459 réponses à ce sujet

[NKnight7]

Swords in ME:A

 

 

True, I have a feeling that would probably be a renegade interrupt.

[Laughing_Man]

The thing about Cool Swords is that in order to make them really effective as a main weapon you need to build special vanguard cyber ninjas.

 

However, like any player of ME3MP will be able to tell you, when a Phantom enters close range she is just as vulnerable as she is potentially deadly.

 

Instead, take this phantom, leave her with all of her cyber and biotic enhancements, and give her a powerful ranged weapon instead of a katana.

 

She will be just as deadly in close combat with a bayonet or a combat knife, but she wouldn't need to come into close range to kill you. This is only a last resort. Instead, she would just flip around invisible, flank you, and use advanced ranged weapons to make your life a living hell.

 

My point is, a powerful ranged weapon in the hands of a cyber ninja will be exponentially more dangerous than a space-magic sword -

just as a gun in the hands of a vanilla human, is exponentially more dangerous than a sword.

[SNascimento]

My point is, a powerful ranged weapon in the hands of a cyber ninja will be exponentially more dangerous than a space-magic sword -

just as a gun in the hands of a vanilla human, is exponentially more dangerous than a sword.

It's a fair point, but I'd say you're forgetting something crucial: gameplay. In this type of discussion I reckon people think too much about lore and logic and forget the basic fact that Mass Effect is, before anything, a game. Sure, you could give the Phantom a ranged weapon, but then you would take away what makes the Phantom such a cool enemy and lose variety. She would be just one more enemy that takes cover and shoot you from afar, with melee being a secundary option.

I recently watched the tv adaptation The Last Kingdom of the Saxon Series by Bernard Cornwell. It was beautiful, but that's besides the point. I remember seeing the first trailer and being disappointed by the fact that the Saxons used rectangular shields instead of the circular ones. It wasn't like that in the books and it wasn't historical. After watching the first episode I totally changed my mind about that, it was a precise change because it allowed us  in a confused world to quickly identify who were the Danes and who were the Saxons. It was a change made because of the unique necessity of a TV series. 

The point is, you cannot analyze if putting swords in Mass Effect is a good or bad idea simply because of logic or lore. It's a incomplete view that misses a crucial factor. A game has needs that are unique to them and even if story in a Bioware game is extremely important, gameplay is, at the very least, just as important. You give a Phantom a gun and  she stops being a cool enemy and so the gameplay suffers.

Indeed, there A LOT of things in Mass Effect that doesn't make sense whatsover but are there because of gameplay. Imagine if you take away Biotic Charge because it doesn't make sense? It would hurt ME2 and ME3 immensely (to be fair, biotics as a whole is there because of gameplay). Of course, you can always say that teleporting using your mind and is ok, but swords are not. Personally I prefer to keep and open mind and see if it makes the game better or not. Swords in ME3 made it a better game, so it was worth putting them there. If the same happens in ME:A, I'd say the same.

[SNascimento]

True, I have a feeling that would probably be a renegade interrupt.

[ExoGeniVI]

It's a fair point, but I'd say you're forgetting something crucial: gameplay. In this type of discussion I reckon people think too much about lore and logic and forget the basic fact that Mass Effect is, before anything, a game. Sure, you could give the Phantom a ranged weapon, but then you would take away what makes the Phantom such a cool enemy and lose variety. She would be just one more enemy that takes cover and shoot you from afar, with melee being a secundary option.

I recently watched the tv adaptation The Last Kingdom of the Saxon Series by Bernard Cornwell. It was beautiful, but that's besides the point. I remember seeing the first trailer and being disappointed by the fact that the Saxons used rectangular shields instead of the circular ones. It wasn't like that in the books and it wasn't historical. After watching the first episode I totally changed my mind about that, it was a precise change because it allowed us  in a confused world to quickly identify who were the Danes and who were the Saxons. It was a change made because of the unique necessity of a TV series. 

