135 respuestas en este tema

[dragonflight288]

Will the demon force Merrill for a discount?

 

Nope. Merethari. 

[RoseLawliet]

When I played the game for the first time: Sure, why not? It gives me friendship points.

 

When I played again and all I knew about Eluvians was Morrigan found one and fell through it after I stabbed her: No, I did not support Merrill. I, as the player, didn't want anyone finding Morrigan's body and asking questions. Should have guessed she wouldn't stay dead.

 

When I learned it was connected to the Dalish origin: No, I did not support Merrill. It was dangerous, and her idea of eliminating said danger involved a deal with a demon.

 

When I learned there were many and that Briala had control of them: No opinion change, but now I would rather tell Merrill just to go find one that works.

 

When I learned that Solas took over the network: NO! MERRILL, NO! I don't care if he has no reason to go to Kirkwall, YOU DON'T NEED TO MAKE MORE MAGIC DOORS FOR HIM TO EXPLOIT!

[Lazarillo]

Merrill wants to restore it because it was made by ancient Elves.  She doesn't know what it does, but she does know it killed one or two people.  Oh, but that couldn't possibly be related to its function, it was just a coincidence!  And I'mma let Aveline bring up another important point:

And I think Merrill's response only reinforces the point.  Merrill's so obsessed with "restoring history" that she never stops to consider whether or not it should even be restored in the first place.  She never even stops to consider the implications of what she's doing, or if she can do more good some other way.  She just pours her entire life into one single artifact that is of dubious value in the first place, even if it isn't outright dangerous (which we know it isn't, but she has no way of knowing that, nor really even an excuse to reasonably assume otherwise).

[Contraire]

Merrill's so obsessed with "restoring history" that she never stops to consider whether or not it should even be restored in the first place.  She never even stops to consider the implications of what she's doing, or if she can do more good some other way.  She just pours her entire life into one single artifact that is of dubious value in the first place, even if it isn't outright dangerous (which we know it isn't, but she has no way of knowing that, nor really even an excuse to reasonably assume otherwise).

What possible reason could there be why history shouldn't be restored? Merrill's not trying to restore Arlathan here. She's trying to study where her people came from, trying to give back a part of their history they've lost. Who gets to decide how Merrill deals with her heritage if not Merrill? 

 

What does it matter that she could do "more good" some other way? Why does it fall to Merrill, who's chosen her way of helping people, to reject her goal and embrace some other? By that measure, Hawke would do more good is they defended the cause of their fellow Fereldan refugees more. Anders would do more good if he stopped helping Hawke and devoted himself solely to the clinic. And given that Merrill's chosen exile from her clan rather than giving up on fixing the eluvian, I'd say she's pretty aware of the implications.

[Qun00]

Merrill wants to restore it because it was made by ancient Elves.  She doesn't know what it does, but she does know it killed one or two people.  Oh, but that couldn't possibly be related to its function, it was just a coincidence!  And I'mma let Aveline bring up another important point:
https://www.youtube....h?v=0gQL_0CJvEE
And I think Merrill's response only reinforces the point.  Merrill's so obsessed with "restoring history" that she never stops to consider whether or not it should even be restored in the first place.  She never even stops to consider the implications of what she's doing, or if she can do more good some other way.  She just pours her entire life into one single artifact that is of dubious value in the first place, even if it isn't outright dangerous (which we know it isn't, but she has no way of knowing that, nor really even an excuse to reasonably assume otherwise).

And as usual, her answer is BS. "That's the opposite of what I've been saying". No, that's exactly what you've been saying.

[straykat]

My first run through... and if I just play things out naturally... is simply not have high enough Friend/Rivalry. So the Eluvian is still worked on, I think.

 

Very easy for me to get Rivalry if I destroy Tarohne's tomes and she's around. Not so much with dialogue.

[Lazarillo]

What possible reason could there be why history shouldn't be restored? Merrill's not trying to restore Arlathan here. She's trying to study where her people came from, trying to give back a part of their history they've lost. Who gets to decide how Merrill deals with her heritage if not Merrill?

What does it matter that she could do "more good" some other way? Why does it fall to Merrill, who's chosen her way of helping people, to reject her goal and embrace some other? By that measure, Hawke would do more good is they defended the cause of their fellow Fereldan refugees more. Anders would do more good if he stopped helping Hawke and devoted himself solely to the clinic. And given that Merrill's chosen exile from her clan rather than giving up on fixing the eluvian, I'd say she's pretty aware of the implications.

