88 réponses à ce sujet

[SolNebula]

I'm in favor of implementing a reputation system where your actions influence the opinion of your companions towards you but also the opinion other in game factions have based on how you dealt with previous situations. Similar to Fallout.

[Zekka]

Introduce a reputation system akin to fallout new vegas or gothic but better and ditch paragon and renegade. Also, don't include markers or color coded dialogue choices

[fchopin]

I don't use them, i just pick the best text for my play and don't worry if paragon or renegade.

 

Most times i get points for both.

[Joseph Warrick]

I like the Renegade way. I hope ME:A keeps this staple of the franchise.

[themikefest]

I don't mind having paragon/renegade. Too bad ME3 didn't have more interrupts or at least harsh dialogue

[Dean_the_Young]

I like the idea of a reputation system, but they should really reinvent how they implement it. Paragon/Renegade was both too arbitrary and too simplistic. 

 

The word I'd go for would be 'inconsistent.'

 

The P/R system suffered from a lot of things, ranging from from mechanics of the dialogue wheel (where 'Renege' and 'no' always shared the same space- even in romances- something they fixed by DAI) to the structure of the persuasion system to simple confusion over whether Paragon and Renegade were positions or tones.

 

In ME1, even if there was a tear tone distinction between nobler-than-Jesus paragon and angry xenophobe renegade, there were also clear political positions tied to the two. Paragon was all about deferring to the pre-established authority, procedural justice, and pro-Council politics. Renegade was consistently defiant, goals-oriented, and Humanity-first politics. These never swapped- Renegade never meant prioritizing the Council- and so the system had a reliable political dynamic.

 

In ME2, the writers turned away from P/R standing for any particular position, and focused on tones. Paragon was almost always the nice/diplomatic option for moral validation- and Renegade was the angry/angrier alternative- no matter what they actually stood for. The Cerberus plot (particularly the Collector Ship), Legion's loyalty mission are key examples where tone was placed above position. Paragon and Renegade couldn't decide whether they supported Cerberus's ends-justify-the-means or if it was all about Shepard. Legion's loyalty mission outright flipped the P/R designation of the otherwise thematically consistent setup about the delimma.' Then they didn't even keep what the tones they were supposed to be consistent for DLC- such as the one Paragon action in the game which comes from punching a disarmed civilian (the Overlord DLC).

 

ME3 pretty much abandoned themes- abandoning a lot of the previously Paragon positions of 'I won't let fear change who we are' by having Shepard make a whole lot of previously-Renegade 'necessity' arguments to justify everything, when Paragon had previously been consistently about rejecting appeals to advantage/necessity.

 

 

Ultimately I'd support the P/R system if it went to being about defined, consistent positions rather than tones. Positions allow themes, and themes are a good device to track and frame a character's actions in a story.

 

Is our protagonist in Andromedea going to be one who views ourselves as the intruders in someone else's galaxy, seeking alignment with the Andromedea power structure and deferring to them and their loose claims of empty space like Paragon deferred to the Council? Or are we colonizers in a galaxy big enough for all, this is our planet now, and we're prepared to fight to defend our claim and ourselves?

 

I think these sort of themes would have value in the story, and while a P/R system isn't necessary for any individual issue it would help combine all the issues into an overarching theme of how Humanity's entry into Andromedea will be perceived- much as how ME1's P/R was about how Humanity would be perceived by the Council races.

[ArcadiaGrey]

I don't mind it when its like ME3 and basically easy to ignore.

Except I don't want being Renegade to give you scars. That's silly. And associating disfigurement with "evil" is rather unfortunate, really.

 

Good point, scars = bad is not the best message for those of us who have them :/

[ArcadiaGrey]

Personally I really love a lot of the paragon and renegade interrupts, and using or not using them helps define my Shepard's character so I wouldn't want to lose those.  I mean who doesn't want to shove a guy through a window and drop him?

 

My problem is that my 2 canon Sheps (yep, got 2) are Para-gade and Rene-gon.  They're reasonable people with different ideas of the world, but are essentially more moderate than a full on Paragon or Renegade.  This makes them more believable and is how I want to play the game, they're less of cardboard cut-out GOOD or BAD guy...but it leads to me not having enough points in either to make some of the key choices.  