The point is, you cannot analyze if putting swords in Mass Effect is a good or bad idea simply because of logic or lore. It's a incomplete view that a crucial factor. A game has needs that are unique to them and even if story in a Bioware game is extremely important, gameplay is, at the very least, just as important. You give a Phantom a gun and  she stops being a cool enemy and so the gameplay suffers.

Indeed, there A LOT of things in Mass Effect that doesn't make sense whatsover but are there because of gameplay. Imagine if you take away Biotic Charge because it doesn't make sense? It would hurt ME2 and ME3 immensely (to be fair, biotics as a whole is there because of gameplay). Of course, you can always say that teleporting using your mind and is ok, but swords are not. Personally I prefer to keep and open mind and see if it makes the game better or not. Swords in ME3 made it a better game, so it was worth putting them there. If the same happens in ME:A, I'd say the same.

Yes, It's just a video-game!

[Deathjester929]

The thing about Cool Swords is that in order to make them really effective as a main weapon you need to build special vanguard cyber ninjas.

 

However, like any player of ME3MP will be able to tell you, when a Phantom enters close range she is just as vulnerable as she is potentially deadly.

 

Instead, take this phantom, leave her with all of her cyber and biotic enhancements, and give her a powerful ranged weapon instead of a katana.

 

She will be just as deadly in close combat with a bayonet or a combat knife, but she wouldn't need to come into close range to kill you. This is only a last resort. Instead, she would just flip around invisible, flank you, and use advanced ranged weapons to make your life a living hell.

 

My point is, a powerful ranged weapon in the hands of a cyber ninja will be exponentially more dangerous than a space-magic sword -

just as a gun in the hands of a vanilla human, is exponentially more dangerous than a sword.

 

 

Pretty much. Phantoms should just be like infiltrators and maybe throw in some biotic stuff. The problem with swords is something only a primitive culture would use them after the invention of ranged weapons. We have already established that biotics takes training. To master the sword takes a lifetime. 

 

No military or organization would waste the time and resources to train the sword, when it is inferior as a weapon. There is not enough time in a day to do all this training.

 

As you also said, give a handgun or a shotgun and a sword to anyone who has never used them and the person with the guns are 100 percent lethal, while the person with the sword may cut themselves lol,

 

 

Yes, It's just a video-game!

 

It is just a game, but the game is already based on MANY THINGS not resembling reality. You have to have SOME realism or you lose immersion. If I saw someone coming at me with a sword, when I have laser rifles and guns, and shotguns for medium range and basically force powers and all the other fantastical, imaginary tech or abilities this game has?

 

It would be comical, just like the Indiana Jones scene was comical and that is just against a normal handgun, not ME guns.  Kai Leng was COMICAL. I laughed at how stupid it all was. A guy with a sword basically doing cartwheels. Most ridiculous thing in the series.  I doubt that was the intent of the character...Making me laugh at him. I was not laughing at Saren. He had a sweet green goblin disc and guns. 

[ExoGeniVI]

Pretty much. Phantoms should just be like infiltrators and maybe throw in some biotic stuff. The problem with swords is something only a primitive culture would use them after the invention of ranged weapons. We have already established that biotics takes training. To master the sword takes a lifetime. 

 

No military or organization would waste the time and resources to train the sword, when it is inferior as a weapon. There is not enough time in a day to do all this training.

 

As you also said, give a handgun or a shotgun and a sword to anyone who has never used them and the person with the guns are 100 percent lethal, while the person with the sword may cut themselves lol,

 

 

 

It is just a game, but the game is already based on MANY THINGS not resembling reality. You have to have SOME realism or you lose immersion. If I saw someone coming at me with a sword, when I have laser rifles and guns, and shotguns for medium range and basically force powers and all the other fantastical, imaginary tech or abilities this game has?

 

It would be comical, just like the Indiana Jones scene was comical and that is just against a normal handgun, not ME guns.  Kai Leng was COMICAL. I laughed at how stupid it all was. A guy with a sword basically doing cartwheels. Most ridiculous thing in the series.  I doubt that was the intent of the character...Making me laugh at him. I was not laughing at Saren. He had a sweet green goblin disc and guns. 