The factor here is that Merrill has lost sight of the forest for the trees (an elf-appropriate analogy, even!). I'm not saying she should be doing one thing or another, but she herself claims that what she is doing is "important" for the Elves, and throws away a decade of her life (granted, Dalish elves live longer than people, even in modern Thedas, IIRC, but still) for something that she doesn't even know what it is or does. Even if she's doing it to help "restore history"...she's not actually doing that. She's just repairing an antiquated device, which, for all anyone knows, might be a weapon (after all, it killed Tamlen, and possible Mahariel, as far as she knows). Even if it's not (and granted, it isn't, but that's beside the point), there's nothing really to be learned from that device.

Imagine it's the year 7931, our civilization has long since nuked itself into oblivion and in the society that comes after, a future-archaeologist comes upon the charred bits of a Super Nintendo...with a bomb strapped to it. Said future archaeologist figures out the bomb part and takes it aside, and dedicates 10 years of her life and estranges everyone who's ever cared about her so she can work on restoring a Super Nintendo, so as to demonstrate all that future-humanity can learn from our present civilization. And here's hoping she also found a broken-down TV and copy of A Link to the Past, or something. And that's more or less how Merrill looks.

[Contraire]

The factor here is that Merrill has lost sight of the forest for the trees (an elf-appropriate analogy, even!). I'm not saying she should be doing one thing or another, but she herself claims that what she is doing is "important" for the Elves, and throws away a decade of her life (granted, Dalish elves live longer than people, even in modern Thedas, IIRC, but still) for something that she doesn't even know what it is or does. Even if she's doing it to help "restore history"...she's not actually doing that. She's just repairing an antiquated device, which, for all anyone knows, might be a weapon (after all, it killed Tamlen, and possible Mahariel, as far as she knows). Even if it's not (and granted, it isn't, but that's beside the point), there's nothing really to be learned from that device.

Imagine it's the year 7931, our civilization has long since nuked itself into oblivion and in the society that comes after, a future-archaeologist comes upon the charred bits of a Super Nintendo...with a bomb strapped to it. Said future archaeologist figures out the bomb part and takes it aside, and dedicates 10 years of her life and estranges everyone who's ever cared about her so she can work on restoring a Super Nintendo, so as to demonstrate all that future-humanity can learn from our present civilization. And here's hoping she also found a broken-down TV and copy of A Link to the Past, or something. And that's more or less how Merrill looks.

I read your analogy and am still trying very hard to imagine why spending 10 years of one's life to repair and figure out a gaming console, a gun, or a washing machine would be bad or pointless. It wouldn’t give anywhere near a complete picture of early XIXth century society, but it’d be a step in one direction. Is Merrill supposed to wait to study the artefact she’s found until she’s gathered half a dozen more? Provided what your hypothetical 7931 archeologist knows of pre-XIXthe century and post-XXth century technology, it could even give a good idea of technological, economical and societal developments (technology becoming both more numerous and more common, early XXIth century West relying heavily on technology, to an extent that was unimaginable 200 mere years ago; house appliances filling roles and tasks that were previously filled by people). And if they don’t, then every little bit helps. Each discovery then leads to a series of questions: your Super Nintendo needs electricity to work. Is it meant for private homes, or was it a form of public entertainment? How common would electricity have been? How was it produced? Does your Super Nintendo still wears a “Made in XXX” stamp? If it does, and your archeologist has notions of XXth century geography, realizing there were commercial exchanges between China and Germany could be very exciting, and again, lead to a wealth of potential research. You’re writing as though a discovery begins and ends with itself, which is patently untrue.

 

Not to mention that you’re assuming Merrill’s studying a SNES. She could be studying the Rosette Stone for all anyone knows.

 

You’re writing as though merely because the research might not be world-changing, it’s better to try researching it at all.

Merrill has found an antique device that no-one is willing to study but herself, so that’s what she does. Why it would be smarter or wiser to refuse to study it I don’t see. (She does get unhealthily obsessed with it, but that doesn’t invalidate her goal, and her clan throwing her out can’t have helped her view that she would Show Them All.)

[obbie31]

She was warned by the Keeper several times that she is going to unleash something evil that will cause death and destruction. But she's willing to do it anyway. Merrill may seem nice and has good intentions, but I think she is selfish and a tad crazy as well. I also didn't like how if you stick up for Merill in her quest against her clan and you wipe them out you get friendship points. But if you prevent conflict you get rivalry. I know what they are going for since you technically didn't side with Merrill on that. But the fact that she indirectly caused them all to die for her ambitions makes it harder to like her.

 

And I'm also really salty. I was doing a run where I planned to romance her and only her. The romance glitched and I didn't get the romance scene with her. I officially am not cool with Merrill now. 

