&S combo regardless of whether they're specced well for them (assuming they're not a mage,) and the game probably doesn't know whether the former Inquisitor was specced for them, the game might just be assuming the Inquisitor knows how to use a one-handed weapon appropriate for their class. (Assuming, again, that the Inquisitor is not a mage, which might make losing a hand less of an obstacle. I think I recall that it was said Sketch would not be able to fight if he lost both his hands, but I don't know that we know that to be true and at any rate the Inquisitor has a hand.)

 

 

Well that's lyrium... Alzheimer's, dementia, or whatever. Lyrium addiction happens soon after becoming a templar. Meaning, the (x)Inquiz will need lyrium in order to avoid the effects of lyrium withdrawal. Cullen was experiencing the symptoms because he had chosen to stop taking lyrium at that point. But Alistair confirms that the addiction sets in soon after becoming a templar. According to Alistair, he was only started out on lyrium when he was conscripted into the Wardens, so he hadn't received enough doses to become addicted.

My point is that with the lyrium, Cullen manages to go slightly more than ten years before his tolerance gets too high to avoid withdrawal. And that's assuming he was addicted less than a year before Origins starts, which I don't know we can be sure of. Which means that unless either Solas lasts a really long time before we need to take him down (and bear in mind that most of that ten years Cullen had to last was because DA2 took place over most of a decade,) or the Inquisitor has a surprisingly hard time getting lyrium in the mage capital of the world, that's not likely to be a problem.

 

 

All the blue energy flows into the eluvian, which is where that Well spirit is now, I would imagine. Solas' eyes glow as Abelas' can in the scenario where Morrigan stabs him. However, this could just be a trait that the evanuris or even the elvhen display in general. It might not be unique to Mythal, which, now that I think about it, did Flemeth display this glowing eye ability? I don't remember that being the case. As for using the eluvian, the Qunari seemed to have no trouble using them without Mythal's powers.

The thing is that the glow from Solas's eyes comes at the same time Flemeth collapses, still glowing with faint wisps of that same blue energy, and that Solas's eyes glow with that same energy. We're almost certainly meant to conclude he took something from her. And even if that's just a shred of Mythal, whatever Flemeth had was enough to control whoever drank from the Well; according to your interpretation, where Flemeth only had a piece of Mythal, not having all of her can't automatically mean that you can't control whoever drank from the Well. And while I could be thinking along entirely the wrong lines, and it could be something entirely separate from Mythal, what else is worth absorbing directly from Flemeth? (Or that Flemeth as the case may be?) It would presumably need to be something that you can't just get anywhere, because otherwise you'd think he would get it just about anywhere else given how close Solas and Mythal seem to be, and to the best of my knowledge the only thing like that we know Flemeth to have (apart from Urthemiel's soul, which Flemeth doesn't always have) is Mythal.

 

As for the Qunari using the eluvians, I'd assumed they were meeting in the Temple of Mythal due to it looking similar to the chamber with the Well of Sorrows. Now that I looked more closely at the background I'm not sure of that, though. Anyway, the eluvian overseeing the Well of Sorrows is said to be subject to the Well; my assumption was that if it was the same eluvian, you were supposed to need to either be Mythal or be bound to the Well (which is in turn bound to Mythal) to use it. If it is the same eluvian I think that reasoning holds water. If it's not we don't even know that it's connected to Mythal or to Flemeth and that Solas can't just use it anyway, since each eluvian has a different key and we don't know what this one's is.

 

 

The main idea of the geas can still be presented even if the consequences are negated in the future. The point is the possibility for grave consequences exists. But DA:I didn't handle the consequences properly even in the game. If the Inquisitor drinks, he can say to Vivienne that he's terrified about being controlled, and she will say that she will do everything in her power to help the Inquisitor break free from the binding (even promising Circle resources). But this is never touched on again. Trespasser even assumes you stayed as the head of the Inquisition even though your mind has been compromised. So it seems BioWare is no good at these alternate possibilities anyway. They have their story in mind, and they will pull you into it no matter how much you may want to deviate from it.

You're saying that they suck at creating consequences if doing so means that there are alternative stories, and citing this as proof? What I'm saying is that that's a little premature, because those consequences could very well be coming.

 

 

 

As for Flemeth, I think it's safe to assume that she has multiple clones of herself. The Shrine has a clone lying in wait. She put a clone into the amulet she gave Hawke. I'm sure that was a clone in the Fade if Kieran carried the old god soul. Her bodies are basically containers for souls, as well as proxies she can use to communicate. The one Solas wrecked at the eluvian was probably just another clone.