Borderlands has no realism and it was/is fun.

[Deathjester929]

Borderlands has no realism and it was/is fun.

 

 

Not saying a game cannot be good with swords where they shouldn't be there. KOTOR is Bioware's best game of all time as far as romance (directly tied to main story arc and not fan fiction garbage), plot, villains story arc and by a large margin in my books.

 

I still laughed at the swords though. A main villain using them against the imaginary tech/powers in ME? Welp I just laughed at that harder. Especially when my own Shep has a hologram wep that magically appears and is not as clumsy as a sword in very close quarters. Farther than that? Just shoot em. 

 

Also in KOTOR I think a big reason they started you off with swords was...

 

They wanted to make you getting a light saber feel special and feel epic, and they really succeeded there. Once I got a saber I sure as heck was not equipping a stupid piece of metal in my hand lol.

[goishen]

Apparently you never got your ass kicked by that sword.  On insanity, I was pissed at that sword when I met him both times. 

 

I dunno, it's really up to the developers, but I'm thinking that with the western vibe that they're going for there won't be many swords in the game.

[Vortex13]

I dunno, it's really up to the developers, but I'm thinking that with the western vibe that they're going for there won't be many swords in the game.

 

 

Which I prefer to be honest. 

 

Eastern (particularly Japanese) style of science fiction is very hit and miss for me. Cowboy Bebop was okay, but from the inspirations that I have seen BioWare use we would be more likely to get giant robots with swords and/or Dragon Ball Z.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Which I prefer to be honest. 

 

Eastern (particularly Japanese) style of science fiction is very hit and miss for me. Cowboy Bebop was okay, but from the inspirations that I have seen BioWare use we would be more likely to get giant robots with swords and/or Dragon Ball Z.

 

Oh, I'd much rather get toys like exoseletons or powered armor than swords too. Just saying, the concept is not as far-fetched a a guy using a saber on a modern-day battlefield. Even if gameplay-wise melee attacks could be interesting.

 

I think we already get our melee fix with the Omni-Blades, which are emergency weapons more than anything, and that's a function still fulfilled by combat knives for soldiers to this day.

[goishen]

Cowboy Bebop

 

 

Cowboy Bebop rocked.  I can't understand why they ever would take that off the air.  Kind'a punk, kind'a sleek, kind'a dark, kind'a intelligent.  Color me close to a Cowboy Bebop fanatic.

[Malthier]

Stop what? I'm giving real and sane ideas unlike the guy who wants threesomes...

 

its true. im a complete maniac.

 

a complete sexy maniac. 

[Treacherous J Slither]

I like the swords in ME.

It only makes sense for Infiltrators and Vanguards in my eyes though. Classes that can effortlessly close the distance.

My brother put me on to Attack On Titan. Great program. However, I took issue with the reliance on close range weapons versus long range weapons because the mortality rate of the fighters is very high and I believe that developing and utilizing long range weapons designed specifically for the titans would give the fighters a significant edge and lower the mortality rate a great deal. My brother refused to listen. "That just ain't cool." he said and showed me a video of the most talented titan fighter doing his thing. I had to admit that he was right. Watching Levi go at it was a trip. Guns versus giant monsters just doesn't have the same impact as swords versus giant monsters.

Yeah so I want swords in my Mass Effect.

Space ninjas are awesome.

[Typhrus]

I like the swords in ME.

It only makes sense for Infiltrators and Vanguards in my eyes though. Classes that can effortlessly close the distance.

My brother put me on to Attack On Titan. Great program. However, I took issue with the reliance on close range weapons versus long range weapons because the mortality rate of the fighters is very high and I believe that developing and utilizing long range weapons designed specifically for the titans would give the fighters a significant edge and lower the mortality rate a great deal. My brother refused to listen. "That just ain't cool." he said and showed me a video of the most talented titan fighter doing his thing. I had to admit that he was right. Watching Levi go at it was a trip. Guns versus giant monsters just doesn't have the same impact as swords versus giant monsters.

