135 réponses à ce sujet

[Catilina]

I never supported Merrill using Blood Magic, and I've never killed my Dalish HoF's clan.

 

Prior to DAI Trespasser I always convinced Merrill to destroy Mirror; but now I'm more interested in where her Eluvian goes; Several people have made a very interesting point I hadn't considered before - if Merrill used the shard of the tainted mirror from DAO and it was connected to an unknown dark city with something dark and powerful in there, could this be a possible escape route for the trapped Evanuris? 

I'm now more convinced than ever that the Black City in the Fade is where the Evanuris are entombed in the ruins of Arlathan. 

 

And I only support blood magic under very controlled and restricted conditions .ie; making Grey Wardens, and as a possible cure for the Taint or the Calling.

That controlled, as we saw in the Adamant Fortress? Or as Janeka used in the Vimmark Mountains? 

[kimgoold]

I don't consider Clarel or Janeka as the sharpest tools in the Grey Warden shed no. My HoF (who isn't a blood mage) is the only GW mage I would trust to oversee ethical Blood Magic research honestly. As the GW in DAI seemed to suffering from Dumb-as-Dirt-itis.

[Catilina]

I don't consider Clarel or Janeka as the sharpest tools in the Grey Warden shed no. My HoF (who isn't a blood mage) is the only GW mage I would trust to oversee ethical Blood Magic research honestly. As the GW in DAI seemed to suffering from Dumb-as-Dirt-itis.

Your Warden can control the blood magic, but Merrill (and another mages) maybe can't? Hehe, I like it! Just as my blood mage Hawke(s)!

[kimgoold]

Your Warden can control the blood magic, but Merrill (and another mages) maybe can't? Hehe, I like it! Just as my blood mage Hawke(s)!

 

Well to be fair my HoF wouldn't be using Blood Magic him/herself but overseeing a Blood Mage with a bevy of Templar trained GW Warriors.

[Catilina]

Well to be fair my HoF wouldn't be using Blood Magic him/herself but overseeing a Blood Mage with a bevy of Templar trained GW Warriors.

So s/he did not use it, but he ask someone else for use it...

[kimgoold]

So s/he did not use it, but he ask someone else for use it?

 

If it was vital to curing the Taint or the Calling they would have a GW Blood Mage do the research but under intense scrutiny. The Wardens allow Blood Mages even encourages them so there are Blood Mages already in the GW, but my Mage HoF is very anti-blood magic so would only allow it to be used it under these circumstances.

[Catilina]

If it was vital to curing the Taint or the Calling they would have a GW Blood Mage do the research but under intense scrutiny. The Wardens allow Blood Mages even encourages them so there are Blood Mages already in the GW, but my Mage HoF is very anti-blood magic so would only allow it to be used it under these circumstances.

Then s/he not SO very anti-blood magic.

 

This control means that if the mages, who risk to using blood magic for the Order, fails, they will killed. And your warden's hands still clean from this filthy blood magic.

[kimgoold]

Then s/he not SO very anti-blood magic.

 

This control means that if the mages, who risk to using blood magic for the Order, fails, they will killed. And your warden's hands still clean from this filthy blood magic.

 

I get that, but they are still a warden so the needs of the many and the greater good would have bearing on their decision. If it meant curing the Taint possibly curing all those innocents in blights that get blight sickness then yes they would. If it also meant that wardens didn't have to die from the Taint then again yes. And no I don't consider the HoF innocent or their hands bloodless if GW Mages die or are killed in doing this research. But GW sacrifice themselves to save the innocent during blights and I consider this no different.

[Catilina]

I get that, but they are still a warden so the needs of the many and the greater good would have bearing on their decision. If it meant curing the Taint possibly curing all those innocents in blights that get blight sickness then yes they would. If it also meant that wardens didn't have to die from the Taint then again yes. And no I don't consider the HoF innocent or their hands bloodless if GW Mages die or are killed in doing this research. But GW sacrifice themselves to save the innocent during blights and I consider this no different.

Correct.

[R0bE0]

Not really.

 

I disagree with Merrill on a lot of things - primarily on the topic of magic/mages. That being said the Eluvians are actually a pretty crucial part of elven history and lore and I do respect her choice to try and put the pieces (no pun intended) back together.

