15 réponses à ce sujet

[Shemsu-Heru]

Hi,
I, recently, have discovered a free program, "3D Ripper DX":

http://www.deep-shad.../3DRipperDX.htm

Which allows to rip models and textures from any video game which uses DirectX 6-9. I have tested it in several video games, and it haven't worked with all of them. Also when it works the models always have some deformations. However it's nothing that can't be fixed which some 3d skills.

 

Despite of the possibilities of this application; It's makes me wonder, how rightfull (in lawful terms and moral) would be to rip a model from a video game an use it in a free MOD?.

Especially, considering that like I would be mainly interesting in use the ripped models, for making NWN MODs. I would be focused in "old" games, whose models could work well in NWN. And those games have few on none commercial exploitation, now a days.

I would appreciate any orientation in this matter, Thanks...

[MerricksDad]

I think american corporations are bound by american laws, which supersede the EULA which only binds people who actually agreed to those terms. If you bought it and agreed to the EULA, then you are bound by those, to an extent.

 

The american laws basically state that if they claim it as intellectual property, then you can't use it as is. Once you change its format, or some great detail about it, then it is no longer theirs. If you use it exactly as is, and make other works which call on it, then that is considered derivative work, in which case you need permission.

 

In terms of personal mods, it is best to not ask, and just do. Simply hide the fact that you know who made the mod and who ripped the data. Further add confusion by modifying the extract in a largely meaningful way.

 

Basically, don't use it as is. Make it your own, and ignore that you didn't make it.

[MerricksDad]

In legal terms: Plausible deniability, or the very good act of such.

 

In moral terms, it depends on your own personal interpretation. If you are collecting it from the buffers on your video card, or as it passes through YOUR computer, just like with any information on the internet, then it belongs to the computer memory, and therefore the owner of that memory. You.

 

You can also look at it from this perspective: what is its value. Is it something that is saving you a lot of time, or a little bit of time. Is the quality of the object something you would feel bad if another got a hold of? Are you losing any money because of it? If you would feel sorry if you hurt another person over it, then don't do it. If you feel you have no reason to believe an individual would be hurt, any individual from a larger company, etc, then what is the harm, except if they come after you over greed?

 

Do you feel like you are robbing somebody at gunpoint? Or maybe just sneaking into their house? Or are you just making a modification to the wheel, which we all know nobody has a patent on of any meaningful value.

[SomethingSpicy]

I think american corporations are bound by american laws, which supersede the EULA which only binds people who actually agreed to those terms. If you bought it and agreed to the EULA, then you are bound by those, to an extent.

 

The american laws basically state that if they claim it as intellectual property, then you can't use it as is. Once you change its format, or some great detail about it, then it is no longer theirs. If you use it exactly as is, and make other works which call on it, then that is considered derivative work, in which case you need permission.

 

In terms of personal mods, it is best to not ask, and just do. Simply hide the fact that you know who made the mod and who ripped the data. Further add confusion by modifying the extract in a largely meaningful way.

 

Basically, don't use it as is. Make it your own, and ignore that you didn't make it.

Interesting, but let's say I wanted to use sound effects or music found elsewhere, would simply changing the file format (.mp3 to a .flac or .wav, and so on..) have the same effect? What if you wanted to make a video trailer for your mod, and you wanted to use these sounds/songs in it, how would you go about it?

[MerricksDad]

I might use sound effects, but I wouldn't use ripped music in a release. In the music business, you can sample to a degree, but full rip of any music and the various guilds WILL call you on it. Each time you deny it, they will increase the value they claim you owe them.

 

The music industry is a bunch of a-holes. They will sue you for intent to better yourself through making non-profit copies, or even to increase your standing with others by giving them freebies. They will destroy you.

 

They'll even follow you for years if you play a radio in a cafe without paying a license fee, under the claims that at least one time during the year you used the playing of any one specific song that came over the radio to make a profit. And they'll try to deal with you before you get a lawyer. As soon as you get a lawyer, they'll increase the fee.

[Tchos]

The answer is no, it is not legal unless the original owners gave permission.  It's none of my business if you're going to justify doing it anyway to make yourself feel better, but you asked if it is legal, and it is not.

 

SomethingSpicy: No, changing a file format is not transformative enough to remove a sound's copyright.  You should look up transformative use in copyright if you want to know how much it needs to change.

