Of course there are plenty of lighthearted and often silly moments and many of the characters had quite "out there" personalities to say the least but I would not say it was the overall tone.
You're missing my point. The story can be all serious, but we can still light & silly moments. It doesn't detract from anything. I was presenting the BG games as an example of a game where we have both dark/serious & light/silly.
It does not have to be an extreme but I feel Bioware stories are hard to take serious despite the serious tone, I would just like to see them attempt something with a less serious overall tone, something where they don't take things too serious, like putting Garrus in a Trenchcoat and Fedora and having him start up his own private investigator buisness with all the cliches.
Bioware's trying too hard to be edgemasters.
In a fairy-tale, our hero has to walk through the dark forest, kill the monsters, evade the giant spiders -- but the important thing, without which the story could never be written, is that he emerges from the other side, into the light.
Terry Pratchett
Assuming the story is enjoyable, I'll take dark and edgy every time. I've enjoyed my share of Marvel movies, but they're starting to feel stale. Citadel trended too much in that direction for my tastes.
You're missing my point. The story can be all serious, but we can still light & silly moments. It doesn't detract from anything. I was presenting the BG games as an example of a game where we have both dark/serious & light/silly.
I never said a serious story can't have light and silly moments or that a less serious story can't have it's darker moments, I am just saying it would be nice to see Bioware attempt something with a less serious overall tone, something from out of left field that doesn't take itself too serious.
Bioware's trying too hard to be edgemasters.
In a fairy-tale, our hero has to walk through the dark forest, kill the monsters, evade the giant spiders -- but the important thing, without which the story could never be written, is that he emerges from the other side, into the light.
Terry Pratchett
I hardly think Terry Prachett is a good example in this discussion. His whole schtick was making the "SUPER SERIOUS, HIGH FANTASY" stories into a joke.
I never said a serious story can't have light and silly moments or that a less serious story can't have it's darker moments, I am just saying it would be nice to see Bioware attempt something with a less serious overall tone, something from out of left field that doesn't take itself too serious.
But why? I don't think it would work at all. Look at Borderlands as a series. That whole series is just...ewwww. It tries so hard to be silly that you can't even have "heavy" themes fit into it.
Assuming the story is enjoyable, I'll take dark and edgy every time. I've enjoyed my share of Marvel movies, but they're starting to feel stale. Citadel trended too much in that direction for my tastes.
That's the thing.. assuming the story is enjoyable.
Even the premise of these games are childish Campbellian schlock. It's the End of the world, a dark lord wants to a wield an ancient power (or the dark lord IS an ancient power), hero is the chosen one meant to thwart it and save all life. Fill in the blanks. It's like playing Mad Libs.
Dark works better more intimately. Like a down to earth sword/sorc tale (Conan) or sometimes in sci-fi, just when projects go awry (Aliens) without much to do with the whole universe. Or in horror.
Also, somewhat tangentially. I wonder how much of the grimdark crowd wants tackling of weighty topics and how much they want a voyeuristic itch scratched. When you read the Codex what happens to the red templars is horrifying, what happens to broodmothers is horrifying, what happened to Leliana in the AU is horrifying, what happened in that Chateau in the green place was horrifying etc. It's not that these aspects are absent or even glossed over it's just that we don't get to see the flesh being peeled from Leliana's face like we see that lady's eyes getting popped out in TW2. It doesn't have that ~gasp!~ factor.
Honestly, I'm half convinced that the 2edgy4me crowd is illiterate.
Actually, I would hesitate to even call them edgelords, they just want shock value.
But why? I don't think it would work at all. Look at Borderlands as a series. That whole series is just...ewwww. It tries so hard to be silly that you can't even have "heavy" themes fit into it.
What is wrong with Borderlands, exactly?
What is wrong with Borderlands, exactly?
Nothing other than the pathetic guy who writes them.
But that's beside the point. Maybe.
That's the thing.. assuming the story is enjoyable.
Even the premise of these games are childish Campbellian schlock. It's the End of the world, a dark lord wants to a wield an ancient power (or the dark lord IS an ancient power), hero is the chosen one meant to thwart it and save all life. Fill in the blanks. It's like playing Mad Libs.
Dark works better more intimately. Like a down to earth sword/sorc tale (Conan) or sometimes in sci-fi, just when projects go awry (Aliens) without much to do with the whole universe. Or in horror.
Hmm, good point. I didn't think that phrasing 100% through. I guess it's best to say is that I've found more stories I enjoy which happen to trend towards dark and edgy: Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Dark Souls, Watchmen etc. And even there, all these stories/experiences have found ways to inject some amount of humor into the situation.
What is wrong with Borderlands, exactly?
Read what I said again, specifically this part:
It tries so hard to be silly that you can't even have "heavy" themes fit into it.
Hmm, good point. I didn't think that phrasing 100% through. I guess it's best to say is that I've found more stories I enjoy which happen to trend towards dark and edgy: Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Dark Souls, Watchmen etc. And even there, all these stories/experiences have found ways to inject some amount of humor into the situation.
True.. I don't have anything bad to say there.
