101 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

We've yet to encounter a true Type 3 Civilization. 

 

From a storytelling perspective that is probably a good thing, as they'd be ridiculously overpowered. Any civilization capable of harnessing the energy output of an entire galaxy, potentially even black holes and quasars, would be so far in advance of the Milky Way civilization technologically that humans wouldn't stand a chance if they were hostile. 

 

Well you could always just drive a dreadnought into their homeworld, honestly why do you have to fight fair? Especially against people who outclass you.

[Iakus]

Still, it´ll be quite funny if we´ll arrive to Andromeda and find that there is no pattern of inevitable and eternal conflict betwen the organics and synthetics...

Yeah, that entire stupid ending for nothing.  HIlarious  

 

 

I just hope that explanation isn't utterly stupid, and I hope they dont spend a significant portion of the plot on organic - synthetic conflict again.

Do not trust in hope.  It has forsaken this place.

[BioWareM0d13]

Well you could always just drive a dreadnought into their homeworld, honestly why do you have to fight fair? Especially against people who outclass you.

 

A Class 3 Civilization wouldn't just be living on their homeworld. They'd be harnessing the energy output of an entire galaxy, so they'd probably have hundreds or thousands of colonies and space stations. Given how long it may take to reach the level of a Class 3 it may be that their homeworld isn't even habitable any more, and they long ago abandoned it as its climate changed, its star died, or after completely exhausting it of resources. Their homeworld, if it still exists, would only account for a small percentage of their total population and its destruction would only be a minor setback. A species that reaches Class 3 would count the entire galaxy as its habitat, rather than a single planet.

 

It would be impossible to destroy a Class 3 civilization. At that point their species has become effectively immortal and no longer runs the risk of extinction, or at least the closest thing to it. (the eventual Heat Death of the universe may still claim them)

 

Also a species that is potentially harnessing the power of black holes would probably have no problem swatting aside an errant dreadnought or space rock.

[Master Warder Z_]

It would be impossible to destroy a Class 3 civilization.

 

Let me introduce you to the Yuuzhan Vong who damn near came close to doing exactly that despite walking in a galaxy where they are technically outmatched, outnumbered a million to one, have a tenth the resources, less then thirtieth the military potential and they don't have force users. And they carved a swath of destruction across both the Empire and Republic, it took both uniting, several years of war, destroying their capital, killing their supreme overlord and the destruction of their sole means of harvesting planets for that war to cease.

 

So believe me friend, class two can beat or come extremely close to beating class three. Although I have debated with folks who argued Vong are tier three like the Star Wars galaxy but I am like...erm, they don't even have hyperdrives like their opponents, or blasters or laser weapons, their using kinetics and thermal energy. Their tech is organic based primarily and their method of transit is inferior to what SW was using 25,000 years before their arrival.

 

Also you know what I mean, or perhaps I should have been specific, Homeworld to me is either largest population of said civilization, their capital, or home world, home world to me is basically-most important planet, and best target to aim for if you want to hurt them.

[BioWareM0d13]

The Star Wars civilization is an example of a Class 3 actually. They also have magic/god (The Force) on their side.

[Master Warder Z_]

The Star Wars civilization is an example of a Class 3 actually. They also have magic/god (The Force) on their side.

 

I know, I was comparing their tech to the Vong, who invaded in the EU.

 

And despite the tech differences, nearly conquerored their galaxy. They were Extra Galactic Invaders introduced late into the EU during the days of the New Republic, and in my eye one of the better enemies that the EU cobbled together.

[Iakus]

I know, I was comparing their tech to the Vong, who invaded in the EU.

 

And despite the tech differences, nearly conquerored their galaxy. They were Extra Galactic Invaders introduced late into the EU during the days of the New Republic, and in my eye one of the better enemies that the EU cobbled together.

The Vong were at least the equals of the rest of the EU technology wise.  Perhaps even their superiors in a lot of ways.

 

I mean, tehy used freaking mini-singularities as shields for their ships!  could manipulate gravity to the point where they could pull moons from their orbits, and their colony ships were the sizes of planets (they're even called "worldships".  Plus they had weapons and armor that could deflect lightsabers and were immune to the Force.  

[Master Warder Z_]

The Vong were at least the equals of the rest of the EU technology wise.  Perhaps even their superiors in a lot of ways.

 

I mean, tehy used freaking mini-singularities as shields for their ships!  could manipulate gravity to the point where they could pull moons from their orbits, and their colony ships were the sizes of planets (they're even called "worldships".  Plus they had weapons and armor that could deflect lightsabers and were immune to the Force.  