 

Bioware, please don't freeze me out of an amazing Renegade speech at Tali's treason trail that would have fit my Shep's character perfectly.  I couldn't quite make the quota for Renegade points because she wasn't a total ****** and had been kind every now and again, building up some Paragon points in the process.  I ended up having to do the trial after the Suicide mission and wear the stoopid death helmet just to get the speech 

[wolfsite]

ME3 had the best reputation system of the three games. you had Paragon, Renegade, and Neutral points with the total points allowing you access to both Paragon and Renegade options regardless of which one was higher.

 

Plus with neutral points you didn't have to act like a douche-bag to your crew just to make sure you got enough Renegade points (something that really hampered the ME2 system for those wanting to do Paragade or Renagon style characters).

[Nattfare]

Good point, scars = bad is not the best message for those of us who have them :/

 

Poor Cassandra didn't get a lot of love from some because she has scars.

 

I think they wanted to go the same route as they did with KotOR, the more nasty you were, the more terrible your face looked.

 

It was the augments in Shepard that caused the effect I think? Even the eyes were flaring a bit when being renegade. So for some reason not even the skin was able to heal properly because of that flaring.

[Dean_the_Young]

ME3 had the best reputation system of the three games. you had Paragon, Renegade, and Neutral points with the total points allowing you access to both Paragon and Renegade options regardless of which one was higher.

 

Plus with neutral points you didn't have to act like a douche-bag to your crew just to make sure you got enough Renegade points (something that really hampered the ME2 system for those wanting to do Paragade or Renagon style characters).

 

ME3 also had the least thematic difference between Paragon and Renegade. I really struggle to differentiate the two in ME3 on a thematic, rather than tonal, level. Paragon was a little bit nicer, and choices frequently slanted to work a little bit better (Rachni mission comes to mind), but otherwise? The two largely marged- Renegade stopped being jerk, and Paragon stopped putting principles over necessity or greater-good.

 

It was

[Heimdall]

I'd like to get rid of them completely or have them integrated into a much more consistent reputation system.

[Mdizzletr0n]

They aren't dropping P/R because then it "wouldn't be Mass Effect."

I liked the DA approval system a lot better myself. There weren't really any consequences with your squad/companions/space buddies within P/R.They might be mad for a second but if you could give them a small doe-eyed speech and they would pretty much respond like: "Oh...Shepard, I could NEVER stay mad at YOU! *heart heart smiley face*"

[AlanC9]

Introduce a reputation system akin to fallout new vegas or gothic but better and ditch paragon and renegade. Also, don't include markers or color coded dialogue choices

Well, unless they dump any form of persuasion skill we'll need to have those options marked, at least.

[ArcadiaGrey]

Poor Cassandra didn't get a lot of love from some because she has scars.

 

I think they wanted to go the same route as they did with KotOR, the more nasty you were, the more terrible your face looked.

 

It was the augments in Shepard that caused the effect I think? Even the eyes were flaring a bit when being renegade. So for some reason not even the skin was able to heal properly because of that flaring.

 

Yet I think Cassandra's scar is kinda sexy, gives her character!   I really like all the war wounds people have in Inquisition, my inquisitors aren't complete without some themselves.

 

Yep it was the Lazarus project messing with Shepard, I think because he/she was woken up early with the station being attacked.  But if you're nice they heal....you know, solid medical facts there  

[Lonely Heart Poet]

If they just cut that iconic content out without adding alternative choice, I would miss it. And this actually can be a mission impossible, because paragon/renegade worked in many situations well. I don't know why it is having SO bad reputation.

Alternative ideas:
I was thinking something around respect, honesty and leadership. You could gain those by speaking with you staff and doing missions well. Loyalty missions were a good solutions but not perfect. Those missions could be mix of a discussion and a shorter action - one mission would be that you took him or her to your own missions.
Like Traynor, James and Cortez: you get to know them by speaking and gain their respect. Add more pepper and salt, hide the "loyalty" in loyalty missions, make them proud of you by your own actions and examples.

[Arcian]

Charm and Intimidate need to be merged into a single skill that unlocks both options whenever it's leveled up. That way no one's locked in and can roleplay however they want.