Although I would say the Comedian is actually scary and disturbing. It doesn't help my family was tied to the Viet war. Sigh... lol
Nothing other than the pathetic guy who writes them.
But that's beside the point. Maybe.
Well yes, Anthony Burch is the King of Cuck, but at least he doesn't try TOO hard to hamfist his social morals into the game.
Read what I said again, specifically this part:
Sure you can. Have you played Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep for Borderlands 2? The ending to that is all about Tina coming to terms with Roland's death and learning to accept it instead of continuing to live in denial. And she's a 13 year old girl who's already lost both of her parents to Handsome Jack's slag experiments, before kidnapping and torturing the bandit who sold her family to Jack and then finally killing him via electrocution.
Borderlands has never been "light", it's always had some rather dark and heavy themes dating all the way back to the first game. Hell, the running theme for the entire series is that good and evil don't exist, that EVERYBODY is some sort of amoral bastard in their own way. The only characters in the entire franchise who can be called "good" are Roland and Claptrap. Everyone else is either a mercenary with no moral or ethical center who will happily kill people for money, an insane bandit, or an outright mass-murdering monster, who all happen to crack jokes.
The difference between Borderlands and, say, Warhammer, is that Borderlands takes the darkness and grimness and plays it for laughs, as opposed to Warhammer playing it dead-serious. There's nothing wrong with this. There's even plenty of moments where the comedy is gone and s**t does actually get serious. The aforementioned ending to Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep, the entire encounter with Angel in Borderlands 2, pretty much everything having to do with Felicity in the Pre-Sequel, and Jack's going off the deep end in the Pre-Sequel immediately come to mind.
Sure you can. Have you played Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep for Borderlands 2? The ending to that is all about Tina coming to terms with Roland's death and learning to accept it instead of continuing to live in denial.
And guess what? It feels really forced. It only "works", because they make it work. They shoehorned that idea into the game, in an effort to make things more relateable.
But why? I don't think it would work at all. Look at Borderlands as a series. That whole series is just...ewwww. It tries so hard to be silly that you can't even have "heavy" themes fit into it.
It is really more a lack of faith in Bioware to be able to pull off Dark and Serious, I find the Dragon Age series especially hard to take serious despite their hardest attempts to be dark and edgy and feel they would be far more suited to something that does not take itself to serious.
In a way I feel they are a lot like Telltale, giving them Game of Thrones was a mistake as they really weren't suited for it while Tales of the Borderlands was at least somewhat enjoyable as light entertainment as it wasn't meant to be taken too serious.
I want them to juggle the dark and lightheartedness, like they usually do.
It is really more a lack of faith in Bioware to be able to pull off Dark and Serious, I find the Dragon Age series especially hard to take serious despite their hardest attempts to be dark and edgy and feel they would be far more suited to something that does not take itself to serious.
In a way I feel they are a lot like Telltale, giving them Game of Thrones was a mistake as they really weren't suited for it while Tales of the Borderlands was at least somewhat enjoyable as it wasn't meant to be taken to serious.
DA has it's moments though. I thought Leandra's death was sad.
Bartand's? Not so much. It's hilarious actually.
It is really more a lack of faith in Bioware to be able to pull off Dark and Serious, I find the Dragon Age series especially hard to take serious despite their hardest attempts to be dark and edgy and feel they would be far more suited to something that does not take itself to serious.
Well, that's on you, not BioWare. I happen to find it works just as well as The Elder Scrolls series. The basic theme is the same. "Hero saves world from mad/evil person". I think Dark and Serious works just fine for the DA series. What I don't get is why you insist on this strange either/or thing. You can't have a relateable world and have either/or. Just like people aren't one dimensional, neither should story-based games be one dimensional. If folks want one dimensional, they can go play a hack 'n' slash like Diablo -- which, yes, is fun -- but no one considers Diablo to be a well-told RPG. You have to have elements of both dark/serious and light/silly.
And guess what? It feels really forced. It only "works", because they make it work. They shoehorned that idea into the game, in an effort to make things more relateable.
"It only "works", because they make it work." That is the writer's job you know: fleshing out ideas within premises.
I think it works wonderfully. Assault on Dragon Keep used Borderlands' well established silly and "random" humor to tell a story about a child using that brand of humor as a defense mechanism. Honestly, Borderlands is the perfect universe for that kind of story.
I don't want it to be either. "Dark and edgy" is not suited to this franchise and "light and goofy" is not BioWare's forte. I know most people are enamored with the Citadel DLC, but that's because most people are stupid enough to laugh at BioWare's horrendous "comedic" writing.
DA has it's moments though. I thought Leandra's death was sad.
Can't say I was really a huge fan of Leandra, was kind of surprised they had the character hacked up and turned into frankenmom as that is a pretty gruesome way to have a character who the player is ultimately supposed to feel sympathetic towards, however it had no impact for me as the writers did not do a good enough job at making me care about or even like the character for me to feel anything about her death.
Don't you mean Memelands?What is wrong with Borderlands, exactly?
And guess what? It feels really forced. It only "works", because they make it work.
This is quite literally the whole purpose of the writing staff. It's their entire job.
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