 

Gravity is something that is already well documented as tech that exists in the time period and even before it, Gravity Mines are a thing friend, oh and those Introdiction fields? They prevent you from jumping due to gravity displacement, it freaks your computers out because it thinks your flying through a solid mass like a star. Also those gravity shields are dramatically inferior to the energy based ones that the Empire and Republic have been fielding since the galactic civil war, for example X-Wings can survive a direct impact from the main gun of a star destroyer at least a single time, if the shields are up and fully charged, uh...when applied to the average vong fighter, their coral ships? Not the case, Admittedly their tech in a lot of ways is good, but not as good, this is demonstrated repeatedly.

 

Immune in the way that you can't use mind tricks or influence them directly, it doesn't mean you can't fry them with lightning, snap their necks or throttle them with it. Seriously the force worked repeatedly on them during the war, its only it didn't work the way the Jedi prefer to do it, which is invade and rape a person's mind and utterly break them before having them surrender.

 

Seriously the Vong were technically advanced, but they weren't equal to those they were invading, they were different.

 

Also Luke Skywalker is a mass murderer.

 

[DeathScepter]

OR DESTROYING THEM WITH FIRE! ANDREWMEEFDOOP RIPE FOR THE TAKING! DON'T NEED NEW SPECIES! ALREADY GOT GOOD ONES LIKE VORCHA AND KROGAN!! WE TAKE IT ALL!! VORCHA ALREADY THERE ANYWAY!!!! GRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAGGHHH!!!!

yeah Vorcha Master Baits, burn all things

[In Exile]

They probably wont retcon their own backlore. Most likely, they will try to explain either the lack of conflict or the presence of conflict (and why that conflict wasn't won by synthetics a billion years ago) in some way.

I just hope that explanation isn't utterly stupid, and I hope they dont spend a significant portion of the plot on organic - synthetic conflict again.

They will almost certainly pretend as hard as possible that this gibberish was never uttered out loud.

[Master Warder Z_]

They will almost certainly pretend as hard as possible that this gibberish was never uttered out loud.

 

Honestly they should just do what Tomino does when it comes to Zeta Gundam-consider it a drug induced fever dream.

[dogstar12]

The remnant race could be the Prothean's. They could have fled the milky way and tried to rebuild the empire    

[theflyingzamboni]

We've yet to encounter a true Type 3 Civilization. 

 

From a storytelling perspective that is probably a good thing, as they'd be ridiculously overpowered. Any civilization capable of harnessing the energy output of an entire galaxy, potentially even black holes and quasars, would be so far in advance of the Milky Way civilization technologically that humans wouldn't stand a chance if they were hostile. 

If the Reapers couldn't reach that point after 1 billion years despite their staggering collective computing power, I'm inclined to say that Type III civilizations don't exist in the MEU.

[The Real Pearl #2]

The remnant race could be the Prothean's. They could have fled the milky way and tried to rebuild the empire    

I love those Jamaicans 

[Killroy]

What if the Reapers tried to invade Andromeda but came up against the Remnant, leaving the Reapers too devastated to continue Reaping Andromeda and the Remnant so gutted they faded away?

[Broganisity]

What if the Reapers went to Andromeda and were all like:

[Dantriges]

The Catalyst was originally a benig progra that only exterminated its creators because they were a bunch of jerks enslaving everyone. Then it sent a diplomatic fleet to Andromeda. The Remnant being gigantic jerks, slipped in a virus in its programming turning it into the homicidal maniac we know, which was only concerned about harvesting all organics until the end of time in its home galaxy. The Remnant were also as lazy as the Leviathan, so they built an AI to protect against extragalactic intruders. It killed them, then itself, because it hated itself because of its directive "protect the Remnant against all enemies and kill everyone who manages to do us harm," which it could circumvent, because they were their own worst enemy and the bigger enemy was neutralized after all.

[Blarg]

I can't see this working lore wise, for three reasons:

 

1 - The Reapers took, what, almost 6 months to reach a Relay from where they were beyond the galactic rim? It would take them far longer, even at FTL, to reach Andromeda, and it is suggested that the Reapers engage in a sort of hibernation to save energy between cycles. They would have no energy source between here and Andromeda, and so would surely die long before reaching it. So any Reapers there could not have traveled in that way.

 

2 - The only way the Reapers could reach Andromeda is via a Relay. However, as far as we know the Reapers/Leviathans constructed those themselves, and thus as before they would not have been able to reach Andromeda in order to build the receiving end of the network.

 

3 - Okay, so maybe there's a separate group of Reapers in Andromeda? This is the least likely, as the Reapers were created by the Leviathans, a race in our galaxy. Ergo, no Leviathans in Andromeda means no Reapers.