 

It really depends on how I look at it. She petitioned a demon to help her out, something that I find hard to condone. But on the flip side, it did help her, and brought her closer (and even potentially) to her goal. Sometimes people have to go to extremes to figure things out, and asking a demon to help is definitely an extreme. But I think the question I have to ask myself is: do I really care enough to justify her means?

In which case, no I don't. She might care, but I don't.

 

I can understand why she did it, and if I cared more about the elven side of DA then yeah, I would probably approve of her decision. At the end of it all I do understand her reasoning, and can respect it. But I can't approve.

 

What I find funny though is her destroying the eluvian on a rivalry path. Like damn, you already paid the price, the mirror is done. And you're just going to break it? For some dramatic effect? By that point the damage is done and she should have just kept it.

 

I always found that foolish.

[Qun00]

****, I almost forgot. Commiting to the friendship path does lead to killing the Dalish Warden's clan, doesn't it?

Hell no.

[Catilina]

****, I almost forgot. Commiting to the friendship path does lead to killing the Dalish Warden's clan, doesn't it?

Hell no.

Avoidable.

[Qun00]

With rivalry points.

[ThomasBlaine]

I always discourage her. Hawke has no particular reason to be interested in the preservation of elven artifacts, Merril isn't shy about those two elves who were poisoned by the mirror and having it in the tiny apartment in the packed Alienage is just begging for trouble, and her fixation on it has obviously already inspired her to use blood magic and make deals with demons, both things that Hawke's mage father and only real influence on the issue staunchly preached against and which got her exiled from her clan and natural environment.

 

From Hawke's perspective, I can't see the Eluvian as anything but a dangerous and disastrous venture that has already cost Merril everything, very nearly including her own sanity. Arguing against pursuing it and refusing to assist is the least a responsible Hawke would do, and I think there should have been an option to try and forcibly separate her from the mirror for those who REALLY cared about her.

[Catilina]

With rivalry points.

And? It's really a problem?

[Xilizhra]

With rivalry points.

It's act 3. If you haven't already maxed out her friendship by then, you're doing it wrong.

[Vit246]

I always discourage her. Hawke has no particular reason to be interested in the preservation of elven artifacts, Merril isn't shy about those two elves who were poisoned by the mirror and having it in the tiny apartment in the packed Alienage is just begging for trouble, and her fixation on it has obviously already inspired her to use blood magic and make deals with demons, both things that Hawke's mage father and only real influence on the issue staunchly preached against and which got her exiled from her clan and natural environment.

 

From Hawke's perspective, I can't see the Eluvian as anything but a dangerous and disastrous venture that has already cost Merril everything, very nearly including her own sanity. Arguing against pursuing it and refusing to assist is the least a responsible Hawke would do, and I think there should have been an option to try and forcibly separate her from the mirror for those who REALLY cared about her.

 

Hawke is a shemlen who knows far less than Merrill about elven artifacts. Who is he to lecture her? Merrill cleansed the Mirror of the Taint and it didn't do shite in that tiny apartment for 7 years. She's never used blood magic unethically. And we don't even know the full context of the deal she made with Audacity. Maybe she tricked a freebie out of it like the Hero of Ferelden with the Redcliffe Demon. Since nothing happened for 7 years.

God forbid the possibility that Merrill might actually know what she's doing.

 

The Eluvian itself has never done anything or costed her. It was always Marethari who poisoned the clan's minds about Merrill.

[Qun00]

Maybe she tricked a freebie out of it like the Hero of Ferelden with the Redcliffe Demon.

Pure speculation.

And you know... when you're a total ass about what you're doing, you don't deserve to succeed.

Spoiler

Aveline: This mirror of yours — what does it do?

Merrill: Mostly it stands in my house, looking a bit spooky.

Aveline: But its magic, right? So it can do... Magic things? Is it dangerous?

Merrill: It could fall on someone, but you'd have to push it really hard. It's quite heavy.

Aveline: Merrill, is it a danger to the people of Kirkwall or not?

Merrill: Oh! Only to anyone sitting right under it.

Aveline wasn't accusing Merrill of anything. You see, unlike those in the Dalish clan, she actually asks instead of stating it.

And yet, Merrill responds by mocking her with sarcasm.

[Xilizhra]

Pure speculation.