Yeah so I want swords in my Mass Effect.

Space ninjas are awesome.

 

Actually it is explained in the anime and presumably the manga why swords are more effective than muskets or cannons. A musket at best can only temporarily blind a titan, hence why they're primarily used by the Military Police in AoT. The cannons on the other hand, can indeed knock off a titan's head, but the issue there is that it will regenerate in a few minutes. There is also the issue of accuracy, as were talking about circa 18th century cannons and not modern artillery. The only sure fire method of killing a titan was slicing the nape of a titan's neck.

Spoiler

This likely works because there is a single human interred in that spot in each titan

. I find the 3d manoeuvring gear cooler than the swords, although incredibly impractical because of physics.

I've also noted that people do not bring up Warhammer 40k as a comparable source, despite the wide use of swords and other melee weapons. Yes some of those wielders are super human or demonically enhanced, but you do have your average joe human wielding a sword or other such close combat weapons. This is also a universe that employs massive mechs, giant monsters and colossal ships on a regular basis. Yet close combat weapons are still a common feature of all the factions, so much so, that it is kind of one of the hallmarks of the game.

 

I guess to some degree, the swords and shields do kind of fall into the 'rule of cool' in ME. But I don't see why some kind of reason could be implemented for it to make sense in universe. Hell, the mere fact that Omni-blades exist shouldn't discount the use of swords. How can something that isn't actually solid be formed into a sharp blade for attacking or defence? There was, as far as I can remember an actual reason why Omni-blades were suddenly a thing in ME3.  

[Dantriges]

Well because it´s WH 40k which doesn´t take itself so seriously. Ork technology? And it´s so grimdark it punches a buttom in the bottom of the deep dark barrel and exits on the silly side.

[SardaukarElite]

Well because it´s WH 40k which doesn´t take itself so seriously. Ork technology? And it´s so grimdark it punches a buttom in the bottom of the deep dark barrel and exits on the silly side.

 

I feel the need to point out here that the term grimdark comes from Warhammer 40,000, which is why it's kind of funny to apply it to anything trying to be dark out of a desire to be serious. 

[Former_Fiend]

I'm pro-swords.

 

Why? Because playing as a Shadow was fun. Give me more of that, and put it in single player so I don't have to be connected to the internet or interact with other people to do it.

 

I'm also pro-shields. Why? See above, just replace "Shadow" with "Paladin."

 

Normally I'm on the other side of these kind of debates; I tend to me more conservative when it comes to over the top action. But the simple fact is that things like Shadows, Phantoms, Paladins, Warlords, Slayers - they don't break the immersion for me. I'm willing to buy that when combined with barriers, armor, cloaks, and cybernetic implants to increase speed and agility, that blades can be effective secondary weapons in futuristic combat. 

 

Aside from that, they're fun and enjoyable to play, and give you more options than "the guy who shoots things". I know a lot of people label ME as a shooter first and an RPG second, but I would like to see it take something to separate it from being just another shooter. I'd like to see things that are perhaps implausible and impractical in real life and play with them in the game for style and creativity. I don't want things to become monotonous and uniform and boring in the name of practicality. 

 

And at the end of the day, there is a type of visceral enjoyment that comes from killing your enemy with a melee weapon that you just can't get with a gun, in my humble opinion.

 

I think that about covers my arguments for this; it's fun, it's not as unbelievable or immersion breaking as some people make it out to be, it offers more variety, and it's fun.

 

That point bears repeating.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Actually it is explained in the anime and presumably the manga why swords are more effective than muskets or cannons. A musket at best can only temporarily blind a titan, hence why they're primarily used by the Military Police in AoT. The cannons on the other hand, can indeed knock off a titan's head, but the issue there is that it will regenerate in a few minutes. There is also the issue of accuracy, as were talking about circa 18th century cannons and not modern artillery. The only sure fire method of killing a titan was slicing the nape of a titan's neck.