 

And Mythal seems to have only given Flemeth a part of her power. If the woman in the Well is Mythal, then it seems her main consciousness had been regenerating in the Well since her murder, and she only offered the original Flemeth part of her power in order to push world events toward her eventual release from the Well and into the eluvian network. Nabbing Urthemiel's soul was probably meant to be a bonus in restoring Mythal to her original power.

What I'm trying to argue is that if what Solas took was either Mythal's soul or Flemeth's piece of it, she might not still have the power to do that. Which might mean that her clones are dead. And if all he did was take some of Mythal's soul from Flemeth, who has some more of it, then there's still technically room for this scenario to happen. Though I suppose I was overstating the extent to which it would have to be fatal. (Especially if Flemeth can still act in this world or there is a Mythal-Prime who can overrule them as far as what the person who drank from the Well has to do.)



#11
Dai Grepher

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First let me post the video of Flemeth removing the compulsion, then I will reply to the above post.

 



#12
Dai Grepher

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The problem is that I think I could probably have said much of what you're arguing about Morrigan about Hawke or Loghain before Inquisition came out.

 

Or Alistair. Especially Alistair. By the end of Inquisition he could have died in one of three different ways, or become the de facto highest ranking Warden in the region of Orlais and Ferelden (which may or may not also mean he has to lead their withdrawal from that region,) or could be King (plus or minus a wife,) or could be an alcoholic Teagan retrieved from Kirkwall. Oh, and he might have a bastard. Clearly Bioware's okay with having a lot of variables tied to one character.

 

 

Have they implied that? I remember that according to game mechanics it takes a while to take a new form (probably in a misguided attempt to nerf a spec that didn't at all need it,) but we watch Morrigan change in the blink of an eye in cutscenes. And I don't think we see any decent evidence that she needs to wait for a cooldown to end before switching from one animal to human to another animal. Or even that she needs to return to human form before becoming another animal.

 

 

My point in saying that the Keep doesn't track fighting styles is that it means the game probably doesn't know. Either the question is never going to come up (most likely) or the player picks during the course of gameplay (which there's no reason to do with a situation that could easily be handled by a button press in the Keep; we designed Hawke's face in Inquisition because that's not simply a matter of picking an option from a list.) And the two possibilities for why it doesn't matter are either that the Inquisitor never fights again (which I'm not arguing is impossible) or that they all use a generic one-handed style depending on their class (which I'm trying to say isn't impossible.)

 

As for the former Inquisitor having trouble adapting, that's not entirely wrong, but since the Inquisitor can use either dual daggers or a S&S combo regardless of whether they're specced well for them (assuming they're not a mage,) and the game probably doesn't know whether the former Inquisitor was specced for them, the game might just be assuming the Inquisitor knows how to use a one-handed weapon appropriate for their class. (Assuming, again, that the Inquisitor is not a mage, which might make losing a hand less of an obstacle. I think I recall that it was said Sketch would not be able to fight if he lost both his hands, but I don't know that we know that to be true and at any rate the Inquisitor has a hand.)

 

 

My point is that with the lyrium, Cullen manages to go slightly more than ten years before his tolerance gets too high to avoid withdrawal. And that's assuming he was addicted less than a year before Origins starts, which I don't know we can be sure of. Which means that unless either Solas lasts a really long time before we need to take him down (and bear in mind that most of that ten years Cullen had to last was because DA2 took place over most of a decade,) or the Inquisitor has a surprisingly hard time getting lyrium in the mage capital of the world, that's not likely to be a problem.

 

 

The thing is that the glow from Solas's eyes comes at the same time Flemeth collapses, still glowing with faint wisps of that same blue energy, and that Solas's eyes glow with that same energy. We're almost certainly meant to conclude he took something from her. And even if that's just a shred of Mythal, whatever Flemeth had was enough to control whoever drank from the Well; according to your interpretation, where Flemeth only had a piece of Mythal, not having all of her can't automatically mean that you can't control whoever drank from the Well. And while I could be thinking along entirely the wrong lines, and it could be something entirely separate from Mythal, what else is worth absorbing directly from Flemeth? (Or that Flemeth as the case may be?) It would presumably need to be something that you can't just get anywhere, because otherwise you'd think he would get it just about anywhere else given how close Solas and Mythal seem to be, and to the best of my knowledge the only thing like that we know Flemeth to have (apart from Urthemiel's soul, which Flemeth doesn't always have) is Mythal.

