204 réponses à ce sujet

[SnakeCode]

 

Why is he sithspreading and holding his lightsaber in a suggestive fashion? I'm triggered.

[Seraphim24]

Edgy is in many ways the better ideal, but it's beyond them to do it for the most part.

 

Everytime there is a character in like in SWTOR Thana Vesh who is all gusto and energy, it always ends up feeling kind of limited at the same time, like (spoilers) she gives the final choices to you and then just like disappears basically. It's still cool that she's there, but it feels like they're hoping to move onto something else quickly and that the concept would break if extended beyond it's world.

 

Plus, there's all those "Kill all the civilians!" choice that keeps popping up like oy... it's this constant equating of edgy with wanton violence for some reason.

 

I'd prefer Tallik gushing about Archaelogical finds and characters talking about how they could find tracks even if they were "six days old and covered in jam." That's the kind of cute and funny style of Bioware character I enjoy.

 

At best, they kind of present the edgy stuff as kind of a mix of different stances, like the Black Talon instance where it's like he's already sort of dying, or the choice is between executing a POW or just putting him in a kind of cell for a long time. It's not really wholly edgy or goofy but they don't over-tax or over-estimate their abilities.

 

They should start with Tallik or whatever and build up to something momentous rather than the other way around. I don't care how ecstatic fans are about the likes of Renegade Shepard or whatever, they're all Talliks and Jedi Knights at heart.

 

The reason DA:I wasn't as successful as it could have been was because I've never seen them try harder to be something they were not.

 

Personally, I also tend to treat the DA:O rescue/Citadel endless banterism as neither edgy or goofy actually, it's not so much charming and silly as just extremely knowing, which is probably worse than both.

 

The appeal of Tallik is he like actually does take pleasure in his ability to identify random dinsoaur tracks (or whatever those animals were), a kind of enthusiasm occasionally frowned upon or otherwise marginalized in different socieities around the globe, I think because the idea that you might do something beneficial like that for pleasure is just too spirited, you have to charge for that kind of thing.

 

And when you finally do get to those more taut and dramatic moments, it's the Talliks that invariably shine, not the Jacks, who tend to crumble.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

I want the tone to be something along the lines of The Guardians of the Galaxy a sense of fun and seriousness. 

[Kalas Magnus]

Why is he sithspreading and holding his lightsaber in a suggestive fashion? I'm triggered.

did you get ptsd?

[SnakeCode]

did you get ptsd?

 

I sure did. Link to my patreon is in my bio.

[Lebanese Dude]

Yeah the Inquisitor usually doesn't hang out with them. Exactly. So why did the scene feel like they were all best buddies and had been hanging out off screen the whole time? It was undeserved and ignored the pre-existing relationships.

 

I don't get why you're snide when someone interprets a scene differently from you. Your subjective opinion is not truth.

 

 

It's not subjective when it's explicit. 

 

You think these scenes have subjective interpretation when they are really just exactly what they they are.

 

This particular scene was clearly about the Inquisitor placing the world's troubles on their shoulders and Varric trying to loosen them up a little. The entire final 30 seconds of the clip is devoted to Varric telling the Inquisitor he should chill and do this more often. The inquisitor is more than capable of dismissing him. You're more than capable of being very passive throughout the entire scene and just sitting there. The inquisitor is more than capable of not even going to the event from the get go. Why would you agree to doing it otherwise? 

 

 

Side note: if you think you can't play a game of cards and laugh at someone's jokes, even if you dislike one or two at the table, then you have a very narrow view of what it means to interact with people in social events.

 

--------------

 

The same logic can be applied to most of Mass Effect's criticized scenes, especially those that can place logical "canon" on your character to place some emotional connection.

 

No **** the person who is tasked with saving the entire known universe from extinction is going to have a few dreams triggered by stress and trauma from all that's happened in the last few years.

 

"But muh Shepard is stronger than that". Lol k. 

[vbibbi]

Are you directing this to me or to anyone who has ever criticized a Bioware game? When did I criticize ME? I said I enjoyed Citadel.

And I didn't say it wasn't a social event, I said that up until now I felt like coworkers with the companions instead of a group of friends like in DA2. The scene felt like it would be more at home in that game. This felt like the devs were trying to recapture come of the friend dynamics of the previous game and force it onto the Inquisition. And I don't think it felt organic.

you seem to be taking criticism of this game very personally.