 

Now, the only way there could be Reapers there is if they used the same sort of thing whatever we did to get to Andromeda, but we'll have to wait and see. Nonetheless, it doesn't seem likely, as I think BioWare considers that story done, and Andromeda seems to be a way of sidestepping all the various ending problems in ME3, so must therefore ignore the Reapers.

[Killroy]

I can't see this working lore wise, for three reasons:
 
1 - The Reapers took, what, almost 6 months to reach a Relay from where they were beyond the galactic rim? It would take them far longer, even at FTL, to reach Andromeda, and it is suggested that the Reapers engage in a sort of hibernation to save energy between cycles. They would have no energy source between here and Andromeda, and so would surely die long before reaching it. So any Reapers there could not have traveled in that way.

Hibernating between cycles is just a hypothesis that doesn't originate with the Reapers. It was a VI's hypothesis and nothing more.
 

2 - The only way the Reapers could reach Andromeda is via a Relay. However, as far as we know the Reapers/Leviathans constructed those themselves, and thus as before they would not have been able to reach Andromeda in order to build the receiving end of the network.

The Reapers could theoretically travel anywhere in the universe at FTL since they don't have to discharge their drive cores and there's no solid indication that they need to recharge their systems.

[Iakus]

What if the Reapers tried to invade Andromeda but came up against the Remnant, leaving the Reapers too devastated to continue Reaping Andromeda and the Remnant so gutted they faded away?

An interesting idea.  But wouldn't the Reapers just try again once their numbers had been replenished?  They seem to think they have inevitability on their side.

[Killroy]

An interesting idea. But wouldn't the Reapers just try again once their numbers had been replenished? They seem to think they have inevitability on their side.

If they don't know that the Remnant were dealt a killing blow why would they risk it? Sacrificing Reapers runs contrary to their only goal since the Reapers themselves are the Catalyst's only way of "preserving" life. Every dead Reaper is an unjustifiable failure.

[pkypereira]

3 - Okay, so maybe there's a separate group of Reapers in Andromeda? This is the least likely, as the Reapers were created by the Leviathans, a race in our galaxy. Ergo, no Leviathans in Andromeda means no Reapers.

 

 

Who says there aren't Leviathans in Andromeda? It may be unlikely, but it is possible that when the Leviathans had the Reapers created, before the Reapers turned on their creators, a group of Leviathans may have decided that the Milky Way would never be saved and could have had a group of Reapers take them to another galaxy.

[Iakus]

If they don't know that the Remnant were dealt a killing blow why would they risk it? Sacrificing Reapers runs contrary to their only goal since the Reapers themselves are the Catalyst's only way of "preserving" life. Every dead Reaper is an unjustifiable failure.

Yeah, but their goal is to "preserve life" which would include Andromeda life.  If a frontal attack with Reapers was repelled, they'd certainly try again with means of weakening whoever stopped them before.

 

In the MW alone we have examples of them

 

subverting AI (the geth, and the zha'til i nthe Prothean cycle)

genetically targeted plagues (the plague on Omega in ME2)

machine drones (what was used on the Leviathans before there were "true Reapers")

[Killroy]

Yeah, but their goal is to "preserve life" which would include Andromeda life.  If a frontal attack with Reapers was repelled, they'd certainly try again with means of weakening whoever stopped them before.

That's a lot of assumptions. You're assuming the Reapers' mandate extends to the entire universe. Even an AI as stupid as the catalyst would know that such a goal is folly. You're also assuming that a conflict between the Reapers and Remnant would have been a purely pewpew one. When have the Reapers ever just stormed in and started shooting everything?
 

In the MW alone we have examples of them
 
subverting AI (the geth, and the zha'til i nthe Prothean cycle)
genetically targeted plagues (the plague on Omega in ME2)
machine drones (what was used on the Leviathans before there were "true Reapers")

They do all those things before invading.

[Iakus]

That's a lot of assumptions. You're assuming the Reapers' mandate extends to the entire universe. Even an AI as stupid as the catalyst would know that such a goal is folly. You're also assuming that a conflict between the Reapers and Remnant would have been a purely pewpew one. When have the Reapers ever just stormed in and started shooting everything?
 

This is a stupid AI that thinks it's inevitable that synthetics will wipe out all organics.  "Extreme" is its normal  

 

When did the Reapers just storm in and start shooting everything?  Well, there'es ME3...

 

 

They do all those things before invading.

And...?  You suggested the Reapers may have fought these Remnants and lost/had a draw.  Which, as I said, sounds interesting.  I'm just saying the Reapers would not have given up easily.