 

As for the Qunari using the eluvians, I'd assumed they were meeting in the Temple of Mythal due to it looking similar to the chamber with the Well of Sorrows. Now that I looked more closely at the background I'm not sure of that, though. Anyway, the eluvian overseeing the Well of Sorrows is said to be subject to the Well; my assumption was that if it was the same eluvian, you were supposed to need to either be Mythal or be bound to the Well (which is in turn bound to Mythal) to use it. If it is the same eluvian I think that reasoning holds water. If it's not we don't even know that it's connected to Mythal or to Flemeth and that Solas can't just use it anyway, since each eluvian has a different key and we don't know what this one's is.

 

 

You're saying that they suck at creating consequences if doing so means that there are alternative stories, and citing this as proof? What I'm saying is that that's a little premature, because those consequences could very well be coming.

 

 

What I'm trying to argue is that if what Solas took was either Mythal's soul or Flemeth's piece of it, she might not still have the power to do that. Which might mean that her clones are dead. And if all he did was take some of Mythal's soul from Flemeth, who has some more of it, then there's still technically room for this scenario to happen. Though I suppose I was overstating the extent to which it would have to be fatal. (Especially if Flemeth can still act in this world or there is a Mythal-Prime who can overrule them as far as what the person who drank from the Well has to do.)

 

Hawke might not be dead actually, but even so, there were replacements for Hawke. Stroud/Alistair/Loghain will go to Weisshaupt. Varric will contact anyone connected with Hawke, and take over control of Kirkwall if Hawke was Viscount. Other than that, Hawke was on the run, so she didn't have much of a role. Morrigan has knowledge that connects her to the main storylines. The blight, the old gods, the elvhen, the eluvians, the crossroads, ancient magic, Flemeth, Kieran, the Hero, Orlais, etc. As for Loghain, I'm not sure what connection he has to the story by the end of Origins. He's a regicide and a traitor. At best he lives as a Grey Warden.

 

Same case with Alistair. He is easily replaced in all his roles. Stroud/Loghain/Hawke for Inquisition. Anora for Origins and beyond. Drunken Alistair gets no mention at all (much to my disappointment). Also notice that by the time Inquisition takes place, Alistair's importance is pretty much spent? His presumed death in the Fade means nothing except a short line from a possibly alive Fiona, and that's it. Well, and a female romance will be in for some future heartache. But who could replace Morrigan? Who could fill her roles if she died? Think of Morrigan like Leliana. You can't kill her off in Origins. Her role in the main story is too important and can't be filled by anyone else. BioWare is okay with variables that cover multiple characters (replacements), because in that case it's worth it. Alistair's bastard is also Loghain's bastard is also the M!Warden's bastard. It's a simple matter of switched dialogue and one of two characters visiting them in the garden (and even this was bugged).

 

Well my point was that Origins implied it. You can't go from one form to another. You have to revert back to the original form first. This is true even of the Hero's obtained forms in the Broken Circle quest. Morrigan's bird transformation may have been a different case since it is so much simpler, and non-combative. Also, she may have been preparing the spell during the conversation. Then turning back to human would just be a matter of ending the spell. But like I wrote, an exception could be made. Still, it might just end up being like the Imshael fight.

 

Right, the question probably won't come up. In which case people will be upset that their 2H warrior is now S&S and somehow proficient at it. A generic one-handed style isn't impossible, but it is boring. Any time you limit choice your make the game less interesting automatically. Or are you saying the 2H warrior would get a new style that mimics 2H but with one hand? If so, then that might work.

 

Dual daggers or S&S? Dual daggers is rogue class. Not sure what you mean, but I think I get your overall point. The game allows for the 2H warrior to develop both 2H and S&S. Plus the amulet that refunds skill points. So I suppose I can agree with this. Still, this might prove annoying as far as how some players wanted to customize their characters.

 

Whatever the case is with Cullen, I agree that the (x)Inquiz is in no danger of the Templar version of The Calling, provided this takes place within 12 years or so. And you're right that getting lyrium shouldn't be difficult for the (x)Inquiz, but depending on how the game plays out, Solas might take control of the (x)Inquiz at a time when he or she is low on lyrium and can't get more. Depends how BioWare would set up the scenario. More than likely, BioWare would just overlook this anyway. So I guess this point is ultimately moot. Still, I think BioWare might prefer to take this the other way and have the (x)Inquiz controlled by Mythal or even Morrigan if Flemeth really did pass her powers on to her.