I pretty much only play Paragon, but there are a bunch of choices where I choose the Renegade option because I think it fits better. For example, during Thane's Loyalty Mission in ME2, telling the what's-his-face scumbag being interrogated that you're a Spectre and can do whatever you want to him... why is that even locked into Renegade? Why shouldn't a Paragon Shepard be able to use their Specte status to circumvent a lengthy interrogation?

[slimgrin]

It's inherently a flawed concept for role playing. It kills any nuance to C&C.

[Nattfare]

Yet I think Cassandra's scar is kinda sexy, gives her character!   I really like all the war wounds people have in Inquisition, my inquisitors aren't complete without some themselves.

 

Yep it was the Lazarus project messing with Shepard, I think because he/she was woken up early with the station being attacked.  But if you're nice they heal....you know, solid medical facts there  

 

Given that she is a seasoned veteran in her profession too you'd expect her to have taken her fair share of wounds and injuries. Definitely agree that the scar puts some more character in her character.

 

Solid medical facts has very little say over space magic, you know.

[KaiserShep]

Charm and Intimidate need to be merged into a single skill that unlocks both options whenever it's leveled up. That way no one's locked in and can roleplay however they want.

I pretty much only play Paragon, but there are a bunch of choices where I choose the Renegade option because I think it fits better. For example, during Thane's Loyalty Mission in ME2, telling the what's-his-face scumbag being interrogated that you're a Spectre and can do whatever you want to him... why is that even locked into Renegade? Why shouldn't a Paragon Shepard be able to use their Specte status to circumvent a lengthy interrogation?

 

I agree with this. My Shepard leans a bit more Renegade, yet not enough to unlock that, and it's annoying. 

[Cyonan]

If they just cut that iconic content out without adding alternative choice, I would miss it. And this actually can be a mission impossible, because paragon/renegade worked in many situations well. I don't know why it is having SO bad reputation.

 

My general issue with it is that in order to get the choices into the late game, you pretty much have to make all paragon or all renegade choices.

 

It feels like it's punishing you for trying to play a character which isn't pure one or the other, which I very rarely want to do.

[Deathjester929]

Would you want that in ME:A?

 

Your choices your own, with no reason to have to take either side. No conversation options would be greyed out, everything would be an option. Even the ones you'd typically have to have enough points in one or the other to achieve.

 

It fit in KOTOR because in KOTOR you were a Jedi and had a set code.

 

In ME? It did not fit at all. It could fit if our character was a justicar. We aren't. Even then we might disagree with the Justicar code, just like we disagreed with the Jedi Code. KOTOR allowed that though and Jolee Bindo basically told you the Jedi Order was high, and that love was fine. 

 

Oh and I think the renegade/paragon option that ticked me off the most? Being in the bar with soldiers just letting off steam having some drinks with Vega.

 

WTF was that? I got renegade points for this? Who wrote that scene and decided that? A prohibitionist? 

[vbibbi]

Ideally I'd like a more complex system rather than a two dimensional scale.

 

Renegade lumped together chaotic stupid with pragmatic with sarcastic d!ckhead too often. Paragon had goody two shoes options, but also naive and gullible options.

 

I want there to be a mix of the ME3 style of reputation, where anything we do nets us neutral "points" that add on to the paragon/renegade checks, and of different alignments or attitudes like in Pillars of Eternity. So, we would have altruistic, diplomatic, pragmatic, and ruthless. Or some variation. So we have more options of responses that aren't lumped into "good" and "evil" and the game tracks how many times a certain option is used, like in DA2. The neutral reputation points help so that if we haven't used enough of one attitude, as long as we've done enough side quests to earn a reputation, we can still choose the dialogue we want.

 

This rewards players for doing side content and doesn't restrict us to one voice.

[Yaroub]

Yes. Tear it down completely!

[ArcadiaGrey]

Given that she is a seasoned veteran in her profession too you'd expect her to have taken her fair share of wounds and injuries. Definitely agree that the scar puts some more character in her character.

Solid medical facts has very little say over space magic, you know.

Hehe, gotta love the space magic!

(1940 announcers voice)...'Brain been dead for a considerable length of time, denied oxygen and shrivelled up like a raisin? No probs! Cerberus is here with their super sophisticated **coughspluttercough** "technology" to fix you right up...it's basically just like re-hydrating a sun dried tomato don't you know'

Maybe a wizard did it