[Lebanese Dude]

Are you directing this to me or to anyone who has ever criticized a Bioware game? When did I criticize ME? I said I enjoyed Citadel.

And I didn't say it wasn't a social event, I said that up until now I felt like coworkers with the companions instead of a group of friends like in DA2. The scene felt like it would be more at home in that game. This felt like the devs were trying to recapture come of the friend dynamics of the previous game and force it onto the Inquisition. And I don't think it felt organic.

you seem to be taking criticism of this game very personally.

It was more general.  I apologize I should have included proper spacing.

 

Well I personally believe that even the friend dynamics of the first game can be called inorganic. In fact any game can make friendships feel inorganic since it is not us that actually experience the friendships.

 

It's up to the player to build those relationships, not just the game. 

 

In DAI your companions are actually your subordinates, much like in Mass Effect, unlike in previous Dragon Age games. Varric was trying to make you feel closer to your companions. So was Iron Bull in fact, except it was more towards his Chargers. I fail to see how that is inorganic in itself. The entire point was that you weren't being as close as you should be, or at least as close as Varric thinks you should be.

 

That being said, I'd say DAI is closer to ME2 in terms of how the relationships are built. Perhaps that's something that you dislike?

[Giantdeathrobot]

Edgy is usually the word used to describe what a teenager thinks is mature and deep.

I generally prefer my RPG stories serious but splashed with character humor to break it up, so dark and goofy works for me.

 

I like that too. I wouldn't want the game to be Borderlands-esque goofy because at some point it feels too self-referential and silly. 

 

But a serious story definitely doesn't mean it should be devoid of humor. Especially when we're talking about a game with hours upon hours of cutscenes and character interaction, everyone being moody all the time would get old fast.

 

I actually think ME3 managed a good balance, apart from the **** ending and the overly cheery Citadel. Overall the game was dark, with a galaxy-wide genocidal war on the background that you saw happen. You could also be a complete scumbag. But there were light moments, such as the chats with Garrus or passed out Ashley. My favorite was drunk Tali, both because it was funny and because it fit the story well as she drinks for a specific reason.

 

I don't think that Mass Effect needs to change a lot, tonally.

[Blarg]

I'm always down for more sass, sarcasm, and banter.

[Lebanese Dude]

I like that too. I wouldn't want the game to be Borderlands-esque goofy because at some point it feels too self-referential and silly. 

 

But a serious story definitely doesn't mean it should be devoid of humor. Especially when we're talking about a game with hours upon hours of cutscenes and character interaction, everyone being moody all the time would get old fast.

 

I actually think ME3 managed a good balance, apart from the **** ending and the overly cheery Citadel. Overall the game was dark, with a galaxy-wide genocidal war on the background that you saw happen. You could also be a complete scumbag. But there were light moments, such as the chats with Garrus or passed out Ashley. My favorite was drunk Tali, both because it was funny and because it fit the story well as she drinks for a specific reason.

 

I don't think that Mass Effect needs to change a lot, tonally.

 

I don't agree with what you said about the ending, but I agree with the rest of the post.

 

I think Citadel had an intentionally light mood though.

[vbibbi]

It was more general.  I apologize I should have included proper spacing.
 
Well I personally believe that even the friend dynamics of the first game can be called inorganic. In fact any game can make friendships feel inorganic since it is not us that actually experience the friendships.
 
It's up to the player to build those relationships, not just the game. 
 
In DAI your companions are actually your subordinates, much like in Mass Effect, unlike in previous Dragon Age games. Varric was trying to make you feel closer to your companions. So was Iron Bull in fact, except it was more towards his Chargers. I fail to see how that is inorganic in itself. The entire point was that you weren't being as close as you should be, or at least as close as Varric thinks you should be.
 
That being said, I'd say DAI is closer to ME2 in terms of how the relationships are built. Perhaps that's something that you dislike?

True enough, I do prefer the DA2 friendship style which is fairly unique amongst RPGs since it's not following a mission to Save the World, it's more of a slice of life story. I agree that DAI and ME2 have similar companion dynamics. I only felt connected to Garrus and Tali friend-wise since I'd already known them from the first game, and the LI of he play through. Everyone else was there for the mission and not for friendship.

You're right that it's up to the player to make the full move toward friendship with the companions. And DAO companions could be seen as allies we're unable to turn away except for Alistair. As the Inquisitor we are leading our forces, including the Inner Circle, and I'm reminded of that power dynamic whenever Bull calls me boss, Varric gripes that he's only here because Cassandra kidnapped him, or Vivienne and Sera reveal that they're using the Inquisition to further their own agendas. And then there's Solas...