And you know... when you're a total ass about what you're doing, you don't deserve to succeed.

Spoiler

Aveline: This mirror of yours — what does it do?

Merrill: Mostly it stands in my house, looking a bit spooky.

Aveline: But its magic, right? So it can do... Magic things? Is it dangerous?

Merrill: It could fall on someone, but you'd have to push it really hard. It's quite heavy.

Aveline: Merrill, is it a danger to the people of Kirkwall or not?

Merrill: Oh! Only to anyone sitting right under it.

Aveline wasn't accusing Merrill of anything. You see, unlike those in the Dalish clan, she actually asks instead of stating it.

And yet, Merrill responds by mocking her with sarcasm.

Wait, you thought that was sarcasm? Why?

[Catilina]

Pure speculation.

And you know... when you're a total ass about what you're doing, you don't deserve to succeed.

Spoiler

Aveline: This mirror of yours — what does it do?

Merrill: Mostly it stands in my house, looking a bit spooky.

Aveline: But its magic, right? So it can do... Magic things? Is it dangerous?

Merrill: It could fall on someone, but you'd have to push it really hard. It's quite heavy.

Aveline: Merrill, is it a danger to the people of Kirkwall or not?

Merrill: Oh! Only to anyone sitting right under it.

Aveline wasn't accusing Merrill of anything. You see, unlike those in the Dalish clan, she actually asks instead of stating it.

And yet, Merrill responds by mocking her with sarcasm.

At least take care of the house, as long as Merrill is not at home. And do not even need to feed. 

[sniper_arrow]

Wait, you thought that was sarcasm? Why?

 

The way she responded seemed sarcastic to me. More of it, she used it as a defense mechanism because she's tired of the fact that not everyone is convinced her Eluvian is safe.

[Xilizhra]

The way she responded seemed sarcastic to me. More of it, she used it as a defense mechanism because she's tired of the fact that not everyone is convinced her Eluvian is safe.

I'm pretty darned sure that she was being sincere. It's generally obvious when she's sarcastic.

[ThomasBlaine]

Hawke is a shemlen who knows far less than Merrill about elven artifacts. Who is he to lecture her? Merrill cleansed the Mirror of the Taint and it didn't do shite in that tiny apartment for 7 years. She's never used blood magic unethically. And we don't even know the full context of the deal she made with Audacity. Maybe she tricked a freebie out of it like the Hero of Ferelden with the Redcliffe Demon. Since nothing happened for 7 years.

God forbid the possibility that Merrill might actually know what she's doing.

 

The Eluvian itself has never done anything or costed her. It was always Marethari who poisoned the clan's minds about Merrill.

 

That's all well and good, but Hawke doesn't come from a background that actually justifies an open-minded view of demons or blood magic, and s/he has no way of knowing that the mirror won't hurt anyone for years - and then only because Merril never has company, further isolating her and feeding her neurosis.

 

S/he can plainly see Merril destroying her life over the mirror, and a good friend or just about any cautious and responsible adult would disapprove of that more than they'd approve of the preservation of a culture they don't know or care about. My Hawke is neither particularly cautious or responsible, but she still thinks Merril's obsession is stupid and dangerous both to herself and others, and definitely not worth the hassle.

[Qun00]

Wait, you thought that was sarcasm? Why?

Believe it or not, Merrill is capable of sarcasm. Being shy doesn't imply purity.

Aveline asked the question three times and Merrill kept trolling her with jokes.

Even if you think she is actually that slow, it would be impossible not to understand in the third time, when it was literally spelled out for her.

At least take care of the house, as long as Merrill is not at home. And do not even need to feed.

Yup, that's pretty spot on. Good to see that someone understands her brand of sarcasm.

[Xilizhra]

Believe it or not, Merrill is capable of sarcasm. Being shy doesn't imply purity.

Aveline asked the question three times and Merrill kept trolling her with jokes.

Even if you think she is actually that slow, it would be impossible not to understand in the third time, when it was literally spelled out for her.

I think she was being completely sincere: it's only a danger to people standing right under it. It will not pose any threat to Kirkwall. I think the only issue there was that Merrill was somewhat embarrassed over not knowing exactly what it did, but that thing is not "release a horde of darkspawn" or what have you.