[Mecheon]

The only game devs who have given permission for their stuff to be ported to other games are the Witcher guys, as far as I know.

 

So if you want to port anything from Witcher, go nuts as long as you're not selling it.

[Fester Pot]

The folks over at Nordic Games (GmbH) gave permission for the Empire Earth placeables by Randomdays. The Vault had to put up a permission license after the company found out the content was ripped to NWN and created an account on the site to give fair warning.

Witcher folks are cool too, but again, permission license included for use.

Although there are haks / tilesets that contain Dungeon Siege placeables on the Vault, the compilation DS pack was removed from the old vault. I don't know if it was because Gas Powered Games went after the content, or the fan base of DS spewed forth from their corner of the web to complain.

In the end, NWN is still the better game , just remember to be fair and give credit where it's due.

I've found approaching indie ambient music producers via YouTube, asking for their permission to use a track, talking about your module and that it's non-profit, can turn into a win-win on both sides. It's also a lot safer than ripping a full album of a popular soundtrack and making it available for download on the vault so folks can play your mod.

FP!
 

[SomethingSpicy]

.. the compilation DS pack was removed from the old vault. I don't know if it was because Gas Powered Games went after the content..
 

Doubtful, GPG no longer owns Dungeon Siege, they sold it to Square Enix who then made DS 3, and Square can be pretty uptight when comes to things they own. As far as I remember, GPG didn't really care what you did with their content. Neither does Blizzard, for the most part.

 

Don't touch anything by Nintendo though, lol.

[Proleric]

These days, there might be a de facto difference between music (see this comment) and other works.

When it comes to models or artwork, the safe approach is to request permission, or use open sources such as Wikimedia.

[OldTimeRadio]

Generally, to anyone converting models:  Please be responsible and make sure your verts and tverts are welded, that you have a low poly shadow mesh or turn shadowing off entirely and, depending, that you compile your model.  Stuff like that.  It's often (if not entirely) the case that models which come in from some other source need to be optimized for use in NWN or they can make the game very laggy or even cause crashes.

 

Shemsu-Heru, if you or anyone else is on the fence about porting models, maybe this will help allay concerns.  In 2006, a mod for Half-Life 2 called Garry's Mod was created and released.  It allowed people to create enormous sandbox worlds using the game's engine.  Almost immediately, people began porting models from other games to use in it.  This has been going on for eight years now.  It was (and still is) wildly popular.  In fact, it's so popular it's usually in the top 10 most-played games on Steam for a given day.  And those same ported models (player models, placeables, levels, etc.) can be found for download, even on the Steam Workshop page for the mod.  Including models ported from Blizzard, Bethesda, Bioware... and many other well-known games and franchises.

 

In light of this reality, I find it highly implausible that anyone who has the legal right to complain about content being ported to NWN would actually do so.

[Shemsu-Heru]

Thanks for all of your answers; So basically I should have permission, from the company owner of the copyright, in other to do that....

 

There are websites of free 3d models which have plenty of ripped models, which also specified from what game they come. So I assume that those guys have made some kind of agreement with the owner companies.

[MerricksDad]

StormThrone uses models specifically from WoW and TL2. They haven't been called on either, even though each entity knows about the use for profit. This makes me think that either it isn't important enough to care about, or that possibly the individual models have rights we don't know about which are specific to individuals, not the corporation as a whole. We could only ever speculate on that without a document specifically stating the agreements between each party.

 

I think the conclusion you came to is probably the best one, just because we don't know everything, and for purposes of NWN use, it probably isn't worth doing the digging. That being said, there is nothing against using non-human likeness created from scratch. "It looks like Godzilla, but due to international copyright laws, it isn't."

[Tchos]

The latter topics of note have been discussed well elsewhere.  I've also seen mentioned on the Steam forum some Garry's mod ripped models that had been available were taken down, so it's not like they're immune just because so many people are doing it.

 

Armed Unity

Bohemia Interactive

[MerricksDad]

White this topic is still floating topward, I would like to mention that if somebody has the time and energy, I would give at least half of the objects shown below to be able to have the dinosaurs from the game "Dino Storm", or similar games.

 

[Jedijax]

I don't know what the big deal is here. There's plenty of 3d models ripped form other games in NWN and NOT A SINGLE SUE. No one is profiting from this and unless some subhuman goes running to the original developers to raise hell, it is very unlikely it would cause any trouble at all.

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