[Iakus]

She was warned by the Keeper several times that she is going to unleash something evil that will cause death and destruction. But she's willing to do it anyway. Merrill may seem nice and has good intentions, but I think she is selfish and a tad crazy as well. I also didn't like how if you stick up for Merill in her quest against her clan and you wipe them out you get friendship points. But if you prevent conflict you get rivalry. I know what they are going for since you technically didn't side with Merrill on that. But the fact that she indirectly caused them all to die for her ambitions makes it harder to like her.

 

And I'm also really salty. I was doing a run where I planned to romance her and only her. The romance glitched and I didn't get the romance scene with her. I officially am not cool with Merrill now. 

I don't think she's selfish so much as overconfident.  She's convinced she can handle the blood magic and knows how to protect herself against the demon. I'm sure it's no coincidence that the demon she deals with is a PRIDE demon named Audacity.

 

And the reason you get friendship points in those two cases is because you are trying to absolve her of blame for Marethari's death.  The one you get rivalry for (and the one where the clan survives) you are agreeing she's to blame and offer to remove her from the clan yourself.

[straykat]

I only wish there was post dialogue if you're not full rival or friend. The Eluvian remains, you don't make a decision either way, and "questioning beliefs" just floats in your quest log.. unable to trigger anything.

 

I think Merrill needs to learn a personal lesson about what Merathari did for her and about the ills of blood magic. But I don't care to control every aspect of the Eluvian. I feel like too much of a Qunari if I try to shape her worldview. These Merrill quests come at the same time that the Crazed Elf is mad about the very thing. I think the elven past matters somewhat. I'm just not a big fan of blood magic. Especially in this game.

[possumpanda]

She was warned by the Keeper several times that she is going to unleash something evil that will cause death and destruction. But she's willing to do it anyway. Merrill may seem nice and has good intentions, but I think she is selfish and a tad crazy as well. I also didn't like how if you stick up for Merill in her quest against her clan and you wipe them out you get friendship points. But if you prevent conflict you get rivalry. I know what they are going for since you technically didn't side with Merrill on that. But the fact that she indirectly caused them all to die for her ambitions makes it harder to like her.

The situation with Merrill's approval when dealing with her clan is more simple than you think, you gain these points based in if you side with her or not, if you pick Merrill's side, you gain friendship, if not, you get rivalry. The fact that the stance you pick can kill them is a consequence, one that she would never foresee.

This situation also shows one her biggest flaws, her failling to realize the consequence of her actions, shes so absorved in fixing the eluvian that she disregards her own safety and what could happen to other people if something goes wrong. I'm not against her to study it, and i dont think that she should stop studying an ancient elven artifact just because it could be dangerous, the problem is that she takes stupid risks because she thinks will be worth it when thats hardly the case.

I like her recklessness, it makes her more interesting, hopefully we see her in a future game.

[renfrees]

Her final QB dialogue on Friendship path, when she blames the clan for their demise instead of being remorseful, doesn't sit well with me. So yeah, I always rival her - she doesn't learn responsibility any other way.

[Illegitimus]

The reason why Merril hasn't done it is that the need was small. When the demand is greater, there is only one way blood magic can offer more power.

That's the way it works. There aren't two separate schools of blood magic. Any appearance of moral use never comes from "doing it the good way" but not delving beyond the basics.

As for the involvement of demons, if you want an explanation based on lore you might ask the writers. But it still true that Bethany sensed it when Merril did something as simple as cutting her wrist and breaking a magical barrier.

 

 I'm betting what Bethany sensed was not the blood magic itself or anything directly summoned by it, but the demon on the other side of the barrier.  The barriers are there to keep the demon in, right?  So drop one of the barriers temporarily, and you can sense the emanations of the demon more clearly if you are in fact sensitive to such things.   

 

 

The factor here is that Merrill has lost sight of the forest for the trees (an elf-appropriate analogy, even!). I'm not saying she should be doing one thing or another, but she herself claims that what she is doing is "important" for the Elves, and throws away a decade of her life (granted, Dalish elves live longer than people, even in modern Thedas, IIRC, but still) for something that she doesn't even know what it is or does. Even if she's doing it to help "restore history"...she's not actually doing that. She's just repairing an antiquated device, which, for all anyone knows, might be a weapon (after all, it killed Tamlen, and possible Mahariel, as far as she knows). Even if it's not (and granted, it isn't, but that's beside the point), there's nothing really to be learned from that device.