[Lebanese Dude]

And then there's Solas...

 

I was drawn to Solas. I don't know why. It's like I felt I wanted his respect. 

[straykat]

I don't see the resemblance. ME2's companions are supposed to some of the best of the best, willfully testing their mettle in the worst kind of mission. That's the suicide mission speech. Best Geth platform, best assassin, best human biotic, best bounty hunter, Pure Krogan, etc.. Only a handful aren't like that (like Jacob). I don't even know why Bull becomes a core member (compared to say, a Qunari character from multiplayer). Nor does he represent anything typical about Qunari either.. like Sten or Arishok. He's just some joke character who doesn't even understand himself. Varric admits Bianca makes him better. The rest are there for various political reasons, but not necessarily because they're the best. I recruit them for that reason. Sera cares about average people, Dorian presents a better face for Tevinter, etc..

[vbibbi]

I was drawn to Solas. I don't know why. It's like I felt I wanted his respect.

I really enjoyed that he gave approval just for us being inquisitive and interested in learning. And it was a nice scene where he calls us his friend, and the Haven dream sequence. I could tell that he wasn't telling me everything though, as he only provided stories of what he saw in the Fade, never tried to help us learn about the Anchor or the Breach. It was like, dude if you're the Fade expert why aren't you doing research and just painting the walls?

[Lebanese Dude]

I really enjoyed that he gave approval just for us being inquisitive and interested in learning. And it was a nice scene where he calls us his friend, and the Haven dream sequence. I could tell that he wasn't telling me everything though, as he only provided stories of what he saw in the Fade, never tried to help us learn about the Anchor or the Breach. It was like, dude if you're the Fade expert why aren't you doing research and just painting the walls?

 

Oh I knew he was up to something. His mystery made him all the more appealing.

[straykat]

I disliked him on instinct, just for early conversations about spirits. I wasn't surprised how that turned out. Not that I didn't find him interesting though.

[Lebanese Dude]

I disliked him on instinct, just for early conversations about spirits. I wasn't surprised how that turned out. Not that I didn't find him interesting though.

 

Anti-spirit I see? 

 

Oh sorry... anti-DEMONS!

[GDICanuck]

A little from Column A and a little from Column B.

No reason why one of my crew can't accidently let it slip that he peruses Asari extranet fetish sites while we're on our dangerous mission to save the galaxy.

[Dominus]

It's in BioWare's nature to either go full goofy, or a mix of both. Those looking for fully dark tone in modern titles are better off with FromSoftware's Souls/BB or maybe Obsidian's stuff - Pillars of Eternity leans somewhat toward macabre.

Short Answer: I'd love a dark BioWare game, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[Lebanese Dude]

Short Answer: I'd love a dark BioWare game, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

Thedas is a vibrant world. DAI is as close to dark as it'll ever get. 

[straykat]

Anti-spirit I see? 

 

Oh sorry... anti-DEMONS!

 

More like... pro-world.. pro-5 senses.

 

Trailer Inquisitor sums up my thinking well: "All of this happened because of fanatics and arguments about the next world. It's time we start believing in this one."

 

I don't believe anyone/anything else belongs in it... and I play characters who fight against whoever screws it up.

[Lebanese Dude]

More like... pro-world.. pro-5 senses.

 

Trailer Inquisitor sums up my thinking well: "All of this happened because of fanatics and arguments about the next world. It's time we start believing in this one."

 

I don't believe anyone/anything else belongs in it... and I play characters who fight against whoever screws it up.

Haha fair enough.

[theflyingzamboni]

I actually think ME3 managed a good balance, apart from the **** ending and the overly cheery Citadel. Overall the game was dark, with a galaxy-wide genocidal war on the background that you saw happen. You could also be a complete scumbag. But there were light moments, such as the chats with Garrus or passed out Ashley. My favorite was drunk Tali, both because it was funny and because it fit the story well as she drinks for a specific reason.

 

I don't think that Mass Effect needs to change a lot, tonally.

I love Citadel and think its tone was great for what it is: a standalone send-off adventure. But I would definitely not want an entire game with that tone. I agree that the overall tone they've taken with the main games in the series is fine. No need to reinvent that wheel in Mass Effect.

[Larry-3]

How about dark, light, and edgy.