Spoiler

This likely works because there is a single human interred in that spot in each titan

. I find the 3d manoeuvring gear cooler than the swords, although incredibly impractical because of physics.
I've also noted that people do not bring up Warhammer 40k as a comparable source, despite the wide use of swords and other melee weapons. Yes some of those wielders are super human or demonically enhanced, but you do have your average joe human wielding a sword or other such close combat weapons. This is also a universe that employs massive mechs, giant monsters and colossal ships on a regular basis. Yet close combat weapons are still a common feature of all the factions, so much so, that it is kind of one of the hallmarks of the game.
 
I guess to some degree, the swords and shields do kind of fall into the 'rule of cool' in ME. But I don't see why some kind of reason could be implemented for it to make sense in universe. Hell, the mere fact that Omni-blades exist shouldn't discount the use of swords. How can something that isn't actually solid be formed into a sharp blade for attacking or defence? There was, as far as I can remember an actual reason why Omni-blades were suddenly a thing in ME3.

I gave it some serious thought. Because I'm a hopeless nerd. I'm not talking about muskets man. Never was. They can build cannon sized guns with a piercing ability and enough accuracy to sharpshoot the weak point from any angle.

With enough of these specialized guns on all the walls and various points throughout the various cities, the titans would no longer be such a threat and their arrival would amount to nothing more than a shooting gallery.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I gave it some serious thought. Because I'm a hopeless nerd. I'm not talking about muskets man. Never was. They can build cannon sized guns with a piercing ability and enough accuracy to sharpshoot the weak point from any angle.

With enough of these specialized guns on all the walls and various points throughout the various cities, the titans would no longer be such a threat and their arrival would amount to nothing more than a shooting gallery.

While they don't create the cannons you are referring to, they do develop a way to kill Titans without endangering their own people. This is why humanity is currently on the offensive against the Titans in the manga. However, this weapon is one that can only be defensive in nature, similar to the cannons you proposed, so when it comes to offense the shearing blades are still the weapon to use for killing Titans. 

[GoldenGail3]

No..... This isn't KOTOR. I happen to like KOTOR too (despite it being a space game, i love the thrill of cutting my enemies in half with a lightsaver!) But no, no really. They are two different games that should stay far, far away In a different Galaxy.

[Fade9wayz]

In ME3MP, Shadow/Slayer/Paladin/Warlord brought variety to the gameplay, just like other classes did beforehand. Some people play them very melee-oriented (more so the warlord and shadow than the other two to be honest) and some use melee only at specific, safe times and shoot with some big gun the rest of the time. It depends of the build and how much fun the player could derivate from said build, regardless of efficiency. I wouldn't mind seeing these classes and powers come back in MEAMP, or even MEASP, for variety's sake. 

 

Also, I'm all for sharpened helicopter blades.

[Bfler]

Yes, please give me a bat'leth.

[Undead Han]

It's a fair point, but I'd say you're forgetting something crucial: gameplay. In this type of discussion I reckon people think too much about lore and logic and forget the basic fact that Mass Effect is, before anything, a game. Sure, you could give the Phantom a ranged weapon, but then you would take away what makes the Phantom such a cool enemy and lose variety. She would be just one more enemy that takes cover and shoot you from afar, with melee being a secundary option.

 

 

I agree that game the needs some enemies who use melee attacks for gameplay variety, but do those melee attacks have to come from obsolete 17th and 18th Century weapons?

 

I'd give the Andromeda equivalent of the Phantom an Omni tool blade to use for melee instead of a samurai sword, and give it a submachine gun or assault rifle to use at range.

[ExoGeniVI]

I agree that game the needs some enemies who use melee attacks for gameplay variety, but do those melee attacks have to come from obsolete 17th and 18th Century weapons?

 

I'd give the Andromeda equivalent of the Phantom an Omni tool blade to use for melee instead of a samurai sword, and give it a submachine gun or assault rifle to use at range.

Or a big-ass electric Sword that can shoot electric currents 20 feet and a black widow 3 shot sniper rifle...