Imagine it's the year 7931, our civilization has long since nuked itself into oblivion and in the society that comes after, a future-archaeologist comes upon the charred bits of a Super Nintendo...with a bomb strapped to it. Said future archaeologist figures out the bomb part and takes it aside, and dedicates 10 years of her life and estranges everyone who's ever cared about her so she can work on restoring a Super Nintendo, so as to demonstrate all that future-humanity can learn from our present civilization. And here's hoping she also found a broken-down TV and copy of A Link to the Past, or something. And that's more or less how Merrill looks.

 

That is exactly the kind of thing archaeologists do, and it strikes me as a perfectly useful application of their lives apart from the use of methods toward that goal that will turn her into a social outcasts.  I mean I wouldn't approve of embezzling funds to fulfill such a project or something.  And I can see why reconstructing an eluvian and getting it to work would be a worthwhile thing for Dalish.  What could be better for a nomadic culture than gaining the ability to effectively teleport the whole clan across the continent?  Particularly since they were nearly stranded by their lack of halla which meant they'd have to abandon just about all their possessions in order to move again.  

[straykat]

Her final QB dialogue on Friendship path, when she blames the clan for their demise instead of being remorseful, doesn't sit well with me. So yeah, I always rival her - she doesn't learn responsibility any other way.

 

I guess the good thing about that is she learns responsibility, but they're gonna tell the Eluvian story elsewhere. It's not like we, the players ourselves, remain in the dark.

 

And either way, it appears she decides to help the city elves, and deals with what's right in front of her..which she only used to do on the rivalry path. Varric in DAI said that's what she does either way now.

[SgtSteel91]

I guess the good thing about that is she learns responsibility, but they're gonna tell the Eluvian story elsewhere. It's not like we, the players ourselves, remain in the dark.

 

And either way, it appears she decides to help the city elves, and deals with what's right in front of her..which she only used to do on the rivalry path. Varric in DAI said that's what she does either way now.

 

You can suggest to her to help the City Elves in the friendship path, too.

[straykat]

You can suggest to her to help the City Elves in the friendship path, too.

 

Oh can you? That's cool.

 

Maybe that's why they went with this in DAI. It's neutral.

[ThePhoenixKing]

Oh can you? That's cool.

 

Maybe that's why they went with this in DAI. It's neutral.

 

It also seems like the kind of thing Merrill might be keen to do anyways; she certainly doesn't have the hostility towards the city elves that a lot of other Dalish have.

[Qun00]

I'm betting what Bethany sensed was not the blood magic itself or anything directly summoned by it, but the demon on the other side of the barrier.  The barriers are there to keep the demon in, right?  So drop one of the barriers temporarily, and you can sense the emanations of the demon more clearly if you are in fact sensitive to such things.   

Nah. Avernus says it with all the words: "Blood magic comes from demons. They could counter every bit of lore I know. But the Taint is alien to them".

[Idun]

On my first run I was like "um no, that mirror is bad news" and she kept whining about her culture.

 

Her "culture" always seemed like a bunch of historical reenactors living in the woods and playing pretend with not nearly enough research. Then it turned out they really don't know ****.

[Cribbian]

I support her in whatever project she's working on but then I'm a Merrillsexual.

[Qun00]

Fenris is right when he says that mages always find a way to justify their need for power.

Merrill has already justified her blood magic and demon consorting with "I had no other options".

Maybe one day she will have need for greater magical power in order to accomplish something and say "I performed a blood sacrifice because I had no choice".

[Xilizhra]

Fenris is right when he says that mages always find a way to justify their need for power.

Merrill has already justified her blood magic and demon consorting with "I had no other options".

Maybe one day she will have need for greater magical power in order to accomplish something and say "I performed a blood sacrifice because I had no choice".

I bet my life that she won't.

[Catilina]

Fenris is right when he says that mages always find a way to justify their need for power.

Merrill has already justified her blood magic and demon consorting with "I had no other options".

Maybe one day she will have need for greater magical power in order to accomplish something and say "I performed a blood sacrifice because I had no choice".

My Hawke was just wondering what was going to happen. And was confident to overcome the danger. And if other way he can not, well, with blood magic and Fenris' (and Anders') help ...

[kimgoold]

I never supported Merrill using Blood Magic, and I've never killed my Dalish HoF's clan.

 

Prior to DAI Trespasser I always convinced Merrill to destroy Mirror; but now I'm more interested in where her Eluvian goes; Several people have made a very interesting point I hadn't considered before - if Merrill used the shard of the tainted mirror from DAO and it was connected to an unknown dark city with something dark and powerful in there, could this be a possible escape route for the trapped Evanuris? 

I'm now more convinced than ever that the Black City in the Fade is where the Evanuris are entombed in the ruins of Arlathan. 

 

And I only support blood magic under very controlled and restricted conditions .ie; making Grey Wardens, and as a possible cure for the Taint or the Calling.