 

A few things here. First, I saw a video where Flemeth's eyes glowed like Solas' in Trespasser. Though this doesn't mean Solas took that ability from Flemeth. Next, you say a part of Mythal was all that was needed to control the one under the geas. Yes, but that was Flemeth, who was a willing servant of Mythal. Would that part of Mythal cooperate with Solas if he tried to invoke the geas? I believe only if their goals are the same. I don't think Solas took anything from her. He did his green alien soul thing to Flemeth which caused her to zonk out and perish in that form, thus releasing the energy, which appears to go into the eluvian. So that tells me that Solas had already regained some of his own natural power. His eyes glowing is just his own power starting to emerge again. However, if Solas took anything from Flemeth, I would say he just fed off of her energy. Compare to nosferatu, who Solas kind of looks like ironically. But I don't think he took anything from her. He was only there to kill that Flemeth and probably use the eluvian she opened.

 

Well then maybe Solas hid while Flemeth opened that eluvian, which means he learned what the key was before dispatching that Flemeth. And if the Qunari can figure out how to open some eluvians, ignorant as they are in magic, then I'm sure Solas can figure it out.

 

The consequences could be coming, but seeing as how the whole thing was dismissed in DA:I itself (aside from Flemeth using it to prevent attacks against her), I would say the consequences will be minimal, especially when divided up among Morrigan and a variant character like the (x)Inquiz. The (x)Inquiz could be weak and powerless if the Inquisition was disbanded. So Solas has control over a powerless one armed dwarven woman. So what? Swap out Solas for Mythal, or Flemeth, or Morrigan. So what if they control such a character? The only consequence here is that the players will probably have to watch their old ex-Inquisitor die at the hands of the new protag. Now, if the Inquisitor had kept the anchor... THAT could have led to some huge consequences. I'm just saying that it seems to me that BioWare doesn't care about the compulsion seeing as how they care so little about it for the last part of the game. I think the best thing to hope for here, is a story where the new protag has to figure out how to break Mythal's compulsion and save whoever is affected by it, the (x)Inquiz or Morrigan.

 

Correct. If there is a main part of Mythal, she can probably override anything her Flemeths do. Also, assuming Solas even took anything from Flemeth in the first place, it's possible that Flemeth's consciousness simply awoke in a different clone somewhere else. Like how the Warden can slay the highly interactive Flemeth clone in the Wilds, yet she can be summoned by Merril on Sundermount.


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#13
Illegitimus

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Not likely except in fanfiction.  But it did just occur to me that if the Inquisitor hadn't interfered, Corypheus would have drunk from the well and put himself under Mythal's control.  That's an interesting thought.  No wonder Solas was pissed.  



#14
Dai Grepher

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No, Corypheus was planning to use either Calpernia or Samson to drink from the Well.

 

But I did think of something a few hours ago.

 

For those who made Erastinies tranquil and got the scroll from him detailing Corypheus' binding ritual (intended for Calpernia after she drank), shouldn't we be able to use this information to bind the one who is now bound to Mythal or whoever? That way the person can't be used against Thedas, and they might be used to extract information from the voices of the Well in order to combat Solas.



#15
Aren

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I'm not sure how any of this means Bioware can't kill her if something happens that would logically cause her death. Fiona knew most of the other movers and shakers too, and she dies if your choices force you to kill her. Nor do I see how anything regarding decisions about a world they own can be "above their pay grade."

 

 

Killing Morrigan?That will not happen even if it make sense,since there were already several occasion such as the red lyrium dragon battle
 (the Mythal guardian die during the terrible fall from the sky, while Morrigan survive) or the Wh attack that was plain silly for someone like the HoF to make.
So i would say that all those plot shield for her must have a meaning,if they intend to reuse the character.

 

No, Corypheus was planning to use either Calpernia or Samson to drink from the Well.

 

 

Of course he may be a lunatic,but he is not stupid like Morrigan,he is an expert mage and he know the meaning of precautions.



#16
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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Killing Morrigan?That will not happen even if it make sense,since there were already several occasion such as the red lyrium dragon battle
 (the Mythal guardian die during the terrible fall from the sky, while Morrigan survive) or the Wh attack that was plain silly for someone like the HoF to make.
So i would say that all those plot shield for her must have a meaning,if they intend to reuse the character.

 

Hey, Plot Armor is at the whim of the developers. It lasts as long as they say it does. They could fairly easily decide it runs out if you do this. Or they could decide that this ends nonlethally, the same way Morrigan's fall from a ridiculous distance does.

 

 

 

Of course he may be a lunatic,but he is not stupid like Morrigan,he is an expert mage and he know the meaning of precautions.

Pretty much. Continuing with this, the binding he had planned for Calpernia, terrible as it might be, might well be enough to handle the "bound to the will of Mythal" bit.


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